Lyman 358311

[Ben]

I bought a " box full " of molds sizers, H & I lube sizer dies, and a bottom pour pot a few days ago.

This 358311 double cav. mold was in the lot.

All the molds had rust on the outside , but the inside of the molds was rust free .

This one must be old ( it certainly looked old ), it cast a bit large at .360" ( which I like ).

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v494/haysb/0041280x768.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v494/haysb/0051280x768.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v494/haysb/0081280x768.jpg

Here is the bullet after being pushed through a Lee Push Thru .358" sizer :

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v494/haysb/0091280x768.jpg

It doesn't take very long to end up with a nice pile of these puppies.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v494/haysb/0021280x768.jpg

I think " Beagle " is a big fan of this particular bullet. It certainly has a generous lube ring.
I think this style has been around for a long time. Anyone with history on this mold, I'd like to read a bit on this one.

Ben

[felix]

Ben, I don't know much about history, but that boolit is the most accurate of all boolits I have shot out of the 357s around the house (4 or 5). Most accurate means 100 yard hits are the most consistent on off-hand targets seen with naked eyes and iron sights. It would be interesting to see what happens with a walking-about bolt gun, having a BR scope at that distance for authenticity. ... felix

Using the crimp grove as intended, the boolit is too long for N-frame Smiths, but ok for K-19. ... felix

[Ben]

Many thanks Felix.

[dubber123]

It is an old design, I have a single cavity Ideal, no vent grooves, and an even larger square lube groove. Now that I think of it, I believe I have an even older copy with the integral small handles. It is a very accurate design. I have a "new to me" pre model 14 K-38 that seems to like it, I shot a .560" 5 shot group from it the other day. Only 20 yds. but just resting off the car roof. Subsequent groups ran in the 1" range, but I'm rusty. Your example sounds like a winner!

[35remington]

In extensive shooting with two Microgroove 35 Remington Marlins, no other plainbase bullet touches its accuracy. Since your mould is marked Lyman it is likely somewhat newer than the 50's, when the name change went from Ideal to Lyman. I'd bet your mould is considerably newer.....the determination would be helped if you still had the box, as the box print is a better indicator of age.

My crimp groove on my copy is beveled but not as deep as yours and the front band is a bit weaker. I know mine is older, it's single cavity, says "Ideal" on the mould, and it casts 362."

[Ben]

In extensive shooting with two Microgroove 35 Remington Marlins, no other plainbase bullet touches its accuracy. Since your mould is marked Lyman it is likely somewhat newer than the 50's, when the name change went from Ideal to Lyman. I'd bet your mould is considerably newer.....the determination would be helped if you still had the box, as the box print is a better indicator of age.

My crimp groove on my copy is beveled but not as deep as yours and the front band is a bit weaker. I know mine is older, it's single cavity, says "Ideal" on the mould, and it casts 362."

Those IDEAL's don't throw sub-sized bullets, now do they ?

Sorry , no box with this one. All these molds were simply laying in a large cardboard box with top punches, H & I sizing dies, old containers of bullet lube, etc. in the box.

You've got a nice one also.

I'll be shooting this one, stay tuned.

By the way, I bought all this for $200 :

The Lyman 45 in the photo cleaned up well, we used a pressure washer on it after it soaked in " Purple Power ". It got several coats of Lyman Orange paint and looks real good now. I gave it to my friend Bryan who has not been casting for very long. He needed it, it went to a good home.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v494/haysb/download1-3.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v494/haysb/download3-2.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v494/haysb/download4.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v494/haysb/download2-3.jpg



Ben

[AlaskanGuy]

Wow ben... I would take all them nasty ol molds right off your hands... :)

[Ben]

I've been cleaning all these molds for the past few days. Hard for me to understand how people allow molds like this to get in this shape. I guess I must really ' pet ' all of mine.

Ben

[Newtire]

Using the crimp grove as intended, the boolit is too long for N-frame Smiths, but ok for K-19. ... felix
I found out that it was too long for my Ruger SP101 after I got to the range! I am going to give it a try in .38 special loadings.

[Guesser]

It is and has been for more than 50 years my favorite 38 Special boolit.

[DeanWinchester]

I have an RCBS mold that looks EXACTLY. Like that. It falls around .360 too
My 35remington LOVES it over Unique and Bens Red.

Great score Ben!

[bhn22]

Mines an Ideal, and throws .361 or so. I figured it would have been useful in the olden days with 38 S&Ws. 358311 is an ancient design, I had a single cavity solid handle mold a few years back.

[Ben]

I know that the 358311 goes back to 1929. It is at least 84 years old.

This is a page from the IDEAL 1929 catalog and it is listed. Most likely the 358311 is even older than this.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v494/haysb/Capture2.jpg

[fecmech]

I have a couple of 4 cav H&G #39's that are a very similar bullet. They are what I use for my 100 yd Ram loads in my K-38 for Hunters Pistol Silhouette. More accurate than any cast wadcutter I've ever shot and even better than HBWC's.

[tward]

Yep, have an Idea copy of this. Seems it was the std police load for the 38. Mine cast .361 it has the rounded lube groove and my crimp groove is a little smaller. The Boolit looks so ho-hum and old fashion, but it is very accurate in my GP 100. Tim

[Mk42gunner]

I think I remember reading something by Dean Grennell in one of the ABS's of Reloading, that said the 358311 was Ideal's first mould for the .38 S&W Special; while the 358416 was meant to mimic the .38 Colt Special factory projectile.

Based on that and the cherry number; I think the design goes back to the very early years of the twentieth century.

Robert

[Lefty SRH]

I have a modified 4c version that i use in competition. Its an awesome boolit! My 686 SSR loves it! Cant say how many pounds of lead have gone thru my mold. Good find Ben, load some ip in that fine GP and see what it will do.

[mainiac]

after reading this, i dug out my old 311 mold,that i havent shot in years. I casted a good handful of them,and am gonna try them in 2 different smiths that ive picked up. My boolit looks a little different then yours,,,,,my mold is a lyman,it has a shorter front drive band then yours,and my middle band is taller then yours.Seems lyman never did want to standardize there molds. My mold casts .358-.361,,.003 out of round(its fatter oppisate the part line,,go figure!),,sized them .358 and that took care of that. Also, my front band is smaller,,,about .355.
Looks like a pretty old mold.

[Ben]

Here is a " before and after photo " of the same Lyman 45.

How did we do ? We gave this puppy a Major Face lift.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v494/haysb/download1-4.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v494/haysb/1129132027a.jpg

[GP100man]

Ben , ya did good brother , in both senses of the word . The paint job is top shelf work & giving it to a friend in need is a just reward for sure!! A fine example of the caliber of people that frequent this forum !!!

I to have a few neglected 311 molds , some of vintage times & a newer small front band also .
I`ve found in general a full front band gives me better accuracy(if I do my part) than a "shrunk" front band .

1 problem for the RN designs , everyone harps & praises the wide flat nose designs (includes WFN & SWCs & plain wadcutters) for accuracy & terminal affects that the RNs have almost been forgotten !!

Threads such as this brings alot to the table , as this design is of the earliest & shooters shot a bunch of & they harvested game with & won matches with ..........

GP

[Maven]

"It is and has been for more than 50 years my favorite 38 Special boolit."

Amen to that, Guesser!

[MtGun44]

Ben,

Any chance to shoot those 311s and see how they do?

Bill

[rintinglen]

Ben, you won't be disappointed. Back in my PPC days, I ran some extensive tests using the 358-311, H&G 50, and 358-429s, the 358-311 and the WC were noticeably more accurate than the Keith boolit. The H&G group average was just a snip smaller from my old Douglass Barrel M-14 than the 358-311 at 25 yards, and it used less lead, so that's what I went with, but at 50 yards they were a push. Either would easily hold inside the 10 ring on the full size Target, with most in the 10 X. Now if only I could have shot like that without the bench.

[Char-Gar]

Like others 358311 has proven to be scary accurate for me. It is a great design.

[Artful]

Here is a " before and after photo " of the same Lyman 45.

How did we do ? We gave this puppy a Major Face lift.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v494/haysb/1129132027a.jpg

You did great - and not only on the refit but the purchase.
You can load that in 9mm for subsonic use as well - just have to be careful as not much
room for powder and pressures rise quickly.

[Ben]

Ben,

Any chance to shoot those 311s and see how they do?

Bill

No Bill,

The rain has set in here.
It will be a few days before things dry out here.
Getting cold also.

Thanks,
Ben

[waco]

Great job on the 45!

I have an older 450(the grey one) that I broke the handle on. I need to upgrade it to a newer one piece handle.

[MtGun44]

Darned cold here, too. I got a new pistol and didn't take it to the range, it
was 8F and snowing/freezing rain. Just couldn't enjoy it, so will save it for a
better day.

Bill

[Hi-Speed]

...my favorite for factory duplicate of the old Remington 38 Special Hi-Speed loads (aka 38-44). Haven’t loaded any for awhile.

[avogunner]

I have three Ideal/Lyman molds that meet all my .38/.357 needs.
358432 - 148gr Wadcutter for target work
358311 - 148gr RN for general fun shooting
358156GC - 158gr SWC for all +P and .357 Mag.

They all shoot great!
Semper Fi.

[35remington]

The 358311 is specc’d at 158 grains and casts to that weight or a bit over depending upon the alloy used.

[avogunner]

Right you are....typo on my part.



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