YUGO SKS is too heavy [Archive]

Junior1942

11-22-2013, 08:45 AM

My YUGO SKS 59/66 @ ~8 lbs 6 oz is too heavy for my arthritic arms.

I wrote about it here: http://www.castbullet.com/shooting/sks.htm
And here: http://www.castbullet.com/shooting/sks2.htm

I'm thinking about cutting off all the metal at the end of the barrel. That would remove 3 1/2" and leave me a 17" barrel. Of course I'd have to add some kind of front sight which would be 1 1/4" to 1 1/2" above the centerline.

Here's the front of the barrel as it looks now:
http://www.castbullet.com/shooting/photos/sks03t.jpg

I can't find a new front sight which will fit a barrel diameter of .595". I can't find an aluminum receiver cover which fits a YUGO 59/66. I can't find a lighter stock. I bought a skeleton plastic stock but it weighs 2.16 lbs which is exactly what the wooden stock weighs.

Ideas???

Bret4207

11-22-2013, 09:24 AM

Well, you can go at the wood work with rasps and files and drill bits and lighten it a lot. The front end of the barrel, you can cut that stuff off and mount a ramp front sight, but you're only saving a couple oz's. I'm betting if you reduce the forearm and wrist it will "feel" a lot lighter. It's just a fact that they have a lot of metal in them. The handguard you can swiss cheese and that'll get rid of some of it. Getting older stinks, eh?

Junior1942

11-22-2013, 09:53 AM

..... Getting older stinks, eh?Yep, but it's better than the alternative.... You think only 3 ozs in all that metal hanging on the front? Plus 3 1/2" of barrel, too. I'm thinking/hoping 16 ozs. I may knock out the 2 pins and take the front stuff off the barrel and see what it weighs.

bhop

11-22-2013, 09:53 AM

Prince 50 paratrooper sight. Google it his website is bullet button something

bhop

11-22-2013, 09:59 AM

Prince 50 paratrooper sight. Google it his website is bullet button something
http://www.sksboards.com/smf/index.php?topic=76830.0

btreanor

11-22-2013, 10:01 AM

Here's the link: http://bulletbutton.com/portfolio/sks-paratrooper-sight/

prsman23

11-22-2013, 10:45 AM

Shooting sticks? How tall do they make them/ can you make them light enough? Just a thought.

KCSO

11-22-2013, 11:03 AM

Take the front sight off and have it turned down. I did one for a fellow and left just the sight and about 1/2" of the grenade launcher left in the front for a muzzle protector and that was turned down to just a shell of the original. It looked GOOD too.

Bret4207

11-22-2013, 12:27 PM

You think only 3 ozs in all that metal hanging on the front? Plus 3 1/2" of barrel, too. I'm thinking/hoping 16 ozs. I may knock out the 2 pins and take the front stuff off the barrel and see what it weighs.

No, a pound in 3 1/2" forma barrel that might only weigh 2-2.5 lbs to start with? I don't think so. I think half a pound would be stretching it.

Junior1942

11-22-2013, 12:46 PM

Here's the link: http://bulletbutton.com/portfolio/sks-paratrooper-sight/Email questions sent to those folks. Thank you!

Junior1942

11-22-2013, 12:55 PM

No, a pound in 3 1/2" forma barrel that might only weigh 2-2.5 lbs to start with? I don't think so. I think half a pound would be stretching it.I think you're right or close. I just weighed a 2 3/4" cut off section of a .22 barrel, and it weighed 3.5 ozs. So it looks like a 3 1/2" section of a .310" barrel might weigh 6 oz at the most.

historicfirearms

11-22-2013, 02:45 PM

I just sold my Yugo sks because it was too heavy. Mine was 9 pounds even.

You already took off the grenade launcher, go ahead and remove the grenade launcher sight. If you cut the barrel back, can you just re-use the front sight?

Some work with a Forstner bit under the butt plate should also remove a few ounces of heavy Beech wood.

Junior1942

11-22-2013, 04:35 PM

The front sight is off. It weighs 4.4 ozs with another 1 1/2" of barrel still to be removed, maybe. The two pins came out easily. Knocking off the sight was hard.

Multigunner

11-22-2013, 05:19 PM

Density of the wood may be the major factor.
My YUGO came with a pretty ratty stock of some lightweight wood, possibly an Albanian stock some one had switched out.
I obtained a proper Yugo stock and it was much heavier.

Can't say for sure but it seemed to me that the Yugo barreled receiver was much heavier than other SKS rifles I've stripped down, more so than the grenade launcher tube would account for. The Yugo is built like a tank compared to the Chinese imports.

gew98

11-22-2013, 05:40 PM

The front sight is off. It weighs 4.4 ozs with another 1 1/2" of barrel still to be removed, maybe. The two pins came out easily. Knocking off the sight was hard.

I had a couple junker chinese type 56's. I had a buddy with a yugo SKS. So typical of them that the gas cutoff gas block was corroded and caused short stroking no matter what. I removed the all the superfluous yugo junk from the barrel and fit a chinese gasblock and front sight assy to it. A good torch helps alot to remove and assemble those sight bases. Was a reliable shooter after that.

zomby woof

11-22-2013, 06:21 PM

I sold my Yugo without even ever shooting it. It is way too muzzle heavy. If you must have an SKS, there are much better variants.

Multigunner

11-22-2013, 08:56 PM

Well in some ways the Yugo is better as a rifle, while most other variants are better as carbines.
The weight and balance are more like that of the more powerful battle rifles. It does help in rapid aimed fire.

While I didn't care for the weight the only reason I sold mine was because a relative of a friend offered me twice what I thought it was worth after I let him shoot a mag full. It turned out he had never owned a centerfire before so he was far more impressed with the rifle than I would have guessed.

Artful

11-22-2013, 10:43 PM

http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2012/10/23/molots-modern-sks/

carbon fibre stock?
http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2012/10/molot_modern_sks-tfb.jpg

Junior1942

11-23-2013, 09:22 AM

http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2012/10/23/molots-modern-sks/

carbon fibre stock?The one I bought weighs as much as the wood stock on my rifle.

Bret4207

11-23-2013, 09:51 AM

I bought one of those chinzty Ramline folders for mine back when I carried on the job. It's light. Can't shoot worth a darn with it, but it's light. Illegal now in NYS too I think.

And YES! the SAFE Act is an abomination.

koehlerrk

11-23-2013, 09:59 AM

Probably, Bret. Buddy of mine wanted to know what he'd have to do with his pre-ban Colt AR15... I told him to get a new stock, the one that replaces the pistol grip, and to take off the flash hider. Then he doesn't need to register it because it's not "scary"... never mind that it's no less effective. Stoopid NY laws....

220swiftfn

11-24-2013, 05:30 AM

I bought one of those chinzty Ramline folders for mine back when I carried on the job. It's light. Can't shoot worth a darn with it, but it's light. Illegal now in NYS too I think.

Nope, the SKS in all it's glory does NOT fall under the (un)SAFE act, the magazine is ATTACHED. However, the Ruger 10-22 is now the world's wimpiest "assault weapon" (sic).

Dan

Bret4207

11-24-2013, 09:58 AM

That a fer sure thing Dan? I read the law over about 10 times and it looked like the SKS qualified since the mag can be taken out and replaced with a removable mag?

NYBushBro

11-24-2013, 04:23 PM

That a fer sure thing Dan? I read the law over about 10 times and it looked like the SKS qualified since the mag can be taken out and replaced with a removable mag?

SKS fixed box magazines are NOT detachable (unless they take AK mags); AK magazines ARE detachable.

Know your 'legalese'... "DETACHABLE" does not equal "removeable". Heck, Mauser magazines (floorplate, spring, and follower) are removeable, but are not considered DETACHABLE.

I think it would behoove NY'ers to actually visit Cuomo's website and actually SEE what THEY consider under the scope of the new law - almost exclusively AK and AR variants, but will also include M1A's (detachable magazines and muzzle brake.)

I'm considering removing my pistol grips and asking someone to tack weld (ie: MIG) a piece of sheet metal over the hole that the AK pistol grip bolt goes through.

Poof - no more evil features.

NOTE: SKS carbines are about the ONLY sem-autos that are NOT on the list... at least not YET.
Perhaps my Winchester 401 and my Model 100 (both with detachable magazines) will be the NEXT thing they take issue with.

NYBushBro

11-24-2013, 04:41 PM

NOTE to Jr. - I think you have a bit of an uphill battle... sort of like trying to turn an M-1 Garand into a 'lightweight sporter'?

I would say that the LIGHTEST SKS I have is an old Tula letter gun which looks to be a vet bringback - the filthy dirty stock (catalpa wood?) feels more like balsa wood than the Russian red birch stocks.

Not sure whether Chicom stocks will fit a Yugo action, but perhaps if you have a friend with one, you might try a 'trial fit' before springing for a used stock on flea-bay.

I do have one Yugo (unissued Cherry import) and I can feel the difference in heft between that one and my Russkies.

Bret4207

11-24-2013, 06:30 PM

SKS fixed box magazines are NOT detachable (unless they take AK mags); AK magazines ARE detachable.

Know your 'legalese'... "DETACHABLE" does not equal "removeable". Heck, Mauser magazines (floorplate, spring, and follower) are removeable, but are not considered DETACHABLE.

I think it would behoove NY'ers to actually visit Cuomo's website and actually SEE what THEY consider under the scope of the new law - almost exclusively AK and AR variants, but will also include M1A's (detachable magazines and muzzle brake.)

I'm considering removing my pistol grips and asking someone to tack weld (ie: MIG) a piece of sheet metal over the hole that the AK pistol grip bolt goes through.

Poof - no more evil features.

NOTE: SKS carbines are about the ONLY sem-autos that are NOT on the list... at least not YET.
Perhaps my Winchester 401 and my Model 100 (both with detachable magazines) will be the NEXT thing they take issue with.

"Know your 'legalese'..." See, that's the problem. I do. I was a NYSP Trooper for better than 20 years and I've seen how "legalise" starts out meaning one thing and ends up meaning another. The way the law is written it uses the phrase "...is capable of accepting a detachable magazine...". I'd like to see case law that defines how far they'll stretch that. The SKS can be modified pretty easily to take a detachable mag, or at least there were kits for that floating around a few years back. I'm just not the sort to trust Cuomo any too much if you know what I mean.

Doesn't really matter because I'm not registering anything anyways, so I don't know why I worry about it. "What SKS? The one I lost in lake several years back?"

Oh, how far I've come since retiring!

ETA- since we're talking SAFE Act, antiques are exempt. The SKS design goes back to 53 I think, I wonder when my Yugo was made?

Oh, and although the SAFE Act allows you to remove the "offensive" parts, it conflicts to an extent with Federal law, 1022 I think it is, that demands either 9 or 11 "offensive" traits be altered. Typical.

NYBushBro

11-24-2013, 08:26 PM

True... I would have to add another USA made part (stock set, etc.) to make it 922r compliant (which they are, presently.)

Thanks for reminding me of that one.

I hear ya about 'evolving definitions' ... here in NY, the term 'assault rifle' is defined by Albany (and subject to change at any moment.) :-)

220swiftfn

11-25-2013, 03:01 AM

That a fer sure thing Dan? I read the law over about 10 times and it looked like the SKS qualified since the mag can be taken out and replaced with a removable mag?

And as with everything else with these types of laws, if you leave the attached magazine in place, you are perfectly legal (this is the same as saying that EVERY rifle is banned because someone COULD shorten the barrel to 12" and cut the stock.)

So the SKS in stock form is legal, not sure about my Mossberg 152, but I *think* it squeaks by on D.O.M.

Dembasturds, we NEED the option of recall, this demonstrates it, if nothing else......

Dan

Junior1942

11-25-2013, 07:45 AM

Bret4207

11-25-2013, 09:31 AM

Call the BATF headquarters in your state. It's in your phone book. Ask to speak to the person who knows the laws on what is and is not an assault rifle. When you finally get to talk to that person write down his/her name, location, phone number, etc.

BATFE isn't going to do squat for a NY STATE law Junior. I know, rode nights with for years, the guy in charge of the SP gun unit up here. I'm going to have to give him call one of these days and bend his ear. Great guy, should be informative.

Garyshome

11-25-2013, 10:05 AM

Get a paratrooper! It's as light as an sks can get, and it has a chrome bore!

NYBushBro

11-25-2013, 11:32 AM

We're getting off-topic (although it's good to discuss this.)

Junior: the Yugo 59/66 stock wrist was intentionally made thicker to handle the g-launching function (much like the Brits wrapped copper wire around the Enfield stock wrist for the same purpose.)

After reading this yesterday, I gave an older Russian stock a heft test (stood on digital bathroom scale, without and with stock in hand.) It came out to about 1.2 lbs. (NOTE: Tapco Timbersmith SKS stock came out to 2.2 lbs.)

As I noted previously, a Chicom chu wood (catalpa) stock is even lighter than the Russian Baltic birch (it's THAT noticeable when you heft both of them.) I'm unsure of what wood the Yugo's used, and it just may be a denser hardwood.

If you can get your mitts on an older Russian or chinese stock (and it won't fit), it might be possible to use those dimensions as a template, fire up your orbital sander, and slim down the Yugo stock to the Russian dimensions - since the collector value is long gone from your mods, and since we can (hopefully) assume that the USSR and Chicom rifles were designed to function with that amount of wood around the wrist/forearm.)

(I agree with Bret's idea of eliminating some wood under the buttplate with a Forstner bit - plus you could use the extra holes for waterproof matches, etc. like the survival rifles do.)

If you can drop a pound from the stock, combined with your mods to the barrel, you might just make the weight reduction you are hoping for. (Free advice is worth what you pay for it... caveat emptor.)

SIDE NOTE: just snagged 1K IMI brass off of GB, so I'm looking forward to testing out your HOG LOAD - although we don't have the plethora of 'moving targets' (ie: hawgs) that you have in the bayou - at least not yet.

Junior1942

11-25-2013, 02:26 PM

Brushbro, my SKS stock weighs 2 lbs 2.6 oz which is like lead compared to the 1.2 lb Russian stock you mentioned. If any of y'all see one for sale let me know.

NYBushBro

11-25-2013, 11:10 PM

The Russians are going for 4-6 bills now on GB... depending on condition (of course.) Glad I bought mine a couple of years ago.

If you know of someone nearby or within driving distance) who has a Chicom (or Russian), I would at least see how a replacement stock fits (or doesn't fit). I think the Yugo Model 59's (carbon copies of the Russians) would take those stocks; not sure about the 59/66's though.

Sandpaper is much cheaper. :-)

Junior1942

11-26-2013, 08:47 AM

./.... Sandpaper is much cheaper. :-)BushBro, I'll have to take a long hard look at my stock before I put sandpaper to it. After the metal came off the muzzle area I raised the rifle almost painlessly, so maybe losing that chunk of metal at the end of the barrel might be weight reduction enough. Some of it will have to be re-mounted so we shall see. I will take a grinder to the excesss metal remaining around the front sight.

I also think it's possible to make a new entire front sight from aluminum. It could mount like those cool Whitt clamp-on muzzle brakes. Another idea is to bend a 1/8" thick, 1" wide aluminum bar around the barrel. Spread it at the top to protect the fiber optic front. Another idea is to leave all the front metal off and install a scout scope. But that would add circa 1 lb weight. Decisions, decisions. At least thinking and making decisions keeps me out of the local honky tonk.

Junior1942

11-27-2013, 12:38 PM

The overall rifle weight before: 8 lbs, 5.2 oz
Now with all front sight parts + Williams 5D rear removed = 8 lbs, 0.2 oz.
So I gained/removed only 5 oz. That ain't much.

My plan now is/was one of the www.scoutscopes.com mounts + a 6.5 oz Leupold 2x20 scope. With rings, that's all about 1 lb total weight added. Or a suddenly too heavy 8+ lb rifle is 9+ lbs.

By the way, both 6-48 mount screws on the side-of-the-receiver mounted 5D sight were loose, not even finger tight :-( That doesn't look good for mounting something even close to that bolt cover.

roverboy

11-27-2013, 01:51 PM

Junior, I'd like to see you get it down to a comfortable weight but, SKS's are a little hefty. I've always thought that for a lower powered military round that they are too heavy. Imagine if the M1 Carbines weighed 9 lbs. Let us know if you get it figured out.

Junior1942

11-27-2013, 07:38 PM

I'll start working on it again when the weather warms a little. There's no heat in my shop/spare bedroom. I want it ready for pig season starting at the end of January if the river doesn't overflow and my health doesn't worsen. The pig hunt story at the end of one of my linked articles took place in the exact spot I want to hunt again. They'll be there after mussells.

flounderman

11-27-2013, 08:06 PM

Cutting the barrel back makes a difference in the balance. I have a Browning BAR in 30-06 someone cut several inches off from and it changes the balance considerably. Makes the gun feel noticeably lighter. You might not think taking 4 oz off the end of the barrel would make much difference but it does.

NYBushBro

11-28-2013, 11:18 AM

JR: I just looked on flea-bay and there are quite a few SKS stocks listed. Might be worth a $20-30 gamble rather than re-working the original stock - just in case you want to re-use it.

Junior1942

11-28-2013, 12:06 PM

JR: I just looked on flea-bay and there are quite a few SKS stocks listed. Might be worth a $20-30 gamble rather than re-working the original stock - just in case you want to re-use it.Thank you! I just bought one there for less than $50 shipped. It's for a Russian, the seller thinks, but I can drill and whack and cut at will on it, and I bet I can both lighten it and make it fit! It's already OD green, too, which fits my style!

NYBushBro

11-28-2013, 04:42 PM

Thank you! I just bought one there for less than $50 shipped. It's for a Russian, the seller thinks, but I can drill and whack and cut at will on it, and I bet I can both lighten it and make it fit! It's already OD green, too, which fits my style!

I might suggest sooting up the action with lamp-black and seeing where it rubs... and making alterations accordingly.

Junior1942

11-28-2013, 04:56 PM

I might suggest sooting up the action with lamp-black and seeing where it rubs... and making alterations accordingly.Will do. It'll arrive next week late so we'll see what happens then.

220swiftfn

11-29-2013, 06:21 AM

Don't know if this fits your need, but a good rear peep would be the Techsights one, replaces the takedown latch, and everything references off of the receiver, not the cover. Added bonus, you gain almost a foot of sight radius....

Dan

Junior1942

11-29-2013, 07:48 AM

Dan, I have a 5D on it which works well.
http://www.castbullet.com/shooting/photos/sks19t.jpg

NYBushBro

12-04-2013, 08:29 PM

Junior: Keep us posted on the SKS stock swap.

I'm guessing that people from other forums will be giving this thread the sniff test...

Junior1942

12-04-2013, 08:44 PM

The UPS truck was SUPPOSED to deliver it today. But noooooo...... Maybe tomorrow. I saw the UPS truck at the beautiful downtown Tullos post office this afternoon, and about an hour later it went down my road to my cousin's. Didn't stop here coming or going. If this is one of those cheap deliverys which the UPS man delivers to the PO and the PO rural route lady delivers the next day, I'm gonna be POed to the max.

PS: a phone call to scoutscopes.com gave me the weight of their mount including rail--2.1 oz. So 2.1 + 6.5 for a Leupold 2x20 + ?? for rings means circa 12 oz for a scope total. We shall see....

Junior1942

12-04-2013, 08:54 PM

Junior: Keep us posted on the SKS stock swap.

I'm guessing that people from other forums will be giving this thread the sniff test...I'm sure they will. The two SKS articles on my site are 2nd only in hits to my M94 takedown article.

NYBushBro

12-04-2013, 09:08 PM

Junior1942

12-05-2013, 08:42 AM

You may want to put another article on the Frugal Outdoorsman... if this stock swap works.

Taking a pound off of your stock and adding ~ 1lb for a scope and rings... perhaps a wash (but an efficient one.)I plan to do just that. I've been weighing removed parts and taking notes for an article. It will either be removing ~ 2 lbs weight and adding a scope or removing ~1 lb weight and going back to peep sights. The fact that BOTH 5D mounting screws were loose even though they were tightly screwed into the receiver and not the cover bothers me. I made sure when I originally mounted the 5D that the back of the sight cleared the bolt cover. So the sight had clearance and loosened anyway. I think cover vibrations when the bolt clanged against the rear of the cover made the receiver vibrate too.

I've carefully examined the 5D base, and there's room for another 6-48 mounting screw and an added 5-44 insurance mounting screw. That would give a total of 4 mounting screws instead of the original 2. That should keep the sight securely mounted. But I said "should" in reference to the sights on a dangerous game rifle. When I was circa 16 I spent 10 minutes, which seemed like 10 hours, in a tree while a wild hog raged below me. I was lithe and lean then. I'm 71 now and fat and plagued with arthritic knees and ankles.

CastingFool

12-05-2013, 09:11 AM

Junior, don't mean any disrespect, but did you use blue Loctite on the sight screws when you first mounted the sight?

Junior1942

12-05-2013, 02:42 PM

Junior, don't mean any disrespect, but did you use blue Loctite on the sight screws when you first mounted the sight?Yep, sure did. Cleaned holes & screws with rubbing alcohol and put blue Loctite on the screw threads.

Mk42gunner

12-05-2013, 05:40 PM

Junior1942

12-05-2013, 06:51 PM

How thick is the receiver where the tapped holes are? Reason I ask is there may not be enough thickness to get enough threads for holding. (It has been several years since I had an SKS apart).

Weird as it sounds I have had better luck getting screws to stay tight by using varnish or linseed oil than with blue locktite.

Also on thin material (where there will be less than four threads), I generally use a #32 or #33 drill instead of a #31 as the tap drill for 6-48 threads. To me it seems to give more completely formed threads, and those little screws can use all the engagement they can get. Tap it slow with lots of oil and I haven't had a problem yet.

Just some ideas that may help,

RobertRobert, your idea was a good one. I checked the 5D mounting screws & holes. I can get 1/2t more thread purchase on the front 5D mount screw and a big 3t more on the rear one. Plus, both 6-48 screws are many years old, low quality, and not threaded close to the head. In other words, the full flat-bottom of the screws's Fillister heads weren't pressing on the mount. Unless I go with a scope, you have helped me keep that 5D tight if it goes back on the SKS. Thank you! You'll get a credit in the future article!

PS: no UPS delivery today :-(

Junior1942

12-09-2013, 03:33 PM

My stock is *supposed* to arrive Wednesday. There'll be a Thursday update on fit, etc. IF it arrives.....

DaveInFloweryBranchGA

12-09-2013, 10:55 PM

Junior,

Don't forgot what season it is. UPS and such are working at full capacity right now, delivering Christmas. It'll be there on time more than likely, but not likely to be early. I ordered something from Amazon Friday night and normally it would be here, but it didn't make it out of Gainesville, GA today, 20 minutes away where the hub is. My guess would be the delivery truck to this area was full. But it's scheduled for Wednesday and my bet is it'll be here by then. I trust Brown to come through this time of year.

Dave

Junior1942

12-10-2013, 06:53 AM

Thanks Dave, the Christmas rush never crossed my mind.

KCSO

12-10-2013, 10:47 AM

Junior I think a poachers stock, all hollowed out in the buttstock would help too???

Junior1942

12-10-2013, 11:42 AM

Junior I think a poachers stock, all hollowed out in the buttstock would help too???What is a poacher's stock???

KCSO

12-10-2013, 01:33 PM

Tis was the stock with the hollowed out butt that was found on a lot of old poachers guns in England. Basicly the stock was a butt and a run of wood top and bottom and that's it... I was just messing with you. Althought i did copy one for a fellow who wanted a flintlock like that.

Junior1942

12-11-2013, 05:24 PM

The stock arrived--poorly packaged and with a repairable chip knocked out of the very front. I'll epoxy it back in place in a few minutes. The good news is, It's 14.2 oz lighter than the old one.

2 lb 3.6 oz = old and 1 lb 5.4 oz new.

A side by side look showed the inletting, etc., in the same places old and new. More later.

PS: It fits. Some minor fitting, and I believe I have a new, much lighter stock. The plan now, barring unexpected problems, is a scoutscopes.com mount and a Leupold or Burris scout scope. Hopefully, I'll end up with a scoped SKS weighing in the vicinity of ~7 1/2 lbs instead of ~ 8 1/2 lbs---with much weight removed from the very front, which will ease the pain in my arthritic left arm when I raise the rifle. Much more later.

Junior1942

12-12-2013, 12:58 PM

The stock fit with only pocket knife wood trimming in one spot, and as it was spray painted sans barreled action, it needed pocket knife paint scraping above and below the rear hole where the recoil lug hook catches the edge of the trigger guard.

Weight now sans sling and sans anything on or behind the muzzle = 7 lb 1.6 oz. Best of all, I can raise the rifle and hold it raised with only minor pain in my left arm.

Now I have to decide on scout scope or peep sights. Even with a scope and its stuff I will have a less than 8 lb rifle.

Junior1942

12-12-2013, 07:01 PM

......Now I have to decide on scout scope or peep sights. Even with a scope and its stuff I will have a less than 8 lb rifle.I'm going back with peep sights. I'll start with a new 5D base/mount as the one I had on the rifle has part of the back filed/ground away for some fitting reason by a previous owner. I'll do away with the 5D's tilt and make the base level with the receiver. (It slipped when I drilled the rear hole :-( ) Then I'll add another 6-48 or a 5-44 mounting screw.

I'll also raise the epoxied-in Fire Sight front so I'll have ~.125" more height. That will get the 5D top more away from the bolt cover vibrations. And give me adjustment room for shooting the Lee soup can @ hopefully 2,000 fps.

I'll grind away as much of the metal on the original chopped-off front sight as possible.

That's the plan . . . so far. . . . If I decide against the peep sights later, it all will come off easily and I'll go with a scout scope. Peep sights cost = $0. Scout scope cost = ~ $350.

Junior1942

12-14-2013, 03:13 PM

Just finished the 5D reinstallation. Yon Loctite is drying. The "Before" photo is below. Notice the downward rear tilt due to something slipping and making the rear mounting hole too low. I had to wallow out the hole through the base and drill another countersink. When I finally got it to fit, level, I used a 6-48 T-10 screw for extra torque. The extra torque stripped the threads in the receiver :-(

I had to do more drilling/wallowing and retapped for 8-40. As that screw entered a lug inside the receiver, I drilled & tapped for about 1/4" more threads. The tapped-over 6-48 to 8-40 threads would have probably worked, but now with those threads + 1/4" of new threads the "probably" is "will."

The base now has three mounting screws instead of the original two 6-48 screws. They are a forward 6-48, a center 8-40, and a rearward 5-44. I used a base from a new 5D I had on hand. All three screws are new and originally too long and were cut off to give maximum thread purchase in the receiver side. The new mount's back has .005" clearance to the receiver cover. Now to lighten and rework the original front sight.

http://www.castbullet.com/shooting/photos/sks19t.jpg

Artful

12-17-2013, 09:22 AM

You had just too much fun with that rear sight install. The NcStar extend eye relief scopes seem to be working well with my 7.62x54R scout build and quite a bit cheaper than the ones you mentioned.

Junior1942

12-17-2013, 11:24 AM

Artful, a couple of years ago I did a side-by-side dim light test of several different scout scopes. Leupold and Burris were by far the best. Since then I tested a Nikon against Leupold and Burris, and it was also good. No more cheap scopes for me.

Junior1942

12-17-2013, 05:56 PM

Final weight = 7 lb 4.2 oz. Original weight = 8 lb 5.2 oz. I've knocked off and sawed off exactly 1 lb 1 oz. Still some front sight work, maybe, but I'll know after I shoot for POI check tomorrow. I'm a happy camper. :-)

PS: I see three areas for possible weight reduction. The chopped and altered front sight now weighs ~ 1.5 oz. The receiver cover weighs ~ 4.5 oz. The butt plate is steel, with steel screws, with a steel trapdoor and weighs 1.4 oz.

If the first two items were made of aluminum, plus replace the butt plate with rubber and the two big ol' butt plate screws with aluminum, plus drill the stock, the weight of the rifle could be below 7 lbs. Food for thought.

tdoor4570

12-18-2013, 01:02 PM

wish I had an 8 1/2 lb rifle most of mine weigh 9 to 14 lbs but I don't want to change them

Garyshome

12-18-2013, 01:11 PM

Sell it to me for $50.00 shipped and get an AR

725

12-18-2013, 02:43 PM

725

12-18-2013, 02:44 PM

Junior1942

12-18-2013, 06:08 PM

Sell it to me for $50.00 shipped and get an ARNot for $1000 + an AR.

Junior1942

12-18-2013, 06:12 PM

Jr.,
Maybe too late for your lightening project, but I've used the Williams fiber optic SKS sight kit. Rear factory sight is replaced with a peep and the front sight is replaced with a fiber optic insert. Works great. I love a scope / scout scope for my old eyes, but this set up is very accurate and easy to use.The front Fire Sight sight doesn't fit YUGO grenade launcher versions. The front sights are too tall. The Fire Sight insert part is on mine with help of epoxy.

NYBushBro

12-20-2013, 12:47 AM

Looking forward to the next chapter in this epic saga... particularly if you can get the NOE 195 FN crankin'.

Some of you fellas might not understand my interest in this story... but two words describe it in a nutshell: hillbilly heaven.

Junior1942

12-20-2013, 10:08 AM

Here's a look at the new, altered 5D. The screw sticking up is a new elevation lock screw--a 6-48 x 3/4". If it gets in the way, I'll saw it off and put a screwdriver slot in it.

The mount screws on the bottom are, L to R: a trimmed, slightly longer 6-48 to replace the original 6-48; a new 8-40 x 1/2" T-10 Torx which is trimmed one thread shy of bottoming out; and a 5-44 which began as a 5-44 x 1" and is now trimmed even with the other side of the receiver.

So far after a few preliminary shots the mount is still secure. The POI is on @ 25 yards with the sight settings you see here. There's enough up and down adjustment to move POI ~6" up and down @ 50 yards. If the sun pokes out today I'll do some 50 yard shooting with Wolf 124 grs and 311041 178 grs.
http://www.castbullet.com/shooting/photos/sks24.jpg

Rustyleee

12-20-2013, 11:01 AM

Jr, I've been thinking about this ever since I first saw these posts. I know you have your new stock to use, but something you might want to try that won't cost you anything would be to wrap the old stock up in newspaper and get it really hot. You should be able to "cook" a lot of old oil out of that old stock. Keep changing the paper as it soaks up the old oil.

Junior1942

12-21-2013, 08:13 AM

With only 4 rounds through this rifle after the above 5D mount re-installation I can't say with 100% certainty it won't shoot loose. But there's two reasons I don't believe it will:

(1) No part of the 5D mount touches the vibrating cover. The upper rear of the mount is file-clearanced .005" to the cover. Also the left end of the take-down lever, seen above as a half-moon at the right edge of the 5D mount, lies below the side of the receiver and doesn't touch the 5D mount. If it did, I would have filed it for clearance.

(2) The 8-40 x 1/2" Torx screw in the center has ~ 3/8" of threads through both the receiver and a lug on the inside of the receiver. About 3/8" = ~ 15 threads purchase. Note that only 1 mounting screw has room to enter that lug. 15 threads purchase on a highly torqued-down #8 Torx screw makes for the screw staying tight. Then there's the added 5-44 screw. Then there's the extra insurance of both the 6-48 and the 5-44 screw being originally too long and trimmed for maximum thread purchase.

All the above makes for a 5D mount which isn't shooting loose. But we shall see.....

Junior1942

12-30-2013, 04:53 PM

After maybe 50 rounds downrange, all screws are still tight. I'm now shooting the 30-180-FN RCBS @ 197 grs RTL and sized .309" because that's the RTL cast bullets I had on hand. With 1.8cc of Surplus 4895 it's feeding and ejecting pefectly. With the bullet seated so far down in the case, crimped in the 2nd groove down from the top, it's a full case, i.e., compressed. I doubt a case would hold 1.85cc of powder.

At 30 yards off the side of a tree with a COLD wind blowing and making me shiver, it put 3 in 1 1/2" with 2 in 1/2". I can't check velocity because my Chrony won't work in overcast skies, but I guess the MV @ 1600 fps. That's a 197 gr FN bullet @ 1600 fps. I'll cast some bullets from my NOE mold and size them .310" or .311" when it warms a little.

One thought. I shot several rounds with the 1.058" OAL RTL, 197 gr, w/GC, RCBS bullet seated in the 3rd groove down. Although every round functioned perfectly, there's not much nose clearance in the magazine, and the nose engraved the rifling. The possibility of a miss-feed or a pulled bullet exists with the bullet seated in the 3rd groove down. However, a case with the RCBS bullet so seated would hold 1.9cc of powder I believe.

My newly-lightweight SKS is ready for the hog woods. Or the bear woods. Ten 197 gr bullets fired even @ 1600 fps but as fast as a scared man could pull the trigger, would put down any bear. I think.....

Artful

12-30-2013, 11:35 PM

Sounds like a successful customization - congratulations

What's up with your Chrony, mine works with overcast sky's

Junior1942

12-31-2013, 07:50 AM

Sounds like a successful customization - congratulations

What's up with your Chrony, mine works with overcast sky'sMine won't even work on cloudy days. Full sunshine only.

Lead Fred

12-31-2013, 08:34 AM

Sights are for weenies

92076

Junior1942

12-31-2013, 09:21 AM

Now we know why God made blondes AND redheads.

Junior1942

01-03-2014, 04:30 PM

One round over the Chrony: 197 gr RCBS 30-180-FN, 1.8cc surplus 4895, = 1609 fps. 100 yds = 1380 fps; 833 fpe; -3" drop from 50 yd zero; SD =.29. It would put a hole all the way through anything in the lower 48 and most anywhere else.

Mk42gunner

01-04-2014, 02:23 AM

Sounds like it will work to me Junior; a ~200 grain boolit at ~1600fps beats an original .32-40, and I am sure a lot of deer and hogs fell to them from leveractions about a hundred years ago.

Robert

Junior1942

01-04-2014, 08:43 AM

Sounds like it will work to me Junior; a ~200 grain boolit at ~1600fps beats an original .32-40, and I am sure a lot of deer and hogs fell to them from leveractions about a hundred years ago.

RobertYep, I have full confidence in that load, especially considering 100 yards would be a maximum range with 20 to 75 yards more likely.

The load shows zero pressure signs. I'll try the 195 gr NOE bullet with a slightly faster powder eventually and see if I can get 1700 fps, but, frankly, there is no need. I'll save the .309" 30-180-FN bullets for my Win 94 and my Contender, and I'll cast 10 lbs--a pot load--of the .310" NOE bullets with the 4-cavity NOE mold. They'll be strickly SKS bullets.

The only thing I don't like about shooting non-Rusky ammo in my SKS is the loss of cases. So far, I've lost two of my Win cases :-( They hit the grass and leaves and "poof" they're gone. For shooting off my front porch through the Chrony I think I'll rig a pillow case on a clothes hanger to stop the cases from flying out into the yard. It bugs me severely to lose a good case :-(

Mk42gunner

01-05-2014, 02:17 AM

That's why my current 7.62x39 is a bolt action, although I would like to have my first 1954 Russian SKS back.

Robert

NYBushBro

01-19-2014, 04:55 PM

Yep, I have full confidence in that load, especially considering 100 yards would be a maximum range with 20 to 75 yards more likely.

The load shows zero pressure signs. I'll try the 195 gr NOE bullet with a slightly faster powder eventually and see if I can get 1700 fps, but, frankly, there is no need. I'll save the .309" 30-180-FN bullets for my Win 94 and my Contender, and I'll cast 10 lbs--a pot load--of the .310" NOE bullets with the 4-cavity NOE mold. They'll be strickly SKS bullets.

The only thing I don't like about shooting non-Rusky ammo in my SKS is the loss of cases. So far, I've lost two of my Win cases :-( They hit the grass and leaves and "poof" they're gone. For shooting off my front porch through the Chrony I think I'll rig a pillow case on a clothes hanger to stop the cases from flying out into the yard. It bugs me severely to lose a good case :-(

Are you using the towel-drop or water-quenching for your tests with the NOE bullet?

Junior1942

01-19-2014, 05:44 PM

Are you using the towel-drop or water-quenching for your tests with the NOE bullet?I haven't yet cast any bullets from the NOE RCBS copy. But when I do, they'll be Air Cooled. I'm using real RCBS 30-180FN bullets I cast several years ago from WW alloy. They're 197 grs RTL. I doubt there will be much difference between them and the NOE copy bullets. But we shall see.

However, I will probably cast from a pot of reclaimed shot alloy which gives slightly softer bullets. Slightly heavier, too.

NYBushBro

01-19-2014, 09:26 PM

I haven't yet cast any bullets from the NOE RCBS copy. But when I do, they'll be Air Cooled. I'm using real RCBS 30-180FN bullets I cast several years ago from WW alloy. They're 197 grs RTL. I doubt there will be much difference between them and the NOE copy bullets. But we shall see.

However, I will probably cast from a pot of reclaimed shot alloy which gives slightly softer bullets. Slightly heavier, too.

Thanks.

I'll be keeping my eye on this thread... as I'm finding that my Isotope-core + 2% (air-cooled) is running around 10 BHN, which would provide (more than) adequate expansion @1600-1800 fps... if I can get the SKS to group at that velocity.

Junior1942

01-20-2014, 09:15 AM

Thanks.

I'll be keeping my eye on this thread... as I'm finding that my Isotope-core + 2% (air-cooled) is running around 10 BHN, which would provide (more than) adequate expansion @1600-1800 fps... if I can get the SKS to group at that velocity.You don't need much or even any expansion with a big ol' meplat. Read about the gray goo geyser during my expansion tests with 7mm bullets, including the 7mm Soup Can group buy from this forum: http://www.castbullet.com/shooting/7tcu2.htm

NYBushBro

01-20-2014, 10:44 AM

You don't need much or even any expansion with a big ol' meplat. Read about the gray goo geyser during my expansion tests with 7mm bullets, including the 7mm Soup Can group buy from this forum: http://www.castbullet.com/shooting/7tcu2.htm

Great article! My Mausers thank you.

roverboy

01-23-2014, 08:14 PM

Real good read there Junior. I enjoyed it.

Junior1942

02-16-2014, 06:44 PM

My experimenting on the Fat 311041 and RCBS 30-180(197grRTL)-FP in my SKS is over. The 30-180 doesn't work well with my surplus 4895 and, probably, neither will the 195 NOE if I ever get around to casting some of them. The problem is the 7.62x39's case capacity. At the 24.0 grs s4895 level, the longer 197 gr bullet heavily compresses the powder, and there's no room to seat the bullet out a little. The AV of 1770 fps is good--great, actually--but at the risk of an un-seated bullet in a dangerous game rifle. The next faster powder I have is H4198, and a 1.6cc charged round gave extraction problems and only 1637 fps. I wish I had some H4895, but I don't.

But the Fat 311041 at ~180 grs RTL is a success story. If you'll remember in my first article, 23 grs s4895 gave me ~1700 fps and perfect feeding and ejection. However, lots of shooting for this upcoming YUGO-weight-loss article showed not-so-perfect ejection. It turned out that 23 grs s4895 didn't give enough pressure to lock back the bolt every shot. In fact, it would lock back maybe 33% of the time. The cases ejected 95% of the time.

When I realized there was a problem, I started loading only one round. The rifle would fire and eject almost every case, but the bolt never locked back. Remember that! The rifle will eject and feed seemingly like normal, but if the pressure is actually slightly too low the action is a misfeed waiting to happen! Hello, Mr Boar Hog! Please give me time to clear this jam!

Long story short, 25.0 grs/1.9cc s4895, slightly compressed, gave me 100% feeding and ejection and bolt lockback. And an AV of 1829 fps w/an ES of 50 fps. This with the ~180 gr Fat 311041 group buy. No groups yet, but there will be in the eventual article.

Junior1942

02-18-2014, 05:38 PM

Artful

02-18-2014, 06:30 PM

Looking GOOD :drinks:

DaveInFloweryBranchGA

02-19-2014, 02:27 AM

Final weight loss results: In the door, the YUGO weighed 9 lb, 7.2 oz. It now weighs 7 lb, 7.4 oz. It lost 31.8 oz or almost 2 lbs. The OAL is now exactly 39". I am right proud of myself.

Here she be:
97114

After all the farting around over the years, it seems to me, depending on the cartridge and one's age, a rifle between 7 and 8 pounds always seems to be ideal for hunting purposes. Under 7 and most of them have junk plastic stocks and kick like a mule. Much over 8 and you dread carrying the beast where you're going to hunt, especially if it's any distance from the truck.

Many years ago, when I was a young man without much money just out of the service, I hunted with a Chinese SKS very similar in appearance to the one you have now. I didn't have to remove much, but I did remove the bayonet from the rifle to lose some weight. I had to sell that rifle for some money and missed it for many years. Finally got lucky and bought a similar one last year. Looks like you have yourself a good one too.

Have fun with it hunting those hogs. I'm jealous, they don't appear to have a lot of those porkers running around Northeast Georgia yet.

NYBushBro

03-09-2014, 08:07 PM