SWC didnt work in the muzzleloader

[glockky]

Yesterday me and my Dad went to sight out muzzleloaders in for the upcoming deer season. For some reason I had a bunch of T/C 45 to 50 cal sabots and Dad had some of the same in Harvester brand. Seeing as in how be just received a nice NOE 45 255 SWC mold we thought we would give them a try.

He was shooting a CVA optima pro and I had my newly aquired encore endeavor. Well to make a long story short no matter what load of blackhorn 209 we used we could not get either rifle to group. We tried from 80-100 grains and were both shooting 8-10" groups at 80yds. I really am not sure why this bullet did not work and was just wondering if anyone had any suggestions.

[mooman76]

Never shot sabot before but have heard it needs the right fit. Not only bullet to sabot but also sabot to your bore. Some sabot seem to work better in different guns. It does need a snug fit but that's as much as I know and maybe someone with actual experience will chime in to help you out better.

[tomme boy]

The boolit needs a bevel base. If it does not, it will cut into the sabot and the release will be different from boolit to boolit.

[Lead Fred]

My 45 cal PRB does 2033fps, and knocks the critters over, sure you dont need all that fancy stuff to kill Bambi's Dad

[Pb2au]

In my brief tawdry affair with inline muzzle loaders, I actually got a 45 caliber SWC to work in mine. The rifle was a Remington 700-ish muzzleloader, Lee's 45 SWC sized to 452 in a sabot. I do not recall what brand sabot they are, but I can check and post that info later if you would like. The final charge of 209 was 100 grains. This yielded a group at 50 yards of 1" on the money, and at 100 it hovered around 3 inches if I did my part.
The fit of the whole arrangement is key. Everything has to be a tight fit. I could see where a bevel base boolit might be a benefit, but I have no real world experience to work from on that.
I will dimension the components I have and post them when I get home from work. I am thinking there might be your issue.

[Maven]

Bore dimensions and how well the saboted bullet fits your bore are primary contributors to inline accuracy in my experience. Powder type (BP or synthetic), powder charge, and powder granulation (FFg-, FFFg- equivalent) a secondary, but nonetheless important. Primer type (Win. 209, CCI #11, Rem. #10) really never made any difference in my rifle. As to the particulars, I used both Lyman #429421 and the RCBS 250-K version of it in a MMP green .50cal. sabot over 80grs. of either FFg (Graf's/Wano) or Pyrodex RS with any of the aforementioned primers and was very happy with 50 yd. accuracy (from a rest, aperture sight). In short, they outshot every other bullet combination I tried. Btw, these were plain base CB's which I cast from WW's + 1% Sn.

[NSB]

Was there lube on your bullets? If so, that will kill the deal. As stated above, dimension is everything in these guns. Bullet to sabot and sabot to bore. The sabot has to "grab" the bullet so it spins and if it isn't doing that, your shooting an unrifled gun so to speak.

[johnson1942]

way too small a bullet. you two most likely have a 1/28 twist. get mmp sabots high pressure .50 cal sabots x .458. get a 380 grain short nose .458 or .459 bullets. can even try a 400 grain .458 bullet if the nose is short. they will drive tacks to maybe even 1000 yards. the 200 to 250 grain .451 bullets are ment for 48 down to 1/32 twist.

[shredder]

I had a very similar experience with my attempt to do that same thing. I bought a Lee 452 240 truncated cone to go in my stash of 45 for 50 sabots. MMP black is what they are. I could not get 3 shots on the 2 foot by 8 foot backstop reliably. For the longest time I agonized overwhat was going on. I am still not sure, however I did find a combination that shoots inside an inch for the first cold clean shot. I know this becasue I used the same target 4 weeks running and fired one shot every Sunday morning at the range to test. I resultant "group" is a ragged hole. These are what shoots best for me. http://www.prbullet.com/ee.htm
Please let us all know if you are able to solve this. I for one would love to be able to get one of my own boolits to shoot like this but so far.......not happening.

[375RUGER]

Do your smoke poles shoot other boolits ok? What is your twist?
I had mediocre results with 250g, things improved dramatically when I went to 300g.

[aspangler]

My T/C Firehawk shoots 2" groups at 100 yards using MMP black sabot,Lee 45 TC sizes to .451 230 gr. , over 90 gr. Pyrodex rs. I can't shoot much better than that with my old eyes.

[nekshot]

when I was using sabots in our 50's, I used lee 240 tl(430 dia) and green sabots. With 777 or other black man made stuff they produced good hunting groubs at 100 yards. The load was 70 to 80 grains. All deer shot at were dead with complete pass thru, these were 100-150 yard shots. I now am using real bp and lee reals.

[johnson1942]

1 have 1 1/23 twist .50. it was real cranky untill i went to a sabot that holds a .458 bullet. it shoots one of my 45/70 bullets that is a true roundnose and weighs 466 grains. this bullet and sabot and 80 grains of 2f real black made this gun extreemly accurate. now i have to wait untill this deep freeze weather milds up and i want to really do some serious shooting with it.

[quilbilly]

Muzzleloaders can be pretty picky about what is used in sabot. My T/C Seneca in 45 would drive tacks with a 9mm 125 gr round nose boolit out to 200 yards and beyond but would not shoot a 357 cal 125 gr cast swc. On the other hand, my 50 cal T/C White Mtn carbine loves a 265 gr 429 SWC.
Nowadays, though, I just use PRB in both. Simple and deadly.

[glockky]

I think next time I go to the range I will try the lee 45-300RF