9 point vs subsonic cast lead powder coated hollow point

[gds]

I have been trying to get this buck all season after I missed him with my bow. The Land I hunt will be completely clear cut by next week so this may be my last chance to harvest a deer on it. Well this evening was the time. got in the blind late but he came in right at dark. With just enough light to see him I put a round right thru him. he was quartering toward me and the bullet enter just behind the shoulder and exited at the last rib on the other side.

Let me also state that there is nothing like hearing the bullet impact the deer. Thank you Governor McCrory and General Assembly. He bucked a little and took off but hit the ground in less than 30 yds. with a blood trail that a blind man could follow.

300 blk
247gr Cast from wheel weights
Powder coated Harbor Freight black
hollow pointed 1/8 inch diameter 3/4 inch deep
5.56 Blank converted to 300 blk
4.9gr RED DOT powder
980 fps

http://i82.photobucket.com/albums/j243/gdsjr/hunting/1121132322_zps1a934862.jpg

Remington AAC model 7
Form 1 titanium suppressor.

My testing of this round indicated that the hollow point would expand and break off from the base of the bullet which would then cause the remainder of the bullet to tumble. My results on this deer seemed to mimic what I found in testing

http://i82.photobucket.com/albums/j243/gdsjr/hunting/1121131944_zpsd484a077.jpg

entrance
http://i82.photobucket.com/albums/j243/gdsjr/hunting/1121132011_zps9bf3ad3d.jpg
http://i82.photobucket.com/albums/j243/gdsjr/hunting/1121132157b_zpsfb7a5e18.jpg

Exit
http://i82.photobucket.com/albums/j243/gdsjr/hunting/1121132014_zps67e7e07c.jpg
http://i82.photobucket.com/albums/j243/gdsjr/hunting/1121132158_zps57ec8872.jpg

Lung I did not get as good of a picture of this as I would like but just to the right of my thumb is where it impacted
http://i82.photobucket.com/albums/j243/gdsjr/hunting/1121132152b_zps06ab9670.jpg

Liver. I cannot be sure if this damage was because of the base or the tip breaking off, but my was it severe.
http://i82.photobucket.com/albums/j243/gdsjr/hunting/1121132152c_zps6cca914a.jpg

After having a bit of a rough hunting season. I am happy with my results

[Hamish]

Congrats and thanks for the documentation! Nothing like closing the deal, especially when you've had previous contact.

[gds]

50 yds. i have never shot a deer past that. Simply because that has been the distance when they either give me a clear shot or just simply the area i hunt does not allow for any shots longer in distance.

[xacex]

Nice, another P/C cast boolit kill! Looks fine for 50 yards.

[Socal147]

I am a teanlant to SoCal from Michigan. Sure do miss hunting and fishing ....... Grats!

[NVScouter]

Looks good! Grats

[wvmedic]

Congratulations, thanks for the pictures and explaining the event.

[DanWalker]

50 yds. i have never shot a deer past that. Simply because that has been the distance when they either give me a clear shot or just simply the area i hunt does not allow for any shots longer in distance. Congrats on a great buck. Would love to hear more about that homemade can. I'm waiting on my form 1's to come back so I can build a couple.


I will let you in on a secret. I live and hunt in Wyoming, and it's as wide open as it gets when it comes to hunting. 90 percent of stuff here gets shot at 150 yards or less. The jerks shooting stuff at 6 and 7 hundred yards are just showing off fancy toys and stoking their own egos. Also, after having grown up in gunshops and listening to the BS stories, I automatically subtract 40% from any yardage figure a long range "hunter" gives in his story. Aint much on this planet you can't get within 400 yards of, even wearing bright orange.

[gds]

Considering FPS loss; What do you think the effective range of this cartridge is for deer hunting?

That is kind of subjective. I have tested these down to 800 fps and gotten almost the same results. by most ballistic tables that give you over 400 yds before the velocity drops below that. the problem of course becomes bullet drop. Because at that same distance the drop is over 270 inches. Me personally would not try past 100 to 150 yds

[gds]

Congrats on a great buck. Would love to hear more about that homemade can. I'm waiting on my form 1's to come back so I can build a couple.


I will let you in on a secret. I live and hunt in Wyoming, and it's as wide open as it gets when it comes to hunting. 90 percent of stuff here gets shot at 150 yards or less. The jerks shooting stuff at 6 and 7 hundred yards are just showing off fancy toys and stoking their own egos. Also, after having grown up in gunshops and listening to the BS stories, I automatically subtract 40% from any yardage figure a long range "hunter" gives in his story. Aint much on this planet you can't get within 400 yards of, even wearing bright orange.

Nothing special. i had the help of a good machinist friend who was patient with me. has a 3 1/2 to 4 inch blast chamber and a 6 inch baffle stack of simple K baffles made from brass. the tube and end caps as well as the initial blast baffle are Titanium.

I am the same way when guys make claims of long shots. I have asked guys to give me range estimation on distances that I knew the range and they have almost always over estimated the distance by a long shot.

[alrighty]

Congrats and thanks for the pics.

[helice]

It is wonderful to get these pictures. There is so much I can learn here and there is so much B.S. about energy necessary to take down game. Great buck - Great control and a great hunt. And horns make the skinning more fun.

[Win94ae]

Congratulations! Good to know! Thanks!

[gds]

Thanks Guys. this is number 10 i have Harvested with subsonic 300 blk. Speeds ranged from 850 to 1000 fps. non expanding and expanding. This bullet has become my new favorite.

the fact is you simply do not have to have a 300 super duper magnum going Mach 4, lighting your hair on fire, dislocating your shoulder, being heard 2 counties over, turning a 1/4 of the deer into a fine red mist, just to shoot a deer at 50 yds.

[Three44s]

By golly,

I think the Gubmint is on to something: Lead is DANGEROUS!!!

Judging from all the critters that have fallen on hard times when crossing the path of the silver stream!!!

To the OP:

Congrats on another "lead" kill!!

Way to go!!!

Three 44s

[357maximum]

SA-WEET....not sure that's what they meant by "canned" venison though. :mrgreen:

[Hamish]

The shooting world is rediscovering what the archery world started to forget about back in the '80's. A heavy projectile at moderate speed will outperform a superlight projectile at high velocity time after time, across most any situation.

Thankfully, lead casters have kept the knowledge alive through the Dark Age of Jacketed,,,,,

[gds]

SA-WEET....not sure that's what they meant by "canned" venison though. :mrgreen:

LOL no probably not. But it sure makes it fun.

[gds]

By golly,

I think the Gubmint is on to something: Lead is DANGEROUS!!!

Judging from all the critters that have fallen on hard times when crossing the path of the silver stream!!!

To the OP:

Congrats on another "lead" kill!!

Way to go!!!

Three 44s

Lol

Yeah it is for the "fauns"

[gds]

The shooting world is rediscovering what the archery world started to forget about back in the '80's. A heavy projectile at moderate speed will outperform a superlight projectile at high velocity time after time, across most any situation.

Thankfully, lead casters have kept the knowledge alive through the Dark Age of Jacketed,,,,,

It took me a lot of searching before I could find info on sub hunting. Every time the question was asked. the responses were all, "can't be done""unethical""stupid" and such things. but when I inquired as to why, i was never given an answer that satisfied me. So I began my own "scientific" research. thankfully there was some 300 whisper guys who had posted some stuff. After my research, I just could not see why it could not be done. So I did it. And it has worked very well. I did lose one using a 300 blk, but sad to say it was my own fault. While i was not using this boolit. if I would have put the shot in the right place I would have recovered her.

I have still been called unethical for hunting with non expanding subs. but it has worked when I did my part like any other hunter cartridge combo. I took 2 last year with the NOE boolit, not modified, and while it did take them down i was not completely happy with the impact in the deer. Now I will state again that this boolit is my go to for subsonic hunting period. And a whole lot cheaper than those expensive low velocity expeanding jacketed or brass bullets

[taco650]

Congrats on a nice buck! Thx for showing the autopsy pics as well.

As far as the ethics of hunting subsonic, I really don't see a performance difference between your load for the 300BO and a 44Special loaded with a 240swc at 800-950fps. Sure, its quieter (and that's not a problem for me) but does anyone think the deer will know the difference? The only true difference is the person pulling the trigger. If they're judgment, knowledge and skills are lacking then there will be problems.

[gds]

Went out yesterday morning and took video of the blood trail. no I am not a professional camera man;)

http://i82.photobucket.com/albums/j243/gdsjr/hunting/th_9pointbloodtrail_zpsfcab276b.jpg (http://i82.photobucket.com/albums/j243/gdsjr/hunting/9pointbloodtrail_zpsfcab276b.mp4)

[hicard]

I assume those are maggots?

[gds]

I assume those are maggots?

No that would be corn. It is not illegal to bait Deer with Corn in North Carolina.

[taco650]

I assume those are maggots?

I thought the same thing until I watched the video. It's easier to see in the video.

[gds]

You know i kind of feel silly. i looked at the pic again and yeah they kind of do look like maggots don't they:oops:

[redneckdan]

In your experience, how far do the deer usually travel after a good heart/lung hit with a heavy sub sonic 30 cal? How far do you usually find first sign of blood trail from the position of the deer at impact?

[freebullet]

Contrasts!!! That's a nice deer, & a heck of a setup. No ear plugs required, eh? Most times I've hit the liver they died where they stood. Good job!

[gds]

In your experience, how far do the deer usually travel after a good heart/lung hit with a heavy sub sonic 30 cal? How far do you usually find first sign of blood trail from the position of the deer at impact?

With a Good lung or liver shot I have never had a deer travel more than 50 yds before they were permanently on the ground. Before using the 300 blk I used a .308 winchester. And the same thing here. When hit in the lungs and/or liver they were on the ground in less than 50 yds.

As far as blood trail that has varied. Not including neck shots or spine shots. The ones only shot in the lungs or liver, I have had an immediate blood trail to no blood trail. It all seems to depend on what the round does on entrance and exit.

I have used
178gr AMAX. Before the above buck this was my best blood trail. immediate blood splatter and then a decent volume of spray. The 6 point was on the ground in less than 30 yds. Now This one could be a little biased because it was after a fresh snow. But also the bullet tumbled some and i think this helped

200gr low velocity prototype expanding bullet. A jacketed lead core deep hollow point. somewhat similar to outlaw state bullets, if you are familiar with them. The 3 i shot thru the lungs with this were close together in blood trail. blood at impact site and then some small droplets for about 10 to 20 yards then a relatively easy blood trail, till on the ground between 30-40 yds. I did have one of these I hit in the shoulders and she tried to walk, but laid down 3 times before ending up in a thicket.

The NOE Cast 247 unmodified. the first one i shot with this i found zero blood trail, but she was on the ground in less then 25 yds. Just a few tiny specks at the impact site. The other one, a 6 point was DRT. After i shot I thought he had ran because the smoke from the shot blurred everything for a second. imagine my surprise when I got out of the blind and there he was right where I had shot him.

The above 9 point is without a doubt the most blood trail I have seen hitting them in the lungs/liver area.

[djc]

What did you use to hollow point your bullets?

Thanks

[gds]

What did you use to hollow point your bullets?

Thanks

No problem. I use the forster hollow point jig.
http://www.midwayusa.com/product/371968/forster-universal-hollow-pointer-1-8

it is designed to be used on a loaded round.
the supplied bit is ok and can be used in a forster trimmer as well as an old pacific trimmer that I have. It may work in others. But the bit is shorter than i like for the deep hollow point. So I clamp the round in a set of soft jaws in my drill press and use a 1/8 drill bit to get the depth i want. the trick is you have to go very slow and use lots of lubricant.

[OBXPilgrim]

Nice job.
Just heard the other day that cans were legal to hunt with in NC. Hadn't read it the regs yet.

[-Mischief]

Ahhh...I hate NY state laws!! I want a suppressor! :(

[gds]

Nice job.
Just heard the other day that cans were legal to hunt with in NC. Hadn't read it the regs yet.

You won't read it in the regs. The booklet was printed before the General Assembly passed and before Governor McCrory signed it.

the Last time i checked the this was the only thing listed on the web site

http://www.ncwildlife.org/News/NewsArticle/tabid/416/indexId/9208/Default.aspx

[GREENCOUNTYPETE]

while not exactly cast I am using factory foster slugs from a 12 ga 1600fps where i hunted opening weekend , i shot a spike double lung hit 15 minutes into the season lots of blood and lung matter in the logging road i shot it in , decent blood trail , followed it nearly 150 yards to the deer , he just didn't seem to know he was dead till he ran dry.

I have a cousin who shoots the fancy sabots at 2 dollars a shell his deer are not dropping any faster than my deer with plain old slugs

and I was always impressed by the stopping powder of my muzzle loader that i shoot my own cast from

If your getting 30-50 yards for a deer I think you can definitely justify ethical

I would like to thank all of you for your research , I have a load for my 30-30 that my 10 year old son really likes to shoot it is going 14-1500fps , I was worried it wasn't fast enough , with all of this sub sonic and other posts with 300 blk-out at 1500 , 30-06 at 1800 but a more than hundred yard shot , I now feel much more confident that a 170 gr flat nose if well placed even at 14-1500 fps will take a doe reasonably at 50 yards which is where i feel his shooting ability limits him to.
and at about 7 cents each for my cost he can shoot lots of them at the range for practice

this week is muzzle loader season and i am going out friday i hope , but next week we are in a rifle doe only season and i am talking the boy out

[gds]

Pete.

We are really doing what was done for many a year before high velocity jacket soft points became the new "ethical" way of harvesting deer. If you want to build some confidence in the round you are using. Stack a bunch of wet newspapers, phone books or the like about 20 inches, at least, deep. or about 6 - 8 gallon jugs in a line. It is not "scientific" however it is a cheap alternative, that gives you an idea, of what the bullet may do.

[Smoke4320]

Just to add to GDS's comments .. I just killed a 6 point with a 300 blkout and 159Gr FP lead cast
65 yds approx. and he ran a whole 35 yds and piled up .. you can look at pics on the "4 firsts" posts in this forum.. It has sure changed my mind on what I will carry if I have a 100yd or less shot
and yes we are really going back to what was the turn of the century loads/velocities before all the magazines and bullet makers pushed max speed/ more costly whizz bang projectiles

[TheGrimReaper]

Awsomeness, I love the pics!!!

[missionary5155]

Greetings and Congradulations !
Excellent in all aspects !
What is your barrel twist ? I ask due to being a 300 BLK shooter also. I bought the 247 mold and look forward to working it next time up north.
Have you tried 50-50 mix ? At those slow velocities I wonder what base pressure is ? Certainly cannot be much at all.
I do know 50-50 out of my SKS (155 grains at 1550) does not break up in water jugs.
Range lead (mine) at about 1000 fps in my 44WCF turns inside but does not break off.
But that broke off nose does give a secondary projectile inside the cavity causing havock.
This is very informative and I have much enjoyed the read and excellent photos !
Mike in Peru

[Magana559]

First of all Congratulations!
second of all, thank you for the internals photos. I always like to see real world ballistics and would channels.

[Slow Elk 45/70]

Very interesting thread, and pictures. Thank you.

[gds]

Greetings and Congradulations !
Excellent in all aspects !
What is your barrel twist ? I ask due to being a 300 BLK shooter also. I bought the 247 mold and look forward to working it next time up north.
Have you tried 50-50 mix ? At those slow velocities I wonder what base pressure is ? Certainly cannot be much at all.
I do know 50-50 out of my SKS (155 grains at 1550) does not break up in water jugs.
Range lead (mine) at about 1000 fps in my 44WCF turns inside but does not break off.
But that broke off nose does give a secondary projectile inside the cavity causing havock.
This is very informative and I have much enjoyed the read and excellent photos !
Mike in Peru

The AAC model 7 is a 1 in 7 twist. However I have also shot it in 1 in 10, and 1 in 8.5. good accuracy. However loading it in a .308 winchester behind some red dot powder gives me a 3 shot 1 hole group. It also has a 1 in 10 twist.

I have pretty much stuck with straight wheel weights. I have used some softer lead, but at sub velocities I simply get little to no disruption in the boolit. Hollow pointing it makes all the difference. My son took a Doe earlier this season with the 155 loaded in my .308 winchester. pushing 2200fps blew the biggest exit wound i have ever seen in a white tail deer. Testing it in water jugs and wet paper. i got really good mushrooming. I need to run some test as slower velocities to see how low I can go to get a good msuhroom.

[gds]

First of all Congratulations!
second of all, thank you for the internals photos. I always like to see real world ballistics and would channels.

I also enjoy seeing actual damage. I think ballistic gel gives a good idea, as well as the other cheaper methods of water jugs or stacked wet paper. But none of these truly can tell you the results until a living breathing thing is shot with them. Even I have been surprised by some of my results. Sometimes the bullet seems to perform better in my testing then it does on game and sometimes it performs better on game then it did in my testing.