Reformed .300 Sav case sticks in 99

[Dan Cash]

Moderators: We don't really have a subforum on forming cases so since my problem is with a Sav. 99, I am here. Feel free to move is you desire.

Problem: .300 Savage cases reformed from .308 commercial and 7.62 NATO stick in chamber of my rifle when fired with PP Cast bullets. The .308 case is resized in a .300 Sav. fl die. Then the case is pushed through a .45 ACP carbide die to remove any bulge at the case head. The case is trimmed to length and the neck is turned so the case wall at the neck is .015, reduced from .017 of the .308s. the .015 thickness matches the thickness of my RP commercial .300 brass.

My load in commercial .300 Sav is a 180 grain 311291 sized and patched to .311-.312 over 40 grains of Reloader 15. Accuracy is good and the rifle unlocks and extracts with no effort and no pressure sign on the primer.

Using the reformed brass with the smae bullet but charge reduced 3 grains in consideration of thicker .308 and mil-spec brass, the bullets group the same as from the .300 brass but extraction is difficult in the extreme. There is no pressure sign on the primer and the case head will mike out the same as the .300 Sav Cases.

I am stumped. Suggestions please.

[mj2evans]

I don't have an answer but interested to hear on this as I am forming 35 Rem brass from 308 (lathe rim, modified Lee sizer, etc). Still have not fired a round so wondering if I will have your same issue.

[BruceB]

My .35 Remington cases formed from .308 and 7.62 NATO function fine in a 1951 Marlin 336.

[skeettx]

OK, three ideas

One the neck it too thick and needs reaming
Yes I know you have reamed it, but take ONE case and ream 2 more thousands.

Two, Run the case into a 308 Small Base dies and try again.
Yes I know you ran it into a 45ACP die, but try

Three, One other trick, take a spare #3 shell holder and gently grind .003 off the face so the case will go up
farther into the 300 Sav die. Size and try.

Hope this helps, and please report back
Mike

p.s. reasoning - the brass of the 308 Mil is thicker and does not shrink as much after firing, so you need
a smaller dimension before you start so the less shrinkage does not cause it to stick

[starmac]

I would be curious if a guy was to use a small base die, if it would cure your problem?

[45 2.1]

1. See if one of your PP boolits slide back in a fired reformed case.
2. Reduce your load another two grains and try again.

[Dan Cash]

OK, three ideas

One the neck it too thick and needs reaming
Yes I know you have reamed it, but take ONE case and ream 2 more thousands.

Two, Run the case into a 308 Small Base dies and try again.
Yes I know you ran it into a 45ACP die, but try

Three, One other trick, take a spare #3 shell holder and gently grind .003 off the face so the case will go up
farther into the 300 Sav die. Size and try.

Hope this helps, and please report back
Mike

p.s. reasoning - the brass of the 308 Mil is thicker and does not shrink as much after firing, so you need
a smaller dimension before you start so the less shrinkage does not cause it to stick

Mike and Starmac, thanks. I'll try this out in the AM. Not too sure about the small base die which I don't have but after a trip through the Dillon .45ACP die, the case head mikes .468 or so.

[Dan Cash]

45 2.1, will check it out. Thanks for the offerings everyone.

[sav300]

300 savage brass is scarce here in oz,I anneal and re-size 250 savage brass with no problems for both my 300`s

[Dan Cash]

300 savage brass is scarce here in oz,I anneal and re-size 250 savage brass with no problems for both my 300`s

If .300 Sav. is scarce as hen's teeth, .250-3000 is as scarce as hen's molars. I have been making .250 brass from .22-250 for several years with no problems but you have given me an idea. Thanks.

[Larry Gibson]

Concur with 45 2.1

Reduce the load. The reformed cases are thicker, especially the 7.62 cases, and the load you are using is top end for a 180 gr bullet in the standard 300 Savage cases. I suggest dropping 5 gr at least and work back up.

Understand the M99 does not have any cam action to break a case loose and partially extract it like a bolt action does when opening the action. Thus with the high psi load the case does not spring back as much and is pretty much fire formed tightly to the chamber of the M99. When opening the action to extract that fired case the case must move forward ever so slightly in the chamber. This because as the top rear of the bolt cams down the front bottom of the bolt pushes forward on the bottom of the fired case. If the case is a tight fit in the chamber after firing you have to overcome that by compressing the brass or pushing the case forward to open the bolt. If the case is a tight fit there is no room to move forward so compressing the brass is the option and that can be difficult as you mention. Reducing the pressure is the answer. Annealing the cases after forming might also help.

Larry Gibson

[gnoahhh]

I think Larry nailed it, as usual!

I too have re-formed .300 Savages from 7.62 military brass, and aside from trimming and neck turning, haven't had any issues, even with the base diameters. Then again, my loads are pretty sedate for I never ever feel the need to wander into the realm of max or near max loads. (As an aside, I have never in the course of loading for a pile of Savage lever guns felt the need to resort to a small base die. Ever.)

The brass is out there. An intrepid soul should be able to find some even if it means begging on the want ads of various web sites. Due to the hassle/labor of making it from .308s I view that as being a last ditch effort.

[376Steyr]

When you run the resized cases through a 45 die to de-bulge, that brass has to go somewhere. I suspect it might be messing up the body taper and shoulder of the resized case. Try sizing it again after the neck turning and trimming.

[azrednek]

The 99's are notorious for having a weak extractor. At least that is what a gunsmith told me. After he polished the chamber on my 308 Model 99 with loads 90% of published max I quit having extraction problems. Factory 308 but not mil-surp 7.62 ammo always extracted without a problem even before I had the chamber polished.

[Dan Cash]

After tinkering with this problem a bit this morning inbetween plowing snow drifts, I conclude that excessive pressure is the problem. Alliant shows 43 gr. of R15 as max for a speer 180 gr jacketed bullet. My .300 brass does wonderfully with 40 gr. of R15 and I had already backed off to 37 gr. but evidently that is too much. Amazing as the primers (Remington) are very round on the edges and the firing pin dent is rounded as well. I tried one case with 10 g. of 2400 and no extraction problem, so I conclude and concur with Larry G and others that it is a pressure problem with the thicker brass. When weather clears, I will try something around 30-32 gr. of R15 with that reformed brass.
Thanks, every one.
Dan

[robroy]

Glad for the info in this post. I'm fortunate to have 100 pieces of new in the white boxes win brass, but before I found that I bought a bunch of brass that had been reformed from anything and everything that shared the .473 rim diameter. I haven't loaded any of the 300s yet but may just stick to the factory brass.

[TNsailorman]

I have traveled this road with my .300 Savage(no longer have it). I started out using nothing but civilian .308 brass and had slight sticking with them. I had a set of .308 dies (RCBS) that were small base dies. I decided to run the .308 cases through the small base sizer and them convert them by running them through the .300 die. I trimmed them to .004 over minimum length. I inside neck reamed the case by using a special .3062 Forster neck reamer. They worked like a charm. I then tried some 7.62x51 LC military brass and used the same procedure. No go. I then switched to the regular .308 inside neck reamer and they not only fit and extracted, but turned out some of the most accurate loads the .300 ever gave me. Now this was with jacketed bullets--not cast. I don't know what difference, if any, cast bullets would pose. You have been given some good advice on where to start trailing your rabbit, its just a matter of running it to ground by trying one things at a time and in small load batches. I would suggest that if you can find one of the old Forster combination Headspace/case length gages in .300 Savage, grab it. I let mine go with the Savage when I sold it and wish now I had kept the gage. They are hard to find. Good luck and keep us updated you your progress. james

[Dan Cash]

It was -13 degrees with a 20 mph wind today so I did not do much shooting. As for sticking cases, I am of the opinion that my load was too hot. The Savage 99 is quick to let you know when you are over its limit.

For my converted cases, I had reduced the charge 7% more or less from the 40 grains of R15 used in the commercial .300 cases. I guess it was not enough though I could not believe it at the moment. skeettx suggested turning the necks andother .002 which I did and following Larry Gibson's advice I dropped the charge radically to 30 grains and fired a test cartridge. No stick. I measured case expansion ring and it remained at .468 as it was when loaded. I went to 32 and 34 grains of R15 with the same case and still no stick and pressure ring at case head is still .468 after firing.

With the 9 reformed cases I am currently using, I will shoot a series of 3 shot test loads working up from 30 to 34 grains in 2 grain increments then continue increasing the charge by 1 grain increments, checking accuracy and velocity until those two points are satisfied or extraction becomes difficult. Thanks to all for your advice, I'll let you all know how it works out.

[gnoahhh]

Sounds like you got it licked.

-15º? Snow? Yikes! It's 52º right now outside my window.

[robroy]

Dan how far are you from Clearview? I've got a cousin that used to live on the Montana side of town. He moved up river a bit and is between Savage and Sidney now. Sorry Hijack

[seaboltm]

I had a similar problem with LC 7.62 brass that would not fit in a tight ar-10 chamber. I had to switch to small base dies, as has been mentioned here already. The small base dies solved my problem.

[OverMax]

I've been shooting reformed 308 store bought brass thru my 300s for quite a few years. Never had any trouble with the way I case formed them. As a matter of fact I like reformed federal or winchester 308 brass better than factory 300 brass. I don't know it their still available. But years ago I bought a set of RCBS 300 Sav small base resizing dies. A most helpful die set to say the least.

[Dan Cash]

Dan how far are you from Clearview? I've got a cousin that used to live on the Montana side of town. He moved up river a bit and is between Savage and Sidney now. Sorry Hijack

Roy,
Not sure where Clearview is. It does not show on my maps. There is a Fairview north of Sidney while Savage is south west of Sidney. Sidney is about 80 or 90 miles north and 10 miles west of me.

18 below with wind this afternoon so resolving the proper and effective load for the reformed .300 cases is on hold. Good Lord it is cold.

[robroy]

I had a brain fart and typed the wrong name. Fairview it is.

[grunt37]

Watch the charge in military brass. I think they usually run at similar pressure at a full grain less in 7.62×51 NATO headstamp brass.

[LuckySavage]

Moderators: We don't really have a subforum on forming cases so since my problem is with a Sav. 99, I am here. Feel free to move is you desire.

Problem: .300 Savage cases reformed from .308 commercial and 7.62 NATO stick in chamber of my rifle when fired with PP Cast bullets. The .308 case is resized in a .300 Sav. fl die. Then the case is pushed through a .45 ACP carbide die to remove any bulge at the case head. The case is trimmed to length and the neck is turned so the case wall at the neck is .015, reduced from .017 of the .308s. the .015 thickness matches the thickness of my RP commercial .300 brass.

My load in commercial .300 Sav is a 180 grain 311291 sized and patched to .311-.312 over 40 grains of Reloader 15. Accuracy is good and the rifle unlocks and extracts with no effort and no pressure sign on the primer.

Using the reformed brass with the smae bullet but charge reduced 3 grains in consideration of thicker .308 and mil-spec brass, the bullets group the same as from the .300 brass but extraction is difficult in the extreme. There is no pressure sign on the primer and the case head will mike out the same as the .300 Sav Cases.

I am stumped. Suggestions please.

Prolly that nasty Savage rifle. You should consider selling it to me, and I'll try and deal with the significant brass issues you are having.

[CJR]

Dan Cash,

I shoot a lot of 300 Savage PP and have a few comments. The 300 Savage chamber is cut with a cylindrical section, just before the forcing cone, of 0.3095"D, i.e. SAAMI specs. Therefore, a PPCB diameter of 0.3095"D or greater will cause the PP to be cut or wedged into this cylinder section. Inaccuracy or higher pressure can result. My PPCB diameters are 0.308" to 0.309"D. I'd suggest a "pound-swage" to make sure what your chamber's cylindrical diameter is. Likewise, I use RCBS small base dies and progressive powders, i.e. W748, W760.

Best regards,

CJR

[beroen]

I know this is a old thread but I am trying to find out max boolet length for 300sav in a 99 savage. There is a guy with some 30 cal 147 gr m 80 ball bullets. I am trying to figure out if I can use them to reload and have them fit in the rotary mag and not be in the powder of the case.

[OverMax]

Try annealing your 308 brass before their resizing. Btw I shoot once fired than annealed & resized 308 Federal brass in my 300s and I actually prefer it over factory original 300 Sav {Winchester brand and Herter's brass} I also have. But never get around using.

[Dan Cash]

In my EG Savage, I load those bullets to a length of 2.6 inches and they work well. I used R15 when it was available. I can not speak to other powers now available.
I know this is a old thread but I am trying to find out max boolet length for 300sav in a 99 savage. There is a guy with some 30 cal 147 gr m 80 ball bullets. I am trying to figure out if I can use them to reload and have them fit in the rotary mag and not be in the powder of the case.

[Dan Cash]

CJR,
Here it is a year later and because of Overmax's post, I have seen your reply. I am certain that all my sticking cases were from excess pressure. Cutting the powder charge with converted cases solved the sticking problem but accuracy went to 10 or 12 inch groups. Powder charges had to be reduced by about 4 grains to produce a load that did not stick the case.

I put that project on hold for the winter and have not gotten back to it yet. I did a pound cast of the chamber throat but don't remember anything unusual about it. When I take it up again, I will cast the chamber again and try some of your suggested powders as I surely like the rifle and would shoot it more if I could make pp cast work.