Bullet lube lesson please . . the nitty gritty of it?

[bedbugbilly]

My background is shooting BP for fifty years. For my revolvers and various lubes, I have always used a mixture of a 1 lb can of crisco to 1 toilet bowl ring - melt and blend in a microwave and mix well. This has always worked great in my revolvers - kept BP fouling soft and extended the number of cylinders full I could fire with no cylinder pin problems binding.

O.K. I know smokeless is a different ball game. So here is my problem . . . the more I read on lubes, the more I am getting confused. I realize that "lube formulas", "powder coating", etc. are almost a hobby in themselves . . . but . .

I have seen / heard some say that shooting soft lead boolits you don't need any lube. Others disagree. Some say tumble lube, some say fill lube grooves up, some say a coat of paste wax, etc. So, what's the skinny on lube - needed? A little, a lot?

I'm playing with a variety of boolits - I have the Lee TL SWC, the regular groove RN, Lyman WC with regular grooves and even some cast in my original old Winchester mold that is RN with regular grooves. That one drops at around .560 or so so I'm going to have to size in my Lee sizing die.

Will my old standby of crisco/toilet bowl mix work? I plan on pan lubing and then sizing - messy but it will clean up. This lube is on the soft side - i.e. I pour it in old cap tins and let it harden but I can work it out with my finger tip and spear into lube grooves.

One of my concerns is that I am in MI in the summer and AZ int he winter - I keep my cartridges in the shade when transporting and shoot at an indoor range. Once the boolit is seated in the casing, will the softer lube be a problem in regards to getting to the powder charge (I'm thinking it won't). Or, can I add something like parafin to stiffen it? Any thing wrong with that or will it gum up the bore, etc.?

I'm really not in to mixing all the special formulas that I've seen and read about. I'm comfortable with the old lube I have used for years - just don't know how well it is for use with smokeless? When it comes right down to it, I'm wondering how well good old "Bag Balm" would work - it's sticky enough to adhere in the lube grooves and I know some use it on their fingers to lube casings prior to sizing. A tin of it would go a long way.

I have and have tried the alox - O.K. but really not my cup of tea. I have used paste wax with the tumble lube SWC but am not sure just how effective it is as a the only lube? I have a feeling I am way over thinking this - so if using soft or range lead - is lubing really necessary - if so, how much is "enough".

Or is the answer to all of my idiotic questions and worrying . . . "you don't need any" . . . or "if it's slippery, anything will work"? (As long as it isn't corrosive)

Your thoughts are appreciated and I'm sure a lot of others who are new to reloading probably are wondering the same things. . . .

Thanks.

[.22-10-45]

"If using soft or range lead..." bedbugbilly..you are a man after my own heart. all of my revolver shooting now days consists of soft range lead. I did a little lube test last summer..tried commercial alox & alox free lubes against my very soft beeswax,anhydrous lanolin, castor oil, & carnauba wax mix. These loads were all .38 Spec. fired thru a couple of 7 1/2" barreled Colts..a 1905 Bisley & 1913 Officers Model Target. not only was there zero leading..(I really didn't expect any, but my softer home grown lube was a bit more accurate than the store bought. I feel for light target type loads, soft is better.

[randyrat]

Easiest lube for smokeless one can make is 50% Vaseline and 50% beeswax OR 50% Vaseline and 50% Paraffin. Play with the percentages for the heat or cold also STICK to the lead characteristics .. This lube will take care of most of your light loads, until you start pushing the loads more, then you best make or buy a better lube.
You also can incorporate some bag balm in your lube..One thing about bag balm is; Water added to it(hydrous), water will evaporate some day down the road and your lube will change. If you add heat to bag balm there will be some evaporation of water.

Even soft lead bullets need lube, I don't care who tries to tell you different. They just don't know what they're talking about. Sure they will go bang and you may even hit the target until the leading is so bad you blow your gun up. There is such a thing as Paper Patching, no lube needed.

BTW if you use Paraffin, bag balm may be needed to give your lube some stick

[Outpost75]

A simple lube which works well in most smokeless loads is 1 part of Dexron ATF to four parts of beeswax, by liquid volume.

If you do not have beeswax, then mix equal parts by melted liquid volume of Gulf paraffin canning wax and Vaseline, then using that 50-50 mixture as a beeswax substitute, blend that with your ATF.

Or if you are a cheap SOB a 50-50 mix of paraffin and Crisco by liquid volume with 1 part in 5 of ATF also works well.

[geargnasher]

Trying to answer your question is, trust me, more intimidating a task as your asking it.

If all you want is advice on what you can make yourself that is guaranteed to work, buy some beeswax from Randyrat and melt it together with amber, low-temp, lithium chassis grease at about a 60% wax, 40% grease ratio or adjust to your liking. Fill your boolit's lube grooves up with it using a lube/sizer machine and be merry. Works pretty well for rifles, too.

If you want to know HOW it works, delve into the Extreme Lube Quest sticky thread. Once your eyes glaze over and the idea of painting something just to watch it dry starts to really sound appealing, refer back to this post.

If you turn out to be one of the inquisitive freaks like me and can't seem to get enough of lube philosophy, technical discussion, and endless experimentation, you're in excellent company and we can make you absolutely sick with tribological information. My lube recipe book contains over three hundred tested ingredients. There are others, look for the Sombreros in the avatars.

But please, for the uses you require, trust me on Randy's beeswax and lithium, low-temp chassis grease.

Gear

[Wingnutt]

Nutty gritty of it? It's a whole lot easier to buy a high pressure lube to fill a lubrisizer, then yer covered for most hi velocity load, pistol or smokeless rifle. No need to look far, a few sell it right here....

[paul h]

The challenge in answering your question is it just begets more questions. Is your goal simply to prevent leading. Is your goal top notch accuracy. Is your goal the simplest possible opperation. Is your goal the lowest cost. Is your goal highest velocity etc.,

People try or invent new lubes for a few reasons. One is the lube they had been using failed in some aspect, another reason is they are a tinkerer and have to try something new, or they don't want to pay $6/stick for a commercial lube.

If your application is say a 45 acp then I'd say you could probably use just about any lube and find they work satisfactorily. However accuracy testst may prove some lubes superior to others.

If however your application is a magnum revolver, you may find some lubes fail and others give less than top accuracy. I once tested various lubes through my 480 which is a very accurate revolver and will put 5 shots in an inch at 50 yds with it's preferred loads. I had lubed bullets with LBT blue, home made lithi bee (moly/lithium axle greese and beeswax), RCBS green and Lyman alox. The LBT and lithi bee provided top accuracy, alox doubled the group size, RCBS green tripled the group size. I didn't clean between lubes or fire multiple groups, but it did give me an insight into lube choice being important.

I haven't tried liquid alox at top magnum level loads, but have with mid level loads and achieve the same accuracy as with LBT blue and lithi bee.

If you just want simple and aren't really pusing your bullets, a lee 6 cavity tl mold and 45-45-10 is really tough to beat. That's what I run through my 45 acp, why make life more difficult than it needs to be.

[JonB_in_Glencoe]

...Your thoughts are appreciated and I'm sure a lot of others who are new to reloading probably are wondering the same things. . . .

I'm not sure why randyrat didn't mention his Tak #1 lube. It's really a great all round smokeless boolit lube. I'm sure it can be used for pan lubing, I haven't tried that, but others have. And he sells it for about the same price as the individual ingredients, which he sells also. I've mixed up a few lube recipes and bought ready made Lubes from others here...which they have more individualized uses, But Tak #1 is the one I use for most loads.
Jon

[btroj]

Nutty gritty of it? It's a whole lot easier to buy a high pressure lube to fill a lubrisizer, then yer covered for most hi velocity load, pistol or smokeless rifle. No need to look far, a few sell it right here....

Pressure and velocity aren't the killers for lubes. Temperature is the key.

A great low temp lube like MML can fall apart at 95 degrees. Carnuba red is fine at 95 degrees but can lead to cold bore flyers at 40 or below.

[randyrat]

I'm not sure why randyrat didn't mention his Tak #1 lube. It's really a great all round smokeless boolit lube. I'm sure it can be used for pan lubing, I haven't tried that, but others have. And he sells it for about the same price as the individual ingredients, which he sells also. I've mixed up a few lube recipes and bought ready made Lubes from others here...which they have more individualized uses, But Tak #1 is the one I use for most loads.
Jon
I just figured bedbugbilly wanted to use his own concoction of easy to obtain ingredients. Jon is right about my lube TAC 1 though, it is top notch along with very low smoke characteristics. You can DIP lube or Pan lube with it also.

[dragon813gt]

Do yourself a favor, and just buy from White Label Lubes. If I didn't have a few decades worth of their products I would be trying Randyrat's lubes as I hear great things. I know the basics of lube formulas. When I did the math to make my own, I found it was cheaper to buy from White Label.

[geargnasher]

If you buy three pounds of wax from Randy and three tubes of cheap grease, you'll be out about 25 bucks and can make 5-1/2 lbs of good lube, which is about the equivalent of 60 hollow sticks. That's over $200 worth of lube, about 1/10 the price of buying it. I'm not saying don't buy it, or don't buy if from White Label (excellent product from some fine folks, same deal with Randyrat), but that if you don't spend a lot of time and money screwing around with a ton of different ingredients and just go with a formula that is well-proven by others for your particular needs, it IS far less expensive to make than buy.

Gear

[DeanWinchester]

I worked hard to bend my head around boolit lubes.....then I tried Ben's Red and quit worrying about it. It works at any temp (in my neck of the woods), and it DOES work.