Anybody shoot cast bench rest handguns?

[paul h]

I was flipping through the latest Lyman cast bullet manual the other nite and started flipping through the chapter on competive cast bullet shooting. I've never shot competitively but the handgun br game seems somewhat interesting to me. I sold off my contenders years ago, but I figure doing a purpose built XP-100 might be kinda fun. I figure adding cast to the equation would add enough of a challenge to peak my interest.

Anybody here fiddle with cast br handguns?

[357Mag]

Paul -

Howdy !

I had an XP w/ intent to try it as a rifle action in CBA-type shoots. I was going to go w/ a .35Rem chamber, and had Red Scherer make me a stainless 1-16 .358" cal 5-groove barrel.

I swapped the XP action in-on a Wichita WBR1375. Some 25yr after the barrel had been made, I finally screwed got it onto the Wichita, after J.D. Jones had chambered it in .357AutoMag ( ran as .358" cal ).
My idea then, was to use this larger cal for local " Score" type shoots.

Again, I ran the action (Wichita ) as a rifle action, but the experience did teach me a few things....

Case capacity:
For use w/ .358 cal rifle bullets, the AuoMag' case capacity gave useful accuracy out to 300yd, and I was able to kill groundhogs w/ the combo @ that distance ( 22" barrel ).
But, I found the Rem 150 PSPs and Hornady 180s to be wind sensitive at the vel levels the .357AutoMag case could provide. I was shooting 22-24gr WW296, dependent on bullet chosen.
I could " cloverleaf " the 150 PSP 35 cal bullet holes, when I did my part.

Still, I ended-up wishing I'd gone w/ .35 Rem instead, which was my original thought. And.... XP-100s came in .35Rem.

Now that I've had my M-336 XLR .35Rem for a few years, I'm absolutely convinced .35Rem is THE way to go, if one desires to use .35 cal in a " bench rest " application.
I got the XLR's loads to the point where 5-shot 5/8" groups are do-able, including one 3-shot subgroup of .200". This was w/ Rem 150PSP "J"-words, over a modest charge of IMR4759.

I'd have to study the " Indiana Deer " wildcats, in-order to make informed commentary on their case capacity relative to that of the .357AutoMag. From what I've seen, they are not much larger in capacity.
With the AutoMag, I was able to use Lapua 6BR brass, which gave me the SR primer capability shown to aid in obtaining hyper-accuracy. I also formed AutoMag brass out of Norma 7BR ( LR primer ). They worked good, too.

My point:
A notional .35Rem XP100- based build holds lot's of promise.


With regards,
357Mag

[paul h]

Thanks for the input. I'm a huge fan of the 35 cal but was thinking more along the lines of a 30 br for a cast bullet XP-100. Something to be said for milder recoil and small groups. My most accurate contender tube was a 30-30 based 6.5mm wildcat. It basically matched 6.5 Jen balistics and would pu three 120 gr ballistic tips in 1/2 group at 100yds on demand. If I could do that with cast I'd be pretty stoked.

[bobthenailer]

I have two RPM XLs one in 357 mag and another in 32/20 (30/20) the 357 avgs 2 1/4 " at 100 yard 25 shot group with the RCBS 200gr FN Boolet . and the 30/20 will avg 1 1/4 " at 100 yards 25 shot group with RCBS 165 gr sil boolet
I also have a XP-100 built by Brown ,chamberd in 7MM IHSMA its scary accurate under a inch at 200 yards is commonplace with J bullets . Ive been meaning to try cast, i even have a rcbs 145gr sil mould but havent got around too testing loads yet.

[cbrick]

I've not shot bench rest competition but shot handgun silhouette (open sight 200 meter) for 30 years and during that time did a huge amount of scoped from the bench load development/testing including with revolver, all exclusively with CB.

Bob, you may want to consider the RCBS 168 gr in the 7 IHMSA because of the larger case capacity. I used the RCBS 145 in 7br for a few years and it worked very well, shot NRA National Championship 80x80's with that combo. The RCBS 35 200 you use in the XL also works extremely well in the 357 FA revolver where it has shot State Championship 60x60 for me. That truly is an outstanding boolit.

Paul, either the 7BR or 30BR cartridges should give you excellent groups and would be a wise choice, better Boolit selection with the 30. Same old advice, make it properly fit the firearm it's to be fired in. No need to shoot diamonds at these velocities either, I use air cooled WW +2% Sn for the vast majority of this shooting. Give the CB bench shooting a try, it's an absolutely fascinating journey and you'll be amazed at what can be done with CB's.

Rick

[bhn22]

The Cast Bullet Assn Long Range Handgun records are here: http://www.castbulletassoc.org/nationalrecord/natrecord.pdf

The CBA home page is here: http://www.castbulletassoc.org/index.shtml

I'd suggest you consider some heavy-duty browsing on this site, there's also a forum you can join at no cost while you explore your options. Ask lots of questions, the guys will give you any information they have. There's some serious experience there, and it's yours for the asking.

[paul h]

Thanks for everyone's input. I doubt I'll get into competition, though I might participate in a postal match or two down the road.

About 10 years ago I did extensive load work and range sessions with my scoped 480 Ruger and was suprised and pleased to see how well cast could shoot in a revolver. I never tried to chase moa accuracy, but it was a solid 2 moa gun and I'm sure with more load work and practice I could have shrunk the groups. But even with the milder loads it's just a bit much more target work.

I kinda got away from the scoped handguns for years, went back to the irons with the 480 and sold all my contender stuff. For some reason I've rekindled the interest in seeing what I can do with an accurate handgun at longer ranges.

I might just have to start with a 7br, there seem to be plenty of used XP's with 7 tubes and that would get me started without having to spring for a new barrel. For some reason I have a 7br sizing die so would just need a good seating die, some brass and a decent mold or two, oh and a sizing die or two.

[shooter2]

I do not shoot competition, but have a Contender in 7 X 30 Waters that's a tack driver with jacketed or cast. Easy to load for and fire forming the brass is a breeze. S2

[JSH]

My .02
After fooling with the 7br XP and over the counter type molds made for the masses. Save your self some headaches and go custom from the get go. All the bore rider types of fairly new make molds are all over sized. I have to nose size in a .277 die.
I have an XP in 7ihmsa that will be a 30br as soon as the barrels get swapped. Variety of designs in the 30 out numbers the 7mm a bunch.
As to the br pistol. I know a gent that played with 35 br in an XP for quite a while. It shot a 180 wadcutter in an honest inch at 100. That was for 5 dunno what he or it would do with a 25 shot group.
Jeff

[bobthenailer]

I've not shot bench rest competition but shot handgun silhouette (open sight 200 meter) for 30 years and during that time did a huge amount of scoped from the bench load development/testing including with revolver, all exclusively with CB.

Bob, you may want to consider the RCBS 168 gr in the 7 IHMSA because of the larger case capacity. I used the RCBS 145 in 7br for a few years and it worked very well, shot NRA National Championship 80x80's with that combo. The RCBS 35 200 you use in the XL also works extremely well in the 357 FA revolver where it has shot State Championship 60x60 for me. That truly is an outstanding boolit.

Paul, either the 7BR or 30BR cartridges should give you excellent groups and would be a wise choice, better Boolit selection with the 30. Same old advice, make it properly fit the firearm it's to be fired in. No need to shoot diamonds at these velocities either, I use air cooled WW +2% Sn for the vast majority of this shooting. Give the CB bench shooting a try, it's an absolutely fascinating journey and you'll be amazed at what can be done with CB's.

Rick

Thanks for the info!

I also got a friend to lend me some of his moulds, Lyman 287308 164gr and 287442 139 gr and a Saeco #071 160 gr i tried them in a used 7mm TC contender and i tried all 4 bullets in it and it just would not shoot cast well enough to be competive in matches , but would shoot jacketed excellent .
the barrel did have a extremely long throat in some instances the boolet was almost out of the case
before it hit the rifling .

[cbrick]

hehe, yep. Contender barrels aren't called Linda Lovelace barrels for nothing, most are very deep throated.

Rick

[Artful]

hehe, yep. Contender barrels aren't called Linda Lovelace barrels for nothing, most are very deep throated.

Rick

Oh, you nasty boy

[Fluxed]

The .30BR is a highly developed cartridge and would be a no-brainer for an XP100.
Wonderful Lapua brass, great barrels and lots of gunsmiths with good reamers.

[paul h]

So for a 30 br geared towards cast would a slower twist barrel like a 1-15 be the way to go, or do the cast br's to better with heavier bullets requiring more twist?

[JSH]

I would stay with a 10 twist and opt for a 140-180.

[MarkP]

XP's in 223, 6-223, 7 BR, & 350 Rem Mag; mainly shoot cast in the 350 and 7 BR and have not tried cast in the 223. The 7 mm Soup can from Mid-south does very well in my 7 BR out to 200 yds. As far a XP's go the 7 BR was somewhat common in the XP's latter years and would make for a good starter.

[Fluxed]

So for a 30 br geared towards cast would a slower twist barrel like a 1-15 be the way to go, or do the cast br's to better with heavier bullets requiring more twist?

Years ago, before there was a .30BR, I built a bench rest rifle with an extra barrel chambered for a 30cal wildcat that looked just like a .30BR with a much longer neck. It had a 14 twist barrel. The idea worked out well, but I lost interest after a while as I never got the consistency I was looking for. It'd shoot great groups about 85% of the time then sling out some 1"ers just to make me pull my hair.

I shot mostly 165-170 bullets that looked much like a Lyman 311041. The molds were made by Richard Hoch. The 14 twist worked fine.

Depending on your purpose I'd consider doing pretty much the same thing again, if generally shooting 100-200 off the bench is the goal. Alternately, you could look for a used BR rifle which will likely have a 17 or 18 twist. You might be able to shoot 150s from this, but certainly could use 125s. A used BR rifle and a custom mold to fit might be the cheapest easiest way to have a fun accurate gun.

Also consider a rifle in one of the 30 PPC variants. The smaller case could be your friend. That kinda depends on what you want the gun to do.

[Fluxed]

Sorry, I forgot we're talking BR pistols!!
Anyway, the principles still apply. But of course a used rifle is not how to get there.

[Doc Highwall]

I would stay with either a 7mm-Br or a 30-Br and I am leaning towards a 30-Br. I have Encore pistol barrels in 6mm Br, 6.5mm Br, and 7mm Br with Burris 3x12x pistol target scopes.