Anyone use IR light to set powder coat?

[castalott]

The good infared lights are expensive and I would like someone with experience to say how well they work. I am not sure what kind of procedure would be best either- stand up-lay down- cook once -cook twice- well, you get my confusion. I want to get this powder coating to the easy point of tumble lubing with 45-45-10.

( I don't think PC will ever replace tumble lubing 45/45/10 in PLINKER loads in rifles. But I am hoping PC will allow me one load in multiple pistols and hotter loads in rifles.)

I have even thought about going back to spraying PC (I like Freightman's application with the vibrator/PC really well.) and modifying a toaster oven by cutting the bottom out of it. I would stand up bullets on foil on my welding table. Coat them and then set the open bottom toaster oven down over them to bake.

No moving the bullets around. You could do a 2nd coat by removing the oven and PC'ing again. One might have to raise them up closer to the heating coil with a stand or something. Of course this wouldn't work with an oven with top and bottom heating coils.

In this set up, the IR light would just replace the oven and that would be so easy...

Just some random thoughts...What say you?

Dale

[Oreo]

First thing that crosses my mind is that light does not circulate like heat does. Shadows might become a real problem.

[castalott]

Hmmm...good thought. One might put the boolets on a lazy susan and turn them as he cures them. (Get the light on all sides by shining down at an angle to get the lenght of a boolit and then change sides.) Or he might just move the light around....

Thank You for Your Quick Response, Dale

[popper]

Could work but control of temp would be a problem. Personally, I'd be tempted to make an ungrounded metal spray booth ( to withstand the heat) with an insertable heating coil system or removable cover over the coils.

[merlin101]

In the body shop we used IR lights to dry paint/primer all the time and it wouldn't just heat the small area it was focused on. As was explained to me (in simple terms) The lamp's heat penatrates the paint and heats the metal and that dries the paint from the INSIDE out. That way the heat is also transfered to the outlaying areas of metal.
I'haven't tried pc any boolits but I just might seeing as I have the pc, heatlamp, and boolits I just need to find the time!

[NoZombies]

I haven't done any PC bullets, but I helped design a patented device for curing specialized industrial coatings. That device uses catalytic IR heaters to perform the curing work, and it is very quick and efficient.

I think if I ever do PC bullets, I would almost instinctively use IR to cure them.

[castalott]

Cool! How long does it take to cure the PC? How close do you have to be? In short, Please inform someone who knows nothing...Thanks,Dale

[popper]

HF PC takes 30 min @ 400 F. The IR would be interesting to try but remember the boolits get to 400 F also - not quite like auto sheet metal. I think the auto shops have gotten away from the IR cure due to the electrical cost & better coating material. I talked to HiTek about UV cure poly, he said it's really expensive in the quantity our coating needs. HITek says the boolits must get to cure temp with his coating. My oven with 2 heater rods (600W) takes 10-15 min to get the cure started. So 2x 250W @$10 ea. lamps with 6k hr life time? Maybe it would work.

[castalott]

I see IR heaters powered by propane. Are these not effective? And I must admit the IR lightbulb crossed my mind. ~ $30 for 3 and run them all at the same time. Or maybe 4 and put one underneath your hardware cloth and do all sides at once. I dunno- just rambling...Dale

[Finster101]

Seems to be over complicating a simple process.

[bangerjim]

Agree with that......in spades.....finster101!!!!!!!

Why muck up a perfectly inexpensive way of curing PC (readily available convection toaster ovens) with light bulbs and gas powered heaters? Gas powered creates CO that could be problems in some guys spaces.

Taking the bottom off a convection oven would totally ruin it. Mine uses the bottom elements to generate the heat the fan circulates for a uniform temperature profile in the oven cavity. I do NOT use the upper broiler element!

Loading the trays of coated boolits into a toaster oven is no problem......if you use/design an efficient tray for the style/cal you are coating. I do 200+ at a time using 4 racks. They do not fall over. They bake perfectly. They coat 100% smooth. And I can make more racks/jigs easily.

There was someone on here a few months ago that tried using some kind of IR light oven for baking.......with apparently no success at all. The temp was totally uncontrollable....the slugs melted unexpectedly.....the powder did not cure properly, and the endeavor seems to be doomed for failure from what they tried over several experiments.

I would stick with what so many of us have proved hundreds & thousands of times.......convection toaster ovens.

bangerjim

[castalott]

Anyone else have anything to say?

[Aunegl]

yeah, some people enjoy doing a "Rube Goldberg" process.

[fcvan]

I have read where using gas fired ovens or IR type heaters is dangerous in that flammable out gassing can ignite and or explode. I will stick with my inexpensive Black and Decker toaster oven and avoid providing an ignition source. I modified the trays so that I can load two trays and double my output. I'm using non stick aluminum foil to coat sheet metal trays, and using fender washers (thanks to Ranier!) to PC rifle boolits with gas check shanks. HF ES gun to apply, bake for 20 at 400. Ding! Black beauties!

90186

[lavenatti]

I'm pretty sure that glowing orange heating element will work as an ignition source.

[popper]

The new ones are catalytic - i.e. no flame. Now the old ceramic/propane I wouldn't try. This does give me an idea for pre-heating boolits & drying cases. Got to find a 60W IR lamp.

[castalott]

Alright- I had to try it. I have a 250 watt heat lamp and I laid some Reynolds non stick foil on the welding table. (I didn't insulate the foil from the steel table on purpose so this would be a worst case.) I vibrated some boolits in red PBTP and stood them on the foil. I started the lamp at about 8 inches away.I laid my Lyman thermometer in the light beam and took note of the temp. It got up to about 200 in my cold shop. Moved the light as close as possible and the temp rose to just over 300. I keep it there for several minutes and thought this was a failure.
But it turns out not completely. The bullet closest to the lamp has set up. Even the bottom on the foil has set. I can't scrap it off with a fingernail but it also looks like it didn't melt completely before it set.

Hhhmmm.... This may turn out to be interesting. I'll turn the shop heat on next time and if i can find it, I'll get the old electric fryer and set the temp to 375 or so. Then put the foil down and the boolits on top and the light shining on that.

If it will work with one boolit, it will work with 500 at a time.

There are people on this board with the knowledge I need. Please speak up.

[sdcitizen]

Hi there, just pc'd my first batch of boolits this weekend. The kit I bought came with a 15 amp IR lamp, so not having a toaster oven, i tried the lamp, worked great for me. The boolits were stood nose down (swc) on top of a foil covered tray and sprayed, then i wheeled the lamp over and set it about 4 inches above the tray and turned it on. About 20 min later they looked glossy and maybe done, so after shutting off the lamp and allowing to cool, the coating is smooth and hard.
Pencil scratch test says the boolits are just as hard as before cooking (appox bhn 15). Wdww with about 20% pure. No range test yet, maybe next weekend.

[castalott]

Hi! Would you have pictures of the light and the boolits? I really think this has possibilities. Have you shot them yet? And where did you get the 15 amp IR light?

Thanks,Dale

[sdcitizen]

I could snap some camera phone pics today, still haven't replaced the actual camera after the house fire. I haven't had time to get to the range yet, some are loaded and ready to go though, perhaps this weekend. I will try to find more info on the heat lamp, it came used with the kit I bought. The es gun and all 60ish cans of powder are HOTSHOT brand.

[popper]

Wonder if a 400W halogen lamp would work as well?

[castalott]

I tried again today. I set a small flat plate on a hotplate added foil and coated bullets. Then added the light. On my first attempt, the hotplate was too hot even though the Lyman thermometer only said 300 or so. ( Some boolits melted.) The powder set but still a failure.

The 2nd attempt I used a larger thin flat plate, turned the hotplate down, added foil and boolits and then light. The reading was more even. Around 350 degrees. Success! The powder coat looks terrific and stays on thru the hammer test.

I am still lightyears away from the quantity I want but maybe I'll get there. Oh...just for giggles...I humbly name this process..."Photon"

O

[castalott]

Wonder if a 400W halogen lamp would work as well?
Hmmmm..I don't know...Northern tool has a 5200 btu lamp/heater on sale for $45.

I must tell you though that the talk of these coatings causing excessive wear worries me....

[sdcitizen]

Here is a shot of the Setup I was using, this is an approximate re-creation to the best of my recollection. Easily a 10 by 10 grid of boolits fit under the lamp at one time. I sprayed the boolits on the foil, removed the ground clamp and brought the lamp over.
91883
The next two pics are of the lamp itself, one of the only identification on the lamp, and one of the business end.
91884
91885
The end product, dunno if the coating is thick enough, probably give them a try and see. I did notice that boolits prior to coating need to be handled with gloves on, you can tell exactly where fingers touched every one of them. Upon close inspection of them, I did not see any evidence of slumping, or any dimensional changes from prior to coating, other than being between a thou and two larger.
91886

[bangerjim]

Hmmmm..I don't know...Northern tool has a 5200 btu lamp/heater on sale for $45.

I must tell you though that the talk of these coatings causing excessive wear worries me....

And FMJ's do not????????????????

The PC is harder than the lead, but softer than Cu.

I have found nothing in the powders (that I have) that is abrasive at all.

There are 100's of us on there that are doing PC'ing with no problems. But, who knows, only time will tell. For now I like clean barrels, perrrrrrty boolits, no Lubra-matic costs, no stinky sticky LLA, no smoke, and NO LEADING!

My jury is still out on this light thing. Convection toaster oven is the ONLY economic way to go.

banger

[sdcitizen]

Holy smokes! I Didn't realize how expensive those lamps are. My wife got me a convection oven for Christmas anyway. That lamp sure is nice for curing powder coat on other things that don't fit in a normal oven.