New to me lathe, information needed.

[littlejack]

Hey fellas and ladies:
I picked up an Atlas lathe today at an estate sale. Not much information on it, so I am asking for input from all of you knowlagable machinists and smithy's. I have been wanting a "Quick Change" type ever since I 'Did not" get one when I bought my Grizzly 10x22. As little as I know about lathes, the Grizzly has suited me well for the past year. It IS a BIG pita to change gears for threading though.
At the estate sale, there sat an Atlas , with a Quick Change box on it. It measure approximately 5.125" from center of the chuck, to the way. The bed measures 36". So, I am thinking it is a 10x36. Does this sound correct. The model is a QC54. I am assuming that the QC is for Quick Change. The machine looks to have been used very little.
There is some paint wore off in places but the gear teeth look good and square with very little wear. I do not believe the lathed was used by the deceased owner. Everything was cleaned spotless, and the gears had a single line of grease running down the center of each. The ways were in almost perfect condition, but dry. Very little noticeable wear, or shiny areas where the carriage would have contacted. All of the pulleys are in pristine condition, as are the belts. All of the covers and guards are in perfect condition, except for the minor missing paint. It came with its original floor stand. All of the castings seem to be good and solid, and nothing is broken or cracked. I haven't had a chance to even go over the machine to well as it got dark on me as I got it unloaded. The price was 800.00 American.
All information on this machine would be greatly appreciated.
Regards
Jack

[gzig5]

Not a bad deal depending on chucks and other tooling that may have come with it. If in good shape it should serve you well. There is an Atlas lathe Yahoo group you can join with lots of info, manuals, etc.
http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/atlas_craftsman/info
Spare parts are easy to make or find on ebay and Clausing still has some NOS parts but they are usually spendy.

I've been using the Craftsman 12x36 version for a while and while a light machine with some wear, it has performed well.

This site has a lot of historical info http://www.lathes.co.uk/atlas/

I "think" the QC54 designation is for a 54" bed which would have 36" between centers. Does your lathe have Timken tapered bearings or sleeve type? Main difference is top speed capability. Some people poo-poo the Zamak gears which can fail over time, but these were built to a price point. Replacements if needed are easy to make or buy off the shelf.

[bangerjim]

Do searches on the net for the Atlas. Manuals and other tips can be found with little trouble.

There is/was a book published for years by South Bend (my tool room lathe) called "How to Run a Lathe" I see various versions of this book all the time at different shows I attend. It contains valuable info on lathe activities. Not sure how much lathe experience you have, but a quick-change is the ONLY lathe to have!

You will find you will be doing a lot more threading on that lathe! And using the power feeds for cutting and finishing, as you can just shift a lever to get the speed/feed you want.

Have fun!

banger

[uscra112]

Just got to know this guy https://www.tools4cheap.net while searching for some accessories for my 10" South Bend. He also has new-made Atlas parts, in case you need anything. (Sounds like you don't, but bookmark for futire reference.)

[Marvin S]

The atlas had its own version of the southbend book. I had the same lathe with the book. You probalby done ok if the bed is not worn as the soft flat ways did not fare well.

[lreed]

I have an Atlas lathe,12x36,only difference is the distance over bed,most parts are the same. A lot of people scoff a the old Atlas lathes,but I have thoroughly enjoyed mine,have successfully threaded and chambered several rifle barrels and contoured only one,and that will be the last. By the way,I think you,"Done found a bird nest on the ground"machines like yours are way more pricy in my local. lreed

[Bent Ramrod]

"Manual of Lathe Operation," by the Atlas Press Co.

Enter "Atlas Lathe Parts" into E-Bay for a guaranteed evening's worth of reading.

[375RUGER]

I looked at an atlas recently but didn't buy it. While researching, I came across this and thought it looked like a good resource.
http://www.quarterbore-inc.com/atlaslathecd.htm

[plainsman456]

I need to move mine to the shop from town.

Does anyone have an idea what one of those suckers weigh?

Figure i can take the motor drive off at least.

[bangerjim]

Just got to know this guy https://www.tools4cheap.net while searching for some accessories for my 10" South Bend. He also has new-made Atlas parts, in case you need anything. (Sounds like you don't, but bookmark for futire reference.)

I have done a lot of business with this guy. He is very reputable and honest.

banger

[bangerjim]

I looked at an atlas recently but didn't buy it. While researching, I came across this and thought it looked like a good resource.
http://www.quarterbore-inc.com/atlaslathecd.htm

I have a copy of the Atlas book shown also. Bought it at Sears waaaaaaaaaaaay back when they sold REAL tools!!!!

It is an excellent source of info for any lathe, a is the South Bend book I mentioned above.

banger

[littlejack]

Thanks fellas for all of the replies.
The lathe did come with a copy of "Manual of Lathe Operation and Machinist Tables", this looks to be some very in depth reading. I don't know if my sponge matter can absorb this information without too much strain.
I do need to get some additional tooling, but that will take time and $$$$$$.
There is a sticker on one of the covers that specifies the Timken bearings. That is another great feature.
What would be the best or a better grease on the "ZAMAK" (zinc, aluminum, magnesium, and copper) made gears? I am assuming that a good quality grease that will not "sling" off when gears are turning.
If there is any peculiarities with these lathes, I would appreciate any information that you fellas have learned from your using these old gems.
Regards
Jack

[2AMMD]

I found a file "How to use a lathe" browsing but cant seem to find the link right now. I saved the file. 100+ pages and lots of basic information. I can email a copy if you want it. PM me w/ email address if you want the file. There is also a PDF file on line, "Running a Regal" that is specific to Le Blonde Lathes, but may be helpful also.
2AMMD

[Marvin S]

There is or used to be a product called GEX it is a spray grease for open gears.

[uscra112]

I need to move mine to the shop from town.

Does anyone have an idea what one of those suckers weigh?

Figure i can take the motor drive off at least.

I watched one sell at an auction a couple weekend ago. Four husky guys heaved it into the bed of a pickup.

[beezapilot]

I belong to this forum- they have an old wood working machines and an old metal working machine side of the house, in addition they have a sister site that is just vinatge machinery that has links to hundreds of manuals.
http://www.owwm.org/viewforum.php?f=77

They helped me get my Atlas up and running.

[David2011]

Plainsman,

Do you know anyone with a lift gate on their pickup? That would be the easy way to move the lathe. It probably weighs over 800 pounds on the stand so removing the motor probably wouldn't help much (effort vs. reward considered) but remove the chuck, tailstock and other easily removed accessories. Don't try to lift it by putting something through the headstock. That could damage the bearings.

I've lifted mine with a floor jack and thick boards, then set it on furniture dollies to move it inside the shop. The dolly under the headstock has to be a commercial mover quality dolly. The one under the tailstock end can be Harbor Freight quality.

David

[plainsman456]

Where it is now there is a hoist overhead so i can get it to the rear door.

The guy i bought it from has a trailer that has a i-beam with a chain hoist that extends far enough it may reach into my shop door and onto the bench i made for it.

It hasn't been cleaned for a long time and i have in hand the brass nuts and shafts to replace the old ones.

I did order that cd today and with other papers i have should be able to make little pieces out of big pieces soon.

[Dutchman]

This is an ancient Sears-Atlas 10x30" (48"OAL) that I had for many years. It was so old it had cast iron journals for the spindle. The change gears were worn out by the time I got it so I never attempted to thread. But it was accurate to the point that I couldn't see getting rid of it.

The carriage pinion gear broke so in my haste to fix things I built a lever feed for the carriage complete with 3 "speeds" (pivot points). It worked so good I never sought out a new pinion gear.

http://images9.fotki.com/v1493/photos/2/28344/2481968/photo1-vi.jpg

89720

You'll want to save this photo. It's a draw bar for 3C collets. The draw tube is made from 1/2" pipe. The collet threads onto a piece of threaded steel that I silver soldered to the draw bar. Where that line is on the right end about an inch from the end was the joint. The handle was just a piece of aluminum knurled and held to the draw tube with setscrew. And that white thingy is a piece of some kind of nylon as a thrust bearing. Only things I had to buy was the 3MT adapter and the 3C collets. I found a whole set of South Bend 3C collets 1/8" to 1/2" for $5 each (you won't find those at that price today). This was the single greatest improvement for this lathe as you can work very close tolerances with collets. You had to leave the gear cover door open because the draw bar butted up against the end of the spindle. You could work around that by boring the cover door clearance hole larger and making the drawbar longer to work with the door closed. I was in a hurry.

http://images116.fotki.com/v699/photos/2/28344/2481968/photo-vi.jpg

Factory milling attachment. These work just fine for very light milling if you have no milling machine. You have to learn how to finese milling with such a setup but it can be a godsend.

http://images53.fotki.com/v1502/photos/2/28344/2481968/photo-vi.jpg

The Atlas takes heat for being a lousy lathe but it is anything BUT a lousy lathe. It is simply a light duty lathe. Learn to listen to the lathe and it will tell you what it wants you to do.

Mine had one improvement from the previous owner. The half-nut was made from beryllium copper. Oh man it was so cool!

You got a smokin' deal for $800. Post photos when you can.

http://www.lathes.co.uk/atlas/

The 1933 patent was assigned to Atlas Press of Kalamazoo, Michigan. It was for the speed changing mechanism.

http://www.lathes.co.uk/atlas/page7.html

http://images38.fotki.com/v1271/photos/2/28344/2481968/us001909522002-vi.jpg

[littlejack]

Thanks Dutch for your photos. Your lathe is definitely older than mine. I believe my 10x54 was manufactured in the early to mid 50's. They stopped making them (10") in 1958 or 59. I do like your milling attachment.
The more I scrutinize this little lathe, the better I like it. It has the Quick Change gear box (that was the main reason I bought it.) Then, there is the "back gears" on a separate spindle, that when engaged, drops the main drive spindle down to a 6 to 1 ratio. This lathe also has the power cross feed, that will be great when facing off material, especially the larger stock.
The Grizzly I have does not have a quick change gear box. It does not have the gear reduction capabilities, other than the standard belt changes, and the change gears for threading. It does not have the power cross feed.
I would like to get a "quick change" tool holder for the Atlas, as the one on it is the old lantern style.
I do have a nice quick change holder that I bought for the Grizzly G602 10x22, but I don't know yet if it can be used on this Atlas. Anyone know if it can be fitted to the Atlas??????
I would also like to get a set (or a few favorite sizes) of the collets. I will maybe need a steady rest in the future, but for now, I don't.
It dropped about 7"- 8" of snow on us here in the Willamette Valley last night and today. Supposed to get more tonight. The temp only got up to 25* today. It's going to be down in the mid teens tonight. My Atlas is sitting in the carport. I would really like to have it in my little "man nest" but no room with the Grizzly lathe in there. I need to get the Grizzly lathe sold, and move in my new toy.
Regards
Jack

[Dutchman]

The tool holder for your Grizzly 10x will work fine but you'll need a T-nut that fits your compound rest. Easy enough to make, drill & tap for the QC tool holder.


This is the set of QC tool holder I use on my Birmingham 12x36. I also bought the lathe from this place in 2005.
http://billstoolcrib.com/quickchangew100.htm

I spent 30 years with a lathe that used change gears so I don't see that as a handicap. This is a Von Wyck lathe 15x60" made circa 1905. I gave it to a young lad in Ohio when I bought the new lathe. I also gave him the Atlas-Craftsman 10x at the same time.

http://images29.fotki.com/v1012/photos/2/28344/474695/la3-vi.jpg

[seagiant]

Hi,
Try this, http://www.lathes.co.uk/atlas/

[littlejack]

Thanks for the replies.
I'm glad to hear that my QC will fit. The T-nut on the Grizzly, is a piece of flat bar that has two opposing edges milled, to fit the upper slot in the compound.
Would it be too easy to just use a length of flat bar with a hole in the center, drilled and tapped for the stud?
Is there any particular reason for having the opposing edges milled, except to fit up into the upper slot?

Seagiant, I did find that site on the net last week. Thank you.

[littlejack]

Just for my information, are ALL lathes set up to have the same height for their cutting tools. In other words; "Would all/most 10" lathes accept the same tool post (10") and it be the correct height to work on each, except for a specific T-nut for each?
Jack

[theperfessor]

I think most T-nuts are made as thick as necessary to get adequate thread engagement for your tool holder, and then the edges/sides are cut down to match a specific brand/model machine. I don't have a small lathe but I've helped a couple friends set theirs up with different tool holders and that's the way it seemed to me.

I wouldn't think that lathes of different brands but identical swings would all have the exact same center height, but I would expect the same tool holders to work for the same size lathes but with minor adjustments for height.

Sorry if I've misunderstood your question.

[littlejack]

perfessor:
What you stated about the thickness of the T-nuts makes perfect sense.
As for the center heights, you did understand what I was trying to relate. It would be very labor intensive/costly for all manufacturers to try and match all other machines exactly, in this manor.
Now I can concentrate on getting a piece of fb, and get started on my T-nut. Thank you for your experienced input.
Again, members have come to the aid of another to give help and advise. This is only ONE of the reasons that the CastBoolits continues to be the best forum on the NET.

Thank you all for your help with a novice lathe fan. It is greatly appreciated.
Merry Christmas to you all.
Jack

[littlejack]

I finally went out and braved the cold, to check the QC tool holder and the slot in the Atlas. I will have to remove some of the casting on top of the compound where the flat was machined for the original tool holder. There needs to be about .600 more flat, for the QC tool holder to set solid/flat on the compound.
The original nut is a piece of 5/16" fb with a hole in it, countersunk on one side. The original tool holder has a threaded hole up into the bottom that a countersunk allen head bolt screws into. I can either make one like that, with 5/16" material, drill and counter sink, or have a thicker (say) 1/2" piece machined to fit the slot, drill and tap for stud.
For now, I will choose the former. I believe this will suffice, as trying to pull the counter sunk head through the 5/16" fb. would be quite a chore.
Jack

[littlejack]

Can someone tell me what size collets and drawbar I need to fit the 10" Atlas?

[ndnchf]

I have 3C collets for my Craftsman/Atlas 12x24. I think 3AT will work also. FYI, I've had mine for over 25 years, no quick change gears, but its not a big deal to me. I have made many, many parts on it over the years and have accumulated most of the accessories and goodies for it. Its like a faithful old friend.

http://i1277.photobucket.com/albums/y493/ndnchf/Atlas%2012%20inch%20metal%20lathe/AtlasCraftsman12lathe_zpsaee96312.jpg (http://s1277.photobucket.com/user/ndnchf/media/Atlas%2012%20inch%20metal%20lathe/AtlasCraftsman12lathe_zpsaee96312.jpg.html)

[littlejack]

Thank you for your reply.
That's a nice looking lathe you have there. Looks broke-in like a fine pair of shoes.
Can you tell me the difference between the collet types you mentioned? I have never been rehearsed on the different types of collets available.
There is a 3AT set-up on fleabay, how do I know what model/no. will fit my 10x54 lathe?
Jack

[bangerjim]

If you need 3C's or whatever......anything.....for your lathe, check this guy out. I have purchased a lot from him and he is a good seller

http://www.tools4cheap.net

I bought a full set of 3C's (round to 64th's, square, and hex) from him recently for the engineering R&D small lathe I bought at a show.

banger

[oldred]

check this guy out. I have purchased a lot from him and he is a good seller

http://www.tools4cheap.net

banger


+1 on that! That guy ships fast too, or at least he has so far, and his prices are really good. He has a lot of odds-n-ends too that can sometimes be very useful and he's dirt cheap on stuff like that.

[littlejack]

Anyone know if the 3AT, and the 3C collets can be used with the same drawbar? They are very close in dimensions, but I would like to know if a 3C collet will thread onto the 3AT drawbar.
Jack

[littlejack]

I found a diagram of collet dimensions. It looks like the 3AT collet is .037 larger at the back bearing surface. The threads are: 3AT .637-26 RH and the 3C are .640-26 RH respectively.
The 3AT is also .375 shorter than the 3C.
So, I am assuming that a 3C collet adapter would be the fix, correct?

[ndnchf]

I can't help with the difference between 3AT ansd 3C. I bought a complete used 3C set off fleabay years ago. I use collets whenever possible because they are quick, easy and accurate. I pick up extras to machine to my needs as well. Here's an example of a collet I machined to take a .58 Roberts cartridge rim of .750" (it was just barely large enough). I needed it to ream the cases.

http://i1277.photobucket.com/albums/y493/ndnchf/BPCR/Reamingcase_zps7727c539.jpg (http://s1277.photobucket.com/user/ndnchf/media/BPCR/Reamingcase_zps7727c539.jpg.html)

[littlejack]

Thank you for the photo.
To me, that is machining at its finest. That's something I have never even envisioned doing on my lathe.
But! I can learn.
Regards
Jack

[bangerjim]

+1 on the collets whenever possible. I have, as mentioned above, every 3C collet made by man for my small lathe.

I make lots of antique reproduction/repair scientific instrumentation in my shops and need to do very accurate turning & milling. And internal/external threading of tubing and solid pieces with up to 60 TPI.

As you already know or will learn rapidly, metal working is NOT forgiving! You cannot "glue a piece back on" as with woodworking and get a redo. Only thing that is unique and very useful is knurling a shaft that you have made just a bit too small for a tolerance fit. Knurling is the ONLY machining procedure (wood or metal) that actually enlarges the stock!

I have a complete set (64th) of 5C's for the South Bend and all the many attachments for my mills.

If you want to do accurate turning on your lathe with a 3 or 4 jaw self centering (not independent) chuck, and save the lots of money on collets, either buy a tru-set ($$$$$) chuck or make one like I have done with my 4, 6, and 8". Not really difficult ( and hones your machining skills!), and I get <0.0005 runout with a CHUCK! All the above checks are hardened top jaw/reversibles. By making a relative inexpensive 3 or 4 jaw top jaw chuck into a tru-set, you have almost collet accuracy from almost zero to the full capacity of your chuck.

banger

[ndnchf]

Jack - you'll find many uses for a lathe after you have it for a while. I'm not a machinist, just a gun crank who likes to make things himself when possible. I did not make the cases in the above photo, they came from Rocky Mountain Cartridge company. But they were way too thick at the case mouth. So I bought a $10 reamer off fleabay and set them up as shown. It worked like a charm. If you want to see some great machine shop tutorials, search utube for "tubalcain". The guy is a retired machine shop teacher and has made a couple hundred how-to videos that are great guys like us.

[littlejack]

I have watched a few of "tubalcains" videos. They are very informative, and show each step of the process clearly. I intend on watching a lot more of his, and others that are available.
Jack