7X57 Mauser

[La Dano]

Is anyone casting for 7X57? I've got a sporter 95 action I'm thinking about casting for. Also about to pickup a 98 in the same cal.

[303Guy]

Unfortunately, no. But the 7x57 has to be about the sexiest cartridge there is. Even sexier than the Brit. I've thought of chambering a Lee Enfield in 7x57 and I bet it would work. So would a 9.3x57 .... Now that would make a great cast boolit shooter!:mrgreen:

[eljefeoz]

I cast 0.285 RCBS in 145 and 168 gr. and a Lee 130 gr
use them with 18-21gr of 4227 equivalent alloy is 50:50 coww : pure lead

[Larry Gibson]

I cast for my "sporterized" M95 7x57. You will, no doubt, find the milsurp barrels to be "oversize" at .286 - .289 +/-. That's not really oversize as it was the European standard groove diameter for the 7mm. British and US is .284. I have the 287448, 285377 and the original Loverin style RCBS 28-168-FN moulds. I mostly use the 28-168-FN as it drops at .287 - .288 and is the best fit in my M95. It also fits perfectly from the GC at the base of the neck to the lead driving band just kissing the leade, basically a perfect fit in the throat. The short stuppy 287448 is very good for small game and plinking loads. I have a .288 H die I lube them in.

Suggest a longer 150 gr or heavier Loverin design that drops at .288 minimum with #2 alloy (best to slug your barrels though). If the bores are good that bullet should shoot quite good even if initially a thou or so undersize.

The "oversize" barrels are why most do not shoot cast in them.

Larry Gibson

8831188310

[Calamity Jake]

I to cast the RCBS 7MM-168 along with Lyman 287346 and 287442.
The only one I shoot with any regularity is the RCBS in a 1909 Brazilian, the mold has to be
beagled to get as cast dia. .290 then sized at .289 for the 1909 to shoot good.

[Bret4207]

Been shooting my 95 for years. Been some time since I last played with it but IIRC I was using the RCBS 28-168FN and 2400. I think 14.0 grs. Nothing special in the accuracy dept really, but I wouldn't stand downrange from me if you took my cookies. Mine I'm STILL working on getting the jacket fouling out of. I've been working on it for 15 years at least! Every time I think I've about got it I'll see some lead grab in a new place. Personally, I love my 95 and the 7x57. I think Americas hunters would be a lot better off with 7x57s than the various magnums that encourage ridiculous Hail Mary shots and world class flinching.

[fouronesix]

. Personally, I love my 95 and the 7x57. I think Americas hunters would be a lot better off with 7x57s than the various magnums that encourage ridiculous Hail Mary shots and world class flinching.

No truer words spoken!

Don't know about the groove dias of other 7mm 95s, but mine is .286 in original Chilean M95. Really good luck with the 160 gr Lyman 287641 of fairly soft alloy over 18-20 gr 5744 as per Lyman data. Sized just enough to seat gas check- final sized diameter is about .285-6.

I might add that my Chilean M95 is nearly unfired and definitely unissued. That may account for success with the bore riding 287641. With bullet seated to normal depth, when chambered, the lands do lightly engrave the nose.

[atr]

I cast for my Chilean DWM M1895 7x57 using Loverin 150 gr and a Lyman 135 gr. The Loverin gives the best accuracy

[screwcutter]

I've been shooting the 287641, just seat gas check, pan lubed with Lyman's start charge of 5744. They come out about .286, I have a 1908 with a tight groove of .287 that I am messing with.

[koehn,jim]

By all means you should cast for it. Most European 7mm are around .286 and need a larger than American dia.284, there was a group buy on here a few months back for a 150 grain .288 mold that works great in my 1908 Brazilian.You need to slug your bore and go by that to pick a boolit.

[UBER7MM]

I've been shooting the 287641, just seat gas check, pan lubed with Lyman's start charge of 5744. They come out about .286, I have a 1908 with a tight groove of .287 that I am messing with.
.
I'll second the Lyman 287641. Loaded under IMR-4895 or like burning powder is a real winner in a 7x57 case. It's a bore rider design, so push the COAL as far as your magazine and throat will allow. For j-bullets, I like a 150-154 grain under a minimum dose of IMR-4320. Check your manuals for the particulars. If you have a 1:8.66" mil-barrel twist, you might consider a 175 grain boolits/bullets. It's a great cartridge to cast, reload and shoot.

Enjoy,

[303carbine]

I have a modern Remington 700 in 7x57, it is amazingly accurate and puts venison in the freezer. The 303 British is another game getter that has been around for a while.
I just picked up an all matching 1945 BSA No5Mk1 today, I blasted a few rounds off today just make sure it works.
I also got an RFI bayonet with it as well, $350 Canadian, I think I did well.
If 303guy would be gracious again and post pics, I will send the pics along to him once they are uploaded onto my computer.:mrgreen:

[Multigunner]

Unfortunately, no. But the 7x57 has to be about the sexiest cartridge there is. Even sexier than the Brit. I've thought of chambering a Lee Enfield in 7x57 and I bet it would work. So would a 9.3x57 .... Now that would make a great cast boolit shooter!:mrgreen:
I've had the same idea. I have checked the fit and feed characteristics of the 7X57 in a No.4 action, it works just fine and ejects smartly.
I suspect it would work just as well in an SMLE, though a 2A action might be a better starting point.

[fa38]

I use the NOE 150 Hunter FN bullet. Casts at .276 nose and .2865 bands. Sized to .285.

21.5 grains Benchmark in the 1895 Chileno.
18.9 grs SPP210 ( 4198 clone) 1909 Argentine.

Both bores are like new.
The Chileno load shoots a bit bigger groups from the 1909.
SPP210 and Varget both work okay in the Chileno but the Benchmark load was best.

[KCSO]

I had a 91 Mauser with a commercial (Douglas?) barrel fitted in 7mm Mauser and it was a honey. The 7MM was plenty for deer and the gun shot with about any load. I made up a M95 manlicher sporter for a friend and he's been shooting cast in it with no problems for over 20 years, but he does have to cast bullets from a mould I laped out for him to 287.

[Hang Fire]

[QUOTE=Larry Gibson;2488468]I cast for my "sporterized" M95 7x57. You will, no doubt, find the milsurp barrels to be "oversize" at .286 - .289 +/-. That's not really oversize as it was the European standard groove diameter for the 7mm. British and US is .284. I have the 287448, 285377 and the original Loverin style RCBS 28-168-FN moulds. I mostly use the 28-168-FN as it drops at .287 - .288 and is the best fit in my M95. It also fits perfectly from the GC at the base of the neck to the lead driving band just kissing the leade, basically a perfect fit in the throat. The short stuppy 287448 is very good for small game and plinking loads. I have a .288 H die I lube them in.

Suggest a longer 150 gr or heavier Loverin design that drops at .288 minimum with #2 alloy (best to slug your barrels though). If the bores are good that bullet should shoot quite good even if initially a thou or so undersize.

The "oversize" barrels are why most do not shoot cast in them.

Larry Gibson

QUOTE]

I like that rifle Larry.

[Larry Gibson]

QUOTE]I like that rifle Larry.[/QUOTE]

I got it about 90% done from a guy who got it at the Puyallup gunshow. No idea who did the original work but it wasn't done bad. The barreled action was in "new" condition. I finished putting it together and put the Redfield receiver sight on it, converted it to cock on open, forged the bolt handle and put the hooded ramp front sight on it. It is a sweet little hunting rifle.

Larry Gibson

88716

[Multigunner]

QUOTE]I like that rifle Larry.

I got it about 90% done from a guy who got it at the Puyallup gunshow. No idea who did the original work but it wasn't done bad. The barreled action was in "new" condition. I finished putting it together and put the Redfield receiver sight on it, converted it to cock on open, forged the bolt handle and put the hooded ramp front sight on it. It is a sweet little hunting rifle.

Larry Gibson

88716

That looks almost exactly like a 6.5 Swedish Mauser a friend sportered back in the 80's. He went whole hog on the sights and mounted lever actuated quick detachable scope mounts and a British No.32 sniper scope.
The finished rifle was insanely accurate and quick handling.

[303Guy]

If 303guy would be gracious again and post pics, I will send the pics along to him once they are uploaded onto my computer.Yes of course.

[Bret4207]

QUOTE]I like that rifle Larry.

I got it about 90% done from a guy who got it at the Puyallup gunshow. No idea who did the original work but it wasn't done bad. The barreled action was in "new" condition. I finished putting it together and put the Redfield receiver sight on it, converted it to cock on open, forged the bolt handle and put the hooded ramp front sight on it. It is a sweet little hunting rifle.

Larry Gibson

88716[/QUOTE]

Looks at lot like my 6.5x257Roberts Arisaka, only mine is much darker and has a pistol grip. That particular rifle is very light, lighter than my 94 Winchester. An absolute joy to carry. I just haven't had time to do much load development.

Gotta love the Mannlicher style!

[MtGun44]

Bret,

My first decent centerfire rifle ever was (is) a DWM Chilean Mauser 95 that was in NRA Excellent when
I got it. Great rifle, although it is so original I haven't ever changed the front sight so it is still way
high, as designed, at 100 yds.

I took my Ruger 7x57 to Africa and impala, blesbok, and a kudu all fell to one shot with it - 160 gr Nosler
Partition. The other game fell to a Marlin 95 .45 70 and a 629 with a scope for two warthogs.

Love the 7x57 and back when I was recoil sensitive, it kept me shooting without kicking my brains out.

Bill

[Bret4207]

Bill, Americas hunters would do far better with the 7x57 than the 30-06 most of the time IMO. Nobody enjoys getting the bat snot kicked out of them, especially in a light rifle, and I've seen an awful, awful lot of guys with a major league flinch that will never admit it.

[Multigunner]

My 95 Mauser kicked at least as hard as my .303 rifles.
The bullet weights and power levels of the milspec ammo are very close.
Of course the 7mm in a modern sporter can usually handle light weight bullets a bit better than .30 and up caliber rifles.

[303Guy]

In Africa the 7x57 was considered a big game rifle. I read story of these folks out in the African bush with a 7x57. One night a lion charged them and the 7x57 spoke at which the lion retreated. Then it charged again and again the 7x57 spoke and again the lion retreated. This went on three more times before the lion gave up. In the morning they found five dead lions! I'm not convinced those weren't mock charges - as far as I know lions don't turn when shot in a charge. I'm told the only dangerous African game that can be turned in a charge when shot is the elephant (and that might take multiple shots).

Anyway, I think of the 7x57 as a great cartridge and I once toyed with the idea of marrying a 7x57 to a Lee Enfield. Today I read of it having being done in Canada in the past. I'd expect the recoil to be about the same as Multigunner has pointed out. Working pressures are about the same too. Oh, one can use the 7x57 rimmed in the Brit (interchangeably with the rimless). What's not to like?:-P

[jjnpg317]

Got a 1893 Spanish 7x57 which was parts gun & no numbers matched anywhere. Barrel looked awful & had been cut short. Slugged and came out at 287. Bought an NOE 288150 and shot it at 288 with IMR4895 and filler. Groups at 50 & 100 yards were very good and recoil didn't beat you down. Only problem I had was with RCBS dies. Too narrow at top and had to polish them.

[Bret4207]

My 95 Mauser kicked at least as hard as my .303 rifles.
The bullet weights and power levels of the milspec ammo are very close.
Of course the 7mm in a modern sporter can usually handle light weight bullets a bit better than .30 and up caliber rifles.

True enough. I'm talking sporter weight rifles with commercial loadings, not 9.5 lbs SMLEs and 215 gr mi surp. My 95 Steyr with the WW2 ammo will loosen anyones fillings. I find my restocked 93 Mauser 7x57 a joy to shoot compared to many more modern rifles in '06, 300 mag, etc. That's what I'm talking about.

BTW- my first 7x57 was a Remington Rolling block with an 18 or 20" barrel. Quite an awesome wee-pon for a 12 year old!

[Larry Gibson]

I picked up a bunch of Herter's and Hornady bullets at a gunshow years ago. About half were 175 RNs. Also have a few pounds of old H4831 so I developed a load that runs right at 2400 fps out my sportered M95 Chilean (pictured in previous post). In the sportered M95 it lets you know you've pulled a trigger when shooting off the bench but in the field when sitting, kneeling and standing the recoil is hardly noticeable. I have a strain guage attached to the M95 and have pressure tested numerous different milsurp and factory 7x57 cartridges. Interesting was some DWM 1917 ammo. Anyways the psi of the developed 175 gr load with H4831 is under the CIP MAP for the 7x57 and less than most milsurp. It shoots right at moa if I can hold that well with my old eyes anymore. Thinking of putting a 2.5X scope on the rifle...........

Larry Gibson

[Multigunner]

Whenever someone writes about the 7mm they usually say it has a light recoil, that would be misleading to some who haven't fired many centerfire rifles.
If someone buys a 7mm rifle expecting recoil on the order of a comparable .243 they would be seriously disappointed.
The 150 grain .30-06 recoils about the same as a 175 gr load in 7mm, but a 150 gr 7mm will have less felt recoil than a .30-06 using the same weight bullet because the 7mm won't get the same velocities.
Before WW1 DWM manufactured a 7X57 cartridge that gave a velocity of over 2900 fps with 154 gr bullet. The load was a bit too hot for the earlier mausers, but the point is that this load would have given greater recoil than the contemporary .30-06 load with 150 gr bullet at 2750 fps.
Theres nothing magical about the bore size.

The 7mm can, if the throat is configured properly , handle lighter weight bullets better than a .30, just as the .243 can handle lighter weight bullets than the 7mm can normally handle.
The smaller the bore size the lighter the bullet that you can use while maintaining a high degree of accuracy.

I liked the 7mm, its a good choice for most any North American game (not sure I'd want to take on a Grizzly with the 7X57), but the cartridge has limitations, especially when it comes to bullets heavier than 175 gr.

The main advantage of the 7mm on Elephant was its excellent penetration when the 175 gr steel jacket round nose was used. These could reach the brain through 2 ft of skull with no problem. Try popping an Elephant with the higher velocity 140 gr soft point and it would probably not turn out so well.

All in all the 7mm is an excellent cartridge, with a very good reputation for accuracy, and powerful enough for all but the most dangerous game.
Since even in its day African hunters looked to more and more powerful cartridges it was not the best cartridge for the big five.
Luckily people in North America don't have Cape Buffalo disputing the right of way, or the Man Eaters of T'Savo coming to call. The 7mm is an excellent choice as a Deer rifle, and for animals in the general weight class up to Moose and Elk.

The few military autoloaders in 7mm are collectors items, FN SAFN in 7mm would be mighty handy even if brother bear came to dinner.

[303Guy]

... on Elephant was its excellent penetration when the 175 gr steel jacket round nose was used. These could reach the brain through 2 ft of skull with no problem.Apparently the 174gr FMJ RN not only could reach the brain but also exited the back of the skull! The 215gr 303 FMJ RN could reach the brain.

[fouronesix]

7x57- really a great and balanced cartridge. No need to hot-rod one to keep up with whatever is perceived as the new norm (marketing or testosterone?) for muzzle vels or energies. My favorite 7x57 hunting load in a bolt sporter is the 150 Nosler Partition at about 2500 fps. My wife killed a pile of deer and elk with that combo.

I currently have an original Chilean M95. I got it in near unfired condition. It likes the Lyman 287641 at about 1500 fps. It is one of my favorite military rifles.

[ColColt]

I've got a 7x57 Winchester Model 70 on the back burner. I think it's a superb little cartridge. I have several boxes of Nosler 140 gr Partition bullets left over from my 7mm Magnum craze in the early 70's and I'll bet it will do great with those.

[UBER7MM]

I've got a 7x57 Winchester Model 70 on the back burner. I think it's a superb little cartridge. I have several boxes of Nosler 140 gr Partition bullets left over from my 7mm Magnum craze in the early 70's and I'll bet it will do great with those.
.
.
ColColt,
140 grains work well in a 1:10" twist barrel. If you have a 1:9" or 1:9.5" twist barrel, you'll be able to use longer & heavier bullets as well. Excellent with cast boolits too. Sounds like a great project. Let us know of your progress.

Safe reloading, shooting, reloading.....

[atr]

Ive been sold on the 7x57 for years.....my favorite load is a 175 gr RN with either IMR 4350 or 4895
if I want more range and less drop then I go for a 160 gr spitzer BT

hard to improve on a great cartridge like the 7x57

[303carbine]

Ive been sold on the 7x57 for years.....my favorite load is a 175 gr RN with either IMR 4350 or 4895
if I want more range and less drop then I go for a 160 gr spitzer BT

hard to improve on a great cartridge like the 7x57

I have had a few 280 Remington, at least three 284 Winchester, two 7mm STW, countless 7mm Remington mags, after all those, I kept my Remington 700 7x57 Mountain rifle.
As you said, it's hard to improve on a great cartridge like the 7x57. I get 2840 fps with a 140 Nosler Partition out of a 22 inch barrel, what's not to like.:mrgreen:
It kills all out of proportion to its size, with no recoil.
My two most favorite cartridges are , the 7x57 Mauser and the only government I trust, the 45-70.

[ColColt]

I've had a sundry of calibers of the years but never a 7x57. Of course, I've never had a 375 H&H either and don't intend to!! I value my old boney shoulder more. There are probably more of a variety for the 7mm clan than any other caliber. I liked my Remington 700 in 7mm Mag but it was a pain to load for. That little short neck after firing would not accept a bullet. I had to buy a reamer and ream the inside of the neck nearly every time or two of firing. I guess the brass would flow more with it being a belted magnum and that short neck. This was Norma brass, also. I think I'd have more enjoyment with the 7x57.

[303Guy]

I don't understand why the 7x57 didn't simply take the world by storm and stay there. Heck, it even looks good. But I do like the idea of the 174gr RN loading. Just a question; with rifles chambered for the 140gr bullets, does one need to seat 174gr bullets deeper for them to chamber? And does it matter?

You know how popular 7mm super magnums are? Well, there's this 7mm super magnum barrel for sale for a few dollars that's been there for quite a long time and I was wondering whether I could shorten the chamber for a more reasonably sized case to fit a Lee Enfield. Or maybe use only the neck and throat and screw it into a chamber ..... :roll:

[MtGun44]

Unfortunately, the old girl is dead and nearly buried. I don't think that there is a single
factory rifle chambered in it today. Killed by the inferior snot-nosed upstart the 7mm-08
that is about the same for 140 and down, but mostly won't match it with heavy bullets.
That, and being a 'tweener' - to long for a short action and too short to take advantage of
a long action. Shows that going first can be a problem.

Sad, sad, sad.

Bill

[Whiterabbit]

I've got a 7x57 Winchester Model 70 on the back burner. I think it's a superb little cartridge. I have several boxes of Nosler 140 gr Partition bullets left over from my 7mm Magnum craze in the early 70's and I'll bet it will do great with those.

a stiff charge of H4350 and those bullets will be on there way, and repeatably.

[Whiterabbit]

But I do like the idea of the 174gr RN loading. Just a question; with rifles chambered for the 140gr bullets, does one need to seat 174gr bullets deeper for them to chamber? And does it matter?

I have a 7x57 sporter (markX) and even being a more modern rifle has the loooong throat. I'd be surprised if many rifles were made to shoot 140's rather than the 175 fmj's. IMO that long long throat is a part of the 7x57's secret sauce.

[Bret4207]

I don't understand why the 7x57 didn't simply take the world by storm and stay there. Heck, it even looks good. But I do like the idea of the 174gr RN loading. Just a question; with rifles chambered for the 140gr bullets, does one need to seat 174gr bullets deeper for them to chamber? And does it matter?

You know how popular 7mm super magnums are? Well, there's this 7mm super magnum barrel for sale for a few dollars that's been there for quite a long time and I was wondering whether I could shorten the chamber for a more reasonably sized case to fit a Lee Enfield. Or maybe use only the neck and throat and screw it into a chamber ..... :roll:

I think if the US military had gone with the 7x57 to replace the Krag it would have taken the numero uno spot the '06 took. I don't think there's all that much practical difference. Commercially, why the 7x57 isn't more popular is the same reason the 6.5x55, 257 Roberts, 8x57, 280 Rem, 35 Whelen, etc aren't more popular. The buying public is a fickle minded crowd that wants the latest, newest, baddest stuff out there. That's why we have 25 or more 30 cal rounds that are within spitting distance of each other. NEW!!! IMPROVED!!! And they don't do one thing any better than the 06 or 300 H+H.

[303carbine]

I have a 7x57 sporter (markX) and even being a more modern rifle has the loooong throat. I'd be surprised if many rifles were made to shoot 140's rather than the 175 fmj's. IMO that long long throat is a part of the 7x57's secret sauce.

My Remington 700 7x57 is long throated, I can seat 150 grain Noslers to an overall length of 3.115 inches, the manual loads to 3.000 inches.
I have loaded dummy rounds of each bullet I shoot, they don't touch any rifling, so there is no over pressure problems.
Accuracy is superb with the little 7, everything I shoot hits the dirt.
The wannabe 7mm-08 can't be loaded as hot and it has no history, no cool factor, no chance of ever making me sell my 7x57 to buy one.

[Whiterabbit]

No Pedigree (the -08). I am comfortable coming out full-snob over the 7x57. What a great cartridge.

[303Guy]

Mmm .... the 257 Roberts is another strangely not so popular caliber. If my 25-303 is anything to go by the 257 should be a real winner. Mind you, the 250 Savage is a great number too. I like the idea of a 35 Whelen too. But then there's the 358 Win, 35-303.

Anyway, my question is, how good is a 7x57 for cast boolits? It sounds like it's not too bad. Better than the 303 Brit maybe?

[MtGun44]

IF you can get them big enough . . . . .

Bill

[Bret4207]

Anyway, my question is, how good is a 7x57 for cast boolits? It sounds like it's not too bad. Better than the 303 Brit maybe?

Lie Bill said, it's all about fit. FIT IS KING! Ina commercial 7x57 it's not hard to do. In ex-military, 1890's-1920's rifles.....it going to depend on just what you can find. It's the same with lots of other calibers. I use a 270 mould for one of my 6.5's!

[Ben]

I think that getting the " fit " correct is MUCH easier done with a commercial 7 X 57 mm rifle.
Here are some groups fired at 50 yards with my Ruger Model 77 stainless 7 X 57 mm rifle. The Lee Soup Can 7 mm cast bullet has been super accurate in my particular rifle. In a military rifle, I couldn't say ? Many have VERY long ( and worn ) throats.




http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v494/haysb/LEE%207%20mm%20Soup%20Can/003.jpg

In the targets below, inner circle is .480 ", the outer dia. of the orange is .890".
50 yards, 5 round groups.
Ben's Lube, bullets sized .2862 " with Hornady gas checks.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v494/haysb/LEE%207%20mm%20Soup%20Can/001-1.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v494/haysb/LEE%207%20mm%20Soup%20Can/002-1.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v494/haysb/LEE%207%20mm%20Soup%20Can/003-1.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v494/haysb/LEE%207%20mm%20Soup%20Can/004-1.jpg

[atr]

89460

7x57 Using a Ruger #1 .... 10 shots at 50 yds

[rattletrap1970]

What was the seating depth on that? COAL or Jump to lands?


89460

7x57 Using a Ruger #1 .... 10 shots at 50 yds

[Ben]

atr

WOW, 10 rounds @ 50 yds. ! !

Very Impressive !

And they tell you that a Ruger #1 ( I have 4 of them ) isn't an accurate rifle..................

[atr]

I was using this Lovern boolit.....and had it seated just to the lands....
89470

and I remember shooting that day....I shot 2 groups of 5....after the first 5 I was very surprised at the accuracy.....then I shot the last 5 and got real nervous about the last shot wondering if I was going to have an "opps" shot....

PS..don't ask me to repeat this string of shots because I doubt if I could !

[Ben]

PS..don't ask me to repeat this string of shots because I doubt if I could !

_________________

I would not want to bet against you.

Ben

[303Guy]

:drinks:

Clearly there is nothing wrong with the 7x57 as a cartridge. Nothing wrong with the bullet design either. I guess that answers my question.

Well, that gives me something to do - to see whether I can approach that with a Brit. I have a mint barrel candidate and an over size bore on a low pressure action (bearing on one lug only - max pressure would be 22,000 CUP).

But I still have a barrel-less action that seems to be looking for a 7x57 barrel. [smilie=1:

[rattletrap1970]

I have a Lyman 7mmSC (Soup can) weighs in at 140.4gr with loob and GC. With H4895 I'm figuring 30.0 gr as a starting load in 7x57 to make an FN49 function. Can anyone give me some quickload data or something to just let me know if my figurings are correct.

I also have a Lyman 287346AV (rounder nose, same weight to the grain).

And a Saeco 070 that looks like an RCBS 7mm-SIL (weights in at 148).

Any reassurance would be appreciated.. LOL

[rjathon]

I have had great luck with a 7mm mold made by Veral Smith. It throws a 160 gr bullet at ~.289 which is super accurate in my "sporterized" 1895 Chilean which is 1895 hardware in a sporter stock. The barrel length, trigger, safety, etc are all original. The first load that I tried, 20 gr of 5744, will shoot sub inch reliably. The bullets fall out of the mold with ease. My only regret is that it is a 2 cavity mold instead of 4.

[rattletrap1970]

Yeah, I just have to have the action cycle reliably. 4895 is generally a good one for that

[FAsmus]

Gentlemen;

I have it on reasonably good authority that the reason the 7x57 didn't "take the world by storm" is because it wasn't deemed suitable for the machine guns that quickly dominated the battlefield soon after its inception.

I resurrected the 7x57 in an old M1908 Brazilian Mauser a couple years ago and it has been a delight ever since.

I shoot the RCBS 7mm-168-SIL over 28.3 gr 4895 as a standard load forever.

Good evening,
Forrest

[ColColt]

Way back in 1969 I had a 30-06 on a Czech BRNO Mauser action. What I'd give now to have that rifle again and fit a 7x57 barrel to it.

[MT Gianni]

I think if the US military had gone with the 7x57 to replace the Krag it would have taken the numero uno spot the '06 took. I don't think there's all that much practical difference. Commercially, why the 7x57 isn't more popular is the same reason the 6.5x55, 257 Roberts, 8x57, 280 Rem, 35 Whelen, etc aren't more popular. The buying public is a fickle minded crowd that wants the latest, newest, baddest stuff out there. That's why we have 25 or more 30 cal rounds that are within spitting distance of each other. NEW!!! IMPROVED!!! And they don't do one thing any better than the 06 or 300 H+H.

Bret, I seem to remember that the 30-03 & 06 came about because using the 8x57 or the 7x57 would have resulted in paying for a patent infringement to the Germans. With the world climate being what it was around th eturn of the cnetury the US military backed out. The story could be just a story but it made sense to me.

[Larry Gibson]

The 30-03 came about because the arsenals were already making 30 cal barrels and 220 gr bullets for the M1892 30-40. The 30-40 was not effective at 1000 yards. Ordnance wanted a cartridge to deliver the same 220 gr RN with effective accuracy to 1000 yards. With the powders available in this country (patent infringements did play a part) it to the case capacity of the 30-03 cartridge to achieve the desired velocity with in reasonable pressures. The 30-06 was merely the adaptation of the 30-03 case to the 150 gr spritzer bullet. Whelen explains it all in his earlier writing as does Hatcher. There was no serious consideration of changing calibers back then from .30 caliber.

Larry Gibson

[Multigunner]

Also since the British, the French, the Germans, the Belgians, the Russians , and Argentina, chose bores of 7.62 on up to 7.92, why would the U S sticking with 7.62 be considered at all unusual?

Remember also that despite the proven mechanical advantage of the 1893-95 Mausers at the time the 7X57 in military FMJ form was noted for being a poor manstopper.
If you read up on evaluation of battle wounds during the Spanish American War you'll find many of those men wounded by the 7mm round nose bullets survived when those wounded in the same spot by a .30 or larger caliber did not, and that among the Cuban guerillas many of the wounded survived chest wounds without any medical care to speak of.
The 7mm 174 gr FMJ was accurate and had greater penetration on obstacles, but was so stable bullets that didn't hit bone passed straight through with little disruption of tissue.
IIRC there's an X-ray in one of the Military medical journals of a man with a 7mm round nose lodged in his brain, the bullet remained there for many years with no further ill effects.
The heavier and larger bullets of other military calibers were also less effective than hoped but did cause a bit more damage than the 7mm.

Bullets smaller than .30 did not achieve great killing power till the spritzer bullets came along just before WW1. With a spritzer even the 6.5 became a better killer of men.

[frnkeore]

Regarding what you guys are calling "spritzers", that's what you squirt out of a bottle. A Spitzer is what is shot out of a gun barrel.

The USA did have to pay Germany for Patent infrigement for our use of their spitzer design.

Frank

[UBER7MM]

[QUOTE=frnkeore;2517456
The USA did have to pay Germany for Patent infrigement for our use of their spitzer design.

Frank[/QUOTE]

I though it was the stripper clip that the US had to pay pattend royalties on.

[Multigunner]

I though it was the stripper clip that the US had to pay pattend royalties on.
It was a long mixed up story.
The Chief of Ordnance had authorized a royalty payment to Mauser to cover use of his stripper clip among other things.
The major design feature of the Mauser has always been the forward mounted opposed locking lugs, but these were reverse engineered by Spandau from a stolen Lebel rifle, so this feature does not appear to have been an issue.
The U S already had several stripper clip designs but the Mauser clips were superior.
The Comptroller of the Treasury then made a stink about the Chief of Ordnance making these negotiations on his on and held up payment.
Those patents would have run out in a short time any way.
Negotiations had been through Mauser's U S representatives.

The Spitzer bullet design was an entirely different matter.
DWM did file suit but the First World War started before the case went to court. The U S government then seized the patent and refused to pay a German firm while we were at war with Germany.

Actually DWM did not have a strong case because American long range target shooters had been using similar spire point bullets since around 1870.
Also an American officer had made similar bullets for experimentation, possibly before DWM received their patents.

Regardless the courts decided that seizing the patent was not legal and in 1928 awarded DWM back pay and interest for use of the design up till the time the patent protection ceased.

I never heard of the British having to pay DWM royalties for the MkVII bullet or the "Swift" bullet before it.
A British publication of the era quotes one of those involved in designing the MkVII bullet as bringing up the use of spirepoint bullets by U S marksmen at target matches in England around 1870 as proof that DWM had no real right to claim the design.

[UBER7MM]

Mulitgunner,

Thanks for the clarification. Great History lession!

[303Guy]

The 7mm 174 gr FMJ was accurate and had greater penetration on obstacles, but was so stable bullets that didn't hit bone passed straight through with little disruption of tissue.That makes a lot of sense. It was the MkVII 174gr 303 spitzer that in the endeavour to lengthen the bullet for stability and range, created the meanest bullet of its day. The penetration of the 174gr 7mm bullet is legendary. As I've said, it's reported to fully penetrate and exit an elephants head, exiting at the hump. By comparison, the 215gr 303 RN could reach the brain but not exit the skull.

While the 174gr 7mm soft nose bullet would no doubt have good penetration and killing power in larger game, a 140gr bullet would be right up there with velocity and range.

P.S. Multigunner, your research and knowledge is greatly appreciated, thank you. :drinks:

[Hang Fire]

I though it was the stripper clip that the US had to pay pattend royalties on.

'
They also had to pay Mauser for the action design (too close to the 98) until we entered WWI.

http://militaryhistory.about.com/od/smallarms/p/m1903sprfld.htm

Though the M1903 was a composite consisting of the best elements from several prior weapons, it remained similar enough to the Mauser that the US Government was forced to pay royalties to Mauserwerke.

[FAsmus]

Gentlemen;

Here is a thread I got started awhile back about my M1908 for your consideration;

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?99979-The-1908-Bazilian-M98-Mauser

Good morning,
Forrest