308 Garand

[historicfirearms]

Got a new one to me this weekend, 308 barreled Garand. I've experience with 30-06 Garands but haven't fooled with the 308 in this rifle yet. Trying to find load data specific for her on the net hasn't been terribly helpful.

Should I stick with recommended 30-06 Garand powders? I've got the Hornady manual that lists 308 service rifle data, but they don't specifically mention the Garand in that section.

Also, as far as factory ammo, what is safe?

Thought I'd ask advice from the more experienced before I chance bending an op rod.

[Outpost75]

I have tested USN and USMC 7.62 Garand conversions, and they perform well with M118 equivalent handloads with 175 Sierra MK and the same charges which woukd be used in an M14 NM using IMR4064, RL15 or Varget.

[birch]

Check to see if the follower falls out of the reciever when held upside down without tension from the op-rod spring. If so, it could be a bad follower arm. Make sure you don't take advise from Cessna Caravan pilots especially if they fly for Martinaire. From what I hear, flying too long under IFR conditions makes them a little flighty when it comes to honesty.


Oh yah, I almost forgot that there are two paths you can go by but in the long run there's still time to change the road your on.

[Scharfschuetze]

Some Navy match shooters were still using 7.62mm NATO Garands at many of the matches I attended up through the mid 80s. Some of those guys could really shoot well with them. The Navy shooters all used the M-118 match cartridge and that used a medium burning rate stick powder. I'm pretty sure that it was close to or was IMR 4895. When the switch was made to M-118 Special Ball in the mid 80s, the powder used was a ball powder along with crimped in primers but the same 173 grain bullet. I saw the Garands shoot both of those loads well so I guess if you load with a 168 or 175 grain projectile to about 2,550/2600 fps with the powders recommended above, you should duplicate those military loads.

As I recall, the military Grands in 7.62mm had a magazine plug/filler at the front of the clip well to keep the rounds properly seated in the clip. I don't think that it is necessary though as I've seen Garands in 7.62mm shoot and function just as well without the filler/spacer. Some of the very early conversions (never actually saw one) had a chamber insert forced into the 30/06 chamber to properly headspace the 7.62mm cartridge. It reportedly would eject sometimes and purpose made barrels were installed on all of the Navy Garands that I looked at.

Many junior DCM/CMP clubs also rebarreled their M-1 Garands to 7.62mm and I saw those used with regularity at various matches too.

[phonejack]

I've had one for years now. The filler plug is not needed. I use m852 or equivalent . Varget or 4895 are good powders

[Outpost75]

Check the drawing number on the barrel. If the drawing number is the same as for a cal. .30-'06, with ten inch twist of rifling, you have one of the sleeve conversions, which are a jackleg expedient at best. If the barrel has a different drawing number with 7.62 clearly roll-marked, not hand stamped, with the ID Mod.50 or Md.50 anx with four-groove government form rifling and 12" twist, it is a proper conversion barrel purpose built for 7.62 reworks.

[Larry Gibson]

The 311299 should be an excellent cast bullet over 4895 with a Dacron filler. Start at 28 gr and work up to 32 gr looking for functional reliability. Best accuracy will probably be there. You might want to look at BruceB's sticky on loading cast for the M1A as most of that info will apply to your rifle as well.

Larry Gibson

[Digger]

Excellent advice from Larry and also as he refers to BruceB"s sticky in here... lots of good info to go by as I am learning the same here using my Garand tanker , .308 .
Another suggestion if you are reloading the same ... you might take advantage of Love Life's group buy on his .308 once fired military brass , mostly lake city, very good chance to pick up in bulk , your timing might be just right to get involved.
digger

[Bob S]

A-136 (M118 Match ... not "Special Ball") was loaded with non-canister lots of 4895, and canister lots of that powder is still the go-to for 168 or 175 SMK. The "plug" in the magazines of our (Navy) rifles was some sort of white nylon/plastic; over time it got brittle and would break, and when it did, it could really foul up the works. So we just removed them and threw them away. The Navy (and Air Force) LR load was a 190 SMK with an over-SAAMI dose of 4320.

Resp'y,
Bob S.

[historicfirearms]

Thanks for all the good insight.

My M1 has a commercial 308 barrel installed. It doesn't have any spacer installed to prevent insertion of a clip full of 30-06. It is plainly marked on the rear sight bridge for 7.62. I think it would be more dangerous if a clip of 308 got inserted in a 30-06 garand. Maybe I will paint some clips and only use them for 308.

I ran a few clips through it yesterday just to check function, its been pretty cold and snowy so I didn't feel like shooting for accuracy. Winchester white box 7.62x51 ammo worked fine, recoil was noticeably less than m1 ball. I also loaded up some cast 311299's behind H4895, function started to be 100% at 30.5 grains. Temp was around 25 degrees.

[tygar]

My go to loads that work great in my guns are:

175 Sierra or Berger - 43.5 RL-15 (this is what I mostly shoot in both M1 & M14 w/RP brass, LCM 41.5-42.5)
168 " " - 41-42 IMR 4895
168 " " - 46.0 H380 (this is not a load you normally see but it was worked up by Clinton Fowler for a 308 match he did for me & what worked best with his adjustable gas plug.
I still have 2 or 3 cans of military 7.62 match that I use for benchmarks when working loads.

Speaking of gas plug, get one & you can really dial in a load by adjusting it.

[Thundermaker]

42 grains of IMR 4064 under a 168 is a good load.

[milsurpcollector1970]

Don't know what the conventional wisdom here is, But I was told to always use a clip when loading .308 in the garand because of the possibility of slam fires. There is a single shot loading clip available from creedemoore I think.

[Gtek]

IMHO the fear factor is a clip full of or single round of -06 being chambered in a .308. The length of the -06 is enough that it bottoms in chamber and bolt is still out of battery and firing pin has not reached retraction bridge. This can create the possibility for an out of battery inertia fire. Fifteen to twenty bucks for a block seems like a whole lot better deal that a face full of iron, gas and brass. Just me. Gtek

[Scharfschuetze]

Both the M1 and the M14 (M1A) have a bridge of metal under the bolt that is designed to prevent slam fires. It blocks the firing pin from going forward until the bolt is turned into battery. Still, with their floating firing pins, it is common to see a little dimple on a primer after a round has been chambered and then ejected without firing it. I've always feared the worst from that and when I single load an M1 for the slow fire stages of the NM course without a clip, I ride the op rod forward a bit to reduce its inertia and velocity when chambering a round. With all that said, in the many matches that I've been to, fired in, coached in or officiated at, I've never seen a slam fire with the M1 or M14.

+1 on the single shot clip.

S.L.E.D. http://www.champchoice.com/store/Main.aspx?p=ItemDetailOptions&item=M1G1

The single loading clip for an M1 is called a S.L.E.D. as I recall and it is worth every penny that they charge for one. You can also get 2 shot and 5 shot clips for M1 Garands. The two shot clip is intended for the initial two shots in the 10 shot rapid fire NM (load with 2 and 8) courses and the 5 shot clip is for hunting with the Garand in states that limit magazine capacity to 5 rounds.

[tygar]

Both the M1 and the M14 (M1A) have a bridge of metal under the bolt that is designed to prevent slam fires. It blocks the firing pin from going forward until the bolt is turned into battery. Still, with their floating firing pins, it is common to see a little dimple on a primer after a round has been chambered and then ejected without firing it. I've always feared the worst from that and when I single load an M1 for the slow fire stages of the NM course without a clip, I ride the op rod forward a bit to reduce its inertia and velocity when chambering a round. With all that said, in the many matches that I've been to, fired in, coached in or officiated at, I've never seen a slam fire with the M1 or M14.

+1 on the single shot clip.



I can tell you first hand that a M1A/M14 will SLAM FIRE.

I broke a tricked out NM around 1990 when I was single loading for testing loads & the bolt slipped out of my hand.

Receiver bridge broke, bolt broke & tested my glasses & cut my face & got my hand pretty good.

For the M1 I use the 1 rd clip that stays in the receiver & you just stick the round into the clip.

It WILL slam fire don't ever think it won't.

[Petrol & Powder]

IMR4895 is THE powder for the .308WIN. IMHO.

[Pirate69]

42 grains of IMR 4064 under a 168 is a good load.

Agreed. I use this in both a 308 Garand and a M1A. Not hard on either gun.