Range Disaster - Lee 7/8 oz. Slugs

[kingemandigger]

My trip to the range yesterday yielded some interesting information. I recently loaded up some slugs, and was feeling pretty confident that they would perform relatively well. However, their performance was a disaster. I am interested to hear some of y'all's opinions about what when wrong.

I have read many threads on this and other forums, and have read published data as well. For the lee 7/8 oz. slug, lee recommended 40 grains of HS-6 behind a fed. 12s3 wad. Many of you guys said that 32-34 grains was plenty, and after that recoil became harsh and accuracy suffered. I thus loaded according to both of these sources.

The recipe I used was as follows:
Federal Hull, 33, 38, & 40 grains HS-6, BPGS (gas seal), Fed. 12S3 wad with petals trimmed, 1 nitro card, 6 pt. fold crimp
89063

After arriving at the range, I was excited to see how these performed, maybe I could even hit the 10 in gong at 100 yds. How wrong I was. I tried the 33 grainers first. These were almost duds! I even had to get out my rod and check for squibs a couple times. The rounds would give a little pop, and wizz out the barrel, making a ricochet sound. Some landed about 50 feet in front of the table and I was able to recover them. Check this out...89064

The 38 and 40 grain loads were better, but horribly inaccurate, thus the lack of a target picture, and all left about 75% of the powder unburnt. This would get all over the table and me when I jacked the sell out of the chamber. Also, most of the wads stayed intact and look almost new. However, some were severely mangled.
89065

None of the shot loads had really any recoil. My conclusion is that HS-6 is just too slow of a powder for a 7/8 oz. application. However, I am not ready to give up, since I have better uses for my Unique and WSF. Everyone else seems to have better results than this. Therefor, I am quite interested to hear some opinions.

[kingemandigger]

890668906789068

I used cci 209 primer. Also, the powder was dry and the shells were not damp when loaded.

[pipehand]

That looks weird. I've never had the skirt spread out like that on any of the 1 ounce Lees I've loaded, much less found them on the ground 50 feet in front of the muzzle. What firearm are you shooting them out of?

[MarkP]

In addition to the card, try filling the base of the slug with hot glue or wax. I could not get the LEE key drives to shoot very well and filling the base helped somewhat. However the Lyman 525 shoots very well with all loads I have tried almost rifle like in my 11-87 slug gun.

I have had some squib loads like that several years ago loading 20 ga 3" mags with IMR-4227. It was inconsistent most would go off but had about 3 out of 25 just go pop. Shot and wad would clear bbl just barley.

[SuperBlazingSabots]

Hello Kingemandigger, something very fishy here:
1. Is your wad a original Fed.12S3 or an Imitation wad.

2. Don't even bother to fill the base cavity on those Lee Drive Key I do not know who's great idea it was.

3. The load for 32 to 34 gr Max for HS-6 was for Lee 1 Oz slug.

4. When I load the Lee 1Oz slug or 7/8 Oz slug in Commander wad I use 2-.125-16 nitro cards below slug to give it a very solid firm base like this:
http://i232.photobucket.com/albums/ee75/Dantebeowulf/Leesluginwad.jpg (http://s232.photobucket.com/user/Dantebeowulf/media/Leesluginwad.jpg.html)
5. Did you use my 1 inch paper tech. to overcome the powder and burning gases seeping by.
Blow by gases can burn wad:
http://i232.photobucket.com/albums/ee75/Dantebeowulf/Lyman525loadwadscopy.jpg (http://s232.photobucket.com/user/Dantebeowulf/media/Lyman525loadwadscopy.jpg.html)
http://i232.photobucket.com/albums/ee75/Dantebeowulf/Powerslipping.jpg (http://s232.photobucket.com/user/Dantebeowulf/media/Powerslipping.jpg.html)
6. You can't put BPGS and then the Fed.12S3 wad, you will need to fill the base cavity of the Fed.12S3 with a .125" nitro card.
7. Is your gun barrel overbored by any chance?
8. Your slug in pictures looks to be deep in the hull, is it a good fit for a fold crimp.
9. What primer are you using?

Feel free to read my post on faster buck shot loads here:
http://castboolits.gunloads.com/show...uck+shot+loads
&
VdoMemories Blazing Buck & Ball or Buck & Slugs post here:
http://castboolits.gunloads.com/show...zing+buck+ball

Be on the look out for more pure Gold!

Passing the torch of knowledge is something done out of genetic responsibility!

Hoping it helps.
Best regards,
Ajay Madan
Super Blazing Sabots
BlazingSabots@Gmail.com
http://www.facebook.com/BlazingSabots?ref=hl[/url]
http://slugshooting.accountsupport.com/[/url] ... wforum.php
http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthr[/url] ... ot!/page1
http://www.shotgunworld.com/bbs/view...f=118&t=196961[/url]
http://www.deeranddeerhunting.com/fo...p?f=43&t=39246[/url]
http://www.go2gbo.com/forums/slug-gu...old-is-gold-!/[/url]
-Elite Group of Slug Shooter's
We all, who take slug loading seriously are a dedicated family, who have taken it upon ourselves to perfect our tech. We experiment to find better techniques and share our knowledge.
Location: New Jersey. USA / Frankfort, W.Germany / London, UK

[cpileri]

If I did nt read you put it in a wad, i'd say it was obturating into an overbored barrel.

Are your wads all blown such that gas could get up under the skirt?

What does your bore slug to?
C-

[kingemandigger]

Sorry bout that. I'm using a winchester ranger with 24in slug bbl

[kingemandigger]

I'm using cci 209 primer. The wads are real fed. wads and I did not use the paper tech. you speak of. This is an interesting situation

[kingemandigger]

89108
Seriously... Talk about inconsistency

[Hogtamer]

Something SERIOUSLY wrong! Stop! Powder mixed up? Barrel OK? Is HS-6 appropriate for 7/8 oz? Damp hulls? I shoot lots of lee slugs, 7/8 oz over 34 - 36 grns Longshot. I'd bet on a powder mixup or badly deteriorated powder.

[hubel458]

What is groove diameter. If it is small like a lot of replacement
rifled barrels it will tear up stuff.

What does the OD of the wad measure with the Lee in it.

What was the temp of the cases and the gun.

That slug and wad problem can be due to faulty 2 stage ignition.
WHICH IS NOT SAFE.. Don't do it with that combo.

Try a slower flake or stick powder, like Blue Dot or Steel.ED

[longbow]

Something very strange going on there. First, is that a published recipe you used?

I see on the Hodgdon website four recipes for 7/8 oz. slug in Federal Gold Medal hulls (you didn't say which Federal hull you used) and the loads start at 36 grs. and go to 42 grs. so at the lighter load you started with, possibly there was not enough pressure for complete powder burn but your 38 gr. load should have worked. The Federal 12S3 wad is not listed though:

Lead Slugs 12 7/8 oz. Buckbuster HS-6 CCI 209M WAA12F114 36 10,600 PSI 1550

Lead Slugs 12 7/8 oz. Buckbuster HS-6 Fed. 209A Fed. 12SO 42 9,300 PSI 1550

Lead Slugs 12 7/8 oz. Slugmaster HS-6 Win. 209 BPGS + 2-1/2" Felt + 1-.135" Card 37 10,200 PSI 1450

Lead Slugs 12 7/8 oz. Buckbuster HS-6 Win. 209 Fed. 12SO 42 8,200 PSI 1550

Different slug but same weight and in a wad.

As Ajay said, you shouldn't stack the seals. Two reasons:

- if both seal well, pressures can increase quite dramatically
- if they don't seat with each other they may fail which is what I suspect happened in your load. The seal above can be damage by the seal below slamming into the sealing edge and if the seal below isn't supported it may deform and fail.

The belled slug looks to me as though it hit soft dirt or sand backwards and you mentioned the "ricochet" sound which implies the slug was tumbling badly in the air. If the seal fail then blow by can cut up the wad too and that could result in a tumbling slug. A bit of speculation on my part but I have examined enough failed wads to get a feel for what is going wrong.

I would back it all up, get a published load or at least a proven to work load, and use all the same components and powder charge then see what happens. Chances are it will work.

Longbow

[swheeler]

890668906789068

I used cci 209 primer. Also, the powder was dry and the shells were not damp when loaded. That slug with the skirt expaned to 1+ inch is a rear impact or something other than obturation, no 12 ga has a bore anywhere near that dia. As far as a slug landing 50 ft from muzzle I have no idea, sounds goofy;) Got some 872 marked as Hs6?

[Bullshop Junior]

Very strange indeed. Ive never gried loading slugs in shot cups in a rifled barrel, i have had bettee luck with full bore slugs.

[tomme boy]

The Federal buckshot hulls have more room in the hull than ANY other shell made. Including the Gold Medal with a plastic base.

[pipehand]

The Federal buckshot hulls have more room in the hull than ANY other shell made. Including the Gold Medal with a plastic base.

That explains the extra gas seal added. I would have left the wad petals uncut, and just added nitro wads under the slug to bring it to crimp height.

The pic of the base expanded slug reminds me of the results from using too much powder and a 38 special hollow based wadcutter fired out of 2" revolver- the gas pressure at the muzzle is enough to expand the base when it is no longer contained by the barrel. Happens with Minie balls in rifled muskets using too much black powder, too.

If muzzle pressure caused that in a 24" barreled shotgun, I don't even want to think about what the chamber pressure was. That and the powder gases would have to be bypassing the wad(s) and acting directly on the hollow base of the Lee slug.

Is it possible this one belled slug was loaded into the shell backwards, and then fired into a container of water?

[SuperBlazingSabots]

Hello Kingemandigger, is your Winchester ranger with 24inch slug bbl a rifled barrel or a smooth bore with sights?

Lets back off a bit and start over again, I suspect your forcing cones are rough and those tool marks can rip or damage the wads too. lets polish them:
Please read my post #495 here:
http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?150140-VdoMemorie-Blazing-Sabot!/page25
If your barrel is a smooth bore did you run your safety check of pushing your slug in wad without a nitro card backwards like this:
http://i232.photobucket.com/albums/ee75/Dantebeowulf/Wadslugfitinbarrelcopy.jpg (http://s232.photobucket.com/user/Dantebeowulf/media/Wadslugfitinbarrelcopy.jpg.html)
It should require 6 to 10 lbs pressure to push it through, try pushing it gently to see if you have any rough spots first as it hits the forcing cones. If the combo is too tight then your wad selection is a wrong one!
If its too loose then you can't expect any accuracy and could be faced with a over bored barrel.

By now you should be able to find the culprit.

I have been using the 1 inch paper method to counteract this stupid problem for quite some time:
http://i232.photobucket.com/albums/ee75/Dantebeowulf/Loosefittingwadscopy_zps93272de6.jpg (http://s232.photobucket.com/user/Dantebeowulf/media/Loosefittingwadscopy_zps93272de6.jpg.html)
Please read my post # 509 here:
http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?150140-VdoMemorie-Blazing-Sabot!/page26

We slug shooters are faced with a very difficult challenge as we can't buy the right components to assemble slugs, made for success and efficiency.
So whats the difference between the Big three companies and a Elite Musketeer like us trying to load our own, for one they are filthy rich and can afford to spend lots of money, I'm by the Grace of God not rich but he's been good to me.
1. The big three only have to set up one load and components for just one powder to get the load efficiency to market!
2. Where as we are setting up loads and components for at least 10 to 14 different powders.
3. We need to use only new straight walled hulls for our Nitro Express Slug loads and use the once fired hulls for buck shot loads and you will still be saving a lot as opposed to paying $4 to 5 a pop.

If we want to really be successful with our own home cooked then we need all components custom tailored and specially manufactured just for our own needs, on the other hands we the Elite are just a few and not united enough to make it worthwhile to set up a production shop just to fulfill our own needs and will require a lot of money and yet no guarantee of even recovering the money back ! ! ! !

Our Papa Elite Musketeer Ed Hubel did not make any money on those Sabots, rather lost money, left and right!
A man who is 100 times more powerful with his knowledge and known all over!

By now you have learned a lot and can turn around and show us.

Best of luck!

Feel free to read my post on faster buck shot loads here:
http://castboolits.gunloads.com/show...uck+shot+loads
&
VdoMemories Blazing Buck & Ball or Buck & Slugs post here:
http://castboolits.gunloads.com/show...zing+buck+ball

Be on the look out for more pure Gold!

Passing the torch of knowledge is something done out of genetic responsibility!

Hoping it helps.
Best regards,
Ajay Madan
Super Blazing Sabots
BlazingSabots@Gmail.com
http://www.facebook.com/BlazingSabots?ref=hl[/url]
http://slugshooting.accountsupport.com/[/url] ... wforum.php
http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthr[/url] ... ot!/page1
http://www.shotgunworld.com/bbs/view...f=118&t=196961[/url]
http://www.deeranddeerhunting.com/fo...p?f=43&t=39246[/url]
http://www.go2gbo.com/forums/slug-gu...old-is-gold-!/[/url]
-Elite Group of Slug Shooter's
We all, who take slug loading seriously are a dedicated family, who have taken it upon ourselves to perfect our tech. We experiment to find better techniques and share our knowledge.
Location: New Jersey. USA / Frankfort, W.Germany / London, UK

[kingemandigger]

Stop! Powder mixed up? Barrel OK? Is HS-6 appropriate for 7/8 oz? Damp hulls? 89168
Nope, no powder mixup, hulls dry as anything, and I am beginning to think that HS-6 is just too slow of a powder for a light piece of lead like that, with a very cushiony wad column.


What is groove diameter. If it is small like a lot of replacement
rifled barrels it will tear up stuff.
What does the OD of the wad measure with the Lee in it.
What was the temp of the cases and the gun.
That slug and wad problem can be due to faulty 2 stage ignition.
WHICH IS NOT SAFE.. Don't do it with that combo.
Try a slower flake or stick powder, like Blue Dot or Steel.ED
89170
Good advice, a different powder like blue dot (which I have plenty of but with the current powder shortage want to save it for my 45 colt loads) or steel (which I currently have plenty of and am not using for much - would love some recipes for that). The image above is me trying to push slug wad combo into bbl. That is as far as it will go. Looks like a good fit to me. Gun was normal temp. and there were no over-pressure signs. There was two stage ignition of a few shots, which was pretty alarming...


Something very strange going on there. First, is that a published recipe you used?
Longbow - I used the data that came with the slug mold, however I used a 12s3 wad instead of a 12s0 wad for column height reasons. I figured that they were relatively the same and my loads had a good safety margin to slightly deviate. As for the gas seal, I was not using gold metal hulls, just standard federal buckshot hulls, which are pretty thin, thus the gas seal. Your comment on gs to wad relationship is good advice. perhaps a waxed card or nitro card in-between them would help, especially if I switch to a less bulky powder... I will make another load and stick to published data, perhaps with AA hulls and wads, and see if it makes a difference.

To conclude, I will likely proceed with another powder, perhaps steel, as much as I would rather fix this problem. I'll load up some different loads and be sure to post as soon as I can test them. As far as I can tell, this is an interesting anomaly. Some of the facets of this can be explained, some can't, like the massive amount of unburnt powder. Thanks for all the comments, and does anyone have any good loads for steel powder? This is one that I only use for 3 in. duck loads, and
thus have some available for use in slug loads.

[FullTang]

890668906789068

I used cci 209 primer. Also, the powder was dry and the shells were not damp when loaded.

Since your problem with all of these loads was poor ignition and powder burn, the primer is the most likely cause, especially if it was a little chilly that day. The regular CCI primer is pretty weak; most of these loads call for a Fed 209A or CCI Magnum primer; those are much stronger than a standard primer, and this is critical with slower powders. The smallest charge with a Win 209 primer is 42 grains, and the regular CCI is even weaker than a Win 209. Your primer simply doesn't have enough oomph to get the party started with a smaller charge and this light load, so you're getting squibs. This is a problem with these light slug loads in general---the official recipes are trying to get hunting velocities with a light load using slow-burning powders. 22-24 grains of Green Dot will run much more consistently with a standard primer, but you should just use a regular straight-wall hull like a Fiocchi; that Federal hull is way bigger than you need. You can skip the BPGS, too, since you won't need to fill up all the extra room in a regular hull.

[SuperBlazingSabots]

Hello Kingemandigger, you will need to complete the push through test with a wooden dowell all the way to get your findings, not just . . . . .
that is only if your barrel is a smooth bore for safety, your safety!
Nothing wrong with the HS-6 powder as its a good time tested powder and works wonders at times!
http://i1317.photobucket.com/albums/t629/BlazingSabots/Paperwraparoundcopy_zps16377590.jpg (http://s1317.photobucket.com/user/BlazingSabots/media/Paperwraparoundcopy_zps16377590.jpg.html)
Any time when using two wads you will need to fill the voids with stronger firmer nitro cards as shown in the picture:
http://i1317.photobucket.com/albums/t629/BlazingSabots/DSC09656copy_zpscadf35d9.jpg (http://s1317.photobucket.com/user/BlazingSabots/media/DSC09656copy_zpscadf35d9.jpg.html)
Loading a slug or sabot is not easy as its call for some creative thinking, which is good as this is how we train ourselves into being a better Nitro Express loaders and value what we do.

Passing the torch of knowledge is something done out of genetic responsibility!

Hoping it helps.
Best regards,
Ajay Madan
Super Blazing Sabots
BlazingSabots@Gmail.com
http://www.facebook.com/BlazingSabots?ref=hl[/url]
http://slugshooting.accountsupport.com/[/url] ... wforum.php
http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthr[/url] ... ot!/page1
http://www.shotgunworld.com/bbs/view...f=118&t=196961[/url]
http://www.deeranddeerhunting.com/fo...p?f=43&t=39246[/url]
http://www.go2gbo.com/forums/slug-gu...old-is-gold-!/[/url]
-Elite Group of Slug Shooter's
We all, who take slug loading seriously are a dedicated family, who have taken it upon ourselves to perfect our tech. We experiment to find better techniques and share our knowledge.
Location: New Jersey. USA / Frankfort, W.Germany / London, UK

[jmort]

"The regular CCI primer is pretty weak"

Never have had a problem with the CCI 209's. You may be thinking of the CCI 209 TS.

http://www.armbrust.acf2.org/primersubs.htm

[longbow]

Did you recover any of the BPI gas seals? If they are badly distorted or burned that would answer some questions.

I use a lot of Blue Dot... or at least was, I am now trying out SR4756.

I have used Blue Dot in moderate loads with slug weights down to 1 oz. with no particular problems... except when I decided to try using nitro card wads over the powder instead of a plastic gas seal. That didn't go so well. I could tell from the report that the powder did not burn well and found unburned powder in the bore after firing. Too much leakage past the nitro card wads. All the loads using nitro card wads and no plastic gas seal gave poor powder burn and erratic performance. That's the reason for my comment on the stacked wad/gas seal. If the seal or lips get damaged then there is leakage and low pressure which can result in poor powder burn.

Hah! Recently I decided to use up some left over shotcups after having cut the plastic gas seal off them for some full bore slug loads. So, I used a wad slug in the shotcup with no cushion leg over a soft fiber wad and two 1/8" nitro card wads. While the loads seemed to function fine the shotcups were shredded by gas leakage showing actual melting of petals. Powder this time was SR4756.

No experience here with Steel powder but I believe it likes pressure so is probably suited to heavy loads. turbo1889 has posted info on a variety loads including Steel, If you do a search you should find them.

Longbow

[dverna]

The obvious thing is to check your scale and powder drops.

If the scale is good and the powder drops are correct, you have contaminated powder. Easy to check. Load some light loads with another powder and see how they shoot.

Slug fit and minor powder migration are not going to give you squib loads.

Don Verna

[FullTang]

"The regular CCI primer is pretty weak"

Never have had a problem with the CCI 209's. You may be thinking of the CCI 209 TS.

http://www.armbrust.acf2.org/primersubs.htm

Nothing wrong with CCI primers, but the recipe calls for a CCI 209M primer---that's the magnum version, and it has lots more "brisance". The larger hull could be a factor as well---this will lower pressures compared to a Gold Medal hull.

Alliant Steel has the same problem, by the way. I just did a test load with 10 rounds of 485 grain 0.69 round balls loaded with a relatively low charge of Steel and Fiocchi 616 primers. Half were bloopers, the other half were nice and stout and worked just the way they were supposed to---so there can be a fine line between successful combustion and a blooper, especially with these slow-burn powders.

[kingemandigger]

CCI Magnum Primer - Got it, for some reason I didn't think of that. Great Idea. Also, I'll use AAs and AA wad for my next load. These should work better.
Also, great idea about the nitro cards b/w the GS and Wad. I'll include that in my next loads.

This is what I am thinking for my subsequent loading.
- Win AA HS hull
- CCI 209M primer
- Win Pink AA wad
- 38-40 grains HS-6
- Nitro card on top of BPGS (if it is needed for height)

Thoughts

[kingemandigger]

Interesting thing that happened to you

Alliant Steel has the same problem, by the way. I just did a test load with 10 rounds of 485 grain 0.69 round balls loaded with a relatively low charge of Steel and Fiocchi 616 primers. Half were bloopers, the other half were nice and stout and worked just the way they were supposed to

This was my experience, total inconsistency, probably related to a slight difference in powder charge. HS-6 for me probably wasn't the culprit, just my components and loading techniques.

I figure since AAs have a slight taper and are thicker, I will improve my results...
Ain't abandoning the old powder yet

[kingemandigger]

How about 21 grains of Red Dot with standard CCI209

[SuperBlazingSabots]

Hello Kingemandigger, don't just jump to 38-40 grains HS-6 after you change the primer to a magnum primer, start low say 34, 35 and 36 gr of HS-6 or else you too could get smacked by the mule ( in this case being your gun )

Easy, do not rush, you have no bus to catch!
Try using newer hulls for slugs.

Hoping it helps.
Best regards,
Ajay Madan
Super Blazing Sabots
BlazingSabots@Gmail.com
http://www.facebook.com/BlazingSabots?ref=hl[/url]
http://slugshooting.accountsupport.com/[/url] ... wforum.php
http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthr[/url] ... ot!/page1
http://www.shotgunworld.com/bbs/view...f=118&t=196961[/url]
http://www.deeranddeerhunting.com/fo...p?f=43&t=39246[/url]
http://www.go2gbo.com/forums/slug-gu...old-is-gold-!/[/url]
-Elite Group of Slug Shooter's
We all, who take slug loading seriously are a dedicated family, who have taken it upon ourselves to perfect our tech. We experiment to find better techniques and share our knowledge.
Location: New Jersey. USA / Frankfort, W.Germany / London, UK

[longbow]

What Ajay said and I will add, unless that is a published pressure tested recipe with AA hulls, you cannot just swap components around and think things will be okay. They ,might but then again they might not. The Win AA hulls have a smaller internal volume and will produce higher pressures with same powder charge and other components as in your Federal hulls.

Same applies to primers. Just a simple change of primer can change chamber pressure by 3000 PSI. That's okay if you have an 11,000 PSI load that drops by 3000 PSI but not so good if you have a 11,000 PSI load that sees and increase of 3000 PSI!

Used published proven data to start with and don't change components randomly. It can get dangerous.

Longbow

[HBAR2989]

How about 21 grains of Red Dot with standard CCI209

I use 20 gr, reddot, with a 12so wad, in black remington hulls. Shoots good for me, pretty flat out to 100 yards.

[brassrat]

Sorry to butt in, especially never loading slugs, or any shotgun, in 30 yrs. Maybe just change one variable at a time, so you know. Go with primer change.

[hubel458]

For Steel loads you can start with your duck loads,
As I assume your duck loads are much heavier than
the Lee and wadcup. IF cases extract ok go up.
We run our super sabot with up to 55gr on 3" case..
You do want get stronger primers.

Now the ultimate powder, which is easiest by far on
wads and seals is IMR 4759, and fires off fine
with magnum primers in 12ga. Start with 75gr.
And though the easiest on seals, wads, you get
more speed.

If forcing cone is rough, you fix with a small, two
petal, brake cylinder hone and a drill.Ed

[FullTang]

CCI Magnum Primer - Got it, for some reason I didn't think of that. Great Idea. Also, I'll use AAs and AA wad for my next load. These should work better.
Also, great idea about the nitro cards b/w the GS and Wad. I'll include that in my next loads.

This is what I am thinking for my subsequent loading.
- Win AA HS hull
- CCI 209M primer
- Win Pink AA wad
- 38-40 grains HS-6
- Nitro card on top of BPGS (if it is needed for height)

Thoughts

Here's what Hodgdon says:

Lead Slugs 12ga 7/8 oz. Buckbuster HS-6 33.5 grains Win. 209 WAA12R 10,300 PSI 1450 fps

I think the old Buckbuster slug is close enough to a Lee slug to trust this recipe; the use of the tapered hull allows you to use a regular (non-magnum) primer and a reduced charge of HS6, and you'll still get good velocity at a safe pressure, which ought to give you a good powder burn. Personally, I'd feel comfortable using the CCI 209 (non-M) primer in this, also---but that's up to you. You won't have any extra room in AA hulls for the BP gas seal, and with the pink wad you may not even have room for a nitro card; this recipe calls for the WAA12R heavy-load wad, which is now only available as a Claybuster clone. Those work well with Lee slugs and a nitro card (or 2.) It should be safe to sub in the pink wad, since that would reduce pressures a bit; however, the clones don't fit well with Lee slugs because of the ridges inside the petals (esp CB.)

20 grains of Red Dot in a Win AA with the pink wad would work, too; it's listed as an International Load with Alliant:
24 gram (7/8) load 1345 fps CB 1100-12 wad Win. 209 primer 20.0 grains Red Dot 9600 psi
As above, the original WAA12L wad fits the slugs best (if you can find it!)

Good luck, and let us know how round 2 works out!

FullTang

[jmort]

I agree, if you are using AA HS Claybuster is the wad to get. It is tapered/beveled for the base insert. It is CB0178-12 aka WAA12L which should be good for the 7/8 oz. I read some posts that it works well for the elusive .69 RB. Will see.
http://www.claybusterwads.com/index.php/product-by-style/by-style-winchester

[kingemandigger]

Thanks for the posts. The AA load suggested by FullTang sounds like a keeper. I'll try it and hopefully post results soon.

[longbow]

Note the significantly lighter powder charge of HS-6 in the Win AA hull in the load FullTang has provided ~ 33.5 grs. compared to your 38 to 40 grs. for the straight walled Federal.

Hulls make a huge difference to load performance and pressure as can primers.

Play but play safe!

Longbow

[evan price]

I agree, if you are using AA HS Claybuster is the wad to get. It is tapered/beveled for the base insert. It is CB0178-12 aka WAA12L which should be good for the 7/8 oz. I read some posts that it works well for the elusive .69 RB. Will see.
http://www.claybusterwads.com/index.php/product-by-style/by-style-winchester



Do NOT get the Claybuster copy of the Winchester grey WAA12L wad (7/8oz).
The genuine Winchester wads, the petals are smooth and flat in cross section. If you look into the shot cup it is circular at the base.

The Claybusters wads, the petals have a rib that runs vertically from the base of the shot cup out toward the tip, in the middle of each wad finger. It's not a big rib, but it is there if you look.
This makes the shot cup no longer round inside, and the fingers will not fit snugly against the side of the slug. It makes the slug/wad combo bulge out, and gives you torn up wad fingers and accuracy issues.
The Claybusters pink copy of the WAA12SL also has this rib, that the genuine Winchester wad does not.

I find that the Claybusters wads, for the reason of that rib, do not give acceptable loading with slugs. Shot loads, no problem, the shot is loose and will shift in the shot cup. A slug won't do that. Take the time and spend the money to get genuine Winchester wads.

I use the Winchester WAA12L 7/8 oz grey wad for Lee 1-oz slug, in Remington taper-wall unihull (NITRO, STS, Gun Club, Field) with 20 grains of Alliant PROMO. Crimps up nice on the MEC and works good.

Actually, I switched to the WIN-AA-HS hulls with the same load, because I want to not mixup slugs with my trap loads. Now, the Remington hulls (any) are trap, and all the WIN-AA-HS hulls are slugs. I was worried about firing a slug on the trap line.

[evan price]

I use 20 gr, reddot, with a 12so wad, in black remington hulls. Shoots good for me, pretty flat out to 100 yards.

The Federal 12SO wad is for straight wall hulls, this does not fit too tightly in Remington hulls which are tapered?

[Garyshome]

This is not a disaster, it's just a setback! Lesson learned.
__________________________________________________ _____________________________________

I can only be distracted if I let them distract me! I can only be lied to if I let them lie to me!