spur up or spur down

[Brittany]

I put my spur down, reason I want the smooths part of the ball up, it is going through the air first. How do I know the spur is centered down, I put the rb on the bench, on the spur and put a dot of black marker on them.

Charlie :castmine:

[lancem]

After shooting a blue million round balls both ways and some wrong ways in the end I don't think there is much difference. The quality and fit of the patch will make 100 times more difference.

[dondiego]

Spurs up or down, my horse don't like them either way!

I put my sprue up for my ML.

[johnson1942]

keep them rolling, thats the second one ive read this morning that kept me laughing for 5 minutes. i was married to a speech path. english masters degree lady once, i got that every day 10 times a day. that was a lot of years ago. my english is better now and i also learned french, im still laughing.

[OverMax]

I've short-started my sprue's in side-ways on a few occasions having one to many barley pops. But upside down never occurred to me. I guess there's always a better way.

[waksupi]

The rear of the boolit is the guidance system. Sprue up.

[jmort]

Don't doubt it, but in shotguns most recommend sprue down for the big balls

[mooman76]

I don't really think it matters much either way but I shoot Lees that don't have a spur, just a flat spot, so I've never pay much attention to it.

[Hanshi]

I put my spur down, reason I want the smooths part of the ball up, it is going through the air first. How do I know the spur is centered down, I put the rb on the bench, on the spur and put a dot of black marker on them.

Charlie :castmine:




Ballistically it makes no difference whatsoever. But by seating the ball sprue up you will always know where it is, if it's centered and that it's not against the bore.

[wgr]

just do it the same way every time and enjoy

[KyBill]

Had the same conversation here for my 56 cal smooyhbore spur up makes a good guide for the rod

[nanuk]

The rear of the boolit is the guidance system. Sprue up.

I think the "rear" that steers is the part that is the last to touch barrel steel.

I doubt the center of the base does much, unless it would be out of balance.

I DO remember reading, where if the nose of the roundball was damaged, accuracy went wild.

I wish I could find that article.
IIRC it was in a ML manual/book by Fadala... but my memory fails me now

[Gary Carter]

I remember reading long time ago that with the sprue down centered is the most accurate. However in the same article it also stated that it is almost impossible to make sure the sprue is completely centered so the next best is to have the sprue centered out. Has to do with balance of the round ball. I have always loaded sprue up, and with my solid brass ramrod I figure I end up without a sprue anyway.

[GREENCOUNTYPETE]

I put sprue up I am going to get a flat spot fromt he ram rod any way might as well only have one , if you follow the logic of conicals or cartridge boolit that you can have a big flat nose , a round nose or a pointy nose boolit in the same barrel and they shoot accurately , so long as the last part of the boolit the tail is good it doesn't steer the boolit off course

you can see the air flow in high speed stop action photography , and the nose makes little difference in the air distortions , but the tail can cause a ripple

it probably matters less in round balls as we just don't shoot them that far or spin them that fast although i do shoot them in a 1:28 with decent results sprue up , and even when we do shoot them far they are already falling sub sonic and breaking the trans sonic barrier that will cause some disturbance to the flight

[h8dirt]

Sprue up. If you are not getting a small flat spot on top of the ball after it's started in the bore, it's too small or your patch is too thin.

[HNSB]

most recommend sprue down for the big balls

This seems like it should be the punchline to a joke.

[dondiego]

Sprue up. If you are not getting a small flat spot on top of the ball after it's started in the bore, it's too small or your patch is too thin.

What do you mean by a "small flat spot"? Do you mean the sprue, or are you referring to actually making a dent in the ball while seating it?

[Char-Gar]

I put my spur down, reason I want the smooths part of the ball up, it is going through the air first. How do I know the spur is centered down, I put the rb on the bench, on the spur and put a dot of black marker on them.

Charlie :castmine:

I thought this was a cowboy question and was trying to figure out what you where talking about. I have some familiarity with both "spurs" and "sprues", so it took me a while to break the code.

On round balls or doubled ended bullets, folks load them with the sprues up. The powder gas needs a uniform surface on which to push. Accuracy is better than way.

[Omnivore]

Hmm, yeah some of the commenters are using that word; "Spur". The term is sprue, pronounced /Sproo/, rhymes with "stew". It's a general casting term, referring to the hole into which you pour the molten metal, and also the solid metal shaft that remains and must be cut off after it's frozen. What we refer to as the "sprue" on a lead ball is the sprue remnant. That is if we want to pick nits. The sprue is cut off completely on other bullet designs, but the round ball make complete removal virtually impossible unless you want to end up with a flat spot that cuts down into the circumference of the ball (I have a 36 caliber ball mold that does just that, but the flat spot still has to be oriented on top, same as a protruding sprue nub, otherwise you could get some blow-by there).

"Sprues", "gates" and "risers" are typical in other casting techniques, but in bullet casting we only need the sprue.

[GREENCOUNTYPETE]

What do you mean by a "small flat spot"? Do you mean the sprue, or are you referring to actually making a dent in the ball while seating it?

yes ,how much depends on the contour of you short starter but best accuracy seems to come with a patch that is tight enough that the starter leaves a flat spot on the ball , with other contoured short starters it leaves a ring because it is cupped , but soft lead with a tight patch often leaves a mark on the front of the ball

my hand gets sore from the ball starter after 50 rounds

[dondiego]

If I have to use a short starter, I feel that my load is too tight. I hate using a starter. I like to start the patch/ball combo with my thumb and then just ram it home. I started shooting BP while a kid in the mid 60's. I had never heard of a starter until way later. If you are leaving an indentation on your ball while starting it into the barrel that is a very tight load indeed!

[waksupi]

If I have to use a short starter, I feel that my load is too tight. I hate using a starter. I like to start the patch/ball combo with my thumb and then just ram it home. I started shooting BP while a kid in the mid 60's. I had never heard of a starter until way later. If you are leaving an indentation on your ball while starting it into the barrel that is a very tight load indeed!

Absolutely agree. Most of the bulged barrels I have seen over the years, were caused by using short starters. The old timers, aside from bench shooters never used them, I can see no reason to.

[fouronesix]

I guess the reason it causes a bulged barrel is not the use of the short starter but forgetting to ram the ball down on top of the powder- same with any BP load.

I get better accuracy with a slightly tighter patch/ball combo so using a short starter simply helps start the ball without wrestling with a long ram rod to do it. No more or less hc than using one for starting a conical.

As far a "spur" up or down. Most spur rowel shanks are either straight or down.

I put the sprue "nub" up when seating a roundball. As has been posted, putting the nub down leaves doubt about alignment since it's hidden in the bore. What's easier yet is using swaged balls that have no sprue nub.

[KCSO]

If you put the spur down the horse will go faster... If you put the sprue up you can center it easier and you have the smooth part on the bottom where it belongs.

[Dakota's Dad]

I sand the sprue off with a bit of 80 grit glued to the side of my patch knife handle.


:-P

actually, the molds I use are LEE, and they don't leave a sprue. I also, right after getting my 1st .54, was at a gun show (back when they could be worth going to..) and a fellow from a GS was there and had a bunch of random/loose/won't/can't sell stuff in a big box. There were more than 30 boxes of RCBS swagged round balls in there. I dug one up, he pointed out that the whole world "shoots in-lines and sabots now" and how he couldn't get rid of these.. I offered him $1 a box, he countered with 2.. bought at 1.50 if "I bought them all".. still shooting those 10 years or so later..

[Hanshi]

If you have a mold that leaves a sprue you can make the balls uniform by tumbling them in a regular tumbler. I use a 40 year old Thumbler Tumbler for mine. Lee molds, of course, don't leave one. It's also much easier to keep the ball centered if you load sprue up. I also like the tightest ball/patch combo that can still be loaded with the underbarrel wood ramrod. The tighter the combo the cleaner the bore stays as each load wipes fouling when the ball is seated. This way you never have more than one shot's worth of fouling in the bore.

I always have loaded tight even long before I ever heard of a short starter. My fingers aren't that strong, now, and I need that short starter.

[mooman76]

I generally don't make mine so tight that I need a short starter either but I use it because it's easier.