H and R misfires

[bearcove]

A friend has a 223 that misfires . looks like a light strike on the primer. What do I look for first.

[bearcove]

It's a handi, never had one, how does it break down. I'm aT/C guy so new ground for me

[Goatwhiskers]

Couple of options here. You could always send it in, they'll do it right but there is the time factor. If it's new I would definitely do that, they'll send you a paid shipping label for warranty work. Check the firing pin protrusion. Possible hammer spring weakness, easy to get a Wolf replacement. Installation is easier than you might think, disassembly is required. Go to the graybeard site under the H&R forums, there are FAQ that explain dis/reassembly, very easy to do, slave pins are required to reduce use of profanity. You can do a trigger job while you have it down if desired. Only do a very light stoning on sear notches as the case hardening is very thin. I better shut up and let you do your research, I could ramble all day. Love my Handis! GW

[CastingFool]

Not familiar with the H&R rifles, but you might try cleaning the action. A friend once bought a .22 Weatherby from another friend, because the rifle would misfire occasionally, specially in cold weather. Turned out that there was some cosmoline or similar material on the firing pin. Once that was removed, the rifle performed flawlessly, regardless of the temp. Just my nickle's worth.

[308w]

Another thing to look for is.... If someone has done some trigger work to lighten the pull this can make misfires and light primer strikes. The h&r's use a transfer bar in them to strike the firing pin, in other words the hammer does not hit the firing pin, it hits the transfer bar and this hits the firing pin kind of like a ruger blackhawk, If someone has stoned, lightened, or messed with the trigger pull, this can make the trigger pull lighter but it can also keep the transfer barr from moving all the way up far enough to hit the firing pin and cause the problems you describe.
One way to test for this is if you hold the trigger all the way back, and pull the hammer back all the way and let it go, if this stops the light strikes and it still has light strikes when you pull the trigger to drop the hammer, this tells you the trigger/transfer bar is not moving up behind the firing pin far enough.
If the trigger has not been "worked on" and you are getting light strikes I would send it back to have the factory look at it.

[fouronesix]

Besides basic mechanics of the rifle, might check the ammo. 223, especially pick-up stuff or bulk ammo, could have varying headspace. Or if reloaded, the sizing die could be setting back the shoulder more than the chamber likes.

Another possibility is a mis-match between primer pocket and primer where the primer is not fully bottomed-out thus absorbing some of the pin strike.

While it very well could be the rifle, checking the ammo wouldn't hurt.

[Mk42gunner]

What to check:

1. Broken firing pin -- had it happen once on a Model 158 from the '70's.

2. Broken transfer bar -- had three or four happen on at least three Model 158's (one .22 Hornet and two .30-30's) from the '70's and '80's and also on newer H&R/NEF shotguns. Last time I needed one I ordered two, if I can just find it when I need it...

3. Weak mainspring -- never had it happen, but possible.

Other than that, I would take fouonesix's advice and try a different lot of ammo.

Definitely make slave pins, and have the instructions printed out or on the screen while you are reassembling the action.

Robert

[shredder]

Something that happened to my handi rifle comes to mind. It did the light strikes and misfires after I had it for a while. What was happening is that mine had some slop around the firing pin hole. That allowed a tiny bit of primer metal to protrude into the hole, and when the action was opened it shaved a tiny crescent of primer metal off and it stayed in the firing pin hole. After a while these tiny flakes build up. Check it out and see if anything is in the firing pin channel.

[John Boy]

A friend has a 223 that misfires . looks like a light strike on the primer. What do I look for first.When was the last time it was cleaned and how thoroughly?

[Whiterabbit]

Something that happened to my handi rifle comes to mind. It did the light strikes and misfires after I had it for a while. What was happening is that mine had some slop around the firing pin hole. That allowed a tiny bit of primer metal to protrude into the hole, and when the action was opened it shaved a tiny crescent of primer metal off and it stayed in the firing pin hole. After a while these tiny flakes build up. Check it out and see if anything is in the firing pin channel.

very interesting. I have the same "issue", but the primer doesn't shave off in my gun. The action simply locks up. I have to pull the hammer and fire on the empty cartridge to break it free, then everything is OK.

OP, check pin protrusion. That is VERY EASY to change on the handi rifle. Just file the hammer at the engagement point on the transfer bar and you will reduce pin protrusion. File the hammer where it hits the frame and the pin will extend out. If it's within spec, your problem is elsewhere.

My problems were elsewhere, but checking and adjusting the pin protrusion was too easy not to check immediately.

[dualsport]

I sent one in to H&R recently for a similar problem in .223. They fixed it(an older gun) no charge, improved the trigger pull, and got it back to me right quick. I don't recall what they did but they did replace some of the innards according to the invoice/work order. I paid to mail it to them, not a lot of money. It's also a good opportunity to have an additional barrel fitted if you care to.

[Doc_Stihl]

I have an H&R 17 rimfire that will light fire EVERY time if you don't pull the trigger through. If you just barely break the trigger and stop pulling it hits light. If you pull and keep pulling, it fires.

[RPRNY]

I have an H&R 17 rimfire that will light fire EVERY time if you don't pull the trigger through. If you just barely break the trigger and stop pulling it hits light. If you pull and keep pulling, it fires.

Frustrating nevertheless, but that is an H&R design feature rather than malfunction. A full pull is required for the transfer bar to operate. Thank the lawyers...

Many "misfires" with the H&R or assumed "weak springs" are indeed down to this. Of course, breech loading single shots always work better with r rimmed cartridges than rimless, especially as H&R quality under Remington management hasn't been spotless!

[Jim Flinchbaugh]

I have a 7mm-08 that was FTF as well. The cure was to only neck size the brass. Touching the shoulder= excessive head space
(like a lot of people these days :) )

[Little Doc]

I bought a handi in 223. it developed the FTF problem. after trying all the suggested fixes I sent it back to Remington. When it was returned the firing pin was longer the transfer bar was longer so it stayed engaged with the hammer a tid bit longer. If I were you I would return it to the factory. The paperwork that was returned with mine showed all internal parts in the frame were replaced except the parts that locks the bbl in place. All was done at no charge. It now works just fine.
m

[725]

Longer firing pin needed. Not much but a smidgen.

[crashguy]

Funny ...I just sent my Handi in 357 back today. Had some FTF as well. Checked the firing pin protrusion it seemed kinda short compared to my other firearms. I played around and found that if I put something between the hammer and transfer bar ,then released the hammer, the firing pin protruded farther...... Whiterabbit In post #10 gave a good account of this, as well as a fix. Anyway the guys at customer service gave me a shipping label and a promise to get it fixed.

[lonewolf5347]

I had light strikes on my 38-55 B.C. I did change the hammer spring to a wolf HD but now and then a light primer strike.I will say the B.C. has about 800 rounds threw it from 2008 never had any problems with ignition.
I change primers change the hammer spring then decide not to play with it any longer I did return it to Remington.I will say turn around time 6 days they change all internals and the gun shoot fine only problem now it a 4 1/2lb pull compared to the factory 3 lbs when I first purchased the rifle.I will say the 4 plus pounds breaks clean like glass ,I am not going to mess with it.
I will say my 30-06 a week later I ran into the same problem light strikes,the made in 2005 again had a 3 lbs trigger pull .I also return it they reworked all parts got it back work perfect again 4 1/2 trigger breaks clean.
I thought by the time I by all the parts it would be cheaper just to return it flat rate box USPS 5.99

[44minimum]

My uncle has one that misfires. His solution- change ammunition. It doesn't like cheap ammo, but it works fine with other stuff.

[Rustyleee]

Also make sure your friend is shooting commercial .223 and not surplus 5.56. The military stuff has harder primers.

[dualsport]

Anyone get their Handi 7.62x39 to fire milsurp ammo?

[MT Gianni]

Anyone get their Handi 7.62x39 to fire milsurp ammo?

No, but it is a joy with cast 311466.

[crashguy]

Just thought I'd give an update. Got my 357 Handie back (7 days total) the sheet said they changed the hammer spring... but I measured the firing pin protrusion and it was @ .043 vs .036 when I sent it it . Ran about 50 rounds through and no mis-fires. A comparison of primer strikes before and after repair showed a noticeably deeper impression.

[jmort]

Good to know there is such excellent customer service under the Remington/Private Equity Co. umbrella.

[bearcove]

Thanks for the responses. Might buy it from him if I can figure out a fair price. He doesn't want to mess with it.

[bikerbeans]

Handi 223s & 7.62x39 are noted for not igniting milisurp ammo. They don't like the hard primers. Headspace on handloaded cartridges can also cause this problem. H&R also had to make a design change on the t-bar a few years back, you might have one of the bad T-bars in your rifle.

There is a way to solve the t-bar problem, permanently. You can buy the old style H&R hammer from Numrich and an new double coil hammer spring from Wolff and install them in your receiver (don't buy the spring from Numrich, as they are quite old). You will remove and discard the t-bar during this process. Information about this is available at graybeard in the H&R CF rifle forum, FAQs sticky thread.


BB

[tacklebury]

Wolf sells extra power springs also and there's a guide to installing stuff in the Perklo Trigger Job in the FAQ at Graybeards for how to disassemble and reassemble. 8)

[bearcove]

Got the rifle with 100+ rds that missfired and another 80 rds of american eagle that he tossed in cause he tried a few and they did the same. Going to work through the basic stuff and if it does like he says and misfires, send it back to H&R, add a barrel in the process. $120

Gonna give it to my son for a starter rifle.

[Jack Ryan]

I have an H&R Topper I'm starting this little "journey" on.

I just had it out today burning up a box of OLD junk 20's of all variations of bad. Had 2 out of the 25 I couldn't MAKE go off. Then I "recalled" something like that from a while back, but I REALLY LOVE SHOOTING THIS GUN. So I guess I'm going a little deeper in it now.

Compare the other 23 that all fired and the 2 that would not even after repeated attempts. The primer in dent appeared VERY slight on the two shells that didn't fire and pretty much normal on everything else.

Pulled the barrel off and inserted the shells for a look and they leave just a slight ridge look above barrel. Inserted and barrel closed it all appears a tight lock up. One of the two didn't want to eject so I knocked it out.

Previous fired shells all seemed to behave pretty similar.

Took the barrel off again. Cocked the hammer and slowly lowered while holding the barrel back and it looked like pretty darn good protrusion. Not like anything that should be a problem.

Looking like a "ammo" problem some how for now. I loaded the two problem children in to my Remington 870 one at a time and one fired, the other didn't. So what ever the problem is I threw those two in the trash so I don't repeat it in any reloads.

Tomorrow is another day but for this evening, "King, this case is closed."