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View Full Version : 6.5 Carcano "nny" brass quality.



Muskyhunter1
12-08-2013, 09:21 PM
Folks,

What are your thoughts on the quality of 6.5 Carcano "nny" brass?

I picked up a Carcano Type 38 TS in 6.5x52mm on a deal. I then went to the local gun shop and ended up buying a bag of new empties head stamped "nny". I did some research and I am under the impression it is Yugoslavian and the "nny" is cryllic for "PPU" or Privi Partizan brand. I have used that brand in my 7.62x54r and it has been really good so far.........

I molded some Lyman 6.5 (#266469) 143 grain boolits with WW lead and sized them at .266 with a Hornady gas check. I then loaded the "nny" casings with the accuracy load recommended in the Lyman 45th Edition for the 6.5 Carcano. I used 15 grains (Max is 18 grains) of 2400 and a Winchester large rifle primer. I shot the load and it is very accurate in my old rifle that likely has a groove diameter of .268 (haven't had a chance to slug it yet).

During reloading I noticed the rims on the "nny" casings are very thin and required extra care so as to not damage them. I even had to switch to a smaller shell holder (for 7.62x39mm Lee# 12) then with what had came with the Lee dies to prevent damaging the rims during sizing, etc. This is where the first Carcano learning curve was encountered.

This was my first enblock type rifle and I didn't realize the importance of magazine feeding the shells, so that they fit (slide up) into the extractors on the bolt face as they are picked up during the cycling of the action. Initially, I single fed rounds into the chamber and I noticed the primers were backing out after firing and a few were even punctured (not good).

I then discovered this is a common problem that the primers do pop back out if the Carcano is single fed. When you magazine feed the rounds the case head/primer is being held by the rims to the bolt face on firing. The primers come out looking normal after extraction. When you single feed the round it often pushes the round farther into the chamber as the extractor can't get over or partially over the case rim.

A couple of days later I loaded another 20 rounds with the same load/casings. All rounds were magazine fed and it was much better this time. Only on one round did the primer puncture and leak some gas but all were somewhat flat and not overly protruding. The primer dents seem fairly deep but not overly. I examined the firing pin and noticed a burr or sharp edge on the end of the firing pin. I will obviously hone the firing pin end to take that sharp edge off before the next range visit. This should hopefully remedy any more primers leaking but of course time will tell........

Today I picked up a box of loaded Norma 6.5 Carcano rounds that make me question "nny" brass quality and the thinness of their rims may be a contributing factor affect the primers popping out. I measured the rim thickness of the "nny" shells and they are .0355 on an inch. I then measured the Norma brass and it was .0455 inch which considerably thicker than the "nny" casings. My thoughts are that the Norma brass will hold the primer/case head tighter to the bolt face during ignition. Therefore because of there being less play (-.0100 inch) between the bolt face and the case head on ignition the primer should not expand backward to the point it will/may rupture or pop up as it does with the "nny" brass. Just a theory any thoughts?

Thanks folks.

junkbug
12-08-2013, 10:24 PM
Norma brass was made with rim thicknesses carried over from the very similar 6.5x54 Mannlicher cartridge. The nny brass is actually closer to the original Italian cartridges. Many rifles I have had in the past worked poorly with Norma cases, and better with nny. The only 6.5 Carcano I own now does just fine with Norma brass however. I believe it is partially dependent on how worn your bolt, extractor, and chamber are.

I have never heard of single loading causing head space problems. People commonly caution against it in order to reduce the chance of breaking the extractor. Maybe a really stiff extractor is collapsing the cartridge shoulder. Of course, I do not have all the answers.

Good luck with your loads.

mac60
12-08-2013, 11:49 PM
I agree with junkbug in that the main concern with loading without use of the en-bloc clip is breaking the extractor. I use Prvi 6.5 Carcano brass to make brass for a 7.35 Carcano. It fire-formed nicely, loads nicely and functions well through the rifle. I just measured rim thickness on a few virgin unfired cases. Measuring at several points around the rim I came up with .0385-040. A cartridge drawing gave .041 for rim thickness. I think it's good quality brass - I use it in several cartridges.

edit: Lee gave rim thickness as .041, but Hornady and Lyman give it as .040, so the brass I have is pretty much in spec.

john hayslip
12-09-2013, 12:16 AM
I got some of the Carcano ammo from Graf and Sons. The first three shots were normal and the fourth shot kicked noticeably harder and the bolt face was seriously inprinted on the base of the cartridge. Took the rest down and reloaded.

jonk
12-09-2013, 12:44 AM
My experience with NNY brass so far is that it has been superb, both in quality and price. Is it Lapua quality? No, but in point of fact, it has outlasted my NORMA and is closer to original spec.

jonk
12-09-2013, 12:45 AM
I got some of the Carcano ammo from Graf and Sons. The first three shots were normal and the fourth shot kicked noticeably harder and the bolt face was seriously inprinted on the base of the cartridge. Took the rest down and reloaded. Probably is loaded with .268 j words, which are fine in most guns, but tight in others. Odds are good that just a little fouling build up pushed your gun over the edge.

ukrifleman
12-09-2013, 01:36 PM
I have found Privi brass to be excellent quality in all the calibres I shoot.
My M91 Carcano functions well with it.
I would agree with previous posts, that loading single rounds can lead to damage to the extractor in a Carcano.
I use the Lee 6.5x55 Swede bullet in both the original 170gn and cut down to 150gn, both moulds cast at .2695.
These moulds can be obtained from Mid-South Shooters Supply.
ukrifleman.

JeffinNZ
12-09-2013, 05:18 PM
I have someone of a major problem with split necks with my nny brass HOWEVER what doesn't help is that the die manufacturers cut Carcano dies to size the necks down to hold a .264 jacketed projectile. I expand my brass to .268 for a .269 boolit. As such my brass gets a serious work out every time and even annealling constantly doesn't help. Such is life.

leadman
12-10-2013, 02:29 AM
If the chamber is within specs for headspace and your brass is also within specs it would take considerable effort to close the bolt if the case was not against the bolt face. You would have to push the shoulder of the case back to do this. Could you be sizing the brass farther than it needs to be for this gun? Or maybe the first gun it was fired in was out of spec?
I would take a case that the primer was pushed out of and remove the primer without sizing, or reseat it so it is not sticking out, and put a piece of tape on the case head and insert it in the bolt and try to chamber it. If no additional effort is needed put a second piece of tape on the bolt face and try again. This should have resistance as max headspace is about .004" for most rifles.
If the shoulder is too far back towards the case head this is excessive headspace. You can do several things to correct it, one is size the neck larger, like 7mm, then partially size the neck while trying the case in the gun to form a small shoulder. You want just a little resistance. Or you can firform with powder and Cream of Wheat.
Once you get the cases fireformed by either method size so the shoulder is not pushed back too far.

bhn22
12-10-2013, 12:45 PM
"nny" brass is Israeli. IMI IIRC.

ukrifleman
12-10-2013, 03:45 PM
I have someone of a major problem with split necks with my nny brass HOWEVER what doesn't help is that the die manufacturers cut Carcano dies to size the necks down to hold a .264 jacketed projectile. I expand my brass to .268 for a .269 boolit. As such my brass gets a serious work out every time and even annealling constantly doesn't help. Such is life.

Lee 6.5x52 F/L sizing dies now come with a .268 mandrel as well as .264 and can be purchased separately.
ukrifleman

JeffinNZ
12-10-2013, 05:33 PM
Lee 6.5x52 F/L sizing dies now come with a .268 mandrel as well as .264 and can be purchased separately.
ukrifleman

Correct but it's all the extra work that the brass does. My ideal Carcano die would sized the ID down only to .267 inch to begin with.

ShooterAZ
12-11-2013, 10:03 AM
"nny" brass is Israeli. IMI IIRC.
It is not IMI, it is PRVI made in Serbia. I bought some from Graf's in 6.5 Jap. I have heard some of this brass has tiny flash holes that can break decap pins, but I have not had this problem with mine. It seems to be decent quality.

mark2935
12-12-2013, 10:24 AM
I have had good results with carcano and swede nny cases. If you find any Hansen cartridge co. brass, that is also headstamped nny . I have also had good results with P.M.C. (precision made cartridges) brass.

Mark#35

MtGun44
12-12-2013, 10:36 PM
NO, NOT IMI. "nny" is the Cyrillic letters for PPU, Pervi Partisan. The are copied from the
Greek letter Pi for P and the y is the Cyrillic letter for U. Made in Serbia. I have used
their brass in 7.5 Swiss for many years with excellent results, good stuff.

Norma is great brass, but the bullets are too small, so ammo is hyper expensive junk except for
the good quality brass. Hornady is the only current source for proper ammo
for the Carcano, and casting your own.

PMC is actually Poongsan Metals Corporation, IIRC. They have used all sorts of bogus
phrases that match. Precision Made Cartridges, Patton Manufacturing Corp, etc, etc.
Korean big company good ammo but not perfect, I'd rate it a 8 on a 1-10 scale.
They go to a fairly significant effort to NOT let people know that they are Korean.

http://www.poongsan.co.kr/eng/products/defense-products/commercial-ammunition/

Bill

462
12-13-2013, 01:04 AM
I have both the NNY and PPU headstamps and, yes, it is excellent brass.