BPCR rifles, so many choices.

[DangerousDrummer]

Ok I am afraid I caught the bug. I enjoy shooting the SOCOM so much that I started looking at some of the other rifles and some history. Then I happened to be at the shooting club one Saturday while they were having a BPCR steel sillouhette competition and I guess that set the hook. I started looking at different guns only to find that they are rather pricey so I am saving up, but for which rifle? Double set triggers vs single set, 45-90 vs 45-70 or 120, Sharps vs rolling block, hex barrel vs round, 34 in vs 32 in, geeze!

I tried to join the BPCR forum twice but never got a login, so I thought maybe some of you guys have some experience in this. So here are some of my thoughts after a bunch of research and study. Having never shot any of these, here is where I am heading.

1. Sharps vs rolling block. I shoot rifle left hand (left eye dominant) so I think the rolling block would be easier for me manipulate than a sharps with it's right side hammer.

2. Caliber, if there is no place to shoot beyond 500-600 yds a 45-70 sounds like it would do the job without destroying my shoulder, but we have 1000 yds available at the Pascagoula Shooting Club which is rare on the gulf coast, so for 1000 yds it looks like 45-90 is required.

3. Barrel length, I read that the increments on the diopter sights are set up for a 34 inch barrel, but it seems that most of the 34 in 45-90s exceed the NRA wieght limit of 12lb 2oz. I have found a super match Pedersoli 45-90, 34 in barrel but it has what appears to be a standard trigger which brings up the most contentious part of these rifles.

4. Trigger. Double set or single set, or regular. For competition, the trigger seems to be the second most important thing after the sights. There seems to be a lot of disagreement on triggers but maybe like most things it is what one becomes used to. At the price of these rifles, I certainly want to get this right. It seems that more go for double set and I have read only one article that was negative about them, citing advance vibrations that can throw off your aim but that seems rather voodoo when you think about the weight of the BPCRs. The double set trigger, rolling block John Bodine with a 34 in barrel in 45-90 sounds perfect, except that it weighs about 6oz too much for NRA competition. I wonder if I could mill 6oz out of the stock from the butt to get it within specs?

5. Sights. By far most important but you get what you pay for! I plan to get a starter mid range set and upgrade after I am hopefully as good as my sights. I imagine starting out, sights will be the least of my weaknesses. Offhand shooting a stage with a 12 lb rifle sounds like the first challange.

Help me out so I know which rifle I am saving up to buy.

[gmsharps]

There are several folks here that will probably put their 2 cents worth in.
1. I also shoot lefthanded and use a Shiloh Sharps with no ill effect. I also shoot semi's left handed and have never felt disadvantaged either. I have heard okay things about the Italian sharps but look at the BPCR standings at Raton and see what the winners are shooting and the italians are not running in the top much. A Shiloh is not that much more than the Italians and your return when and if you have to get rid of it is much more. They also just do not seem to break and in the rare event that there is an issue the customer service at Shiloh is great. I would go with a 45-70 or a 40-65 with a 30 in barrel. When you start shooting the 200 meter off hand target anything much longer than 30 inch will wear on you pretty quick. The 45-70 does just fine at 1000 yd also. The 40-65 shoots great and is less punishing over the course of the day but 1000yds is a bit much. Most of your shooting is going to be at a max of 600yd and once you start shooting you will probably acquire a second rifle and you can get the big boy if that is really what you want. Double set triggers to me is the only way to go. As far as sights get the long range now. Thats why you can adjust it to shoot at the range you are shooting. Sights aren't cheap. There are several goods ones like the MVA soule that work very well. Get a mold to suit the caliber. There are a lot of great mold makers to get the quality you need. Anotehr option is the CPA which is a c opy of the Stevens 44 1/2 action. You can get different caliber barrels that you can swap out in just a few minutes. Get a 22lr for the short game and a 45-70 and a 45-90 for the rest. This is just a rough idea of a few things and I'm sure some of he other guys will get to more specifics.

gmsharps

[rbertalotto]

What GMSHARPS said plus 1.

All great advice. A Pedersoli Sharps in 45-70 with set triggers will run you around $1000 on the used market. A good place to start. Ron Snover's tang sights and a Lyman front site will get you into the game. You WILL need to cast your own bullets and a Lyman Postell or other 500g mold will be required.

And then LOTS of practice!

Enjoy

[Silver Jack Hammer]

I just got mine, I choose American rather that Italian, mainly because I believe if anything goes wrong with it the American will be easier to fix. I wanted the 1874 Sharps and went to Big Timber, MT. Although I prefer forged receivers over cast the Shiloh Rifle Co. product just looked superior to the C. Sharps in fit and finish. Lucinda first had be shoulder two different display models off the wall, I favored one over the other, she said OK, you don't want the cheek piece on the shoulder stock, so we started with their "Montana Roughrider" model.

Being just starting out I was told by several sources to start with a .45-70. The .45-90 and .45-110 will only give me less than 200 fps increase for every step up, and that with an extra 20 gr of powder for every step up. With each additional 20 gr of powder comes the extra soot and recoil, for not much additional velocity. Plus for a beginning shooter the .45-70 has all the work done on it by previous researchers and loaders so the data for loads and boolits are already done. It's easier cartridge to work with.

Then sights, Lucinda talked to me about what I wanted to do with the rifle and she recommended the long range Soule. The spirit level in the front is real important because the .45-70 has such an arc in it's trajectory you want to make sure your rifle isn't tilted when you shoot. I got a globe front sight with interchangeable inserts.

I had to have a pistol grip and checkering. She recommended upgrading the wood one category, my wife and brother also recommended the same. I had to have an extra inch in length of pull because I'm 6'4".

Then Lucinda asked me if I'm going to primarily shoot competition or hunt with it. I told her compete and she recommended the heavy barrel because it helps with recoil when shooting 100 rounds in two days.

I choose the 30" bbl because it's long enough but not so long as to make my rifle overweight for the nationals if I ever get a chance to go.

I waited two years and couldn't be happier. No Italian rifle would have satisfied me, although others who own Italians rifles like them and win with them. The .45-70 is used by half those who enter the competitions, that says a lot about the cartridge.

You plunk down $250.00 when you place your order. After two years I got a letter to send in $3400.00 which I had easily saved up for in that time. Plus your dues to the Fed's and my State gov't took their fees for all they do for me.

I'm very glad I had the factory install the sights, plus help me with the choice of sights.

[Don McDowell]

45-70 is a good place to start. 30 inch barrel will be plenty for most bpcr cartridges. Don't scrimp on the sights, a sight that won't stay solid, or a front globe that is to small and not let enough light in will be no end to accuracy headaches.
Might give a highwall some consideration for left handed use.

[John Allen]

I have had both of these along with a ballard. I would go with a shiloh sharps, for the money there is no better. I would get the dual set trigger version. If you are shooting of a bench I would go with the pistol grip stock over the straight stock. Also get a flat buttstock one if possible or put a leather slide on pad on it if you are doing a lot of shooting in a row. As for sights take a look at the kelley soule sights. I have couple of different ones and like these the best. Also you will want a hadley eye cup. They really help out with varying light conditions on the range. Check out http://www.buffaloarms.com/ they are my go to for this kind of stuff.

[Gunlaker]

I'm a lefty and shoot mostly Sharps and high walls. The .45-70 or .45-90 will do what you want. I'd choose the .45-70 in a pistol grip Sharps or highwall. If you need more case capacity you can order a bullet with reduced driving bands. I have one that I seat into the case only .238" and leaves room for 80+ grains of FFg.

I'd keep away from the 34" barrels and stick with a 30". The 34" you are thinking about with respect to sights is for the sight radius, not the barrel length. I have a 34" Shiloh LRE with a standard weight barrel. It requires a higher sight setting than it would with a 30" barrel. It also is too long to fit into some gun racks :-). I'd sell it and buy a 30", but it's just too accurate to sell.

Definitely go with set triggers and a pistol grip with a shotgun buttplate.

Be careful of stocks with much drop. I find them harder to shoot well off of the sticks. My straight grip stocks have more drop and require me to set my cross sticks higher which, for me, results in a less stable position.

If I were to pick the perfect all aroun blackpowder rifle it would be a Shiloh Long Range Express in .45-70 with a 30" heavy barrel and a low profile MVA front sight and either a midrange or long range MVA soule.

The highwalls are nice, but in general will be lighter for the same barrel length. You can lengthen the barrel to get closer to silhouette weight but then offhand suffers. The highwalls do have an advantage though (at least for my CSA 1885's) in that they need less rear sight elevation for a given distance.

That's my $0.02. For what it's worth.

Chris.

[BruceB]

At the risk of creating a bit of thread drift, I'd like to ask a question of our more-experienced BPCR shooters:

My Shiloh was re-barreled (by Shiloh) a few years ago...from .50-2.5 to .45-70, 30" standard weight.

I mounted an Axtell "Rifleman" long range tang sight (bought from Mrs. Axtell herself at the Big Reno Show , nice lady!). Up front is a "Parts Unknown" spirit-level sight with a bunch of interchangeable inserts. I believe the Axtells are no longer being made.

My question is simply this: how well does the Axtell sight compare to others in the field? I don't shoot competition, but I DO like good equipment. The setup seems to be high quality, but I'm no expert....what say ye???

P.S.: Just remembered to add this..... I too am a lefthander, and the '74 Sharps'-type rifles pose NO problems for me in shooting, loading or handling. I only wish I had a few more of 'em!

[country gent]

Handle as many diffrent rifles as possible. If able shoot some of them also. There are alot of good useable calibers out there the thing to watch for is brass cost / availability. Set triggers are great a single trigger set up right is almost as good. SPGs loading manual gives a good break down of different calibers and what to expect from them. 40-65 and 45-70 are probably amoung the most popular 2 calibers. You can go with either one and be very successful. I currently have 2 rifles a pendersoli sharps long range in 45-70 with 34" barrel ( yes it is about 6 ounces to heavy but local matches dont care ) A CSA Hepburn in 45-90 with 34" tapered octogan barrel thats 12 LBs. Both have double set triggers Long range soule rear sights and globe fronts the pendersoli's is wind adjustable. Both have hadley eyecups also
When possible attend matches, gun shows swap meets, local gun sops and handle as many as possible. Pick up a copy of SPGs loading manual. Study the diffrent makers web sights. Take your time decide what you want to accomplich and how. ( Trust me 550 grn bullets at around 1300 fps make for a long day 45-90) I cant help with the left hand operation but a centered hammer and lever may make for easier operation for you. Again handling some will show this. Buy your rifle 45-70 dies a mold ( the lyman 400 grn round nose or 534 grn postell are good starting points) Decide "how your going to shoot sitting or prone and make or aquire your cross sticks stool and mat.

[hickstick_10]

I would recommend a rolling block for a starter gun, the Sharps are nice and I shoot a Shiloh, but they are more expensive and the do break parts. A buddy of mine is a near sighted Polish welder, he shoots a pedersoli roller and we both have MVA sights, he handily beats me and my Sharps shooting more times then I care to admit. And he's never had a broken part on his roller, just the nature of the beast.

Caliber is easy............always ALWAYS start with 45-70, you can always ream it out bigger later.

34 inch barrel is excessive, I have a 32 inch and I wish it was a 30 inch.

Do not buy cheap sights, and you should consider MVA for your rear sight.

[John Boy]

Help me out so I know which rifle I am saving up to buy. Drummer, don't rule out a CPA 44 1/2 Stevens, custom made to your liking by the Shuttlworth's, Paul & daughter Gail ...
http://www.singleshotrifles.com/rifles.htm
The best part about the 44 1/2 actions is you can swap different caliber barrels, as large as a 45-110 which make weight requirement for all NRA matches ...
http://www.singleshotrifles.com/calibers.html
* All CPA's are throated for fixed cartridge & breech seating
* Change stocks for all the competitions - mine is fitted for Schuetzen & Silhouette
* Only need one vernier on the action plus a foresight on each barrel
* Then you can start putting scopes on each of the barrels (already drilled & tapped) like I did ...
http://www.assra.com/cgi-bin/yabb/YaBB.pl?num=1386449645
* Fit to finish is excellent, plus turn around is usually 6 - 12 months, not 2 years with Shiloh
* Plus the service from Paul & Gail run neck and neck with Shiloh

[powderburnerr]

Bruce, the axtel is a good sight ,but it lacks the windage that some other sights what have ,
I have one and it is getting loose with age but then I bought it in the early 80s.
It is a good sight for what you do with it.and with care should do you good service .just don't break it.

[EDG]

I own both 74 Sharps and Highwalls in several calibers.
The 40-65 is abit easier to shoot but it is much easier to find a good 45-70 and the components to shoot it.
In my mind the Sharps side hammer being on the right is a hold over from percussion locks. When used on a cartridge gun it is actually better for a lefty than a righty since your thumb is on the right too. I guess the same goes for opening a RRB too.

Trigger wise I would much prefer a close coupled single set or just a good single trigger. Double set triggers are a totally ridiculous joke for me. Try pulling a heavy trigger then a light trigger time after time. Kind of stupid if you want a good consistent touch.
For a lefty consider a Highwall action - it works the same right or left, is stronger than the Sharps and safer than the RRB. Stick with a 30 barrel with what ever action type you pick.

With all the Montans Sharps 74 fan boys you will not hear much about the RRB. The RRB in a modern rifle is mostly a Pedersoli choice.
While you get all the claims of how close a Shiloh is to the price of a Pedersoli that only counts when comparing a basic Shiloh versus a ready to go Pedersoli. A used Pedersoli with shotgun butt and nice wood is actually way way cheaper. I know because I have a couple of them. Shiloh's chief claim to fame is a reduced supply that keeps you waiting for years. That should boil a little water.

[Red River Rick]

.................................That should boil a little water.

Really! :shock:

RRR

[hickstick_10]

Such bitterness.

[longhorn]

I have high walls, rolling blocks, and a Shiloh Sharps in the safe, so I'll weigh in here: firstly, I think Shiloh's "claim to fame" is their clearly evident pursuit of perfection in each rifle they make. That said, my competition rifle is a Browning BPCR, and I'd think a high wall would be the friendliest choice for a lefty. My unmarked original RB with Numrich barrel is a shooter with reworked trigger, and a pussycat with full loads, the first (simplest!) rifle I hand to people that want to try a black powder cartridge rifle. My Pedersoli, admittedly 20+ years old, has a soft hammer and block-perhaps never hardened at all-I won't shoot it or allow anyone to-YMMV. The Shiloh saddle rifle is probably the finest firearm I'll ever own, but I'd think the big hammer next to my eye might distract me if I were left handed. Get a 45-70 with a 30" barrel and the best set of sights you can possibly afford, and keep detailed reloading records......

['74 sharps]

I have two Pedersoli 74's, and they are fine rifles. Do they have the fit and finish of the domestic manufacturers, no; however, the import runs about half for the same rifle, and mine have worked well for a lot of shooting. Have never had an issue getting parts.

[DangerousDrummer]

Thanks to all for the input, it was exactly what I was looking for. Somehow I had missed the CPA rifles, so now I have even more selections to choose from. One thing I did notice is

1. There seems to be a majority that feel a 34 in barrel is not needed.
2. Good sights are required.
3. 45-90 might be too much for someone on blood thinners.
4. RRB vs Sharps seems to be a toss up, but as one member said, hammer next to my eye? Hmm

Thanks again everyone! I cast already and am really looking forward to getting into the single shot big bullets. I will let you know what I order.

[Kenny Wasserburger]

My daughter is right handed but: left eye dominate, so left handed shooter, I am a die hard Shiloh owner (5) yet for her we went with a custom High blocked Low-wall in 40-65, She only uses BP Loads in it(i know I load them) and has had great luck with them. I like my shiloh's and they have done very well for me over the years, the results more then speak for themselves. The Pedersoli's are well made rifles, Rollers though have a ton of drop in the stock and I have had them in a 45-70 trying to shoot long range with them kick the **** out of me, The finest Roller Pedersoli makes is their John Bodine model and would be the only one I would consider owning of their rolling blocks. Personally I would look harder at a C. Sharps Highwall for the left handed shooter, or a Browning BPCR.

KW
THE Lunger

[Lead pot]

Over the years I mostly shot rollers because I could afford them. Kenny is right, the stock has a lot of drop and they don't work to good for long range. For me anyway they don't. I had the sporters and military from the 11mm's to the .40 and I could never warm up to them but they were inexpensive so I used them.
I know nothing about the Italian rollers I never had one in hand. The first reproduction sharps I got was the Pedersoli Quigley when Cabelas first stocked them. I shot this .45-3-1/4 for several years and it just about broke me buying parts like the hammer and lever plus the springs. Now I have some high walls a couple trapdoors and 6 Shiloh's. The Shiloh's burn up 4 to 5 cases of black every year the rest stay in the safe or hanging on the wall.
I'm trying to switch to the left hand because of a heavy floater that developed in my right eye and I don't see the hammer an issue shooting the sharps left handed.

[gmsharps]

I knew the big guns would chime in on this. Depending on how soon you are wanting to start shooting really look at the Browning BPCR ,TexasMac should have an idea on availability of these guys. They are ready out of the box and have decent enough sights already installed to be competitive. This can give you the time to get another rifle ordered and then the wait begins. In the meantime you are shooting. This also gives you a backup rifle in the event some unkown issues come up. just a thought.

gmsharps

[Don McDowell]

If a hiwall is on your list, don't overlook the Winchester bpcr model, just a remake of the Browning but readily available. Having 2 rolling blocks still hanging around I would not want to be in the awkward postion of trying to get a round to chamber by reaching across or trying to use the off hand to push that breechblock shut.

[Bad Ass Wallace]

I started with one '74 Sharps and they kept breeding until the Hiwall came along

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v152/BAWallace/Picture028.jpg (http://smg.photobucket.com/user/BAWallace/media/Picture028.jpg.html)

[kokomokid]

Get a list of what is used at the nationals. Don't think it shows bbl length but anything over 30 inches makes chickens tougher. LB

[Silver Jack Hammer]

Forgive me for stating the obvious, but when lubing boolits for black powder, use SPG.

Mike Ventrino has a book on shooting black powder which was helpful for me. These folks at cast boolits are an invaluable resource.

[Don McDowell]

Forgive me for stating the obvious, but when lubing boolits for black powder, use SPG.

Mike Ventrino has a book on shooting black powder which was helpful for me. These folks at cast boolits are an invaluable resource.

As good of a lube as SPG is, and as nice of a fella as SPG is, don't get into a rut on that stuff, there are a handful of other lubes that will/do work better, and are readily available from a variety of vendors.

[Doc Highwall]

I would also take time to think how far you will really have to travel for shooting long distance 600 yards or more as to getting a 45-70 or 45-90 for target shooting. The trend for shooting silhouettes is going more towards 40-65 and 38-55 or similar cartridges for less recoil that will help your shooting while using less powder and lead.

[PTS]

“Shooting Buffalo Rifles of the Old West” Mike Venturino

I read this book like a bible and it helped me when I couldn’t decide what to buy and it helps me now with reloading, strategy, tips, etc. I bought an 1874 Pedersoli .45-70 and am very happy with it. You don’t have to cast for it; I will soon but I bought from Buffalo Arms and Montana Precision Swaging 20:1 bullets that work fine. Venturinos best advice was to learn one thing at a time and casting will come nearer the end. He says that .45-70 is the starting caliber for a new bpcr as they are easier than the others for reloading. Pedersolis are a fine quality gun, parts are available from many places, and the guns are much more economical than American made. I can own two Pedersolis ( I own 7 counting flints/percs) for the price of one Shilo; when I realized that, thats what did it for me. Talk about more bang for your buck.

[kokomokid]

Agree with Doc that my 40-65 is more pleasant to shoot than a 45-70 but I and my shooting partner have left several rams rung in the last few matches. We had center mass hits on them and wind from 12:00. LB

[hickstick_10]

You gotta have a little bit of "stomp" to fully enjoy the gun.

[kokomokid]

From my 2012 equip list at Raton, Action- high wall (42) all makes, Shiloh sharps (27) CPA stevens (17) Caliber 45-70 (56) 40-65 (28) 45-90 (13) Sights rear MVA(52) Baldwin(27) front MVA(41) Baldwin(36) Lube DGL(31) SPG(30)

['74 sharps]

As good of a lube as SPG is, and as nice of a fella as SPG is, don't get into a rut on that stuff, there are a handful of other lubes that will/do work better, and are readily available from a variety of vendors.

+1 It's easy to make a quality lube yourself and not be dependent on other suppliers and enjoy a great cost reduction. Making your own gives you the opportunity to make adjustments based on hot or cold weather shooting conditions. Beeswax for a base, Crisco, and a touch of olive oil works superbly at a lot less cost than commercially made lubes.

[freedom475]

This has got to be the most fun you can have!!!! Picking a BPCR. I have shot and owned several...but in the actual "game" of BPCR I see the trend of the winners is that they win!!
It seems that they don't win because of powder choice, lube choice...bullet moulds...gun makers...caliber choice....action choice,,,,etc, etc, etc,..Winners win because they outshoot everyone else! Period

Look at the equipment list all you want...the lists tell us "what the winners chose to shoot"... the 45-? with x lube and ___powder and a Baco mould won because "that" is what the "winner" chose to shoot.

One thing that I have noticed is that most matches are won on the "Off Hand" targets.


My choice/thoughts for a BPCR are as follows:

Shiloh...Best there is!!!... But you will pay Twice as much $ for this "attention to detail" ... ... They are Not for those that acutally want to shoot in a match this year...Just because you own a Shiloh doesn't mean that you will shoot well. (but you will sure look good missing):smile:

Pedersoli...The Only import" "production rifle" worth buying!!!!!!!!!!! The Pedersoli 74 Sharps will win every shoot it attends (as long as a "Winner" chooses to shoot it)

The C Sharps are great rifles and can be in your hand in very little time...and if a "Winner" choose to shoot one...the C Sharps will win,:p

My personal gun... Pedersoli 1874 action... in 45-70 caliber. My barrel is a 32" John King (fast twist 1:16.8 ) and any heavy weight, 45 cal Buffalo Arms bullet mould(BACO)
And the MVA soule sight...(don;t wast your money on anything else!!@!!!!!!!) I have the Axtel, and "parts Unknown and have used the Kelly and Pedersoli, and one more that I can't remember the name....the MVA really shines above the rest.

Here is a great reference link to the equiment list used at Raton over the years.

http://www.public.iastate.edu/~jessie/PPB/Raton/Results/NRA%20BPCR%20National%20Championship%20Results.htm

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=69913&d=1368071595

[Hering]

I have high walls, rolling blocks, and a Shiloh Sharps in the safe............. That said, my competition rifle is a Browning BPCR,...

Hi Longhorn
I'm looking at a Winchester BPCR, like you Browning, so was interested in you comment that you choose it as your competition rifle? Do you find it a disadvantage not having a set trigger?
Cheers
Hering

[CanoeRoller]

I currently own two Shiloh Sharps and two Remington Rolling Blocks. I have had quite a bit of experience with High Wall's as well. All of them, if well made, will shoot very well.

What your will be most happy with depends on you. What are your standards of accuracy? How good a shot are you? What is your goal with this, having some fun, or do you want to be a national champion? Nearly all the manufacturers make a rifle that will out perform its owner.

A high wall is very easy to use, drop the lever, load, close and shoot. They have never been quite the 'right' long arm for me though.
A rolling block is also simple to use, it takes only a few moments to figure out what you are doing with them, a good rolling block also has a great feel, when you run the action. They are very simple, very little can go wrong or break. They are the weakest of the three actions.
A sharps has a couple of extra steps you need to learn, but also has a very beautiful feel in your hands when you work the action. I like the fact that I need to manually cock the hammer back to make it ready to fire.

Buy top grade sights. Even if you buy an import or a used firearm in good shape, you will be spending some serious cash for it. Don't spoil the fun by turning your sights into the weak link in your shooting. A good rule of thumb is to think that you will spend at least half as much on the sights as you spent on the rifle. I would buy a long range sight, so that if you decide to shoot longer ranges than you expect, you can. The small increase is cost is worth it, so that you have the option to go long should you ever want to do so. Personally, I like MVA sights.

If you are starting out. I would recommend a 45-70. There are lots of components available. You can play with brass, moulds, and powder charges. There are a great many folks who can help you develop a load. If you are recoil sensitive, my next choice would be a 40-65. You will have to look a little harder to find all the stuff you may want, but the recoil is quite a bit less, and the cost per shot is less as well. I personally do no much care for 38-55's. I find they are the minimum cartridge you can use on silhouettes. It can be frustrating enough when you are starting out that you may want to avoid rockin' rams and spinnin' turkeys with an underpowered rifle.

The barrel length of choice for most shooters is 28-32 inches. Less than that, and you will not be getting the most out of your BP loads, and with iron sights, the sight radius matters. Much longer than 32 inches, and you will find yourself fighting the tendency of the rifle to roll forward from your grip, making the chickens a mighty tough target.

[bigted]

wont even advise ... except to say that this bit of advise is worthy a second look and then a third;

whatever your wallet says you can afford ... stretch it to the breaking point when looking at a rifle that is going to be a part of your mind losing addiction and then add to your "package" as you can afford to. the rifle is your most expensive cost and also what you will fondle many hours at a time with that stupid smile on yer face. so here is the best advise i can give ... pay till you wanna cry for a rifle that will stay in your affection for many years to come ... then add to the cost a bit for the stuff you really WANT on a once inna lifetime purchase.

my first purchase is still in my possession and i get it out from time to time as it is the first and firsts are always ALWAYS special.

have fun with this purchase ... dont shortcut the process ... enjoy all the "help" and "suggestions" given ... then take a bit to go handle your dream before you buy ... the extra time taken will only enhance your experience.:drinks:

[Lead Fred]

Been making my lube for years. Never have bought any. Bee's wax, lard & Cornola oil.

I had my heart set on a Sharp's for may years. Fell into a trade for a H&R Buffalo Classic. Mounted a flip up latter sight on it.
Bangs the 550 yard gong, all day long. Shoots holy black OR smokeless, and I save 2 grand.
Dont look fancy, but neither does the wife, and she works real well too

[Silver Jack Hammer]

Mike Ventrino says good things about the Pedersoli and he says they win matches too. I bought the Shiloh because I wanted a checkered stock, pistol grip and an extra inch length of pull in the 30" 45-70. I'm in the gunshops and on the web shopping all the time, in 2 years waiting for my Shiloh I have never seen a Pedersoli with those features as I wanted.

As far as recoil, I do not detect any recoil with my heavy barrel .45-70. Mike Ventrino says hits at long range with 40-65 is sometimes hard to detect, Mike Ventrino recommends the .45-70 especially for the first time buyer. I'm very happy with mine. I've seen the 38-55 shot at ranges with Winchesters and just don't have much confidence in that round at 600 yards. Although I've never owned a 38-55 and have never tried one at 600 yards.

Casting for me, my own boolits is real important. I've shot other peoples fodder and personally am only interesting in shooting my own cast boolits.

Off hand shooting, Ya Really! I got my Shiloh dialed in at certain ranges benchresting pretty quick and have been shooting it off hand primarily ever since. What a sport! When it comes to all the factors, rifle brand, caliber, boolit, lube, the single biggest issue and the biggest cause of a miss is me. Shooting off hand is 80 percent of my shooting. I don't have a long range firing facility, my 200 yard range is a 20 minute drive, I live the land of homes, trees and hills so I don't have a 1,000 yard range readily accessible. The 200 yard range is closed for 600 yard shooting once a month.

This is my first black powder rifle, I've owned it for about 6 months. I really appreciated all the help Lucinda at Shiloh gave me in selecting which model and which sights. For a first time buyer her advise was money well spent my me.

[longhorn]

Hi Longhorn
I'm looking at a Winchester BPCR, like you Browning, so was interested in you comment that you choose it as your competition rifle? Do you find it a disadvantage not having a set trigger?
Cheers
Hering
My Browning has the "Shaver trigger job" although done by me, not by Lee Shaver! It breaks cleanly at 2 1/2 lbs. I'm rather a fanatic about clean, light triggers, and this one satisfies me; a set trigger at 1/2 lb or so would be wonderful--but I'm no threat for winning any matches, anyway (beginning cataracts in both eyes, and low physical tolerance for prone). I didn't set out to buy the Browning as a match rifle, sort of wanted to try BPCR and happened across the rifle at a gunshow.

[texasmac]

You can't go wrong with a Browning or one of the more recent Winchester BPCRs (same as the Browning), but I sell them and have written a book on them so I'm biased.

BTW, I have a like new left-hand Steve Baldwin Long Range rear soule sight that I'll make someone a good price on. And check out the Browning and Winchester I have on Gunbroker under my "Itchingtodeal" handle. Since the Winchester does not come with sights, the Baldwin sight could be added for a very nice left-hand rifle. I also have a nice used Browning front sight I could install on the Winchester.

http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.aspx?Item=381194228

http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.aspx?Item=381198279

Wayne

[Silver Jack Hammer]

The price difference between the Pedersoli and the Shiloh or any other rifle should be of miniscule consideration. Shiloh lists for $1950.00 and Pedersoli lists for $1250.00. Get the one you want, Sharps, Rolling Block or High Wall. Buying a gun you don't want because of price will never satisfy you. If you can't afford it yet, save and wait until you can. After any buffalo rifle is purchased, you have to buy sights which are a very real expense. Be sure to be satisfied with the one you choose. Personally I had to get the Shiloh because I wanted certain features which were not available as custom with the Pedersoli.

['74 sharps]

The price difference between the Pedersoli and the Shiloh or any other rifle should be of miniscule consideration. Shiloh lists for $1950.00 and Pedersoli lists for $1250.00. Get the one you want, Sharps, Rolling Block or High Wall. Buying a gun you don't want because of price will never satisfy you. If you can't afford it yet, save and wait until you can. After any buffalo rifle is purchased, you have to buy sights which are a very real expense. Be sure to be satisfied with the one you choose. Personally I had to get the Shiloh because I wanted certain features which were not available as custom with the Pedersoli.

I checked what my Pedersoli Long Range which ran me about $1600 vs a Shiloh model as close to mine as I could get, and it ran $3200. The figures you are quoting are for the very basic model by both producers.

[DangerousDrummer]

You can't go wrong with a Browning or one of the more recent Winchester BPCRs (same as the Browning), but I sell them and have written a book on them so I'm biased.

BTW, I have a like new left-hand Steve Baldwin Long Range rear soule sight that I'll make someone a good price on. And check out the Browning and Winchester I have on Gunbroker under my "Itchingtodeal" handle. Since the Winchester does not come with sights, the Baldwin sight could be added for a very nice left-hand rifle. I also have a nice used Browning front sight I could install on the Winchester.

http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.aspx?Item=381194228

http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.aspx?Item=381198279

Wayne

I have been drooling over your Browning but if I "pull the trigger" on that purchase right before Christmas, the wife is liable to "pull the trigger" on a different gun.:-(

I think what I have to do is get her the new camper trailer she is drooling over, then I could convince her that Raton would be a nice trip, but I need to start practicing soon. Might work?

[Don McDowell]

Tell her Raton is a wonderful vacation spot. And by all means get her a nice travel trailer, the rv park is fantastic, plus the food they serve at the restaurant is reasonably priced and portioned well enough that two can really eat on serving...
With that said go to gunbroker and search 40-65, there's one of the round barreled 85's in 40-65 there at a very reasonable price, and brand new still in the box.

[Gunlaker]

You know, I'm working on the same thing. My wife has decided that she wants a small travel trailer, 1960's retro style. I told her that fits in fine with my plans. I hope to get one this coming year. All of the shoots out here require overnight trips. Much better than a tent.

With respect to those Brownings, they are great little rifles. If you can pick up a good used one, jump on it. I was shooting one of mine this morning and it's quite accurate.

Chris.

[Silver Jack Hammer]

'74 Sharps,
My price quotes were for the basic models, by the time I got my Sharps home it was almost $4000.00 but I got custom order features unavailable through Pedersoli. Another buyer could spend a lot less for a Sharps than I did, get a basic model, add sights and have a good shooter, yet a Pedersoli buyer who spends less still has the cost of the sights so he's going to spend more than the list price before ringing gongs and making tight groups at long range.

When buying a gun, I believe the buyer should get what they want even it this means saving for a longer time and postponing the purchase. The long wait for the Sharps gave me plenty of time to build up the gun money account.

The Pedersoli gets good reviews from those who shoot them. My biggest issues are that I need the one inch extra length of pull, wanted a pistol grip and checkering so I went with the Sharps because I never saw a Pedersoli with these available. Then I got the personal advise and service through Shiloh that I as a first time buyer really needed about sights, bedding, barrel choice and stock design.

[John Boy]

My biggest issues are that I need the one inch extra length of pull, wanted a pistol grip and checkering so I went with the Sharps because I never saw a Pedersoli with these available.

Silver Jack, guess you haven't really looked hard enough.
I've had the Competition model for 3 years - was 45-70 and is now a 45-90. Nice part about the rifle is the stock comb puts your eyes straight down the top of the barrel - plus the French Gray bluing
http://www.davide-pedersoli.com/scheda-prodotto.asp/l_en/idpr_214/rifles-1874-sharps-rifle-1874-sharps-competition.html

They go for $1900+ but I bought mine from Cabelas for $1020

Also go to Cherry's website - plenty of other models with what your looking for ... http://www.cherrys.com/ped_cart.htm

[Don McDowell]

Pressed checkering vs handcut....
Same pattern on every rifle coming out of the stamping machine vs pattern to suit the future owner...

[Silver Jack Hammer]

John Boy, nice rifle, good choice. That one has a high comb stock. The first thing Lucinda at Shiloh had be do was shoulder two rifles and I choose the model which did not have the high comb stock, the Montana Roughrider. I just personally favor the non high comb stock. My Ruger M77 and Winchester pre-'64 M70's also have the low comb stock. Just a personal preference. This Shiloh is the first custom rifle I've ever owned and it is really nice.

[John Boy]

Pressed checkering vs handcut....Don, mine are laser cut and match grade bore at half the price

[Don McDowell]

John you ever put that rifle up side by side with a factory checkered Shiloh, you'll see instantly the price difference.

[EDG]

I have looked at many of both and the difference in the workmanship is not enough to offset the cost .
Don't try to kid me about workmanship I spent a career dealing with expensive machined components that make a Shiloh look like chump change in both cost and workmanship. Yeah there is a little difference in the checkering but I am not a big fan of checkering. Mostly the Shiloh fanboys have never owned or shot a Pedersoli.



John you ever put that rifle up side by side with a factory checkered Shiloh, you'll see instantly the price difference.

[Don McDowell]

EDG you man have to be either dumber than a post, or nothing but a freakin trouble maker. If you really did know your head from that hole between your butt crack, you'ld know a huge percentage of the bpcr shooters that have been in the sport for any length of time started with a Pedersoli, or other Italian import. Some of us still have the first rifle as it was built, some have rebarreled, and some sold the thing to finance their Shiloh or C Sharps.
I'm not sure exactly what your problem is with Shiloh and C Sharps, but quite frankly bubba it's getting to be a bit of a bore.

[sharpsguy]

I have looked at many of both and the difference in the workmanship is not enough to offset the cost .
Don't try to kid me about workmanship I spent a career dealing with expensive machined components that make a Shiloh look like chump change in both cost and workmanship. Yeah there is a little difference in the checkering but I am not a big fan of checkering. Mostly the Shiloh fanboys have never owned or shot a Pedersoli.

EDG--I have owned several Pedersolis. I still own three. I also own several Shilohs, and have a lot more than three of them. I have not bought a Pedersoli since I got my first Shiloh. It is a fact that you frequently see people selling Pedersolis so that they can buy a Shiloh. It is also a fact that you never see someone selling a Shiloh so that they can buy a Pedersoli.

[Yellowhouse]

EDG--I have owned several Pedersolis. I still own three. I also own several Shilohs, and have a lot more than three of them. I have not bought a Pedersoli since I got my first Shiloh. It is a fact that you frequently see people selling Pedersolis so that they can buy a Shiloh. It is also a fact that you never see someone selling a Shiloh so that they can buy a Pedersoli.

That latter is the most succinct summation I've seen in a while. Dead on!:drinks:

[cal50]

I have looked at many of both and the difference in the workmanship is not enough to offset the cost .
Don't try to kid me about workmanship I spent a career dealing with expensive machined components that make a Shiloh look like chump change in both cost and workmanship. Yeah there is a little difference in the checkering but I am not a big fan of checkering. Mostly the Shiloh fanboys have never owned or shot a Pedersoli.


Well to be objective both Pedersoli and the American's ( C'Sharps & Shiloh) all make nice rifles. The Pedersoli takes a lot of grief from the Sharps's snobs but its the only one with a forged receiver and has very good barrel that will shoot better then most people behind it. The American Sharps can be outfitted with nicer wood if you are into looks.

I will give the edge of fitting to Shiloh but Pedersoli makes an excellent rifle and anyone that suggest otherwise is full of ****.
Own both, like both.

[CanoeRoller]

The fact is, Shilohs have a better fit than Pedersoli's. Whether that quality improvement is worth the extra cost, is up to you. Many shooters will never know the difference, others will. Maybe that difference is all in their heads, and maybe it is not. I used to sell lots of Optics in my Dad's sporting goods store, many customers claimed they could not see the different between the $300 dollar pair of binoculars, and the $1,000 pair. If you don't see the difference, you will be wasting your money, but if you do see the difference, you know why the one pair costs more that the other.

[hickstick_10]

Pedersoli warant their 45-70 sharps to ruger number 1 loads?

[Silver Jack Hammer]

I toured the Shiloh factory, they said they made rifles just the same way as the original Sharps were made in the 1870's. There are a lot of ways to make these rifles less expensive but Shiloh chooses to make them the way the originals were made. The finished product is priced accordingly. The Shiloh factory is nice but it is humble, in a little town in Montana. The owners took their time with me and were very personable and friendly, and knowledgeable.

I'm looking at purchasing a Colt SAA, I already own more than a half dozen of them. This one I want is almost $2,000.00. I own Uberti's, Rugers, but I am looking at purchasing this Colt. If I do, and announce it on this website, you are free to post something about how much less an Italian copy costs and how well it shoots. But my choice will not waiver.

I believe guns should be purchased by American citizens who are not convicted felons and these guns should be shot, a lot. All of them. Glad those who chose a brand are happy and proud of your choice, I love talking to you about the various brands.

I also agree with Clint Smith that golf courses should be plowed under and that land converted to rifle ranges.

['74 sharps]

Pedersoli warant their 45-70 sharps to ruger number 1 loads?

Shooting smokeless powder in a replica Sharps of any manufacture is like wearing brown shoes with a black tuxedo.............

[sharpsguy]

Pedersoli warant their 45-70 sharps to ruger number 1 loads?

No. Pedersoli only warranties loads in the black powder pressure range.

[country gent]

I have several diffrent BPCR rifles I am working with for the fun of it. The first was a pendersoli sharps Long range ( Cabella's model) in 45-70 with a 34" half octagon barrel. Its a very nice rifle shoots great and decent wood. Lines are a little fuzzy, no checkering, metal finish is acceptable and good. Next is a C Sharps Hepburn 45-90 34" tapered octagon barrel. Pewter forend tip fancy walnut stock Very nice rifle shoots great is a fine handling rifle. bluing is the deep mirror blue that you get lost in The case hardening is almost a rainbow of blues purples yellows and such, Lines are sharp and crisp, wood is a very nicely figured walnut. The third is a CPA Single Shot in 40-65 with 30" barrel that is due for delivery end of january. But I got my choice of barrel maker countour twist and length, wood grade type and finish, sights, butt plate style length of pull and wieght of finished rifle. This is the diffrence between the custom/semi custom makers and the others. You can get exactly what you want from them ( with in reason) or whats available off the shelf from the others. Sort of like the diffrence in cost between a tailor made suit and of the rack.

[Gunlaker]

The reality is that they are all good guns. Good enough that most shooters don't have skills to shoot better than the rifle can. I've owned a Pedersoli, and currently own a bunch of CSA rifles, several Shiloh's, a couple of Browning/Winchester BPCR's, and a CPA. They are great rifles, but at one time or another I've been dissapointed by each manufacturer except for Shiloh. I have read of people having the occasional issue with a Shiloh too, so they are not completely immune. However if I wanted a rifle built to a particular set of specs and wanted it to come out right I'd choose Shiloh just because they have never let me down. The other option would b a custom gun built by a reputable single shot gun smith, but then you are talking serious money.

One thing to factor in is cost. I know a number of guys who would love to have a Shiloh, but it's just not in the cards financially, so they buy a second hand Pedersoli. I've been fortunate in business so I've been able to afford rifles that some cannot, but I'd never knock a guy for buying a Pedersoli. I've seen some of them shoot very well. Although personally I'd pick a used Browning or Winchester BPCR over a Pedersoli. I say this only because the used Browning I picked up a coule of years ago is very accurate. I've only recently started playing seriously with I and I'd say it is at least as accurate as my Shiloh LRE which is my most consistently accurate rifle. It's less good than my Shiloh LRE for offhand though.

Also, to set the record straight, CSA uses forged receivers.

The important thing with these rifles I to have fun with them and encourage new shooters to the sport.

Chris.

[Yellowhouse]

Seems to me that with modern metallurgy and quality companies that the issue of whether the receiver is investment cast or forged isn't even worth arguing about.

[Gunlaker]

I think you are right Yellowhouse.

Chris.

[Don McDowell]

The important thing with these rifles I to have fun with them and encourage new shooters to the sport.

Chris you hit it straight on right there. I'm always amazed when these discussion get littlediddle syndrome folks coming in jumping on the " Sharps snobs" about calling Pedersoli's junk etc. I've yet to see that happen. Used to be you could get 2 new pedersoli's for one Shiloh, but that's been a long time ago, and if you follow the link Johnboy posted to Cherries, when you start to order Pedersoli's ( and read what they say there are a number of those rifles that are special order only) the supposed price difference disappears, and in some examples the Pedersoli is actually higher than a Big Timber built gun.
Always and ever do some real price comparisons,, and think a little bit, if that used imported gun is bringing half or less than a USA built gun, ask yourself why is that happening. And then there's always that little voice that asks, why is the guy selling the gun?
Buy what you can afford, but get a little serious about the actual cost and difference in overall quality.Plus unless you are in a hurry have to have it today, when you look at the process of buying a Shiloh it's actually easier, as you have sometime to save up the money before the rifle is completed .
But this stuff has gotten way off the subject of the op's original question about a good set up for a left hander, and I'll still say one of the 85 highwalls would be my pick for ease of use from the offside, and either a CSA or Miroku built gun the best way to go as both use high quality barrels.

[Gunlaker]

Yeah we have drifted away from the original poster's questions a bit :-).

I'm a lefty and I'm pretty much happy with any of the single shots. I've had to make compromises on the way. For instance my Shiloh LRE was bought used and it has a cheek rest for a right handed shooter, but it still works for me. The more I play with my .45-70 BPCR the more impressed I am. If it was a pound heavier and had set triggers it would be perfect. It really likes the Saeco bullets. In my last outing I put 6 out of 10 into 1.2" at 200 meters. If I could only get a handle on my inconsistency and get rid of the flyers. It seems to have decent potential for bore diameter paper patch bullets, although I think it wants thicker brass.

Chris.

[Don McDowell]

Those miroku bpcr's are amazing rifles. I just wonder if the round barrel "sporting" model they made a run of last year shoot as well.
Wonder if you could get the stuff to do the Shaver trigger job on that rifle across the border. The trigger on my wife's rifle is just right and some of the accuracy that rifle has turned it at 1000 is simply amazing. But so far the thing really revolts when it's fed patched.

[DangerousDrummer]

Yeah we have drifted away from the original poster's questions a bit :-).

I'm a lefty and I'm pretty much happy with any of the single shots. I've had to make compromises on the way. For instance my Shiloh LRE was bought used and it has a cheek rest for a right handed shooter, but it still works for me. The more I play with my .45-70 BPCR the more impressed I am. If it was a pound heavier and had set triggers it would be perfect. It really likes the Saeco bullets. In my last outing I put 6 out of 10 into 1.2" at 200 meters. If I could only get a handle on my inconsistency and get rid of the flyers. It seems to have decent potential for bore diameter paper patch bullets, although I think it wants thicker brass.

Chris.

So how about the sights being marked on the left side? Most of these I see have sights that look like they are set up for right handed only and Texas Mac indicated that he had left handed sights which is the first reference I have seen to left handed. How much are the scales used, and it seems like it would be a pain to roll the rifle over to see the graduations on the scale if they were used. Or would it be against the rules to use calipers to measure in competition, but that doesn't seem to fit in with the spirit of BPCR competition.

[Gunlaker]

Yeah, the sight graduations on the left side isn't great, but all of my sights are that way. The main thing I don't like about the sights on the Brownings is that windage is the opposite direction as on my other sights :-). Also I'm not a huge fan of the three interchangeable discs, I like the Hadley system more. But truth be told it's not a big problem I think.

The only real problem I've run into with being a lefty is that I have one rifle with a 23" MVA scope and I ordered the standard mounts. I should have ordered the schuetzen mounts as they are better for lefties. The elevation scale on the regular mounts is very hard to read as a lefty.

One thing that the Browning has taught me is how important good trigger control is. I was so used to shooting with set triggers that I developed some bad habits. I still have a long way to go, but the rifle is definitely helping my shooting. Don I worry about sending parts across the border and never seeing them again :-). If I was to do it again I'd call Texas Mac and buy a rifle with the Shaver trigger job already done. It's easier to do the paperwork to import a new rifle than sending parts back and forth I think!

Chris.

[Don McDowell]

So how about the sights being marked on the left side? Most of these I see have sights that look like they are set up for right handed only and Texas Mac indicated that he had left handed sights which is the first reference I have seen to left handed. How much are the scales used, and it seems like it would be a pain to roll the rifle over to see the graduations on the scale if they were used. Or would it be against the rules to use calipers to measure in competition, but that doesn't seem to fit in with the spirit of BPCR competition.

If you get one of the Red River soule sights, they are marked on both sides.

[Don McDowell]

Chris I understand about the sending the parts over the border, it's worry enough just sending stuff back and forth here within the borders.

[jlmurphy]

I started with a Rem. Rolling Block in 45 70. I now shoot a Uberti Hi Wall in 40 65, the single stock trigger breaks at 12 oz. I can not add to the discussion of the Sharps, except to say they are beautifully crafted. I do have a Red River rear sight from Buffalo Arms and consider it superior in design to the MVA, marked on both sides, 41 minutes of wind each direction, finer elevation adjustments, heavier construction, very positive vertical detent, and cheaper!

[sharpsguy]

Another vote for the Red River sights. I run them on all of my rifles.

[Don McDowell]

The neat thing about that Red River "borchardt" sight, is you can adjust windage and elevation without really having to break position, most of the other sights I'm experienced with you can adjust windage , but even adjusting the elevation, more than a "bump" you almost have to roll the rifle towards its side and look at the marks. That new eyecup is great for aging eyes as well, but the drawback on it is on the Winchesters you have to take the eyecup off to lay the sight flat on the stock for full cleaning of the barrel.

[Cimarron Red]

Kermit Hoke's sights are engraved on both sides, as well. And I'm pretty sure that MVA will engrave the scale on the right side for left handers on request.

[Crash_Corrigan]

For my first BPCR rifle I went for one of the Winchester/Browning Hi Walls made in Japan. A totally beautiful rifle with outstanding wood and excellent wood to metal finish. I equipped it with a set of Kelly Soule sights that set me back almost a grand in cash. I had a friend of mine do the trigger job involving a 7MM screw and the removal of the stock etc and this rifle has a beautiful trigger pull of way less than a pound.

The only regret I have is the choice of caliber. I chose a 50-90 Sharps. This is one large round. It kicks like a mule.....every time. If I can last to fire 20 rounds during a range session I am fortunate. I gird myself with the heaviest recoil pad I can find and I blaze away.

Since then I bought an H&R in 38-55 and I liked it a lot. Way less recoil. Then I got my hands on a Marlin Cowboy Model in 38-55 and that was even better.
I am thinking of disposing of that BPCR Sharps as I hardly ever shoot it anymore.

[DangerousDrummer]

I am narrowing my choice down to a CPA long range (which is a heavier version of the description below).

Approved for Black Powder Cartridge Rifle (BPCR) competition by the NRA, the silhouette rifle has either a sporting style stock with low comb (shown here) or the Model 52 style with more drop, and is available in either right or left hand style. Wood used for the stock is lightly figured walnut finished with a closed pore finish, or unfinished but fitted. The bottom of the pistol grip has the classic "S" shape on the bottom of the pistol grip. The black rubber buttplate is shotgun style to minimize recoil, and has the Stevens logo. Checkered steel buttplates and Pachmayr recoil pads are available. The action normally has a ball and spur (without wood insert) lever and double set triggers.

The long range rifle is similar to the silhouette rifle, but can have a heavier barrel and popular calibers include .45-70, .45-90, .45-100 and .45-110.

I will go with a 45-90 since our club has a 1000 yd range. While the original Stevens action is not as strong as a highwall, CPA uses thicker steel to make their action stronger than the original. I especially like the fact that the barrel can be swapped for a different caliber by removing one screw. I don't know if this could affect accuracy or not.

Does anyone use a CPA? If so, how is the accuracy?

[country gent]

I have a shilloette model being built right now in 40-65 win, its due end of january. Talk to them expresss your needs wants what youll be doing and they will be more than helpfull. We e-mailed back and forth several times getting info back and forth. When I called to ordeer it went smoothly and easily. I opted for fancier wood and nieder buttplate. 30' tapered octagon barrel, drilled and tapped for malcomn scope at 17" centers. From what I heard read they are solid accurate rifles with beautifull fit and finish.

[25ring]

Dangerous Drummer, I've got a CPA with 4bbls,22rf,45-100,38-55,40-65.Excellent accuracy with all,at least as well as I can use it. IIRC Brad Rice uses a CPA and has won quite a few BPCR matches with one.FWIW---Mike.

[MikeT]

I shoot a couple of CPA rifles and the only thing you have to watch is the barrel retaining screw may get loose. When that happens you will know it, unless you forgot like I did :>( accuracy will go to pot. I think the new models have a socket head set screw which will allow more torque on it to keep it tight.

Keep on hav'n fun!
MikeT

[EDG]

If someone did not offset the Big Timber fanboys all we would hear is Shiloh, Shiloh and even more Shiloh.


Chris you hit it straight on right there. I'm always amazed when these discussion get littlediddle syndrome folks coming in jumping on the " Sharps snobs" about calling Pedersoli's junk etc. I've yet to see that happen. Used to be you could get 2 new pedersoli's for one Shiloh, but that's been a long time ago, and if you follow the link Johnboy posted to Cherries, when you start to order Pedersoli's ( and read what they say there are a number of those rifles that are special order only) the supposed price difference disappears, and in some examples the Pedersoli is actually higher than a Big Timber built gun.
Always and ever do some real price comparisons,, and think a little bit, if that used imported gun is bringing half or less than a USA built gun, ask yourself why is that happening. And then there's always that little voice that asks, why is the guy selling the gun?
Buy what you can afford, but get a little serious about the actual cost and difference in overall quality.Plus unless you are in a hurry have to have it today, when you look at the process of buying a Shiloh it's actually easier, as you have sometime to save up the money before the rifle is completed .
But this stuff has gotten way off the subject of the op's original question about a good set up for a left hander, and I'll still say one of the 85 highwalls would be my pick for ease of use from the offside, and either a CSA or Miroku built gun the best way to go as both use high quality barrels.

[Kenny Wasserburger]

Mike,

That has always kinda been one of my issues with the CPA, I know some folks that have had tons of problems with locks and actions too. And others have had some good gunsmiths go at them and make em hum. They do have their appeal though with the changing of barrels and blocks. And Gail & Paul great folks and very supportive of the Creedmoor Match at Raton VERY!

Kenny W
The Lunger

I put negative SODS on Ignore.

[Lead pot]

I want to make another .44 and I been teetering between a CPA and a high wall. I think either way it would be fine but like said the barrel working loose on the CPA has been in the back of my mind.

Kurt

[Don McDowell]

I keep thinking about Steve's CPA at Alliance and how well that thing shoots, but then I think if I wanted a leveraction single shot I'ld be more inclined to go with a Ballard.
But dang its hard to turn a fella's back on the Hiwall.

[Jon K]

I have 38-50/45-90/22, and 45-70 being done now.

Accurate as the nut behind the trigger...

Jon

[Lead pot]

A CPA Jon?

[sharpsguy]

Can you say "East Coast parlor gun"?

[Lead pot]

Can you say "East Coast parlor gun"?

Yeh I know. I prefer a sharps over any of the other actions, but if I can’t get Shiloh to give me the ROT I want for this 44 I have to go where I can get it.

[Gunlaker]

Mike, my newer CPA has an Allen screw that retains the barrel. I haven't had issues with it coming loose, but it's a .38-55/.32-40 combo so probably sees a lot less vibration than it would with the bigger cartridges. I like the rifle, but there have been a few little issues.

Any idea what a 32" #5 barreled .45-90 would weigh on a CPA action?

Chris.

[Chill Wills]

Mine weighed 14LBS and change with sights. .......Baldwin sights... that turn like Palma sights ... backward of MVA sights. [smilie=1:
8-)
Michael Rix

[Jon K]

A CPA Jon?
Kurt,

Yuuuup...it fits me well.

Still have 2 Shilo's, but shoot the CPA most.

Jon