Sage advice sought, Original Schofield

[crossfireoops]

I'm helping a bud out with a very sound S&W Schofield original .......it's marked (Correctly) W.F. Co's. Ex, and bears no caliber markings whatsoever.

Ostensibly the caliber is .45 Schofield, and some "Cowboy ammo" that he got from Midway.....Loaded in Starline Brass, drops into the chambers, Case legnth looks correct. He apparently got this from Midway, and it's loaded with Goex BP.........No, I haven't got the box.............here's the rub,
......the exposed portion of the 230gr. RNFP cast bullet mikes .453-.454, and man are they ever HARD boolits. The cylindrical body may be larger.......
The boolits will not even start in the forcing cone

......A .448- pin gauge is a very snug fit in the cylinder throats.......

Obviously, I don't much like the idea of putting that much "squeeze' on the oversized hard slugs.

Any advice , coaching, steering welcomed,........he's bound and determined to shoot the old beauty, ........and as noted it is in very solid and stout condition.

What have I got here, Gents ?

Thanks in advance ,

GTC

[45 2.1]

I wouldn't be shooting those in an original by any means (you really know how much those cost now?). Cast up some suitable boolits in the original lead/tin alloy and load some Starline cases cases with BP.

[crossfireoops]

Well , yeah, ...I guess we're not going to allow / shoot any more of this poor quality Commercial garbage anywhere's near the thing.

It's a very intruiging, and fine arm.........I've made and fitted a new Cylinder Bush, .....and although the locking recesses are a bit looser than I'd like, ...the thing times better than an awful lotta' brand new ones.

Just got done inpact slugging, and a bit more time on the pin gauges.......

*The Throats are clearly a nominal .448"

*The Groove is .447" and ask for a .0002" dispensation.......I'm a ways out from Mr. McKagen, but will send him an example of a very clean 5 groove impact slug.......the .447" call out is based on rotating the impact slug between very good caliper jaws.....PLEASE don't ask me to do a Dial indicator, surface plate, V-block thing, .......0002" is close enough for the time being.

* The bore pin gauges at .437 -", ......and clearly defines "Choke"..... a .439- will just barely start in front of the force cone......and the .436-" will perceptibly start to "drag", within the last inch of barrel.....

No-one get hostile about gaging,....the things have soft radiuses polishied on the ends.

So, .....What the Hell have I got here.......?


Tom Kysis, up in Mesa told me this afternoon, "No problem,.....230 gr RNFP ,.448"

I'm thinkin' to spec .4475", if he can get there, ....and SPG lube.

I reckon that "Hogdon's Trail Boss" is the way to fly, as far as propellant goes, ....cuz' the owner is not really a BP shooter, and I'd rather not see further corrosion from warped cleaning strategies.


Keep em' comin'.....and much appreciated.

GTC

[Larry Gibson]

The barrel dimensions fit either the the .44 Russian, the .44 S&W American or the .44 Colt. The S&W American was developed in 1869 and is one of the earliest CF handgun cartridges. The Russian was also devoped around 1870 and the Colt is for converted Colt percussian revolvers. Head diamter of the Russian case is .455, the S&W case is a nominal .440 and .460 for the Colt case. The head diameter of the Schofield case is a noinal .475. What is the chamber diameter of the revolver in hand?

Larry Gibson

[crossfireoops]

Larry, .....What part of the chamber....Base, neck ....?

GTC

[crossfireoops]

Got it, ......and sorry for Rifle logic intrusion,........I spaced out a Straight chamber potential.....

Just checked, ...a fresh .482-" pin gage is a snug gliding fit, in chambers showing a remarkable remaining factory bluing. .483-" ain't gonna go there.

Anxiously awaiting more great info, coaching, steering....

Ya'll 're great!

GTC

[Blackhawk Convertable]

Once you get rid of the hard cast....

5-5.5gr of Trail Boss would also make a nice 700ish fps load. Fun, pleasant, and safe for both shooter and gun.

[crossfireoops]

BlackhawkC....that's exactly what I've got in mind......a "Loafer".....The owner, ...my Bud, ...is not interested in anything but having a reliable and safe pistola to pack.....the fact that he chooses to carry this valuable, and rare gun...? That's between him and his God.

This particular revolver would be a nice 130Year old + 'Chinese blueprint, ....to send to some factory's final Q.C. Depts.

Fantastic fit, and finish, and durable enough to hold up to .45 loads, ....when it really starts to look like an esoteric .44.

I do really fine, and reverant work........make parts for Merwyn-Hulberts (Sp?)....and measure thre times before touching anything with a tool.

Revolvers are not really my area (S.S.rifle nut)....but they limp in begging for TLC, .....what's a guy to do, ......?

Other than get intruiged by the clever intricacy,.....superior machining, and care lavished, etc.

Thanks for the input, and 700fps dittos.

GTC

[crossfireoops]

I'm just head over heels in love with this fine old pelter....

http://i18.photobucket.com/albums/b115/robbinmyers/SW2.jpg

http://i18.photobucket.com/albums/b115/robbinmyers/SW4.jpg

http://i18.photobucket.com/albums/b115/robbinmyers/SW3.jpg

Heartbroken romance,.....

GTC

[Mayor]

Do you have any cerrosafe on hand? If so cast a chamber, then compare that to Barnes" book "Manual of Cartridge Conversions" for proper caliber. I have some original 44 S&W loaded ammo. I can give you dimensions for comparison. Remember that Heel Base ammo has basically the same bullet diameter as case OD. To find out if the pistol in question was set up for heel base ammo check the cylinder throats. If they are the same size as the chamber (or very close) then it shoots heel base bullets!

[crossfireoops]

Thanks Mayor, .......I'm using a set of precision pin gages, .....Radius ground to avoid any scuffing.........The Chamber troats are indeed a nominal .448-.

I've edited an error in original barrel plot posted....here's the straight skinny.

Chamber throats .448-
Bore .437-
Groove .447-

Spoke with a very knowledgeable Dave Chicoine this AM, ........he's calling this out as an original .45 S&W, ....right on original print, .......and recomended a .450 max slug, soft lead tin.

Interesting excercise, .....nice to learn something new.

GTC

GTC

[Mayor]

Super!

Sounds like you got 'er licked!

[crossfireoops]

I'll say it again,......I'm pretty fresh here, ....don't post much,......

this is my "Go-To" site for real deal savvy.

I'm lucky, in that old Bill Ferguson has been gently trying to batter some CB sense into this reformed "Other Boolit" head......I think he's done OK, and I take an awful lotta' pride in the molds I own, and my alloy blending, now. It all happens in 150 lb., well fluxed, and practical temperature ranges........

I don't know much about the Hard and tempered alloy end......from practical experience, but have been studying on it.........

Many thanks for all the support.

Take those original Schofield S&W forty five dims. to the bank, .....they ARE valid.

GTC

[Dale53]

Crossfiretroops;
I've really enjoyed reading this thread. I do NOT have an original revolver of this caliber. However, I have shot a considerable number of black powder cartridge revolver loads. I have had good luck with 20/1 lead/tin. I would not be afraid, at all, to use black powder with proper cleaning protocol. If you do decide to use black powder, be sure and use a good black powder bullet lube. I use Emmert's Home Mix (works well with smokeless, also). SPG is a very good commercial black powder lube.

This is a particular case where Trailboss may be indicated (as suggested above). I sort of envy you being able to put this "old gal" back to work. I bet she'll really shoot, also. Smith really knew how to make revolvers in those days. Ira Paine, and others, shot those originals extremely well "back in the day".

Dale53

[crossfireoops]

AAWWWwww.....

I have all the luck, I guess................

but have to live with the unbelievable nonsense that a "Hollywierd" place like Tombstone , Az., it's general populace, and mindset can inflict on old classics.

I'm having an intense affair with this particular beauty, .....gut wrenching, heart pounding lust......

I reckon it'll pass, and haven't had it this bad for a long time........the Merwyn-Hulbert affair damn near did me in..........

Waserburger calls 'em "Ex-Spurts",.....I might lean more towards just callin' 'em A-hools. As long as it still fires, they'll run it......'til broke.

So tragic , sometimes, seeing the grief that these wannabes inflict on legacy heritage iron. This S&W escaped by a narrow margin.

As noted, take my #s to the bank..........they are good print on the real specs.

GTC

[crossfireoops]

You just have to love a happy ending.....

A friend of the owner contacted me this AM,....an inveterate BP loonie, and active SASS shooter, ....with all the savvy and also tools to get some very fine ammo built that'll perform as per the original intent.

I 'spect he'll be visiting my little lurk, and that we'll strike a long and lasting friendship, and wring out some more finer points.

Thank you all, again, ....and wish all of you the best of a safe and blessed Thanksgiving.

Great Country we live in,.....take a kid shooting, keep it thus.

GTC