Official Tri Ball loading sequence

[haff202]

I have searched for a while to find out how and what and where to purchase parts for the Tri-ball 3 inch shot shell 12 gauge load. There was a post about putting a 20 gauge overshot card in the wad first??? Would someone please retype a step by step loading and where to buy and what to buy with all diameters {.025} .600 shot.

[jmort]

Here, the first couple pages cover most info you need
http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?47198-Tri-Ball-Revisited!

[pipehand]

Try this link:
http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?47198-Tri-Ball-Revisited!&p=514490&viewfull=1#post514490

[pipehand]

In his best Maxwell Smart voice- "Missed it by THAT much."

The 20 gauge overshot wad is supposed to go in the Tri-Ball III thaT is loaded in the 3&1/2" hull with a fold crimp. My only experience is with the 3" load that uses the roll crimp after using a 12 gauge overshot wad.

[jmort]

"Missed it by THAT much."

That happens to me all the time. Better to get get good info twice than get no response at all.

[haff202]

In the 3" Tri-Ball load do not use a 20 gauge overshot card in the bottom of the hull. Do use a 12 gauge overshot card on top and roll crimp only? I want to get it right.

[tommag]

I believeyou use a 20 guage overshot card in the bottom of the wad, to help protect the wad from damage. I loaded mine that way and they worked fine. James' instructions are found in the two links posted above.

In the 3" Tri-Ball load do not use a 20 gauge overshot card in the bottom of the hull. Do use a 12 gauge overshot card on top and roll crimp only? I want to get it right.

[cpileri]

the sequence I used for 3 and 3.5" loads, as described in my test threads:

3-inch:
3" straight walled hull,
Fio 616 primer
28gr Blue Dot
Orange TUPR123 wad from Precision Reloading dusted w hexagonal boron nitride (instead of mica), split the petals all the way down w knife
3x.60 hard cast balls tapped down such that no space space/buffer was between the bottom ball and the wadcup nor between each ball (i.e. ball-to-wad and ball-to-ball contact maintained)
2.2cc PR Buffer so that it just covered the top ball, vibrated down while holding the balls firmly in the wad (and hull) w a dowel
12ga clear overshot disk
roll crimp

and 3.5-inch:
3.5" straight wall hull
Fed 209-A primer
31gr Alliant Steel (*)
Orange TUPR123 wad from Precision reloading dusted w hexagonal boron nitride (instead of mica), split the petals all the way down w knife
20ga 1/8” card wad smooshed down hard into base of wad cup such that is had a nice little curve for the first ball to sit in and hugged the base of the wad cup well
3x.60 hard cast balls tapped down such that no space space/buffer was between the bottom ball and the wadcup nor between each ball (i.e. ball-to-wad and ball-to-ball contact maintained)
Enough PR Buffer so that it just covered the top ball, vibrated down while holding the balls firmly in the wad (and hull) w a dowel
1/16” cork Overshot disk
Fold crimp

(*) Note: this charge is especially maximum if using .610 balls, as they are heavier and I got high-pressure signs using soft hulls w this load. If I use .610 balls again, I would switch to 3.5” federal hulls and use 31gr Steel.

I had nothing shoved up into the base of the orange wad (over the powder, if you look at it that way). These patterned well out of smoothe and rifled bores.

Hope his helps.
C-

[savage308]

I have been trying to get this load to be accurate and have had no great luck. Im using a 870 with an 18 1/2 " smooth barrel with cyl. bore and rifle sights. I have tried the 3" fiocchi hulls and the exact recipe and it gives pressure signs sometimes and then not sometimes. Very inconsistent and not good grouping. im loading some tonight with 26 gr. and 24 gr. blue dot and see how that goes. I am having good results with the LEE 1oz slug in BPI 2 3/4 hulls WAA12F114 wads with 40 gr. blue dot . 2" at 40 yds.
The tri-ball load is all over the place. The first shot may group at 3" about 4" high from the bullseye then the next shot will be 2" group 6" low and so on. I an beginning to think this is going to be a less than 20 yd load and try something else.

[cpileri]

Dixie recommends tighter chokes, down to IC or even Modified; but most do best w IC i think.

Right off the homepage: Chokes for Dixie Tri-Ball loads can run from the standard Full Choke of .685"/.690", all the way down to .660", depending on the size of pattern the hunter desires

C-

[cpileri]

Or as seen here:
http://www.dixieslugs.com/forum1/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=116&sid=e7ee850e5583c908ecb857039a2c6205

The best choke constriction for the Dixie Tri-Ball loads seem the be at a .675" constriction. This allows the balls and wad to align without damage to the wad. I am still asked about chokes down to .660". You will not damage the .660" choke. but in most cases two of the balls will be very close, with the third ball hitting some distance out.
Regards, James

[mac60]

I loaded a few up with all components as recommended, being very careful to not get any buffer under the bottom ball or between the balls. I proceeded to fire a few from a Rem. 870 with IC choke. The recoil was what I would call heavy (more than a 3" slug load) and the balls hit the 50 yd berm with about a 6 foot spread. I immediately gave up on it. I still have all the components and would like to give it another try. What might I be doing wrong here?

[cpileri]

if you could recover some components, might tell a story.
C-

[mac60]

At the time it never occurred to me to look for fired wads. Results were so dismal, I just let it go. If I decide to give it another try I'll try to find some fired wads.

[haff202]

I was getting the impression that a .125 20 gauge overshot card was put in the wad first before two balls. This is the 3 inch Tri-ball load.
The hexagonal boron nitride is new to me. Other post said Mica of some form. I am going to order everything I need to build this load from Precision Reloading for I have no supplies to build this. I do have a virgin Lee .600 mold and 150 pounds of WW amd 50 pounds of lino lead.

[haff202]

Youtube needs more Tri-ball videos.

[RMc]

Let's see:

The reason for placing a thin 20 ga. overshot wad in the plastic wad base before the .60" balls are loaded, is twofold:

-Reinforce the wad base - especially in the 3.5" loads.

-Aid in the smooth release of the bottom ball. It makes sense that a round ball in a round plastic wad base, forced together under the pressure of firing may create a release problem.

Also the TUPR123 Orange Wad, from Precision Reloading, is thicker than the wad first used. When you crank the choke down much tighter than .675" you will start seeing cut wad petals and patterns with one ball striking outside the pattern. In any case, if you are getting cut wad petals and one ball out out of pattern, your choke is too tight. My personal 870 fired the bullseye target pattern shown on the Dixie Slugs website. That was from an extended full (.695") choke aimed with a vent rib and bead. Choke is not a critical factor - many great patterns have been noted from modified, improved modified and full choke constrictions. I will note that extended chokes with a parallel section seem to pattern most consistently. Most of my pattern testing has been conducted with Trulock and Briley extended choke tubes.

Precision Spherical Buffer is large enough not to migrate under the bottom ball during transit or just riding around in the glove box of your truck. Early factory rounds with a different buffer which worked perfectly for James, were blowing through the wad after shipment for testing . The problem was buffer migration in transit. Further testing found PSB buffer stopped this problem. Stick with PSB buffer, it works perfectly in this application.

Don't forget to Mica dust the wad inside and out before inserting into the case. Mica is available from Ballistic Products as Mica Wad Slick.

Lee .600" ball molds work just fine for this load with WW or melted magnum grade 6% antimony target size shot with tin added for mold fill out. The latest Lee .600" ball mold is a double cavity mold - much improved as most here know.

A set of Lee powder dippers makes for easier loading as well.

Cheddite primed 12 Ga. hulls and overshot card wads in 12 and 20 ga. are available from Graf & Sons, Precision Reloading and Ballistic Products. Roll crimp heads are available from these sources as well. The latest two roller crimp head from Ballistic Products is the easiest to get a good closure on factory new Skivved hulls. The Precision Reloading roll crimp head produces a round edge roll crimp that works best with new Non-Skivved hulls or those trimmed down from longer hulls.

Some seem to get strung patterns when testing Tri-Ball 12 loads from a bench rest. We do know that a low bench tends to exaggerate recoil and relatively long barrel time (compared to modern rifles) can combine to cause problems.
I generally pattern test from a standing bench with the only rest being a sandbag on which I rest my hand which is grasping the forend.

With these heavy 945 grain payloads, I would following the pressure tested Dixie TriBall data exactly as posted by James.

See:
http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?47198-Tri-Ball-Revisited

Note: James did mention the 20ga. OS card under the bottom ball inside the shot cup as one of the "tricks" to loading Tri-Ball in the "Tri-Ball revisited" post.

I hope this helps


Ralph

[RMc]

At a Linebaugh Seminar near Jackson, MS a few years back:

The range had a heavy section of armor plate about 12" x 12" hung by chains at the 25 yard mark and those big .475 and .500 sixguns were really swinging that armor plate.

One of the guys said "Let's see what those Dixie TriBalls will do."

Then I fired a 3.5" Tri-Ball round at the steel target. The armor plate section swung back violently and wrapped itself around the support bar by the chains!

A lot of those big bore sixgun guys were impressed by the power of the Tri-Ball rounds.

Ralph

[haff202]

Santa picked up everything for 3 inch Tri-ball at Precision Reloading minus the Powder, .600 Lee mold, and the clear plastic disk .125 over shot card. The Lee dippers set of 15 was under 12 bucks. Using Mica instead of the other dusting product.

[RMc]

Santa picked up everything for 3 inch Tri-ball at Precision Reloading minus the Powder, .600 Lee mold, and the clear plastic disk .125 over shot card. The Lee dippers set of 15 was under 12 bucks. Using Mica instead of the other dusting product.

The 12ga Standard overshot card is used in Dixie Tri-Ball loads as is the 20 gauge overshot card -in this case used inside the shot cup under the bottom ball:

http://www.circlefly.com/html/products.html

http://www.ballisticproducts.com/PRODUCT-TITLE/productinfo/OS/12/

The latest roll crimp head used:
http://www.ballisticproducts.com/ExactaRoll-Double-Pin-Roll-Crimper-12ga/productinfo/ROLL12EX/

[cpileri]

I truly do hope these work for you, as i have been very happy with mine.
I meticulously load them, each step by hand. Not sure that would be a recipe for commercial success. but it worked in my case, in both smooth and fully rifled bores.
C-

[haff202]

The use of a overshot card in a 3 inch 12 gauge hull is to be placed on top of last ball then rolled crimped. Finished with one 3" Tri-ball load.
3 1/2 inch 12 gauge load...place a 20 gauge overshot card in the bottom of wad, load as told, and place a 12 gauge clear plastic disk as a overshot card on top and roll crimp. Putting a 20 gauge overshot card in the bottom of the wad of a 3" Tri-ball was not clear??????????

[RMc]

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?47198-Tri-Ball-Revisited!/page2

From Dixie Slugs:

"OK! Here is the exact recipe for the Tri-Ball in 3 1/2" hulls.....note I said exact!
(1) Cheddite 12 ga 3 1/2" primed hull.
(2) 32 grains (3.4 cc Lee Dipper) Alliant Steel powder.
(3) The Precision Reloading Orange (TUPRW123) wad.
(4) Most Important!....a 20 ga overshot disk in the inside bottom of the Orange wad. If you do not do this, the wad base will blow!
(5) Three .600" hard cast round balls.
(6) Buffer
(7) Important!....a 1/8" pure cork wad over the buffered balls
(8) Fold Crimp
This load runs about 1175'/" and patterns excellent!
Regards, James"
----------------------------------

Note: Use Precision Reloading's Spherical Shotshell Buffer and don't forget to dust the wads inside and out with Mica Wad Slick.


This should clarify loading Tri-Ball 3.5" buckshot.

Ralph

[RMc]

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?47198-Tri-Ball-Revisited!

From Dixie Slugs:

"The recipe for Tri-Ball is as follows:
(1) 12 ga 3" Cheddite, Fiocchi, or Federal Gol Metal hull
(2) 28/29 grs of Alliant Blue Dot
(3) Precision Reloading Orange Wad TUPRWW123
(4) Three .600" hard cast round balls
(5) Precision Reloading buffer
(6) Thin overshot wad.
The buffer is to be vibrated around the balls. The ball tapped tight in the wad so the bottom ball is snug in the wad. Wads are dusted with Motor Mica
Regards, James"

----------------------------------------

From the same thread:

----------------------------------------

"Another little trick in loading Tri-Ball.....drop a 20 gauge thin overshot disk into the bottom of the Orange Wad.

The sequence of loading the balls into the wad (in the hull) should be:
(1) Drop the balls in and tap them.
(2) Vibrate 2.2 cc of the buffer in.
(3) Hold a wood dowel on top of the balls and vibrate.
(4) Add enough buffer to just cover the ball.
(5) Tap again
The key to the entire operation is to be sure there is no buffer under the bottom ball....or between the balls.
As the man says...try different choke constrictions! If you get two ball cutting out in the target, but one ball out a few inches....too tight a choke! Ideal is when the balls make a nice even triangle.
Regards, James"

----------------------------------------------

New primed Cheddite 3" hulls are the standard bearer for this load.

Note: Three inch Tri-Ball Buckshot loads are Roll Crimped.

"...drop a 20 gauge thin overshot disk into the bottom of the Orange Wad."

This should clarify Loading Tri-Ball 3" buckshot loads.

Ralph

[jmort]

Thanks Ralph. Nice having you here

[RMc]

jmortimer,

Thank you.

----------------------------------

Going back through my notes...

Sometime back I fired a series of patterns from an unmodified Remington 870 Express with a 26" barrel, using one of the Briley extended "00B Full" (.695"), chokes. Including this first pattern pictured below, I placed three consecutive Tri-Ball loads into a 6.5 inch pattern at 40 yards. The most pleasant finding, from this series of three off hand shots, was discovering the combined 3 shot / 9 pellet pattern centered just two and half inches above the 6 o'clock point of aim on the 8" black - using just the bead and vent rib for sights.

The second smaller picture shows the size relationship between the Tri-Ball load and an equal weight of 00B pellets.

Ralph

91114

91115

[Buckshot Bill]

I've tried James' recipe using both the PR orange wad and the BPI multi metal wad in 3" with awful results. The recovered wads are mangled, bases blown etc. only 2 pellets on a 30" square board at 25 yards. Tried .700 and .690 choke velocity is low and recoil is very light, not anywhere near the recoil generated by the tri balls I bought from James sometime ago. I think the blown wad is reducing burn as there was some unburnt powder; or it may not be sealing properly for whatever reason. I have not tried the 20 ga card in the bottom of the wad like I just read here as I never seen him mention it in the 3" loading only the 3 1/2" so I guess i'll try that next. I thought it may have been bad primers in the pre-primed hulls so tried with two other types of primers to no avail. The wad is being hand seated with a dowel rod and not press seated if that might have something to do with it.

FWIW my load was

3" cheddite multi hull
28.5 grns blue dot
3" BPI multi metal / orange PR wad (tried both)
3 .600 roundballs tapped down snug and held there while fine buffer was vibrated around the balls until I could barely see the top ball.
1 overshot card, roll crimped with BPI roll crimp tool until tight/ rim touched card

[RMc]

Buckshot Bill,

"...fine buffer...?"

Fine ground buffer can easily migrate between the bottom ball and the wad. Problems due to fine buffer migration in transit stopped when spherical buffer was used.

Use Precision Reloading's Spherical Shotshell Buffer and Orange Wad - TUPRWW123. Mica dust the wad in order to reduce hull to wad start friction. And place a 20ga. overshot card inside the shotcup base under the bottom ball to reduce wad stress factors in this very powerful buckshot load.

This load must have the wad and the 3 hard cast balls in direct contact so that everything moves forward as a unit.

Give it another try, I think you will be pleased.

[RMc]

"The above load of 28 grs of Blue Dot, with the above components, has been pressure tested and gives right at 10,200 psi....well within the specs for 12 ga
3". Pressure testing done at Ballistic Research for the exact load above."

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?43463-12-bore-load-question&p=483319#post483319

[Hogtamer]

RMc,
Is there any data for a modified 2-ball load like this for 2 3/4" loads using Longshot powder. I had mixed results using 2 - .570 balls. One ball on and one flyer....

[RMc]

Hogtamer:

Not that I am aware of.

However, I would suggest consideration be given to the LBC43 wad and moving up to a .600" hard cast as a starting point for your two pellet load.

[RMc]

The Tri-Ball 12 gauge., 3" and 3.5" loads require exact assembly, but are not hard loads to assemble.

[RMc]

I just learned that James has Dixie Slugs up an running again.

[Hog Farm]

Why wouldn't a person use 0.690" round balls that would fit closer to the 12 gauge bore size?

[RMc]

Why wouldn't a person use 0.690" round balls that would fit closer to the 12 gauge bore size?

There are several reasons:

Three .600" (22 gauge) pellets weigh in at 2 1/8th ounces.

The steel shot type wad takes up any "windage" between pellet and bore size.

The size of the pellets combined with wad petal thickness make this load very choke friendly.

[doubledown]

I just want to bring up a point on group size. Early on I was having trouble getting all three balls to group well, I thought I was ok, I was using a .600 mold and slitting the wads to the bottom, dusted them with mica and used a 20 gauge card on the bottom. I kept pressure on them as I vibrated 2.2cc of PR spherical buffer.

It wasn't until I measured the balls, they were dropping as big as .611! I ordered a .595 mold and my groups shrunk immediately.The size of the balls is critical to a tight group in my experience, in both the 3" and 3 1/2" loads

Follow all the other great advice above but make sure your balls are a true .600 or even a little under and you will shrink your groups.

[cpileri]

haff202,
did you ever have any success w these?
C-

[RMc]

Important point for successful Tri-Ball handloads:

Make sure the 20 gauge thin card and bottom ball in your Tri-Ball handloads are firmly seated in the wad.

[hubel458]

quote- ''mixed results using 2 - .570 balls''

Our 12ga discarding super sabot works with 2 of those balls,
Within 4" at 25 yds. Hits about where we aim.Ed

[longbow]

Hogtamer:

I have at least one load recipe for a two ball 0.690" load. It is an "internet load" I got from shotgunworld.com or nitroexpress.com... oops! or maybe alldoubleguns.com. In any case, I know the guy that posted it and he is or used to be a gunsmith. Having said that I have not seen any pressure test info, nor have I used the load.

I have loaded slugs up to 800 grs. so not quite as heavy as two 0.690" balls at about 980 grs. Greg's heavy slug recipe (1000 grs. IIRC) or some of Ed Hubel's should be compatible if there is nothing else to compare to.

If you are interested I will PM it to you.

Longbow

[luke777]

I've got an order of components coming to me in Australia. Can't wait to get some rolled up and hit the pigs....HARD!! It's a LOT of hassle to import components to Australia but it'll be worth it.

[cpileri]

luke777,
if you could detail the process for importing into Australia, on another thread perhaps, it might be useful for reference by others- as that question comes up periodically.
If you have time.
C-