Load levels is M95 Mauser (Mexican) re-barreled ot .308

[DrBill33]

Acquired a re-barreled Mexican Mauser 95. Re-barreled in .308WIN. Head space has checked out (gunsmith). Now finishing a left-hand stock for a right-hand action.

My question is in regards to load levels.
Does anyone know to what level this action can be loaded?

I will be loading cast (what else!!!??!!!). However, I also would like to load some FMJ's (distance shooting).

All responses will be most appreciated!

[Larry Gibson]

Who made the action, Loewe, DWM, etc.?

You will see 2 types of pressure figures; CUP and PSI. CUP is the older method using a copper crusher and PSI of today is with peizo-transducers or strain gauges. The CUP (SAAMI) us figure is 45,000 CUP and many use the older term psi. Some will say Mauser designed the action to "only" 45,000 psi.......which is not the case at all. The lower modern psi (peizo-transducer/strain gauge) measurements lists the US (SAAMI) commercial standard MAP (maximum Average Pressure) at 51,000 psi. The European CIP standard MAP for the 7x57 is 57,000 psi. Probably a good bet that any 7x57 ammo fired in that action previously in Mexico met European CIP standards and not the downloaded US SAAMI standards for pressure.

I've measured the psi with a strain gauge (M43 Oehler PBL) in my Chilean M95 7x57 using Winchester, Remington and Hornady commercial ammunition and several different lots of milsurp ammo from some DWM 1918 stuff to some Spanish 1950 and '51 ammo. The psi(M43) measured from a low of 45,200 to a high of 62,900 (some pretty hot stuff!). The M95 is still going strong though I don't shoot that hot stuff anymore.

Now I also have a Spanish M95 action (Oveido 1928) that I've shot out 2 barrels on chambered in .308W most of which was US M80 7.62 NATO ammunition. It now has another barrel but is chambered for my own .308 CBC cartridge. You will probably hear all sorts of horror stories about set back lugs and "blown up" rifles. Yes some Spanish M93 actions have had set back lugs but little is really known about the ammo used to do such. The Spanish FR7s and M1916s are barreled and chambered for 7.62 NATO cartridges and may also be used with the CETME cartridge. You will hear many quote Kuhnhausen that they were chambered for the lower pressure CETME cartridge but if you can read Spanish I can post the Spanish manual that tells what ammo to use in them.....kind of straight from the horses mouth so to speak.

You are also going to hear about ungodly psi's of 7.62 NATO ammunition and .308W ammunition and not to shoot one or the other etcetera.......I have also measured the psi of a lot of commercial .308W and 7.62 NATO ammunition. While the SAAMI MAP is 60,000 psi for the .308W most commercial 150 - 180 gr loads I have tested of various makes (Winchester, Remington, Federal, Wolf, S&B and a couple others) have average psi's in the 55 - 58,000 range. Numerous lots of M80 7.62 NATO from many countries have average psi's of 42 - 62,000 psi with most in the 52 - 58, psi range.

So what is "safe" in your rifle? Most any cast bullet load published by a reputable company will be safe. If you load medium to heavy cast bullets with medium burning powders you will find accuracy will go south long before pressure becomes a problem. With the fmj bullets I would simply use a good medium burning powder such as 4895, AA2230, H335, RL7 and Varget loading the 145 - 150 gr fmj's to 2750 fps (assuming a 22" barrel minimum). With those powders holding the chronographed velocity to those levels the psi should not be a problem for the M95 action if it is in good condition. Since you don't mention shooting factory or milsurp through it then I won't advise there. I will say it should be a very good cast bullet rifle.

Larry Gibson

[Bret4207]

Pretty much anything sane with cast will be fine.

[UBER7MM]

"....Now I also have a Spanish M95 action (Oveido 1928) that I've shot out 2 barrels on chambered in .308W most of which was US M80 7.62 NATO ammunition. It now has another barrel but is chambered for my own .308 CBC cartridge....."
Larry Gibson

Larry,

Can you elaborate on the 308 CBC cartridge? It sounds interesting. Thank you in advance.

[Larry Gibson]

The 308 CBC is the .308W/7.62 NATO case with the should set back so the neck is '06 length. Case oal is 2.0" and case capacity equals the 30-40s. I was looking to push the 311284 to 2200 fps with 100 % load density of 4895. Super accuracy was guaranteed because I had a brand new 2 groove '03A3 barrel that all the "experts" said would be the cat's meow.........well that was before I understood the RPM threshold with a 10" twist barrel. I've given up on the 311284 as it didn't shoot for beans above 1900 fps and use the 311299 and the 31291. Both do okay at 2100 fps but stellar accuracy? Well that only comes down in the 1800 - 1950 fps right under the RPM threshold.....fathom that..........were I to do it again it would have a 12 or 13" twist barrel..........

Photo shows the 308 CBC on the left with the parent .308W on the right.

Larry Gibson

89342

[DrBill33]

Thanks The Mexican M95 is actually a small ring Mauser 98. No like the Spanish, et.al.
From what yo all have suggested, I will begin mild and work my way up.

[Larry Gibson]

Thanks The Mexican M95 is actually a small ring Mauser 98. No like the Spanish, et.al.
From what yo all have suggested, I will begin mild and work my way up.

That particular model designation always causes some confusion as Mexico used it for both types of actions. I've a SR (M98) M95 also that I rebarreled with Star 25" .308W barrel and shot it out years ago. Since I have rebarreled it with a milsurp 6.5 Swede barrel and it is still going strong. The action should do very well with standard .308W or 7.62 NTO level loads. Any sane cast will also be just fine in it.

Larry Gibson

[Dutchman]

Thanks The Mexican M95 is actually a small ring Mauser 98. No like the Spanish, et.al.

Ah...um... the M95 stands for 1895. That's 3 years prior to 1898 when the 98 Mauser action came out.

Mauser Military Rifles of the World by Robt. Ball 4th edition:

....Mauser Model 1895 rifle. This was the standard rifle of the Mexican army under Porfirio Diaz and is almost identical to the Spanish Model 1893. (page 245)

The Mexican Model 1902 was the one with the 98 action but looked very similar to the 1895 model.


Dutch <------ contributor to 4th edition Mauser Military Rifles of the World

[leadman]

Larry, your 308 CBC looks similar to what a 300 Savage would look like if made from a 308 case. I have been thinking of chambering one of my 1893 Mauser to this as the 7.62X39 is very iffy on feeding from the magazine. My barrel is .310" so with cast I can adjust for that.
Mine would feed a 300 Savage but accuracy would probably not be the best but pressure should be low.
Think this would work ok?
If the OP's rifle is actually a 98 I wouldn't think he would have issues with book loads.

[Larry Gibson]

Leadman

I would try the feeding of the 300 Savage cases through the action (load 5 in the magazine) before I had the work done. I had a devil of a time modifying the feed rails in my M93 to feed the shorter stubby round with little body taper. It lead me to developing the 30x57 for use in Mauser actions which requires no feed rail modifications. Yes, the .308 CBC does look like a 300 Savage w/'06 length neck, just broader in the shoulders is all.

Larry Gibson

[Larry Gibson]

Dutchman

You know what the M95 is, I know what it is but many do not. Confusion comes from books like Kuhnhausen's which is considered a "bible" by many. It is not by me though.....too many mistakes and legal correctness.......

Page 10 lists the Mauser models and countries made for. It shows the M95 in 7x57 for Mexico. Farther down the list it also shows the M1902 as also for Mexico in 7x57. There is no differentiation that one is an SR M95 action and one a SR M98 action. On the opposite page it shows a "M95" Spanish action of which many of the Mexican actions were but I believe most were made in Germany(?). There is some discussion at the back of the book (214-215) on the Mexican M10, M24 and M36 but nothing further on the M1902 that I am aware of.

Fact is many assume any Mexican 7x57 is a "m95" which we know might not be the case.

Larry Gibson

[leadman]

Larry, I also thought about a 30/57 and might do that. I also have thought of the 7.65X54 Arg. and now that I have two 7.7 Arisakas that is also a possibility.
I have one 93 that will not feed the 7.62X39 at all and the other one does feed, sometimes, sometimes not. With the .310" bore I thought that a case based off a .308" bore would be a little safer than one with a .312" or larger bore. My one Arisaka is .316".
I'll have to get back at this Mauser as I have already rebarreled the one that would not feed with a new 7X57 barrel.

[DrBill33]

Gunsmith (a Mauser affectionado) has certified it as the M98 variant of the (so-called) M95. As on of you has noted, there were TWO different M95's.

Markings and extractors have verified this.

My difficulty has been in locating cast data. So I will utilize FMJ and begin at -10% from bottom and work up in 10 shot loadings.

l


tanks!

[UBER7MM]

Leadman

I would try the feeding of the 300 Savage cases through the action (load 5 in the magazine) before I had the work done. I had a devil of a time modifying the feed rails in my M93 to feed the shorter stubby round with little body taper. It lead me to developing the 30x57 for use in Mauser actions which requires no feed rail modifications. Yes, the .308 CBC does look like a 300 Savage w/'06 length neck, just broader in the shoulders is all.

Larry Gibson

From what I can remember reading in a library on a rainy day, a 30x57 cartridge was developed by the French between the two World Wars. I don't understand why they didn't just copy most of their European neighbors and go with 7.92x57? "Cartridges of the World" IIRC.
.
You're correct about magazine issues when changing cartridges in a 95 & 98 Mausers. They were built for the x57 case. There's tinkering involved when changing cartridge dimensions. I talked to a gunsmith about once. He said there was a trick to it, but he wasn't sharing his secrets. Job security!

[Larry Gibson]

UBER7MM

"From what I can remember reading in a library on a rainy day, the 30x57 was developed by the French between the two World Wars. I don't understand why they didn't just copy most of their European neighbors and go with 7.92x57? "Cartridges of the World" IIRC.."

Assuming you reference the 7.5x54 MAS? If so it lacks the longer neck of the '06 or 30-30 which was a required design feature for cast bullets.

Unknown why the French didn't even go with the 7.65 Belgian? In hindsight of WWII adopting the same 7.9x57 would have made a lot of sense but the French politico's and generals assumed the Maginot line kept them safe from the Germans. I doubt they really gave adopting a common cartridge much thought. If they had they might have thought of the .303 which their closest ally at the time (England) used. Oh well.......

Larry Gibson

[seaboltm]

I am not sure your Mexican Mauser is a 95. The original 95's have a hinged floorplate, but of course those can be switched out. The term "Mexican Mauser" generally refers to the the 1910 Mausers which are small ring 98 actions, and will hold any level of 308 you care to load to. Most people don't know there are small ring 98's because they are very, very rare. If the bolt has the 3rd locking locking, it is certainly a small ring 98.