rcbs 44-250k or lyman 429421?

[shooter bob]

Christmas is coming i can get the rcbs 44-250k or the lyman 429421.Witch would you pick any input on either would be great. I have lyman 429640 hp@the lee 310.Thanks Bob

[Mal Paso]

MP 432256 aka H&G 503 Clone

If you PM Miha he might have one left. He just did a run of both Solid and Hollow Point. http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?202158-Rerun-Mihec-H-amp-G-503-Clone-432-250

PM: http://castboolits.gunloads.com/private.php?do=newpm&u=5623

[shooter bob]

Thanks Mal Paso gonna look into this for sure

[Mal Paso]

There is some history in the new Handloader Magazine. This was the last "Keith" Elmer designed and it was after the 44 Magnum was an established cartridge.

[shooter93]

Either one, I've used both, if it's a factory mold you're after. If your economy allows then the MP as stated or Tom at Accurate molds. He'll make it to fit your guns throat if that's an issue.

[chsparkman]

I have both and they are great. I usually cast the Lyman since it's a 4-cavity.

[shooter bob]

Thanks guys think i will go for the rcbs i really like there molds i have some lee ,lyman and 1 rcbs mold they seem well made Thanks again Bob

[detox]

Thanks guys think i will go for the rcbs i really like there molds i have some lee ,lyman and 1 rcbs mold they seem well made Thanks again Bob

RCBS makes quality moulds most of the time. If not, they will make it good. I hear the Lyman version has undersize front scraper band. Accurate molds are expensive, but verygood quality.

[MtGun44]

If you can get the MP 503 clone, do it. If not, the other two are
wonderful molds, but I'd probably rate the RCBS a bit better
mold quality and durability than the Lyman.

NO bad answers to this question.

Bill

[GBertolet]

The RCBS mold design, is supposedly truer to the original Keith design than the current Lyman offering. I believe it has something to do with the driving band width and the shape of the bottom of the grease groove.

[Fernando]

Either one, I've used both, if it's a factory mold you're after. If your economy allows then the MP as stated or Tom at Accurate molds. He'll make it to fit your guns throat if that's an issue.

+1 both awesome:bigsmyl2:

Tom's are a work of art.

[captaint]

What Bill said, exactly. If I had to buy one, it'd be the RCBS. Mike

[Poygan]

Concur with the choice of RCBS. In my experience the RCBS molds cast more easily.

[9.3X62AL]

I've had great work from my Lyman #429421. My RCBS moulds are all a delight to use, also--though a couple run a few ticks undersized. Tough choice. Tom's Accurate Molds have been a cut above both, though--and if your revolver runs with wider throats (SAAMI spec is .433") then Tom's tools or a Mountain Molds semi-custom design might be a better idea. The cost of these small-shop tools is not significantly higher than that of the mass-produced products, and the tools are worth every cent of their prices.

[waco]

I would go for the Lyman because you can get it in a four cavity.
Waco

[GLL]

http://www.fototime.com/E8D12FD27453BFC/orig.jpg

If you are shooting a revolver with larger throats you should talk to Tom.

Jerry

[35 Whelen]

I have (deep breath): a 1-C Lyman 429421-round lube groove-248 gr., a Lyman 2-C Lyman 429421-square lube groove-250 gr., another 2-C Lyman 429421-square lube groove-250 gr., an 4-C NOE 429421-square lube groove- 260 gr., A 2-C MiHec/Miha 429421HP-square lube groove- weight of solid as yet unknown, and a 2-C RCBS 44-250KT-square lube groove- 260 gr. All the aforementioned weights are as-cast with WW's. I plink and target shoot with the NOE and hunt with the RCBS (2 deer with it this season so far). I'd have to go with the RCBS although I must say the MiHec appears to be very similar to the RCBS. I really like the nice fat front driving band on the RCBS bullet.

35W

[fredj338]

I have both, like both, bothshoot well. The Lyman is a 4cav & the RCBS is mod for my Magma.

[Mal Paso]

I have (deep breath): a 1-C Lyman 429421-round lube groove-248 gr., a Lyman 2-C Lyman 429421-square lube groove-250 gr., another 2-C Lyman 429421-square lube groove-250 gr., an 4-C NOE 429421-square lube groove- 260 gr., A 2-C MiHec/Miha 429421HP-square lube groove- weight of solid as yet unknown, and a 2-C RCBS 44-250KT-square lube groove- 260 gr. All the aforementioned weights are as-cast with WW's. I plink and target shoot with the NOE and hunt with the RCBS (2 deer with it this season so far). I'd have to go with the RCBS although I must say the MiHec appears to be very similar to the RCBS. I really like the nice fat front driving band on the RCBS bullet.

35W

CALL!

Two Lyman 4 C 429421s, One 5C NOE 429421, Four 4C MP 432256s and one 4C 432256 HP

[curioushooter]

Why is the H&G 503 clone better than either the Lyman 429421 or the RCBS 44-250K? I am not talking quality or stuff like custom diameters. I am just talking design. When I look at the 503 it seems an awful lot like every other SWC. It seems to have a straight angled side as opposed to a radius or compound radius to the nose. The meplat seems similar. Weights are about the same. All are plain base.

[Gamsek]

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20200203/7eb0fcd12f428a46b4fc322c1efa3836.jpg

Some history, from Glen Fryxell

[curioushooter]

Yea, I read that already. Seems like they are all basically the same, and load data should be nearly interchangeable between the H&G 503, 429421, and RCBS 429-250K. SEEMS LIKE. But I don't know. Glen doesn't provide relevant details that matter, weight with a given alloy, groove to meplat, length, meplat diameter, are all the bands the same width, full diameter? A scaled drawing like NOE provides would be great.

Since Lyman's molds have proven to me to be of various actual diameters (I own three 358429s and NONE of them cast the same diameter bullet, and one has its handle retaining screw drilled at an angle so it needs to use specially modified handles to hold it), I was going to go for the MP molds #503 mold, since I know it will be good out of the box. But I want to know if I can use 429421 load data or RCBS 429-250K load data. Please don't waste everyone's time saying probably. If have the Lyman 429421 and a H&G 503 clone from MP molds please chime in if you KNOW the weights. It would be greatly appreciated.

[Gamsek]

MP copy of H&G#503, alu 6cav solid
2/3 pure,1/3 ww=266grs
ww=262grs
ww+Lino=261grs
https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20200205/dc5c2d1bc366f180dd16fe72bcceafc8.jpg

Hope it helps.

[Mal Paso]

Why is the H&G 503 clone better than either the Lyman 429421 or the RCBS 44-250K? I am not talking quality or stuff like custom diameters. I am just talking design. When I look at the 503 it seems an awful lot like every other SWC. It seems to have a straight angled side as opposed to a radius or compound radius to the nose. The meplat seems similar. Weights are about the same. All are plain base.

The forward drive band is longer and is actually inside the throats of my Colt. The 503 was designed after the 44 Mag and has whatever improvements Elmer came up with.

I like the MP Molds/Dale 53 503 clone, the Arsenal 503 clone and the out of production BC 1103. I have seen several different Ideal #503s and like the Dale 53 (who supplied dimensions) version.

The 2 Lyman 4c 429421s I had were undersize and tapered with the forward band .002" under. I lapped one straight and like it now.

NOE makes a great mold and has 3 different Elmer's but I like a deeper crimp groove.

The only thing that kept me from RCBS is the 2 cavity limit.

The MP Molds/Dale 53 503 clone.

[Mal Paso]

All of these are roughly WW+ 1% or a bit more Tin. There are lubed, I pulled a couple from each box.

MP 503 .432" 260 g
Arsenal 503 .432" 255g
Lyman 429421 (lapped to .432") 252g
BC 1103 244g

I load them all the same.

[Walks]

I seem to remember Keith did NOT like the RCBS bullet.
The driving bands were a 3 different heights, with the top driving band being very narrow.
I have the RCBS mold and while it shoots ok, someday I'm going to send it off to ERIK for "band modification" and get all 3 driving bands cut to matching heights.
The 3 Lyman #429421 molds I have are from the mid 1960's, a 4cav drops .4315 with my preferred alloy. A mix of 50/50 - COWW/#2.
The pair of 2cavs will drop .431 & .4315 in the 1st mold and .430 & .431 in the 2nd mold.

All these molds are accurate and produce good bullets. I just Don't like the RCBS; the bullets uneven appearance.

Haven't seen a H&G 503 since My Dad passed, 32yrs ago. So I can't speak about it.

[35 Whelen]

Yea, I read that already. Seems like they are all basically the same, and load data should be nearly interchangeable between the H&G 503, 429421, and RCBS 429-250K. SEEMS LIKE. But I don't know. Glen doesn't provide relevant details that matter, weight with a given alloy, groove to meplat, length, meplat diameter, are all the bands the same width, full diameter? A scaled drawing like NOE provides would be great.

Since Lyman's molds have proven to me to be of various actual diameters (I own three 358429s and NONE of them cast the same diameter bullet, and one has its handle retaining screw drilled at an angle so it needs to use specially modified handles to hold it), I was going to go for the MP molds #503 mold, since I know it will be good out of the box. But I want to know if I can use 429421 load data or RCBS 429-250K load data. Please don't waste everyone's time saying probably. If have the Lyman 429421 and a H&G 503 clone from MP molds please chime in if you KNOW the weights. It would be greatly appreciated.

My 429421 mold is an NOE and of course I have the RCBS 44-250. I have the MP mould but only cast HP's with it. Both the NOE and RCBS cast virtually the same weights with ACWW and that is 258-260 grs. Using identical loads the RCBS bullet runs just a bit slower (~35 fps)due to the fact that the distance from the crimp groove to the bottom of the bullet is slightly less where the RCBS is concerned. This of course means slightly less bullet in the case, slightly less pressure and slightly less velocity.

Bullets from the RCBS mold consistently give superb accuracy and so far I've taken three (or is it four?) deer with said bullet.

https://i60.photobucket.com/albums/h6/308Scout/Single%20Actions/Uberti%204.75%20%20RCBS%2044-250%2050%20yds.-text_zpsrjoeb9hu.jpg (https://s60.photobucket.com/user/308Scout/media/Single%20Actions/Uberti%204.75%20%20RCBS%2044-250%2050%20yds.-text_zpsrjoeb9hu.jpg.html)

https://i60.photobucket.com/albums/h6/308Scout/Single%20Actions/Ubertigroup-1mod_zpsa7642578.jpg (https://s60.photobucket.com/user/308Scout/media/Single%20Actions/Ubertigroup-1mod_zpsa7642578.jpg.html)

The only non-HP bullet I've ever recovered from game was from the RCBS mold. It struck a buck just behind the last rib on his left side at about 1050 fps and travelled up to the juncture of the neck and shoulder on the right side.

https://i60.photobucket.com/albums/h6/308Scout/Hunting/bullet_zpsd62d630c.jpg (https://s60.photobucket.com/user/308Scout/media/Hunting/bullet_zpsd62d630c.jpg.html)

Hope this helps.

35W

[curioushooter]

Wow thanks. I think will be be getting MPs version of the 503. Maybe I should get Arsenal's clone for a solid and MP's HP. I've been burned so many times with used lyman molds off ebay. I think there is a reason why they are on ebay...

I am planning on shooting this in 44 Special in a 624. Are there any nose length considerations there like for the 357 N frames (I sold a M28 for want of loading 358429s in maggie brass)? 624s are do NOT have recessed chambers, so I figured with Special brass it won't be problem.

I suppose I better pin gauge the throats first too since the 503 seems like it could run into them.

[Mal Paso]

Wow thanks. I think will be be getting MPs version of the 503. Maybe I should get Arsenal's clone for a solid and MP's HP. I've been burned so many times with used lyman molds off ebay. I think there is a reason why they are on ebay...

I am planning on shooting this in 44 Special in a 624. Are there any nose length considerations there like for the 357 N frames (I sold a M28 for want of loading 358429s in maggie brass)? 624s are do NOT have recessed chambers, so I figured with Special brass it won't be problem.

I suppose I better pin gauge the throats first too since the 503 seems like it could run into them.

I would measure the throats. Smith usually has enough distance to the throats but every gun is different and Smith had tight throats for a while. I reamed all my throats .4313 that weren't larger already. My 629 throats were .428. Only my Colt has chambers short enough that the 503 forward band is just inside the throats. I consider that a good thing, no jump to the throats.

The MP Hollowpoint Molds are just plane fun. I had trouble with the MP 6 cavity mold but I understand the alignment pins are cross pined now. I also have the Arsenal 5 cavity which has a conventional sprue plate. The MP 6 cavity is Lee style and you have to be more careful closing the mold so as not to push the blocks out of alignment.