What a cool 44 cal design...

[AlaskanGuy]

I saw one of these close up, what a cool looking boolit... Wonder how they would work on brown bears....

88762

And a write up about the boolits designer...

88763

And the actual lyman 429303 mold..

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88767

I saw one of these molds for sale, it was over 100 bucks, so i had to pass, but would love to try some boolits out if anybody has some.. Anybody have one of these??

AG

[cuzinbruce]

It is a cool bullet. I think he called it the Hi-Velo-Pen or something like that. In one of the Lyman cast bullet handbooks. He was showing how well it penetrated steel plate. With some stout loads of 2400 powder if I remember correctly. You will need the proper nose punch for the sizer and seating stem for that bullet or you will mangle the pretty point. Rumor is that the BATF strong-armed Lyman into discontinuing this and the .357 version. Word was that they went through vests at least as well as steel plate.

[AlaskanGuy]

Yea.... I WANT one.... I think it will go through a lee sizer just fine... And pan lube....

[bhn22]

NOE has a few available at a much more reasonable price than the collectors market. Personally, I feel that design would royally suck on live game. Some people call that design "the penetrator". I don't see why. I'd expect the point to flatten out a bit, and essentially turn the bullet into a poorly formed semi round nosed wadcutter, limiting penetration. Also, the weights are a bit light for my tastes. Now, if it were used as a wadcutter, for target use, it's likely to shine in that application, especially if speedloaders are involved. All told, I'm still in Elmer Keiths camp for hunting bullets.

[Larry Gibson]

Brown bears? Make sure you have running shoes on or are hunting with someone you can out run...........penetration is an "over sought" property of a bullet too many times at the expense of what is really important in a bullet's terminal performance. A bullet does not need to penetrate the length of DG. It needs only to penetrated into and through the vital area shot at. There is indeed a reason why game bullets for soft skinned DG is made to expand. Assuming you would be using your 375 H&H if hunting a brown bear, that 44 bullet would be used in a handgun for "defense" against a brown bear? The vitals are all up front in a "defense" situation and penetration through the whole bear is not needed. If you have a raking or Texas heart shot you shouldn't be shooting because that no longer is a "defense" shot. Just food for thought as there are a lot more practical 44 bullet designs in my humble opinion.

Larry Gibson

[AlaskanGuy]

I totally agree with ya.... I was just wondering what it would do... I still like the idea of the design. In my 44 mag there are the great lee 310 wide flat nosed all the time... It is what i shoot, what i practice with and just work well.... I was just wondering what penetration would be like against all the bone and muscle of a brownie... And i would love to do some testing on thing like wood, pressure treated wood, and other stuff.... Just looking for a good time... :) I personally an not a handgun hunter, and my 375 is what i hunt with...

[GRUMPA]

I have that mould, and like what was said already you have to actually make a couple of things that only require a #3 center drill. It is a hard target boolit when heat treated and engine blocks don't stand a chance, don't ask me how I know. I also have that in 357 with almost the same results in penetration, Caution though, you can't use them in a tubular magazine for obvious reasons..

[TheGrimReaper]

I googled up this: http://www.generalordnanceusa.com/429303.html

[GRUMPA]

There was a member that tried to get the same thing from that outfit. Needless to say he waited to the point he filed with his CC Co. because they never delivered.

So I would say don't throw caution to the wind when it comes to that outfit...

[TheGrimReaper]

Oh....good to know!!!Thanks for the heads up, Sir!

[GRUMPA]

And as a little snipit, from what I was able to figure out about the Lyman mould, they stopped making it around 97 for some reason.

[AlaskanGuy]

Probably for penetration issues against vests and such as was pointed out by cousin bruce in the above post...

[paul h]

Brown bears? Make sure you have running shoes on or are hunting with someone you can out run...........penetration is an "over sought" property of a bullet too many times at the expense of what is really important in a bullet's terminal performance. A bullet does not need to penetrate the length of DG. It needs only to penetrated into and through the vital area shot at. There is indeed a reason why game bullets for soft skinned DG is made to expand. Assuming you would be using your 375 H&H if hunting a brown bear, that 44 bullet would be used in a handgun for "defense" against a brown bear? The vitals are all up front in a "defense" situation and penetration through the whole bear is not needed. If you have a raking or Texas heart shot you shouldn't be shooting because that no longer is a "defense" shot. Just food for thought as there are a lot more practical 44 bullet designs in my humble opinion.

Larry Gibson

The thing with a revolver is you can have either penetration or wound channel, but you don't have enough power to have both. Comparing a medium to large bore rifle to a handgun is apples to oranges. A 375 H&H uses an expanding bullet because it has enough power to drive that expanding bullet clear through a bear. To me the ideal bear round will create a fist sized wound cavity clear through the bear on a side shot. No reolver I'm willing to pack is going to be capable of such performance. Either you choose a soft bullet that won't exit, or you go with an ogival wadcutter that will create a ~ 1 1/2" dia wound clear through.

Brown bears are large animals and with when their thick fur is wet they can tax lesser bullets and your only shot may be a head shot. And you can't expect the first shot to drop the bear. What if the bear vears off course and your follow up shots are quartering?

That's a long way of saying that IMHO a handgun round for brown bear should be able to reliably drive deep and straight. That's the reason heavy for caliber ogival wadcutters are the overwelming choice. Their overall performance in terms of wound channel size and depth of penetration is the best trade off.

[MTtimberline]

I have no experience with this design but have looked at it as well. I have been told that it is a challenging mold to cast good looking bullets with. It would be interesting for experimental purposes, but would be a novelty more than anything for me.

[cuzinbruce]

I have cast with this mould and it is a piece of cake. No problems at all. Keep the mould blocks clean and hot as well as the metal and it is no more problem than most any other pistol bullet. If you are concerned about the penetration part, you will want some hard metal. Probably straight linotype. Which is usually pretty easy to cast with.

[Bret4207]

Probably for penetration issues against vests and such as was pointed out by cousin bruce in the above post...

More likely from poor sales and Lymans lack of interest in the whole casting thing.

[beagle]

I've owned a couple over the years. There are several drawbacks from my point of view. #1 The grease grooves are so deep that they hang in the mould more than I like. #2 The deep lube grooves can take too much lube to the point where it was still shedding on the 100 yard target when I was shooting them in a rifle. #2 Mine cast and sized at 212.7 grains and that was lighter than I wanted in the .44 Mag. #4 They didn't shoot accurately for me at all in less than full power loads.

Penetration was adequate but as has been pointed out, on bears, more than penetration is needed. Now, I've never shot a bear so I can't talk too much but if in bear country, I believe I would choose another bullet for bear protection in the .44 Magnum. Like a 300 or 320 grain Keith with a lot of WW296./beagle

[SwedeNelson]

Out of stock - buy you can see ours here
http://noebulletmolds.com/NV/product_info.php?cPath=37&products_id=65

Swede Nelson

[Airman Basic]

http://smith-wessonforum.com/lounge/113942-french-arcane-bullets-dean-grennell.html

[MtGun44]

Regular old Keith 250 will penetrate fine and the flat point will do more damage. That
one was designed to punch into car bodies, IIRC, when the .357 was touted as being
able to stop a car with one shot.

Bill

[AlaskanGuy]

This takes the design a step farther....
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And these.... Used today by the south african special police.
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These are the head stamps in the above order.
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I hindsight, i wish i had not mentioned the b word (bear)... It was just a thought spoken out loud when pondering what something like the above would to all of that bone and muscle... I was more interested in the penetration a boolit like that could do, and the interesting design... It looks cool, and would be fun to test with various different materials... Not to hunt with...lol. It represents a dang fun time at the range if you ask me... :) bring your own engine core to test with it....lol

AG

[square butte]

I've got an extra one if you want it. Bought it at Dixons muzzleloader shop in PA. in the late 90's. Found it hiding on the back side of a shelf. It's brand new in the box - never cast with. Will have to look and see what I gave for it. I think the price tag is still on the box. Would maybe ask $10 more than I paid for it + shipping. Let me know and I will try and dig it out after the holidays

[Thin Man]

I started casting in 1973 when I bought a friend's lead pot, sizer and assortment of molds. One of these molds is a 4 cavity Lyman 35793 (still have it), the smaller brother to your 44 pattern. I worked with this boolit in 9mm and 38 Spl. and got only fair group accuracy. I have always preferred a heavier projectile in revolvers but this thread has me thinking about trying this boolit with the 357 Magnum just to see if I can get it to cooperate. It should be fun to experiment with various alloy blends, hardness treating, sizing diameters and different powders to look for boolit group size responses.
Thin Man

[hicard]

They still owe me a mold that was never delivered too.

[Artful]

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?93443-Specialty-amp-AP-pistol-cartridges
http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?98344-The-POINTY-Boolit-Mould-Buy!
http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?200179-Arcane-Style-mold

[PalmettoShooter]

NOE has a few available at a much more reasonable price than the collectors market. Personally, I feel that design would royally suck on live game. Some people call that design "the penetrator". I don't see why. I'd expect the point to flatten out a bit, and essentially turn the bullet into a poorly formed semi round nosed wadcutter, limiting penetration. Also, the weights are a bit light for my tastes. Now, if it were used as a wadcutter, for target use, it's likely to shine in that application, especially if speedloaders are involved. All told, I'm still in Elmer Keiths camp for hunting bullets.

I'm with you on Keith style SWCs for hunting. You get a lot of weight, good penetration, great wound cavity, and you can make it at home! I've been wanting to get a .357 lever action and take a deer with a hot Keith SWC load.

[EDK]

Go over to marlinowners.com and do some reading. Those guys love a 357 1894 and 170+ grain boolits. Back to original topic. My 429421s in a Contender out-penetrated 357 armor piercing in another contender barrel on concrete and engine blocks at a local dumping spot.

[ctious]

I know a guy that has this for his 44. Shots at the range I do. Looks neat. Says it shots great at distance. But that is all its good for.

Now just thinking. I would love something like this for my 10mm. Cast super hard. For penetrating vests. For my shtf stash.

[WallyM3]

Quote: "Out of stock - buy you can see ours here
http://noebulletmolds.com/NV/product...products_id=65

Swede Nelson"

I check in from time to time on that one.

[Oreo]

I would love something like this for my 10mm. Cast super hard. For penetrating vests. For my shtf stash.

I'm thinking about it. I want to get the 170/150wfn finished first. Then I'll start a discussion on new design ideas for the 40cal.