Full bucket of stick-on weights. What the heck to do with it?

[fireflyfather]

Title says it all. I have one muzzle-loader friend, but I doubt he needs 80-100lbs of the stuff. (I will give him some, of course). What to do with the rest of it? I'm almost out of clip on weights to clean up into ingots (have a nice little stash of clip-on ingots...enough for about 5-6 years), so now I have this bucket staring me in the face, just begging to be alloyed into something worth shooting in .38spl or 7.62x54R. I've priced 50/50 solder at about $13/lb at the local hardware place.

[mike in co]

smelt it(outside..the glue/backing make a mess). flux. cast your favotire ingots.
if you are using water dropped ww for boolits, consider doing 50/50 ww/soft lead.....it has been posted on here that it works quite well....doubles the milage of your ww's.

mike in co

[Jim]

Get a 1 lb. roll of lead free solder and mix it 1:20 and water drop it.

[snowtigger]

Get a 1 lb. roll of lead free solder and mix it 1:20 and water drop it.
Go to a plumbing supply store and ask for 95/5 solder. It is 95% tin and 5% antimony.Why pay $13.00 a pound for lead/
Some of the lead free solders contain copper. Small amounts, but it might affect casting....

[Blackhawk Convertable]

So in the future, I should just throw the stick-ons in with the regular clip-on wheel weights and use it up that way???

I separated them out because everyone here was saying to do so. But, I don't shoot C&B. I'm just a SASS shooter looking to do 2 things:

1. shoot more and cheaper.
2. Keep busy doing something gun related during the long winters

I have a 20# pot coming in a couple of days. If I make the stick-ons into ingots, what is the proper ratio of WW's to Stick-ons? I should mention that I just melted down my WW's into 122# of ingots. I have about 11# of stick-ons and a coffee can with 22# of lead plate, slugs and such.

[shotstring]

You want to initially seperate your stick-ons from the clip type because if you don't, the hardness of your alloy ingots will be all over the place, depending on which type of WW that particular bucket had the most of. Once they have been seperated, you can then mix the straight soft lead from the stick-ons or from other sources INTELLEGENTLY with your wheelweights, in the desired proportions.

You can purchase some linotype either from Ebay or wherever to mix with the soft lead, or simply do WW's as was suggested in this thread. If you wish to add a 5% tin mix only, as was suggested in this thread, I would look back through the posts to find some of the cheaper sources for tin suggested by the members here. I think we have a member still selling pure tin at $5 a pound here as well.

[Ken O]

I make ingots of the stick on weights, then alloy them with linotype, 4-1 (lead-lino), makes excellent pistol bullets.

[fireflyfather]

1. Is the 5% tin enough to harden up stick-on weights for .38 spl loads?

2. Who is selling pure tin at that price?!?!? I want some!

3. Thanks again. If I can find some cheap/easy way to alloy this stuff, then I will add about 60% to my current lead stash.

4. Also, for the stick-on weights, will a camp stove with some concrete & bricks around a dutch oven do it? I've had good luck with clip-ons. Otherwise I need the turkey fryer.

[38 Super Auto]

2. Who is selling pure tin at that price?!?!? I want some!

I'd check your local scrap metal dealer. The metal dude here in town sells "hard lead" for $.65/lb: their hard lead is typically close to linotype in hardness. He also had some sticks of pure tin for $2.40/lb.

If you check around, you might find a deal. :)

[mtgrs737]

Get some linotype and alloy it at 25% linotype to 75% lead for great pistol bullet alloy.

[Blackhawk Convertable]

I got a couple of the 6" electric range elements and used a deep fry pan to do 150+# over the weekend. Worked great! I did use a Mapp gas torch a couple of times to hurry things along. But all in all, the range elements were plenty. Of course, they are 220v and melted the lead WW's nicely. Pure lead would melt even better...

[shotstring]

If you want to PM the member that had $5 tin, it was vp14664.

[Sundogg1911]

I never seperate the stick on WW's just melt it all together and it's fine. But then again I don't usually have enough of 'em that it matters. I just do random hardness tests on the ingots and add Lino accordingly.

[fireflyfather]

I get about 25-40% stick on weights by volume. Two full buckets of WW has netted me about 2/3 of a bucket of stick ons. In my limited inquiries in the SD area, sources of tin and type metal are few and far between (and $$$).

Edited: Found a source of 95/5 solder at $9.95/lb (shipping unknown). Cheaper than the 50/50 stuff at Dixieline. What ratio of 95/5 solder to wheel weights you all recommend? 24/1 of weights/solder seems to give 95/3.8/0.2 % of lead/tin/antimony.

Here's the link if any of you need that solder: http://www.pexsupply.com/categories.asp?cID=430&brandid=

[KYCaster]

That sounds like a dern good price to me. The last time I asked at the local plumbing wholesaler it was ~$13.00...and they only had three lbs. of 95Sn/5Sb. The rest of their stock was Sb free with Cu and Ag making up the 5%. Useing enough to add 2% Sn to your WW probably would not add enough Cu to matter, but I dislike paying for something that adds no value to the finished product.

If they will ship in a USPS flat rate box then the $3.00 difference per lb. would make a five lb. order look attractive. I think I'll give them a call.

Thanks Firefly
Jerry

[fireflyfather]

$10.74 USD - UPS Ground

Cost to my address in SoCal for 5lbs. That's enough for about 120lbs @ 5% tin net. For 2.5% tin, that would last for 240lbs....2 buckets, @ about $0.01 per round, assuming the stickies were free (I reckon my cost for WW as [total cost/lbs of clip on WW]. Any stickies are "free" for my accounting purposes. Even so, with the clip ons, I am averaging about $0.25/lb.

[johnly]

I made some XRF measurements on a bucket of wheelweights from the local Les Schwab tire store, and the stick on weights were almost pure lead, while the clip ons were all over the map as far as alloy.

Toss them all in a Dutch oven, turn the burner on high, and you'll end up with some good casting lead.

John

[Ricochet]

Fireflyfather, I think there's seldom anything to gain by going over 1% tin, if you're also using antimony to harden the alloy. Blackpowder shooters using binary lead-tin alloys will disagree. If you're hardening with antimony, tin is only there to enhance mould fillout. It actually works against age hardening of quenched metal. (And if you're quenching, returns diminish sharply past 6% antimony.) Very small amounts of antimony do harden the metal significantly after quenching and aging, if there's not much tin in the mix.

[fireflyfather]

Ricochet: From what I've seen on the antimony-man site, alloying with antimony is a pain in the butt. There doesn't seem to be enough antimony in the 95/5 solder to be workable at the 1% tin level. Following your advice, I'd have to purchase and alloy my own antimony, no?

How does one go about doing that? What "recipe" so to speak for non-magnum loads? Maybe gas checked Ed Harris "the load" rifle loads?

[Ricochet]

I wouldn't dream of alloying with pure antimony, but blending in some stuff that's already got it in it works well.

I bought a bunch of the "Plus Metal" that wiljen ran a group buy on recently, to take care of my large amount of soft lead.

I find that when I mix it in with random scrap like sewer pipe joints, there's enough alloy in it to quench harden. Not really hard, but on the order of air cooled wheelweights. Do what John said above, throw 'em in and melt 'em with some clip on weights, and you'll get good bullets. I do all my dropping into water, which is why I keep going back to talking about quenching and aging behavior. It's a lot easier to water drop than to collect boolits on a towel on a table.

I think "The Load" of 13 grains of Red Dot is too fast in the pressure rise for best results with cast, though others will disagree. Drop that down to 10 grains or less and you'll probably get better results.

[hammerhead357]

Well I have been keeping mine seperate for quite sometime. Today it was cool and breezy here in south Texas and so rather than sitting in the house watching the tube with everyone else I decided to smelt them down.
I had 2 containers of them so I drug out the smaller of my two smelters and fired it up. I had to erect a make shift wind break out of plywood to help protect the turkey burner. Man those stick on weights sure smoke and stink but I dumped on a 3 lb. coffee can of new cat litter this really helped. After everything was melted and up to 750 degrees I skimmed the cat litter off and fluxed with old bullet lube.
Well I ended up with 26 ingots that weigh 4.5 lbs. each. I will have a long supply of soft lead for casting soft nosed bullets. I was going to post some pictures but for some unknown reason my didgital camera is turning out pictures that are to large even in vga mode.
Wes

[Ricochet]

Put 'em on Photobucket and they'll automatically resize to a decent size.

[hammerhead357]

Ricochet, I tried that and even just using the copy and paste it wouldn't work oh well I'll try later. When I have more time and patience...Both are running thin I have to get up at 4:30 in order to be at work at 6:00 and have had a house full most of the day. Thats the reason for smelting the stick ons......Wes

[Tom W.]

If you're near a sawmill, perhaps they can steer you to a supplier of Nickel Babbitt, which is mostly tin with very little else in it.It melts at a low temperature, alloys well with the lead, and will last a long time, given the fact that the ingots are about 8 lbs. each. I've been using it for about 20 years now with no ill effects to my firearms. It makes very hard bullets by itself, although they are considerably lighter than what the mold is supposed to cast, but mixed with the w/w or pb, the bullets are normal weight, and still rather hard.

[fireflyfather]

*Sigh* I am not interested in water quenching at all. Sorry. Just not my thing. It won't work for my setup/situation. I don't have access to that "plus metal", and I am looking for a way to use these stickies without diluting my clip on weights. I guess I am going to have to scrounge for type metal. I would like to have at the most three types of ingots lying around. One for clip on weights (for air cooled bullets), one for pure lead, and one for alloying the pure lead into suitable casting alloy. I am trying to keep it simple.

I do NOT want to:
1. mix clip ons with stickies without something else to up the hardness.
2. water quench for any reason.

From what I understand, using just tin and lead will not allow them to air harden to the point that they are useable for cast bullets. What are my options?

[imashooter2]

From what I understand, using just tin and lead will not allow them to air harden to the point that they are useable for cast bullets. What are my options?

Huh? 16:1 lead:tin will give you 11 BHN, an alloy well suited for a lot of handgun applications.

[BAGTIC]

I sort out my stick-ons and when I get enough I use them to cast split-shot fishing weights.

[trooperdan]

Guys, sorry I'm late on this but I want to caution that some stick-on weights are the dreaded zinc! I've found quite a few, most, if not all, have been barked ZN and are easy to find, if you hand-sort the haul. Just be careful out there, you hear? :)

[shotstring]

I've been running into a lot of the zinc stick-ons as well trooperdan. Fortunately, so far they have been easy to identify because they are slightly smaller, more of a bronze tint to the color and they "clink" when you tap them on the sidewalk. Was thinking of having my wife make jewelry from them.:idea:

[twotoescharlie]

I recently got some stick ons with a bucket of WW. noticed some were very hard and a magnet would stick to them. Is this the dreaded zinc weights?

TTC

[imashooter2]

No, those would be steel.

[trooperdan]

TwoToes, no, the zinc isn't magnetic so those are likely harmless steel.. melt away!

[Just Duke]

Guys, sorry I'm late on this but I want to caution that some stick-on weights are the dreaded zinc! I've found quite a few, most, if not all, have been barked ZN and are easy to find, if you hand-sort the haul. Just be careful out there, you hear? :)



What will happen if you melt the zinc weight in with the stick -ons?

[Calamity Jake]

NO zink in your casting alloy. PERIOD

[B747]

What will happen if you melt the zinc weight in with the stick -ons?

Not anything good --- save yourself a lot of problems by turning your heat source way down as soon as most of the wheel weights have melted and skim any zinc ones off along wit the clips.

You have a pretty large temperature range to work with.
The WW's will be molten at just over 500 F.
Zinc has a melting temp of over 780 F.

If you turn the burner way down as soon as the WW's melt and skim the Zinc ones off with the clips and crud you won't get near a temp high enough to melt zinc.

[fireflyfather]

or just skim off the unmelted stuff quickly. It's not that hard.

[Wayne Smith]

One other, so far unmentioned source of tin is pewter, the stuff you can eat off of. It's sometimes available at yard sales.

[Just Duke]

Not anything good --- save yourself a lot of problems by turning your heat source way down as soon as most of the wheel weights have melted and skim any zinc ones off along wit the clips.

You have a pretty large temperature range to work with.
The WW's will be molten at just over 500 F.
Zinc has a melting temp of over 780 F.

If you turn the burner way down as soon as the WW's melt and skim the Zinc ones off with the clips and crud you won't get near a temp high enough to melt zinc.

Thanks for the heads up on the zinc guys. Rangerrick called me a little while ago and told me the same thing. He says the zinc causes porosity in the bullets. i.e. little pinholes.

[MN91311]

Guys, sorry I'm late on this but I want to caution that some stick-on weights are the dreaded zinc! I've found quite a few, most, if not all, have been barked ZN and are easy to find, if you hand-sort the haul. Just be careful out there, you hear? :)

I find two types of stickon WW.....

1) the unfinished, soft, easily-bent lead, which are pure..... these I sort and keep separate

2) the painted type, which are very hard. Some of the painted ( coated ) types ar marked Zn, and some are not. I hand-sort everything, so I put these hard ones on the side, and later use cutting pliers to try and cut into them. The ones too hard to dent with the pliers are either zinc or steel. Doesn't matter which, both go into the trash.

No zinc in the ingots this way.

[Bob Krack]

I don't know that I know what I am talking about but for sure, zinc vapors will cause serious health problems the same day as the exposure. The redeeming issue is that when zinc vaporizes, it gives off a light blue smoke and gives you a sickening sweet taste.

Look up zinc poisoning, be aware that the vapors are thick and noxious. Much harder to clear and much more dangerous short term. A good idea for boolit casters is a yearly blood test for heavy metals.

By the way, should you be exposed to zinc vapors, drink a pint of milk for some medical relief.

Vic

[Blackhawk Convertable]

A good rule of thumb is to avoid ALL vapors when dealing with metal. This includes, but is not exclusive to, Lead, Zinc, galvanized steel, etc.

[Newtire]

I think "The Load" of 13 grains of Red Dot is too fast in the pressure rise for best results with cast, though others will disagree. Drop that down to 10 grains or less and you'll probably get better results.

I will 2nd the charge weight of 13 gr. Red Dot being a tad too high for cast but jacketted works fine. I stick to 10-11 gr. of Red Dot.