6.5 140gr bullet loads needed

[tygar]

Just got a 6.5 140gr GC mold & will be trying to get loads primarily for my 6.5-06 but will also try them in my 6.5-284 & 264 Mag.

I can't find any loads for them, either here or in any CB books.

The 6.5-06 is one of my long range antelope/caribou hunting rifles & shoots 2" at 500 so it's a real good rifle. The 6.5-284 is one of my F-class guns & it will be just for fun cause lugging a 13+lb gun is not good. No idea on the Mag, don't think I have ever fired it but with the mag case I am wondering about too much empty case. Hopefully some of you guys will have some good dope on these.

I was told that I could just start at minimum jacket bullet loads for my .375, can I do the same for these?

Will also be trying to get loads for 7mmMag, 338Mag, if anyone has info on them.

Thanks in advance for any help.
Thanks
Tom

[Buckshot]

...........My experience with the 6.5 has been with the Swede and the 6.5x52 Carcano. All I was interested in was punching holes accurately in paper at 50 yards. For the Swede I pretty much settle on 2 surplus powders that were exceedingly cheap and did a fine job. I's use either WC860 or WC872 interchangeably. WC860 is a 50 BMG powder while WC872 was a 20mm aviation cannon powder. For my purposes about 35.0 grains launched a cast slug at 1700 fps and did what I needed it to do with either powder.

Besides cast these powders under a 140gr Jacketed slug would give me right at 2700 fps from a M38 Huskavarna's 24" bbl with right at a full case load, and it was superbly accurate. You'd need to work your own load up. A buddy with a Ruger I think it was, got a bit over 2600 fps with a 140gr jacketed slug from a 22"bbl. For cast up beyond 1800 fps you'll need to really pay attention to a myriad of conditions having to do with the rifle (chamber, throat, leade) and barrel dimensions. For velocities beyond 1800 fps and up to and over 2000 fps you can do a search here and end up with a years worth of reading.

For velocities commonly attributed to cast boolits of 1600 to 1800 fps the 6.5 is no harder to get shooting accurately then any other. Beyond that you'll need to consult others here on the board. It appears they've accomplished it, as its been seconded by several other board members. If that is what you're interested in the information is available.

...............Buckshot

[Larry Gibson]

I've a bit of experience with Lyman's 140 gr 266469 in a 6.5-280, the 6.5-308 and in the 6.5x55 Swede. I'll stick with the 6.5-280 here. My 6.5-280 had a 26" barrel and a 10" twist. Most 6.5s have quicker twists. The faster the twist the lower your expected velocities will be will accuracy.

My 466468s were cast of Lyman #2 and weighed 145 gr fully dressed. They were sized at .466 and lubed with Javelina (NRA 50/50). GCs were Hornady. I mostly used H4895 and old original H4831. I've had chronographs (Oehler) since '75 so the velocities are measured. Best accuracy with either powder was right at 1900 fps. I could push it a bit higher with the 266455 and H4831 though. Were I to load cast for the 6.5-280 with that twist today (barrel was shot out long ago) I would use a slower powder such as Varget, RL19, AA4350, H4831SC or RL22. if load density was less than 80% a Dacron filler would be used.

Larry Gibson

[45 2.1]

tygar, you're going to read many things about the 6.5's on this site. Remember that when someone tells you that you can't do this or that, then their knowledge is what they have seen and not what is able to be done by someone else...............

[Larry Gibson]

Ah...the master has spoken............

Note he gave no information as usual.......just criticised "someone" .......as usual.......

Let us see if we can walk the rice paper and leave no prints.........

Or...perhaps a little information on what the master himself (not his 2nd hand retelling of what others have claimed to do) has done to answer the OP's question on a 140 gr cast 6.5 bullet in the "6.5-06 ....... 6.5-284 & 264 Mag". Some useful information in the spirit of this forum would be appreciated.

Larry Gibson

[45 2.1]

Note he gave no information as usual.......just criticised "someone" .......as usual.......

The information is here: http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?70923-Milk-Jug-300-Yard-6-5-Swede
You should know the location as you posted in it enough. Of course, one must follow the instructions without substitutions or intuited notions if one is to succeed. I don't recall you doing that without substitutions, lets try it this way notions, out of spec. altered CM boolits or a stock swede military rifle though...........

Some useful information in the spirit of this forum would be appreciated.

Depending on what caliber, case capacity/shape, boolit toughness with corresponding fit in the rifle, velocity desired, powder choice etc. you're using, different methods and tactics are required to achieve what you want. These things have been done by quite a few people in the world without blaming something else for their failure..... and then again, the obverse is also true.

[tygar]

OK stop it.

So far only 1 guy has been an ah to me & it sure wasn't 45 2.1! He has answered all the dumaz questions I have sent to him without fail.

You have also been most informative when I have read your posts & I appreciate ALL who have responded to me when I ask questions.

I've been around a long time & the one thing I have learned is that there are lots of guys more knowledgable than I about a lot of things.

I am the newby to rifle cast bullet shooting so I'm asking questions & need all the help I can get.

If we were talking about long range rifles, accuracy, handguns & combat then I would pontificate.

So now, back on track, how about some starting loads for any of these rifles, please.

Thanks
Tom

[Larry Gibson]

Tom

Several questions as we get started;

What is the particular 140 gr bullet mould you have?

What are the twists of your 6.5 rifle barrels?

In this day and age of shortages what powders in the medium to slow burning range do you have?

Do you have a sizer yet and lube, if so what size sizer and make of lube?

Larry Gibson

[tygar]

Tom

Several questions as we get started;

What is the particular 140 gr bullet mould you have?

What are the twists of your 6.5 rifle barrels?

In this day and age of shortages what powders in the medium to slow burning range do you have?

Do you have a sizer yet and lube, if so what size sizer and make of lube?

Larry Gibson

Good questions. I have to look &/or get info. My 2 customs are specifically made for 140s but need to get the twist from Gunsmith cause I don't remember. But it will be fast to shoot the 140s. I guess 8, but will see.

sizer - Lyman .266,

Powder - all Hodgens, IMR, RL + some Vitavouri. I pretty much use Hod, IMR & RL for my reloading. I have cases & 4 & 8lb cans etc. lots of powder & primers, no shortage except for RL7, 2400, 4227, unique.

Mold - Lyman 6.5, RN, GC, 140gr

Lubes - RCBS White box, paraffin & beeswax, Lyman Alox, Ideal, super moly

Thanks
Tom

[45 2.1]

Just got a 6.5 140gr GC mold & will be trying to get loads primarily for my 6.5-06 but will also try them in my 6.5-284 & 264 Mag.

I can't find any loads for them, either here or in any CB books. Thanks Tom

Usable case capacities from the Lee manual:
30-06 4.38cc
284W 3.97cc
270 4.24cc
7mmRM 5.27cc
264WM 5.29cc
6.5RM 4.28cc
6.5x55 3.68cc
25-06 4.15cc

If you have about the same case capacity and the boolit weight is close, then using data from another like sized cartridge can give you a starting point.

Referencing from the Lyman #48 manual:
For the 6.5-06, look at the 270 Win 150 gr. 280642 data.
For the 6.5-284, look at the 284 Win 135 gr. 287346 data.
For the 264 Mag, look at the 7mm Rem Mag 160 gr. 287641 data.

Try the mid-range charges from each of these for the powder given for your 140 gr. boolit.

[robertbank]

Following with interest. We will help the OP. Any old scab picking will find the picker on the side lines. Only warning.

Take Care

Bob

[Larry Gibson]

Tygar

Sizer is correct for a .264 groove barrel which most all new 6.5 barrels are. The Lyman ALOX might be the best of the lubes you have to start with.

Knowing the twist will help us with powder selection and starting load for that bullet (266469 or 266673?). Very good you have a large powder selection available in this day and age of poorly stocked shelves.

Do you have a certain alloy in mind you are casting them of?

Larry Gibson

[tygar]

I currently have casted the 6.5s at 15 & 19 BHN. Before casting harder wanted to see what speeds I would be shooting.

I can make lots of different mixtures & hardness. I have 200+ lbs of lino, some mono, 100 lbs WWs & 300lbs range/softer lead m/l. Figured something between #2 & lino+ is where a faster round like this would want to be but I'm just doing a WAG. I figure i'll be getting info on what to use.

Have GCed 15 w/Lee tumble lube (forgot to put that down) & 15 with the white box lube (19bhn bullets). Now just have to come up with 5, 3 shot loads to test with the 2 lubes.

It is the 140, the 266469.

Tom

[Larry Gibson]

Have GCed 15 w/Lee tumble lube (forgot to put that down) & 15 with the white box lube (19bhn bullets). Now just have to come up with 5, 3 shot loads to test with the 2 lubes.

Not knowing the barrel twist we are in a bit of unchartered territory but to test the above I suggest 4895 powder with a 3/4 gr Dacron filler. Try starting at 22 gr 4895 and work up in 1 gr increments to 26 gr with each different lubed bullet. Are you also chronographing?

Larry Gibson

[tygar]

Have GCed 15 w/Lee tumble lube (forgot to put that down) & 15 with the white box lube (19bhn bullets). Now just have to come up with 5, 3 shot loads to test with the 2 lubes.

Not knowing the barrel twist we are in a bit of unchartered territory but to test the above I suggest 4895 powder with a 3/4 gr Dacron filler. Try starting at 22 gr 4895 and work up in 1 gr increments to 26 gr with each different lubed bullet. Are you also chronographing?

Larry Gibson

The 6.5-06 brl is an 8 twist like I thought. Just did the rod & patch trick.
Tom

[Larry Gibson]

OK, we know what we're dealing with so try the suggested loads.

Larry Gibson

[tygar]

Is it important to put in filler? Don't have any except cotton & have read the links suggested & am not sure about cotton.

Can the extruded powders be shot "primer up" as with the M1? or is filler mandatory.

I have loaded some with Unique so can shoot that for testing.

What is this "ringing" the chamber I have been seeing in the threads about fillers?

I don't want to screw up a 3k+ rifle that will shoot in the ear hole at 500.
Thanks
Tom

[Larry Gibson]

tygar

Is it important to put in filler? Don't have any except cotton & have read the links suggested & am not sure about cotton.

Depends on the powder's burning rate, ease of ignition and bullet weight. I suggest you take a look at my post #4 in; http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?109280-The-proper-use-of-fillers

With Unique a filler is not needed nor desired in the '06. With 4895 it is. Dacron is polyester and if you have an old stuffed toy or pillow around you probably have plenty of it available. Otherwise a stop by the local fabric shop or even Wal-Mart will get you plenty for less than $5.

Can the extruded powders be shot "primer up" as with the M1? or is filler mandatory.

They can but expected results will always depend on that loading technique and firearm presentation for consistent results. The filler is not "mandatory" where used but it sure makes shooting a lot more fun and easier. With heavier cast bullets and easily ignitable powders the filler isn't needed but more powder will be needed to achieve the same velocity. With slower burning powders where load density is 80% or greater the filler is not needed.

I have loaded some with Unique so can shoot that for testing.

Yes.

What is this "ringing" the chamber I have been seeing in the threads about fillers? that is damaged caused when a (primarily) a wad is used or a wad or filler is used with the wrong powder and/or bullet combination.

I don't want to screw up a 3k+ rifle that will shoot in the ear hole at 500.

With the suggested 4895 loads and a proper Dacron filler you won't.

Larry Gibson

[tygar]

Hi guys. Not the 6.5 but have had success with one of my 06s.

The sporter 1917, 3-9 Leu with 173gc and 32, 33, 34 gr 3031. In order (3 shots) one hole, almost 1 hole perfect clover leaf, .4, 2 in 1 & 1 .4 out, all at 50yd. Will try 100 asap.

Just loaded 5 ea with same brass, will shot for proof asap.

On the 6.5, I havn't shot any yet. Not sure I will with the 06 or 284 until I get more knowledgeable. I'm just not comfortable with it.

Think I will just try the 264 Mag. Don't care if it gets broken.

On paper speed should be 1900-2000. I'm to the L&Gs with the ogive, maybe a couple thousands off. Don't have a match seater for 06 so I'm getting some variation on seating re the ogive.

The groups opened up at 35 & 36gr. It will be interesting to see if I can find a load that will allow more speed if these hold up at longer range.

Let you know how it goes.
Thanks
Tom