What's the smallest cartridge that uses large diameter primers?

[Whiterabbit]

This board has the best rifle loonies, this question is for cast booliteers.

What's the smallest cartridge that uses large primers? Any of them. pistol, rifle, magnum or no. just "large"

To make it reasonable, let's say SAAMI. if its common, that's even better. I'm sure there are some SMALL wildcats out there!

There should be two answers, I think. One should be the cartridge with the smallest water weight case capacity. something like 44 special, or 45 schofield. The next (which I am much more interested in) would be the smallest cartridge that minimizes caliber as well. Surely there has to be a cartridge out there smaller than a short action and smaller than 35 cal that uses a large primer.

Just curious.

[felix]

41 Mag. It should have been developed from the beginning with small primers, as well as for the 45 ACP. ... felix

[ReloaderFred]

For handguns, the smallest diameter case I can think of off the top of my head is the 10mm, and by extension, the 9x25 Dillon.

Hope this helps.

Fred

[seaboltm]

10mm, as previously mentioned. Although I would not be shocked to find small primer 10mm since I have seen small primer 45ACP

[frkelly74]

38/40 is the least powerful cartridge I can see data for that calls for large pistol primers. a bunch of 22 center fires use large rifle primers but they all make lots of noise. just did a quick search ,probably others who have more data available will find others. No wild cats right?

[454PB]

For rifles in standard calibers, I'm guessing 22/250.

[Moonie]

6.8 SPC is about as small in diameter as I've seen with large rifle primers. I believe Remington is the only brass with large rifle instead of small rifle primers in 6.8 SPC.

[SWANEEDB]

At one time some 38 spl & 357 had large primers but believe it didn't last very long--they do show up from time to time.

[clownbear69]

6.8 SPC is about as small in diameter as I've seen with large rifle primers. I believe Remington is the only brass with large rifle instead of small rifle primers in 6.8 SPC.

I was going to post this. I think S&B also uses Large Primers but federal and SSA uses small

[ReloaderFred]

I have .38 Special brass that takes large Pistol primers, and I also have 10mm brass that takes small pistol primers. The LP primed .38 brass was common when I started reloading in 1963, but not often seen these days. The SP primed 10mm brass is new.

Hope this helps.

Fred

[Piedmont]

41 Mag. It should have been developed from the beginning with small primers, as well as for the 45 ACP. ... felix

Both cartridges are noted for accuracy, so how can you say they did it wrong? By what standard?

[scb]

25,30, & 32 Remington. Smallest diameter cartridges I can think of.

[Green Frog]

None of you is even close! I saw 25-20 Single Shot cartridges once with Large Primers... there was very little case head left. :Bright idea:

OK, what do I win? :wink:

Froggie

[Outpost75]

7.62x39 is large primer in most boxer ammo.

Not common in this country, but in Russia they have the 9x39 which was designed as a more effective suppressed round than pistol cartridges, firing a 260-grain bullet at subsonic velocity. This would make a great cast bullet round and loaded to higher velocity with .357 pistol bullets it should have ballistics much like the .357 Remington Maximum.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/9%C3%9739mm

89759

From the Rosonboronexport catalog:

SP-5 (ball round)
Bullet weight: 16 g
Muzzle velocity: 295 mps
Muzzle energy: ~700 joules
Penetration capability of Bzh-81 type body armor: None

PAB-9 (AP round)
Bullet weight: 17 g
Muzzle velocity: 295 mps
Muzzle energy: ~740 joules
Penetration capability of Bzh-81 type body armor from 400m max, equivalent to 4 mm of steel.

[wistlepig1]

In rifle, my old book showed .225 win. with Large

Some where around here I have a few 219 Zippers and I THINK their LG but not sure.

[fguffey]

I have S&W 38 special cases with large pistol primers.

F. Guffey

[Harter66]

22 PPC for rifle/lg. 45 GAP pistol/ lg.

What about 357SIG and the 5.45 ??? I don't know for sure but it seems like the SIG is/was necked 10mm to 40S&W length.

[ReloaderFred]

The 357 Sig uses small pistol primers. Some believe it was the .40 S&W necked down, but the case is different internally, and it's longer than a necked down .40. It's made to withstand slightly higher pressures, too.

Hope this helps.

Fred

[KohlerK91]

At one time some 38 spl & 357 had large primers but believe it didn't last very long--they do show up from time to time.


Thats a fact.. I have some 357 mag brass that take Large Primers.

[dkf]

22 PPC for rifle/lg. 45 GAP pistol/ lg.

What about 357SIG and the 5.45 ??? I don't know for sure but it seems like the SIG is/was necked 10mm to 40S&W length.

The .45gap uses small pistol primers as does the .357sig. If you form .40sw brass to .357sig the result will be a case about .020" below SAAMI minimum. The 9x25 Dillon is based off the 10mm.

[Bent Ramrod]

GF had it in post #13. The Winchester Repeating Arms Co. .25-20 Single Shot was sometimes made for Large Rifle primers.

[Catshooter]

Most 45 GAP use smalls, but I have 49 rounds of it (S&B) that take large.


Cat

[Jbiker]

we agree, I've got some old 38 spl brass that is large primer, probably dates back to the 1930's.

[Whiterabbit]

so, we're agreed, 41 mag is the smallest that is ground-up all large, and 7.62x39 for smallest caliber? for a most-if-not-all brass large primer cartridge?

not just "hey, there was that one run that one time of special brass, but you'll never see it ever...." (which is why wildcats don't count)

[dtknowles]

I think 25 Rem is smaller than 7.62x39 and 10mm is smaller than 41 mag

Tim

[Whiterabbit]

oh cool, so 10mm is solidly predominantly large primer?

[ReloaderFred]

The 10mm is usually large pistol primed, but like I posted above, I've got about 500 rounds of it that are small pistol primed that I got from forum member Starreloader this past year, so it's out there. Or more correctly, it's in my shop.

Hope this helps.

Fred

[dudel]

Both cartridges are noted for accuracy, so how can you say they did it wrong? By what standard?

I converted all my 45 ACP to small primer. On my loads, in my guns, I find it a bit more consistent in velocity. Seems a bit more accurate; but I've not done extensive testing using a solid rest.

OTOH, I shoot my G38/G39 (small primer - 45GAP), more accurately than 45 ACP (small or large primer).


45GAP was originally designed with LP; but later moved to SP. Leaves more brass in the head and web for higher pressures. I love that round.

[salpal48]

There are 3 that come to mind that should be in The smallest caliber. 219 Donaldson wasp , 219 Zipper. 220 Weatherby Rocket.

[Whiterabbit]

oh, the wasp might take the top for everything. its like a rimmed 223 basically, but designed totally using a large rifle primer.

very interesting

[LeftyDon]

6.8 SPC is about as small in diameter as I've seen with large rifle primers. I believe Remington is the only brass with large rifle instead of small rifle primers in 6.8 SPC.

No doubt because they tooled up the 6.8 from their old 30 Remington brass.

[Gelandangan]

38-45 Clerke

And 50BMG/17 wildcat 8-)
http://www.ammo-one.com/Wildcat50to17.html