Anyone fooling with a .458?

[Abert Rim]

There's one at a local shop whispering sweet nothings in my ear. I'm guessing all those molds I have for the .45-70 would work just fine in the bigger case. In a Marlin .45-70, I am fond of the Lee 325 over 17 grains Unique for a real pipsqueak. But somewhere I have a couple of those old Lyman GC 550-grain hammers of Thor from a mold Lyman no longer makes. Anyone have favorites for this boomer?

[onceabull]

That lyman mould should be a great place to start,as it will cast large enough to fill the throat on MOST of the 458W's. probably will shoot ok at orig.45/70 speed even sans the GC.Minute of mastodon,anyhow.enjoy

[onceabull]

Abert Rim; Should have mentioned that on Castpics--articles by members, "Beagle "has a short piece on the 462560,,definitely worth a looksee....Oncebull

[Buckshot]

..............9.3x62AL just got one of those brusier moulds. Don't know what he's done with it yet. Maybe he's chicken to load it, tee hee :-)

...................Buckshot

[mastercast.com]

I have been shooting 500 grain RNFP bullets in a .458 Winchester well over 20 years. Sized at .459, hard cast, with a velocity of about 1200 to 1300 f.p.s. using Unique or 2400. That makes a very pleasant shooting, accurate rifle. I have fooled around with several rifles over the years chambered for .458 Winchester and all shot very well with lead projectiles.

I shoot a few full power loads once in a while but that kinda takes the fun out of shooting in short order.

Accurate Arms 8700 and 5744 powder also make some accurate loads in .458 at reduced velocity....they leave quite a bit of unburned powder in the barrel but make some really accurate loads.

Jump on that .458....I think you will like it. You will have a bolt action .45/70 or a genuine "shoulder fired cannon" If you choose to go there.

Don't "crawl" the stock with full power loads....you won't like it if you do...you won't do it more than once I promise you....makes a fellers cheek turn funny colors.

If you mount a scope, make sure it has PLENTY of eye relief...a scope smacking you in face from the recoil of a full power .458 can do some real damage.

[snowtigger]

I have a .458 WM. I've never shot reduced loads in it. It is the only gun I ever backed up from. Literally, when I touch it off, I back up a step.
I am considering loading it down some for a hunting rifle. I have the 462560 mold, and it shoots real well with it.
I removed the scope , and The stock is too high for me. I can't get down to the open sights without really getting slapped in the face.
Does anyone have a recomendation on a good lower comb stock? It is an Interarms MarkX.
I guess I could always put the scope back on, but this is a dangerous game rifle, and scopes don't belong, IMO....

[shotstring]

Scopes work great on a 458 - even on dangerous game. You just need the correct scope and the proper eye relief. I use a Leupold 1 x 5 on mine, and that gives you almost the same field of view as using iron sights - but a little extra magnification when you need to take that 200 yard shot.

[looseprojectile]

It seems that when I have had a .458 mag. I didn't care for it.
Then when I don't have one I want one.
I just got a Siamese mauser with a 45 70 barrel fitted to it at the last gunshow.
Is a kit that needs the stock fitted and sights added.
It has been my experience that I use up all my lead and powder real fast with these rifles.
About ten years ago I had a Mark Ten mauser in 458 that was made by Weisner in Adna Washington. As usual I used up all my lead and powder. Then I traded it off for who knows what. Had a hard time finding a victim for it. After it was gone several persons told me that they really would have liked to have got it from me. Probably could have sold half a dozen.
My point is that these rifles always seem to be in great demand and if you see one on the used rack they don't seem to last long.
My quest is to finally get some accuracy from that dang Lee 420 grain plain base boolit.
I hope you get it and I am sure you will like it.

[snowtigger]

Scopes work great on a 458 - even on dangerous game. You just need the correct scope and the proper eye relief. I use a Leupold 1 x 5 on mine, and that gives you almost the same field of view as using iron sights - but a little extra magnification when you need to take that 200 yard shot.

I had a Leupy 2 1/2 on it. I may have to put it back on. The extra weight can't hurt.

[94Doug]

I have a Ruger Number One in 458 Lott. I bought it after reading something in Guns Magazine.... the author was comparing it to a 45-120 Sharps rifle, I think. He loaded it with Postels, Black Powder, SR4759 and some other powder which I cannot recall. Also shot the round ball with it. I have loaded various cast projectiles from 350-500 grains, with 4759 and TrailBoss, and even started working upwards with some IMR3031. With the TrailBoss, my 14yr old daughter and 11yr old son handled with ease. Can't ask for better family fun than that.

Doug

[mastercast.com]

The .458 Winchester can be friendly or a "wittle monster" to shoot with regard to the bullet weight and load.

I have shot deer in Missouri with mine using .45/70 class loads. Folks that see the size of the rifle and then view the loaded round, kinda look at you like you are somewhat demented until you explain the reduced loading.

Just for grins, I once shot a doe at about 40-50 yards with a .458 Winchester full power load, .459 gas check, soft cast bullet, with a hollow point added on "Ye Ole Swaging Machine"....WoooooooooooooooooHoooooooooooooooo! High speed come apart big time! I thought I heard the imiginary PA System say something like "Clean up on aisle three, and bring a mop and bucket please."

[jebb45]

Abert Rim........
I have been shooting the 458 since 1980. I picked up a Ruger 77RS, have not been sorry one bit. I have shot every weight of bullet known to man cast and "J" and I can honestly say, I like the cast better. and have stopped using any of the "J" style boolets.
I was never able to find the 550 thor mold so I ended up with the Lee 458-500 RNFP with a gas check (they make it in double cavity now). I cast it from pure WW and you can load it from 1200-2100 fps. To this day, I cannot find anything it won't stop....... It is a real hoot to shoot and if you load it to around 1500-1600 FPS, it is a dream to shoot and hunt with. I use it for everything from Praire Dogs to Bears if need be and don't feel undergunned at all. I use H-4198 or H-335 and every thing works great. I size all my cast boolets to .459 and make my own lube for all the cast and it is my favorite rifle to shoot.. Get that 458 and you won't be sorry.

jebb45:castmine::Fire::drinks:

[beagle]

I played with the .458 WM for several years. It was a Number 1 Ruger. #2 son has a Model 70. The Model 70 shoots cast well. The Number 1s have a throat that looks like an on ramp to the freeway.....long and gentle.

From my experiences, the throat's too long in the Number 1. Takes a bullet seated WAAAY out. Most of the Lyman designs are too short. The 462560 and teh RCBS 45-500-FN do all right in it.

If it's something besides a Number 1, I'd say go for it.

Other than that, they're s fun gun./beagle

[brshooter]

Have a 458 Win Mag in a Ruger #1. Like everyone says it has a long throat, my 405 gr. can be loaded to just where the lead is just berely in the case and it still will not engage the lands. Does not like cast bullets, but jacketed shoot like a house afire. Stange.. Light loads do not cause the brass to seal giving you smoky cases.

[RangerBob]

I've had a Ruger #1 in .458 for several years. It has become my favorite rifle for deer hunting and for plinking.

The long & wide throat makes it a problem child for cast bullets.

I've tried about 50 different loads and I think I'm beginning to see what works and what doesn't.

I've had best success with the RCBS 500gr RNFP GC. This bullet is accurate at any speed up to about 1900fps. I haven't tried it any faster and don't intend to. I mostly load it over 50gr of 4895 or 50gr of 3031 or 40gr of 5744. These are all 1.5moa loads (shot with a Leupold 1-4).

Lighter bullets are harder . . . especially at higher speeds. I have a Mt. Baldy bullet (375gr WFN GC) that does well up to about 1600fps.

I've tried the Lyman 300gr RNFP PB (complete failure) and Lyman 350gr RNFP PB (not bad up to about 1400fps IF you cast really big . . . like .462+ to fill the throat).

I've also tried a couple different heavy bullets (including a Postel design), a 400gr HB, a 405gr GC designed for the 45-70, several different bullet with paper patching (limited success so far), and even the jacketed Remington 405gr (great bullet).

The right load can be hard to find, but this is a very accurate rifle with the right loads.

I would love to try that big Lyman bullet someone mentioned. Let me know if you have any I could buy.

Bob.

[RangerBob]

I was talking about the Lyman 462560. If you have some I could try, I would be appreciative.

Bob.

[Bullshop]

I see most everybody saying the long throat is a no no for boolits. I would like to point out that that long gentile lead is ready made and about perfect for PP. Think of it as a belted 45/110 Sharps. Because you can seat a long PP boolit way out you gain case capacity on par with the 458 Lott that seems so well received these days. Those 458's with a 500gn PP seated out to touch the lands is a most impresive looking cartridge too.
It does not require any special tools accept maybe a push through .451" sizer die. With that you can size down and patch up any existing 45 cal rifle boolit, although it still takes a fairley long boolit but this way there are no lube grooves exposed to the eliments. Something with a fairly long gentile ogive works good, like the Postell design or similer. They can be cast in pure lead and make most excellent hunting boolits. I see most dont hot rod the 458 anyway so a 500gn pure lead at 1300 to 1500 aught to serve deer hunters well. It aint all that hard to do so just make up yer mind you are going to try it and just do it. For paper I use Southworth 100% cotton fiber 24 lb business paper.
We get it from Office Max in boxes of 80 sheets for about $10.00 per box. For cutting patches I use a table top type cutter also from Office max. I cut about six sheets at a time so the patches dont take all that much time to cut. Once you develope a rytham for rolling the patch it is on a par with applying a gas check when sizing boolits. I run my patched boolits through a .460" sizer die with lube pressure added. This way you get a thin film of lube over the entire patch, and it presses the base folds firm and flat to the boolit base, and it adds a sort of lube wad between the paper folds at the base.
I have been using this proceedure for many years and it has prooven very dependable for me and very accurate also. In the field just off the top of my head I can recall taking Grizz, moose, caribou, mule deer and there is likely some others not in my head but that did fall to one of these patched boolits. Point is dont sell your 458 short with boolits.
Blessings
BIC/BS

[charger 1]

I'd love to know the exact loads used for accuracy in the M70 cause my friend has a new M70 and its just like my number one and whitworth. Shooy J bullets like on fire but no go for cast in that throat that looks like it was cut to funnel specs

[mstarling]

I bought an Ballisti-Cast (H&G) 4 cavity FPGC mould to feed the .458 caliber rifles. It makes to 435 gr in WW. They get sized to .459 and lubed with Lar45's Red. We're shooting a 45-70, a .458 Lott, and a .458 AR.

I can't speak for the loads in the .45-70 save that my buddy is getting great accuracy at moderate and full velocities. Recoil is very manageable.

He's also getting fine accuracy with an iron-sighted .458 Lott.

I did a "cheap" build on a Parker-Hale Mauser into a .458 AR (a slightly shortened .375 UltraMag opened up to .458 and improved). It is fitted with a 22" Douglas Silhoutte contour barrel. Has a Timney trigger and Beuhler safety. Is fitted with a 2.5x Leupold Compact scope on Leupold QRW rings. It makes more velocity than the Lott.

I use 50 grains of AA5744 for moderate loads, and 85 grains of H335 for full velocity loads. We see little to no leading with Carnauba Red. Is quite accurate with impacts touching at 50 yards with both the moderate and heavy loads.

Cast bullets make this one practical to practice with and comfortable to shoot. Believe me, 500 grain Woodleigh SPs or Solids at 2300 fps are exciting to shoot in a 10 pound rifle. Has way more recoil than my CZ 550 Safari Mag .416 Rigby with full loads.

[Bullshop]

mstarling
I think that none of the cartridges you mentioned have the looooong lead that is designed into the SAAMI 458 Win mag. I have searched for reamers without this feature but not found any. Of the ones I found if it said 458 Win mag it had the long lead. Of the 458 Lotts I have seen not so. The wildcat you mrntioned I am not familier with. The very thing that made the balistics of the 458 WM possible with bullets in a standard length action is a detriment to most light for caliber boolit designs in the SAAMI 458 WM chamber.
Blessings
BIC/BS

[charger 1]

mstarling
I think that none of the cartridges you mentioned have the looooong lead that is designed into the SAAMI 458 Win mag. I have searched for reamers without this feature but not found any. Of the ones I found if it said 458 Win mag it had the long lead. Of the 458 Lotts I have seen not so. The wildcat you mrntioned I am not familier with. The very thing that made the balistics of the 458 WM possible with bullets in a standard length action is a detriment to most light for caliber boolit designs in the SAAMI 458 WM chamber.
Blessings
BIC/BS

Yes Sir, every thing mstarling speaks of is very shootable in cast. They dont have the wobble throat of the win mag chamber

[725]

Great to read about so many fans of the .458. I took a .458 WM Ruger and reamed it to the Lott. My reamer has only the one job on it. Very easy. So far I've only really toyed with the 405 "J" Remington bullet. As time permits, I'll move over to the boolits. So far I've used 3031 to the best effect, but my experience is way limited. One of the play loads is 9 grs. of Unique and a round ball. From plinker round ball loads to full power house loads, the Lott is a gas. Just got some of the Midway 1/2 price sale bullets (500 gr solids) but haven't loaded a single one. Too much fun, too little time. Like the others here, I would reccomend not passing on a .458. Get it and enjoy it.

[StrawHat]

I had a M98 someone built into a 458 Win Mag. I won it in a bet.

I used it to cure a flinch problem I was having. 5 controlled shot from a bench did the trick!

After that I had no use for the power so used it with black powder and 450 grain hollow based bullets.

I could only get +/- 85 grains in the case so considered and called it a belted 45-90.

That was before I learned better loading techniques and had not yet heard of the 45-80.

Anyway, it was a fun gun with black and harvested a couple of deer. Sold it off and have no idea what replaced it.

So... a long way of saying, if you want a good reduced load, try black powder.

[Nazgul]

Ranger bob- I have some 462560's if you still want to try a few. PM me.

[HollandNut]

I've been foolin' with 458 Winnies and Lott's since the mid 70's ..

They are very versatile with the cast boolits and a lotta fun to boot ..

Get it , you wont regret it ..

[RangerBob]

Nazgul,

Private Message sent.

Thanks,

RangerBob