#1 Buckshot Penetration

[Blair]

At 20-30 yds

Looking at using them on full size Pennsylvania deer of 150lb weights

Will I have enough penetration?

Or will I be wounding more than I need to be?

Have been using 00BK but want better, consistent patterns but reliable penetration.

[Outpost75]

No.1 buck is a good choice. Have not used it on deer, but it does almost as well on auto glass and plywood doors or household furniture as 00 and has a much better street record than #4 buck.

[Blair]

That's good to hear.

[Hogtamer]

Full choke will get 5 or 6 in his lungs @ 30 yds and you will feel them under the hide on the opposite side. DEADLY!

[flounderman]

I like the 000. It only takes one. The choke of the individual gun will do more than changing to smaller shot. You just have to pattern them. You can take an adjustable choke and try the different setting or change choke tubes. I bought a tube made in Black Earth Wi, could be a patternmaster, but it was made for heavy lead shot. Has the fingers that slow the wad down so it doesn't accelerate into the shot charge and spread it. The 000 holds its pattern better than smaller shot and has more energy

[wyattjames]

if you are planning on using it in pa check this page out it is illegal in pa to use buckshot except in special areas
http://www.portal.state.pa.us/portal/server.pt?open=514&objID=591283&mode=2

[Blair]

if you are planning on using it in pa check this page out it is illegal in pa to use buckshot except in special areas
http://www.portal.state.pa.us/portal/server.pt?open=514&objID=591283&mode=2

Thanks.

I do hunt in the special areas.

Plus I hunt in other States where it is legal.

[Leslie Sapp]

Full choke will get 5 or 6 in his lungs @ 30 yds and you will feel them under the hide on the opposite side. DEADLY!

+1 All I've ever used is a 3" #1, with 24 pellets out of a 12 ga. 30" full choke 870.

[jmort]

"#1, with 24 pellets"

That is around of 950 grains. What is powder/charge? That is a "wall of lead."

[6pt-sika]

I've killed two deer this year using handloaded #1 Buck . The first was a doe on a DCP . I used a circa 1890 LC Smith 10 gauge that had 16 #1 buck pellets in the SP-10 wad . The deer was at about 10 yards and it obviousely dropped her like a rock !

The second one was with a circa 1910 Parker GH 16 gauge shooting 12 pellets of #1 . This one was at maybe 15 yards and it dropped like a sack of potatoes . Also on a DCP .

Later I had to follow one up I had shot with a rifle and was carrying my Ithaca NID 10 gauge loaded with handloaded #3 in the right barrel and handloaded 000 in the left barrel . That deer jumped up at about 25-30 and I leveled her with the load of #3's . This was also a DCP deer .

Before you ask DCP is Damage Control Permit .

[Leslie Sapp]

That is around of 950 grains. What is powder/charge?

Winchester (http://www.midwayusa.com/Product/293644/winchester-super-x-magnum-ammunition-12-gauge-3-buffered-1-buckshot-24-pellets-box-of-5) and Federal both make this in a factory load. I have no idea what the powder charge or pressures are. The very best buckshot I ever used was a Remington, buffered, nickle plated 3" #1 load that unfortunately has been discontinued for over ten years.

My philosophy on the matter of 000 vs. #1, developed from many years of shooting running deer and hogs ahead of dogs, is that it is better to hit em' with two .31 cal balls than one .36 cal. Also, in my experience, most guns will shoot a better pattern with the smaller shot.

[Leslie Sapp]

Blair, note that I said most guns shoot the smaller shot best. I recommend buying several different brands and sizes and pattern them on a large sheet of paper at 30 yards. You may find your gun likes one of the larger sizes.

[6pt-sika]

Blair, note that I said most guns shoot the smaller shot best. I recommend buying several different brands and sizes and pattern them on a large sheet of paper at 30 yards. You may find your gun likes one of the larger sizes.

Trying different sizes is the correct way to look at it !

For some reason my 10 gauge LC Smith shoots 000 , 00 , 0 , 1 , 3 and 4 buck nicely at 25 yards on paper . Same can be said for my 10 gauge Ithaca NID .

I have 8 12 gauge side by's that I tried 0 Buck handloads in and all of them shot well enough for deer to 25 yards from both barrels .

[Greg5278]

I wouldn't worry about the Penetration at any reasonable range. You 95% of the Time not going to get an exit Wound.
I would go with the best patterning load in shot sizes #1-0000. My Experience with Buckshot is that every Gun gives wildly different Results.

For example one 30" barreled Fullchoke Ithaca in 2 /4" fires 00 very well in the standard 9 Pellet loading. It fires the Federal FE 9 pellet and 5-6 pellets are hitting a Milk jug at 40 yards.

The same gun with a .726" cylinder barrel fires my load of 8-0000 pellets into about 15" at the same range. I have tried the same Load in many other Guns, and it shoots very poorly.

James Gates has worked on some improved Buckshot loads. One finding was to stack the larger pellets in rows of 2 in the wad, not the standard layer of 3. BPI and PR sell some tough wads that protect the Shot from getting mashed in the Bore. Buffering also helps. I',m not a big BPI Fan, but their Buckshot manual does has pressure tested Data.

Greg

[Blair]

Blair, note that I said most guns shoot the smaller shot best. I recommend buying several different brands and sizes and pattern them on a large sheet of paper at 30 yards. You may find your gun likes one of the larger sizes.

I have been trying different loads and sizes.

Recently tried a box of Win Super X 12G 3" 24 pellets of #1 moving at 1,050 fps

Nice pattern at 15 yds with full choke

Also tried Hornady Critical Defense 12G 2 3/4" 8 pellets of 00 moving at 16 fps.

15 yd pattern was no better than my 9 pellet of 00 at 1300 fps using a BPI GS2 gas seal, nitro cards for height and teflon wrap.

The Hornady wad is similar to Federal Flite Control wad.

Federal and Hornady both seem to be very rigid, no section to give under the trip down the barrel. Like what I did with using a plastic gas seal and nitro card.

[Leslie Sapp]

Try to get the premium plated shot loads if you can find them - they do make a difference.

[35remington]

Factory #1 buck sizes run considerably smaller and lighter than the supposed .300" and 40 grains nominal that handloaders use. More like .286" and 33-35 grains, if I recall correctly. That sorta explains why they can cram 24 in there, but one also has to acknowledge that most of the kudos that go to factory #1 buck and presumably a .300" ball really goes to a ball size somewhat smaller.

And a little less diameter in a roundball makes for somewhat significantly less weight.

[Outpost75]

The. 285-.286 is actually No.2 buck, which Federal loads in its 3" Magnum 20-ga. Effective load in the 20-ga. with 18 pellets.

[35remington]

Yet when factory loads are sold the number 2 buck sized buck is noted as #1 on the package. Dissect some and measure it. 00 buck runs smaller than its nominal as well in factory loaded shells.

[Car54]

At 20-30 yds

Looking at using them on full size Pennsylvania deer of 150lb weights

Will I have enough penetration?

Or will I be wounding more than I need to be?

Have been using 00BK but want better, consistent patterns but reliable penetration.

Ok just my 2 cents based on 45 years a southern hunter and a 28 Police Officer. You will get more consistent and even patterns with #1 in a wide range of guns and chokes.. but it is the minimum size for deer...it cannot be counted on for the extreme long range heroic shots because of energy and penetration.--I can't give a distance-- only your pattern testing will determine your max range.. as has been stated, pellet diameter is dependent on manufacturer and if a shot cup is used. I have always had good luck in several guns using Winchester Super X in both standard 16 pellet loads and in the 3inch 24 pellet load, but I prefer larger shot-- particularly 000. Examples-- I have a Winchester Model 12 that has consistently killed deer with #1 from about the late 1940's up until ...oh, 1980, when it became a safe Queen. I suspect upwards of 80 deer have been killed with it in dog drives. #1 will give even patterns to about 55 or so yards in it but that is at the edge of good penetration. The 3 inch shell actually has less velocity and individual pellet energy that the standard 2 3/4 load... years ago, we performed the old "drum lid test" at 40 yards.. the depth of "denting" was progressively deeper as we shot #1, 0, 00, but the 000 would punch through, while all others would fall to the ground after hitting the barrel lid.. I have seen where deer were shot with 000 where leg bones were broken and pieces of bone were on the ground at the impact site..
At the other end of the spectrum.. there was a time in Mobile, when we had some leadership who required us to carry #4 standard buck loads in our Police Shotguns.. Once during a time of high gang activity, we got to chasing some people in a Public Housing area. My partner rounded a project house building and saw a young bad guy running, carrying a long gun (a stolen marlin 30-30). When he yelled at the BG, the subject stopped and pointed the lever gun back at him him. From about 80 yards, my partner (Mickey) shot the subject with one round of Winchester #4 buck. The subject was visibly hit-- threw the rifle down and ran the other way... He surrendered to another Officer in the next block and insisted that he needed medical help.. However, when he pulled his trousers down, he only had red welts on his upper thighs (which, I think that was probably Mickeys target, anyway). I saw another robbery suspect who was shot during a stakeout, who was carrying a shotgun and had his left forearm across his chest when the #4 hit his gun and arm-- none made it through his arm to the chest wall from, say a 25 yard shot.

So- I am not impressed with #4, have used #1 under controlled situations, 0 is not widely available, have not found 00 (an otherwise good load) to pattern well across the board in most guns or chokes, and would use Winchester 000 or an equivalent handload as my choice for a deer load (but my families use of Buck shot has waned in the last several years)..
Mike Davis

[FullTang]

Great example of why #4 buck is so good for home defense---those little pellets lose energy very quickly as they move downrange, even if they don't hit anything. Naturally, if they do hit something like drywall, they lose energy even more quickly. But at 10 yards or less (HD distances), all those little wound channels (21 to 29, depending on your load) make for a devastating round.

[Huntsman]

I used a Federal 3" 00 buck load this fall and dropped a nice young buck. I recovered 6 out of 15 pellets. Threewent thru the cavity which turned the heart and lungs into moosh, one went thru the shoulder and clean thru the cavity. All three lodged just under the hide. One went into neck busting thru bone and came to rest in hide and The other two landed in the front leg and rear leg breaking bone as well.

[Huntsman]

http://i1090.photobucket.com/albums/i375/Jamie_MG/Mobile%20Uploads/IMG_20151107_165928_zpswkhwdrht.jpg (http://s1090.photobucket.com/user/Jamie_MG/media/Mobile%20Uploads/IMG_20151107_165928_zpswkhwdrht.jpg.html)
http://i1090.photobucket.com/albums/i375/Jamie_MG/Mobile%20Uploads/IMG_20151108_094002_zpsjwnlb29t.jpg (http://s1090.photobucket.com/user/Jamie_MG/media/Mobile%20Uploads/IMG_20151108_094002_zpsjwnlb29t.jpg.html)

I'll post more pics at home. My BlackBerry is about to go flying accross the dentists waiting room :mad: