Penetration in wet newsprint?

[JWFilips]

If one were to test some hollow point Cast Boolit loads in a .38 special , .357 mag and a 45 Auto using wet newsprint.... on average, How much thickness would be required to stop the projectiles. In essence, How large a stack would one need for testing? Thanks

[captaint]

If it were me, JW, I would give myself about 12" of wet paper. For a .45ACP, surely that would do it. Mike

[imashooter2]

If the newsprint is sufficiently wet, and if the hollow points expand, 12 - 18 inches should be adequate. My experience is that bullets penetrate less in newsprint than in gelatin.

It's best to carry the paper to the test location in a cooler full of water, remove and shoot ASAP.

[Outpost75]

Using the wet newspaper or phonebooks is really a nuisance unless you have a cattle trough to soak them in, so that they becomee totally saturated and swell up enough to break the binding on the phone books, and you also have dumpster collection for disposal of the mess created afterwards. Unless you have truckloads of phonebooks or newspaper I simply would not bother.

It is much simpler to build your own "Box of Truth" from dimension lumber. Build a trough 6 feet long, supported on its ends by sawhorses, then line up a row of 1/2 gallon or gallon milk jugs between the boards, shoot through them, count the number of jugs and you can recycle the shot water jugs afterwards. The water will make the range grass green. THAT's what I do.

[imashooter2]

Using the wet newspaper or phonebooks is really a nuisance unless you have a cattle trough to soak them in, so that they becomee totally saturated and swell up enough to break the binding on the phone books, and you also have dumpster collection for disposal of the mess created afterwards.

A cooler works well for soaking, but true words about the PITA factor.

[MtGun44]

In my experience, expect right at 1/2 of the penetration that you read reported in
ballistic gelatin. Most pistol rounds that expand will penetrate less than 13" in
gelatin, so about 6.5" in wet newspapers or phone books. I use about 10" unless
I plan on catching a .44 mag non-expanding boolit, then more than 18" would be
prudent. .38 Spl, 9mm or .357 expanding boolits, expect about 5-7 inches in wet
newsprint. RN .45 ACP will go deeper.

Bill

[High Desert Hunter]

I know my 454 with a hard cast solid penetrated 48" of wet newsprint mixed with several dry magazines, 44 went 36" and the 45 Colt made 34" with the same bullet the 454 used. I should try it with some 357 hollow points and solids to see the difference.

[w5pv]

I saw a demo on one of the sport-shooters channel of buck verses slug through the gelatin.It surprised me when the buck shot penetrated farther than the slug.This with a 410 but I don't remember if they were testing the Judge or if this was a long gun.

[Dave C.]

Years ago I shot a factory 30-30 170gr soft point and a hand loaded 38 spl 158 gr cast swc into
very wet wews print the 30-30 made it about 14". The 38 made it 25"!

Dave C.

[Larry Gibson]

I use 12 - 15" of soppy wet newsprint for hand guns. I always used a couple garbage bags in a box with the newsprint in to soak them. Overnight did the trick. Poured off excess water and then the bag/box was used to transport to test sight and back to garbage can or dumpster.

A suggestion; use a know quality factory expanding HP bullet with load as a control to see what your bullet/loads compare to both expansion wise and penetration. For example; I used Winchester or Federal 150/158 LSWCHP factory loads as a control for my HP'd 358477 and 358156 +P loads.

Larry Gibson

[quilbilly]

I do all my terminal ballistics test in wet phone books which are similar. For rifles I have found the minimum to be about 22 inches and for handgun, about 14 inches unless you are shooting a Contender.

[destrux]

180gr .40S&W loads coming out of a rifle will go through 14" of wet-pack, and the 3/4" plywood backer I had behind it. From a pistol, my .45ACP 200gr and 9mm 115gr loads stopped around 13" and 10" respectively.

[fredj338]

Most handgun HP will stop inside 12" of wetpack. Some of the heavy/large caliber ones may need more but 18"-20" stops just about anything that expands, rifle or handgun. Solids, yep, you will need a lot of wetpack to recover them, more than 36" in most cases.

[JWFilips]

Changing the subject to inches of water: Is Penetration in water more or less then wet pack? Is the hydraulic pressure of water a greater stopping force for HP boolits ?

[imashooter2]

No experience with water except shooting off the diving board straight down into the deep end of an in ground pool... 12 feet was adequate to stop anything I owned. [smilie=1:

[Outpost75]

Horizontal water tank we used for bullet recovery in crime lab was 1 metre wide, 3 metres long and 2 metres deep, and would stop anything short of. 50 BMG. Angle of bullet entry must be sharper than 20 degrees to prevent riccochets out of the tank, which had thin 16 ga. sheet steel splash cover.

Handguns were fixtured on an angled rest and shot downward through a 3" pipe at 60 degrees down angle. If bullet hit bottom of tank and deformed a repeat shot was done at 30 degs, which was the angle normally used for rifles, bisecting the corners of the tank. Recover slug with broomstick with pipe cap screwed to the end, with cavity filled with golfball sizex wad of Ductseal.

[nekshot]

I use 5 gal buckets to put the phone books in to soak over nite. Leave room for expansion or the books will get tight in the bucket.

[fredj338]

Changing the subject to inches of water: Is Penetration in water more or less then wet pack? Is the hydraulic pressure of water a greater stopping force for HP boolits ?

More in water. I find penetration in water about twice that of gel & wetpack about 2/3 less than gel, YMMV. I find water quite "hard" on bullets. A HP that expands well in water may not in wetpack or gel. I find proper wetpack to expand a bullet almost identical to gel & even what I have found in live game. This is a 210gr NP from my 338-06. tell me which one came from wetpack & one from an elk size Kudu?
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v703/fredj338/210GRNP.jpg (http://smg.photobucket.com/user/fredj338/media/210GRNP.jpg.html)

[DanWalker]

I will guess wetpack is the bullet on the right...

[MtGun44]

I find the same thing as far as expansion. Game recovered bullets look exactly like wetpack - unless you hit a bone.

Bill

[fredj338]

I will guess wetpack is the bullet on the right...
Well you had a 50-50 shot. It is the bullet on the left, the right one was from a kudu bull shot n an oblique frontal chest shot. The bullet was recovered behind the last rib on the far side, about 24" of penetration.
I test all my hunting & SD bullets in wetpack. If they work within the impact vel range I am shooting, then I feel good about field performance. Bal gel would be nice, but I find it diff to work with, wetpack is easy & repeatable.