Loooong range challenge?

[Hogtamer]

I know you want it! Just for kicks is anyone up for a 100 - 200 yd lead slug challenge? Sometimes thinking outside the box yields surprising results! A couple of years ago I began shooting my old recurve bow with the compound guys from their stakes on the range on a regular basis. As it turns out it made me a much better shooter as I experimented with different arrows, weights and shooting form. And last year I made a perfect double lung shot on a nice buck @ 49 yds with my traditional equipment. I'm wondering if a conscious effort to extend our range might not turn up some new ideas in this dedicated, smart bunch of slug shooters that would have positive and surprising results? Winter's coming, the freezer's full and who knows what we might discover?

[cpileri]

That is an appealing idea!
Will there be categories: 12ga vs 20ga? smoothebore vs rifled? round ball vs slug vs sabot slug?
Will they be seperate categories or just an "Open" where anything goes and winner is most accurate period?
Just wondering, because it sounds fun!
C-

[Hogtamer]

Let's say "hand loaded" ammo, "store bought" for comparison only. After all if I can't equal or exceed store bought, why bother?? (I have done that with buckshot, at least by my comparison). The first thing that comes to my mind isn't the load, but the trigger pull on my main shotgun, an 870 wing master. A jerk and a yank is a high hurdle for good results.

[bikerbeans]

Hogtamer,

Postage stamp slug shoot? I'm in for this. Who will be the official scorer or do we just post pics of targets? IIRC, US SLug Shooters Assoc. (I think I got that right) used to have targets and stuff available for this type of shoot. Could use index cards, I have done this a couple of times for CF Rifle shoots, but I think the slug accuracy and the size of the hole would work better with larger targets. Benchrest, sticks or off hand? I have lots of questions, however, I am not much help with the answers.:mrgreen:

BB

[stripercrazy]

this sound like a lot of fun....post a target photo best 3 or 5 shot group @ 100 yards...hand loaded ammo....?..I passed a shot at 100 plus yards at a deer last week because my guns sighted in for 50 yards....it would be great to get used to taking longer shots and getting a good group for the hunting season next year.

[Hogtamer]

Good thinking guys, coming up with some standards. The ultimate goal is accuracy so let's not limit the weapon, just make it "hand loads". That would include things like the thug slug and DGS slug from BPI, since we are looking collectively for the best possible load! For range results let's keep it simple - the outline of the bottom of a 5 gallon bucket is ~ 10 inches, so for posted results that will be the standard so we can all compare. Also, can we use a "from center" measurement instead of group size? 3 shots cutting the line on a 10" circle would be a 10" group and that's not helping me much. 5" FC (from center) for each shot would be more helpful as that would smooth out the challenges of less than perfect sighting and trigger pull on our shotguns. A sample posting might look like this:
Gauge_________
Gun Specs __________________________________________________ _(including type of sight)
Load Specs_____________________________________________ ______
Distance ________________________________all @ 10" circle
Results (5 shots minimum, each stated as FC in 10" circle)
Comment (particulars like from a bench rest, wind condition, recoil, etc that we might all find helpful).
***The goal of this is not to find out WHO is best, but WHAT is THE best hand load - shotgun combo determined empirically by a common measure that we can all duplicate!*** MINIMUM distance for the purposes of this discovery journey will be 100 yds! Your thoughts?

[bikerbeans]

I agree on 100 yard minimum for rifled barrel guns. What about a second category for smoothbore guns at maybe 50 or 75 yards?

BB

[cpileri]

Are u describing a "floating bullseye" for scoring?

[longbow]

I'm in! I have got to get some range time so maybe this is a good excuse to reset priorities.

I am shooting smoothbore only. My normal range is 50 yards for comparison of slug accuracy but my goal has been and still is to have decent 100 yard groups of 6" or smaller, and I think that is reasonable for smoothbore.

Based on Hogtamer's criteria, my take is that we shoot at increased range until we can't keep groups within a 10" circle. Doesn't matter whether smoothbore, rifled choke tube, rifled bore, full bore slug, round ball or sabot slug.

I have had some pretty impressive groups from store bought Fosters, AQ's and Gualandi DGS slugs but my goal is home cast and loaded. As Hogtamer says ~ "After all if I can't equal or exceed store bought, why bother??"

I was planning to get out today, and may still, but it is a wee bit nippy here for an extended range session. It was -18C (0F) this morning so a bit cold. It has warmed up to -14C (6F) now. We will see how it goes later.

Anyway, it will warm up sometime so I am in.

Longbow

[Hogtamer]

Don't know that term cpileri. I'm thinking a 10" circle as a standard, that's the main thing. BB, let's push the envelope! I can buy a commercial full bore "rifled slug" and achieve good accuracy @ 100 yds out of smoothbore. A lot of guys with a lot of knowledge on this forum are really close to duplicating that already. Remember it's not about WHO is the best but WHAT is the best load/shotgun combo at distance and as stripercrazy alluded to, becoming absolutely confident in our weapons at longer ranges.

[Greg5278]

Are we only talking about cast Slugs? Handloaded Factory Slugs/Projectiles don't seem to fit the Apples to Apples comparison.
Just wondering where we're going. Sometime ago I had a LE Precision Shooter do an accuracy test for me.
He managed 1-1.75MOA at 100 yards with both Machined and Cast Full bore slugs. The Machined ones weren't any more accurate than the cast Wheelweight ones.
Greg
AKA 12 Bore

[Hogtamer]

Greg, gotta have more info! Load? Slug? Gun? Can't duplicate w/out specifics. Nailing down the Best is the goal with available components.

[longbow]

Greg:

I am sure you will be one of the top contenders on this endeavor! I will plug along with my old smoothbore with home cast slugs and see how I do.

It will be interesting to see guns, slugs and load components that do well in each "category". A guy with scoped heavy barreled rifled gun is in a whole different league that a guy with a lightweight smoothbore with open sights, but we will see comparisons between those that have similar equipment and we will probably see some smoothbore guns/loads outperforming some rifled guns/loads.

In the end we should see some interesting results from a wide variety or guns, slugs, and ammunition both factory and handloads. We have everything here from sawed off single shots and doubles to high end bolt guns.

This oughta be fun! I should be out there right now but it is still pretty cold. I may head out in the bush tomorrow and pace off 50 yards then let a few fly.

Longbow

[cpileri]

Really, i think the categories can be pretty simple: guage, smoothe/rifled. that's it. But the info supplied, so that it will be useful to other shooters shoudl include: gun, barrel length, bore size (diameter/slugged) and detailed load data.

And then the target idea is cool: 10 inch circle, start at whatever range you want. back it off until you cant keep it on the circle anymore. Submit your results. Alternately, we can set a range
as was mentioned ; 50, 75, 100 and beyond, and just measure groups.

That way, once the best begin to emerge; anyone who wants to attempt duplication can try it.

it may work out that we decide a "custom gun" category is necessary. but no need to complicate it for now.
besides, its not like we're doing this for a prize. just to see what can be done.
So lets just do it.

C-

[Heavy lead]

This sounds fun, I currently shoot the Guilandi DGS handloaded in 3" hulls using Longshot powder out of a 11-87 with rifled cantilever barrel. I recently required another one that I'm going to put a higher power Leupold and a regular reticle (I shoot my hunting rig with a 2-7 heavy reticle Leupold). I have a Lee mould I've modified to full bore which creates a grease groove it casts .734, I have to send some slugs and a check to buckshot this week to have him make a push through sizer at .729 as the barrel is .727. The DGS gives me 3" groups at 100 yards, and I think I can do better, one other thing I will do with the new rig is install one of these http://www.oneholeproducts.com/product/accurizing-slug-shotgun-kit/remington-accurizing-shotgun-kit-316/ to tighten the rig up.

[Hogtamer]

Heavy lead, love that handle and those are impressive results. That's gonna get some wheels turning. Gotta have some pics of rig and results next time you hit the range!

[FullTang]

Sounds like fun---I can use my iron-sight Tracker II to shoot the Lee slugs (7/8 and 1 oz) and .69 RB I cast, and I may even enter the "rifled" wax slugs I've developed. They are all surprisingly accurate at 100 yards, considering that I can barely see the target nowadays!

[longbow]

Well, I had planned to go out and sling some slugs this weekend but I wimped out. Getting old and soft I guess. It was -18C (0F) yesterday morning and warmed up to about -14C (7F) in the afternoon. A bit cold for me to sit at a bench for a couple of hours. So I figured I would get out today and while it warmed up a bit, currently -10C (14F), I decided to wait until next weekend. At -10C gun metal is cold on bare skin and it is hard shooting with gloves. I guess some of those thin mechanics gloves might help but I didn't think of that until now.

While it is cold I decided to make a target stand so I can easily take a trip to the range or bush and have my own target stand and not have to pound 1" x 2"'s into the ground or use the old beat up club target stands. Now that the ground is frozen there won't be any pounding 1" x 2"'s into the ground either!

I was planning on making a simple 2" x 4" base but was wondering about size for transport and storage so thought I would check the internet for ideas and found a great one. It might seem obvious once you see it but I have to say that this guy was thinking:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e4DBr7QcV8M

Simple, cheap, compact, easy to transport and store. Nothing not to like! The type I was going to build is similar and a common design but does not come apart like this. I like this way better.

Next weekend cold or not, I am set with loaded rounds and a nice new (scrap wood) target stand. If it is real cold again I will take a short drive to the bush and shoot a few then come home, rather than a long drive to the range which is higher and colder than where I am. It doesn't get much sun in the winter and I bet it is -20C (-4F) or colder today.

(Old and soft) Longbow.

[stripercrazy]

here in the north east every election they put out signs with the name/office/party on it.....there 1/4 inch wire work good for targets lol90000

[dverna]

Hogtamer,

This is a great idea. 100 yards is a good range as most of us have access to one. Separate categories for rifled and smoothbore seems fair. I suggest the average of three 5 shot groups to keep things realistic. If you throw enough rounds downrange you can get a 2" group with three shots and a 5 moa load. After all, the objective is reproducible accuracy - not a chance fluke.

I find it hard to believe anyone is getting 1-1.75MOA with a 12 ga .......that is better than most rifles can do. Not calling BS - just saying it could be a "wallet" group and may not be indicative of repeatable accuracy. If someone has a load that will do that, understands why, and can make it repeatable - they will be rich.

It looks like Hogtamer is challenging us to "go where no man has gone before". The value of that journey is to learn and expand the current boundaries of slug shooting. Sharing what we learn is good for the sport. So, Greg, if you have a load that shoots under 2 moa, many here would be thankful if you would share what you have learned/discovered unless you intend to commercialize your efforts.

Don Verna

[DRNurse1]

Hogtamer,

Postage stamp slug shoot? I'm in for this. Who will be the official scorer or do we just post pics of targets? IIRC, US SLug Shooters Assoc. (I think I got that right) used to have targets and stuff available for this type of shoot. Could use index cards, I have done this a couple of times for CF Rifle shoots, but I think the slug accuracy and the size of the hole would work better with larger targets. Benchrest, sticks or off hand? I have lots of questions, however, I am not much help with the answers.:mrgreen:

BB

If all y'all are looking for a scorer with no dog in the hunt I can help you there. Post the 'rules' here and PM for an e-mail/ mailing address. Or better yet, one of you sluggers can honcho the shoot and send me the completed targets after the finish date for the postal match and I can score them for you and post the results here.

[Hogtamer]

Ok,looks like we're on! I wanta thank AJ for all his work so freely shared here that really got me fired up about this earlier in the year. It's amazing to me how many bright minds are into this. What really got my juices flowing, a week ago I watched a nice buck for 15 minutes making scrapes and rubbing trees from 200 yds out. Great show! He finally worked his way through some brush and got within 80 yds, but head and neck only was clear. I didn't take the shot because I didn't have confidence in making a clean kill with my load. Still a great hunt but friends I don't like doubt when I pull a trigger. Now the hunt is on for big lead perfection! I'm gonna shoot some Remington Sluggers this week for comparisons sake and I'm expecting a shipment of a couple of new wad types soon. I guess post pics and results on this thread unless someone has a different idea. Stay warm and good loading!

[Greg5278]

I'd be happy to share the Load for the 770gr Slug, however the Load will be converted to use a Canister Powder. Mine used a Non-Canister Powder, since I was helping a Friend with some Load Development. It's better that Shooters can use the info and load them with something that they have access to. I cast the slugs from a Mold made by Mountain Molds. They alloy was Wheelweight with 2% Tin Added.

The Hull was a Fiocchi 2.75" Primed Hull with the Fiocchi 616 Primer
Powder Charge is 48gr of Hodgdon Lil Gun
X12X Gas Seal
(2) each .250" hard Cards
(2) each .250" Cork

Velocity is 1336 FPS and Pressure is 10,100PSI.

You can change the filler Wads if you cannot get ones witht he exact thickness. They vary significantly from Lot to Lot.
I like the .250" ones from Circle Fly, but they are much closer to 5/16". The slug should be sized relatively close to bore Size,
no more than .002" over Groove Diameter.
Greg
AKA 12 Bore

[littlejack]

Well fellas, this sounds like fun.
I would like to do some longer range testing with the Lyman Sabot Slug. I don't know how they will fare out to 200 yards, but will be interesting to see.
I would not want to see folks trying to hit deer at long range with their shotguns, I believe that there would be an abundance of wounded animals.
Jack

[Hogtamer]

Started a separate thread for range results only. Everybody welcome to participate as we hope to find the ultimate BIG LEAD loads for our shotguns at long range!

[SuperBlazingSabots]

Greetings Brother HogTamer, Great work, I'm for a change quietly enjoying your post and will be looking forwards to more of your creativity along with other Elite Slug shooter's creative minds work here.

The secret is in sharing it freely and not through selected PM!
Bravo!!

A famous sentence written on a Japanese bus stop....
"only bus will stop here not your time...
So keep walking towards your goal and don't give up hope ! ! !

Best regards,
Ajay Madan
Super Blazing Sabots
BlazingSabots@Gmail.com
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[OnHoPr]

Hey, Heavy lead you can check those ONE HOLE PRODUCTS Accurizing Kits on etsy at RusticNickNacknStuff shop name.