RCBS Bench Primer Pocket Swaging Tool

[Guardian]

I've had my RCBS bench primer pocket swaging tool since early this year. I've run several thousand cases through it, but don't have an exact count. My best guess is 6k to 7k.

Stock Photo
88248

I bought this after bending the support rod on the RCBS press mounted swaging tool. I needed something to get me back up and running, the craze had hit, and Graf's had this in stock. I took a gamble with it as there weren't any reviews when I got it. It works, but I've had some issues with it.

First, the handle isn't long enough on it, in my opinion. The foam padding on the handle seems like a great idea, until you get to operating it quickly and wear a blister on your hand. My fix for that was adding a piece of tubing over the existing handle, extending it to approximately 1-ft. It seems to work.

There wasn't any lubrication on the rotating assembly and the contact surfaces were a bit rough. Some sandpaper solved the latter problem and axle grease had it rotating smoothly. Both further reduced operation effort.

Lately, I've been having to tighten the nut on the top of the rotating assembly. RCBS uses a nylock nut, but the bolt is too short the fully engage the nylon portion of the nut. Also there is no washer under the nut to separate the nut from the rotating force. The end result is the nut works loose. I solved this with a metal locking nut and a longer bolt.

When I disassembled the rotating assembly, I found this:

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=88244&d=1385090844

My increased handle length may have accelerated the wear, but I was surprised RCBS hadn't used a specific bolt with a shoulder long enough to support the entire rotating assembly. Who puts rotating parts on threads? I bought a 2-1/2-in long 3/8 bolt to get sufficient shoulder length and added a nylon washer, thinking it would separate the rotating force from the nut. It required a metal flat washer on top of the nylon washer to mostly accomplish the separation of forces and the metal locking nut is tight enough to withstand what rotating forces remain. I cut off the excess length of the bolt.

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=88245&d=1385090845

Last night, the bushing broke that goes between the swaging anvil and the housing.

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=88246&d=1385090847

The bushing backed out toward the handle and lost the confrontation with the clevis on the rotating assembly. It seems the part should have a flange on it to prevent it from moving towards the rotating assembly. I contacted RCBS through their form on their webpage (phone call got stuck in an endless loop of "press 2 for customer service"). They replied that a replacement bushing is on its way. That was nice.

The RCBS is not swaging the primer pockets uniformly. It consistently makes a more prominent roll on the right side of the primer pocket, when viewed from the handle end of the unit. I haven't been able to determine the exact cause of this, and it may be alleviated with the new bushing. I can't get a good photo of it, but it's obvious looking at in person. I thought it was due to the case not being aligned with the anvil when the anvil first contacts the case, but slowing down and making sure the case is aligned didn't solve the problem. I believe this is only a cosmetic issue, as the primers seat fine in the cases.

All of this has me wondering how the Dillon Super Swage 600 compares, so I ordered one today. I realize they can and have had issues, too; however, I'd like to find out for myself which is better for my operation. I already know the answer is "a Dillon 1050", but I can't afford or justify it right now. I'll update this post after I've had some time with the Dillon SS600 to compare the two.

[VHoward]

I'm interested to find out. Subscribed. I've been using the RCBS primer pocket swager II. It is press mounted and is a bit awkward to me. Haven't bent anything though.

[Lee S. Forsberg]

I've used RCBS press mounted swaging tool for a long time. Then I ran into some cases with thick heads and bent the rod. Had to replace it with a 1/4x28 bolt with the head cut off and turned down foe 22 caliber. Works fine.

[gwpercle]

I tried swaging , several different tools, always had some kind of issue. I know it is slow, but the method I keep going back to is a simple hand held cutting tool, I sit in an easy chair with two containers and ream/cut the crimps out and use a primer pocket uniformer hand tool to finish up. Both hand held tools are from Lyman. Cutting them out seems the only way to get them. Before using the hand tool I cut most of the crimp away with the small blade of my pocket knife, then use the reamer and then finish with the uniforming tool. I know it is slow but it does work best.
Gary

[Guardian]

The press mounted tool works fine for small batches (i.e., 100 or so), but I rarely do a batch of 223 or 308 that less than 500 cases. Most of the time it's 1000 or more. I realize it's a one time operation, but I'm buying new brass constantly. I love to shoot, but I enjoy reloading even more. I don't shoot enough to feed my reloading habit with brass, so I just buy more. Time is also in short supply, so speed is necessary to accomplish anything. The right tool all depends on your particular situation. As mentioned above, I know the right answer for me is a Dillon 1050, but its just out of reach right now. Maybe one day.

[DaveInFloweryBranchGA]

I have never tried the RCBS tool you have, but I do own the Dillon swager similar to yours. I bought mine used at a good price with an extra option or two. When I received it, I do what I always do to any tool with moving parts I own: I took it apart, cleaned it, inspected it, tuned it (polished moving part contacts, etc), put it back together, lubed and carefully adjusted it until I was satisfied it was performing as best as it could.

When I put the Dillon into service, I first swaged some 3000 5.56MM milsurp brass. The swager did great, held it's adjustment and flawlessly swaged every case without issue. During the process, I mounted it to a 2X6 board and had two plastic bins, one for input and one for output, on either side of the swager. Using the described setup, I gained speed and efficiency. I eventually added the string/rubber band mods you can find on the net for the Dillon, but found for me they distracted me more than helped me and removed the strings/rubber bands.

I have been very happy with my Dillon swager, especially having tried multiple single stage press mounted swagers and various reamers without the speed and success I hoped for.

Related to your swager, I see a couple things I would change were I you. One is the operating handle. I would not be satisfied with a two piece handle long term and I would replace it. While doing this, I would try to find a handle that was more ergonomic based on how that handle operates. Another is that failed bushing. It is a cast part from RCBS. I would have a machinist make me a brass bushing to replace it and cut a groove in the housing to put a c-clip to hold the bushing in place so it would not move and break again.

By the time you do the things I suggested, you'd probably be out less money to simply buy the Dillon.

[Guardian]

Dave,

I understand the sentiment on the two piece handle. It was a quick fix, but isn't as flimsy as it may appear. I used tool box drawer liner material to wrap around the original handle until the tubing had to be forced over the original handle. The second piece isn't coming off without persuasion.

Can you expound on the more ergonomic handle thought?

The side swinging handle isn't particularly comfortable to use and is another reason I purchased the Dillon. It works, but it isn't a motion typical to reloading. Some might like it because of that.

Good idea on the bushing, but I agree it isn't worth the expenditure. I may try a flanged bushing from the hardware store, if I can find one that is close in size.

[DaveInFloweryBranchGA]

Guardian,


Can you expound on the more ergonomic handle thought? Sure, drill a hole vertically through the handle you have now fairly near the end. File or machine (if you have a mill handy) a flat on either side of the new hole to mount nuts. Go to a tool store or hardware store and buy a roller handle that mounts with a nut. I found a lot of these around back when I was making an adjustable handle for my Harbor Freight band saw. Install the roller handle and use nuts on both sides of your original handle to insure the "roller" part of the handle is totally independent of your original handle. Not perfect, but better than having a straight handle. Another idea would be to have the end of the handle threaded and mount a ball to it. But again, costs vs. a new Dillon that is a better design. (The RCBS came later and I think they made it like it is to avoid Dillon patents.)

The side swinging handle isn't particularly comfortable to use and is another reason I purchased the Dillon. It works, but it isn't a motion typical to reloading. Some might like it because of that. It had just came out when I bought the Dillon I have. The reason the Dillon got the nod was the unnatural motion of the RCBS handle. Just isn't ergonomic.

Good idea on the bushing, but I agree it isn't worth the expenditure. I may try a flanged bushing from the hardware store, if I can find one that is close in size.

[Guardian]

Thanks, Dave.

Either the Dillon or the RCBS will be moving on to another owner, at some point. The Dillon will have to have some serious flaws to be the one sent on its way. I tried to like the RCBS. It does work. It may suit a lower volume shooter very well, but the cheaper press mounted kit will do that too. A truck should be dropping off the Dillon Wednesday and I expect to be putting it through its paces Thursday and Friday while at the in-laws. Gotta have something to do......

[Mike Kerr]

Very, very interesting thread.

[Guardian]

Let me preface this by saying I am not a Dillon fanboy. I like good tools and don't mind spending money on them, but I don't want to waste money either. I'm defining waste as money spent on features that I don't use or for a name with no added features.

The Dillon SS600 is a great tool. For those who have voiced a concern over patent infringement, the look may be similar; however, the function is not. The SS600 handle is approximately 8-in long and requires less effort than the RCBS with my extended handle to accomplish similar results. I can't say they are exactly the same results, since I'm basing it off visual indicators. I think I'm actually swaging more with the SS600.

The first thing that I noticed was the difference in size of the two units. The SS600 is much larger.

The SS600 uses a much longer swaging anvil, which rides in a much longer bore within the frame. The result is minimum axial movement of the anvil, relative to the RCBS. The press mounted swagers have even less, but sacrifice speed.

The SS600 does require mounting over the edge of the bench to allow full stroke, but this isn't an issue for me.

I was a bit surprised that Dillon didn't include mounting hardware. RCBS included socket head bolts to mount theirs to the RCBS plate.

The SS600 uses an adjustable block under the case to align the cases with the anvil. RCBS has an adjustment on the case holder to accomplish the same thing. Both work when properly adjusted, but they are completely different approaches. I'd call setup of either a tie.

Changing primer size is easier on the RCBS. The SS600 requires disassembly of the entire unit. It isn't difficult, but it does take longer.

Processing speed seems higher with the SS600. I was using a makeshift setup at the in-laws', but was still able to work faster than with the RCBS at home. I was using the SS600 as delivered, no modifications. I don't have any hard numbers for comparison. Even a timed test would be a bit subjective, as the results would likely differ if someone performed it.

Effort and motion are the advantages of the SS600. I'm surprised at the difference. As the title says, the RCBS will be moving on.

Pics to follow.

[DaveInFloweryBranchGA]

Guardian,

I'm not surprised at your reaction to the Dillon. I'm not a Dillon fanboy either and generally prefer RCBS presses. But I've realized in my old age and with my experience with Lee that ALL companies make certain products that are exceptional at what they do. When it comes to swaging, the Dillon is hard to beat.

About mounting: I would not mount the Dillon to my bench. Instead, I would screw it to a 2X6 board about two feet long at an angle (think on this and you'll figure out the angle) and place an "in" and an "out" brass bin at each side where convenient. This ergonomic change makes your throughput quite a bit faster than otherwise.

To get a bit more speed, depending: There are also some mods posted on the internet, including videos, on how you can use string or rubber bands to operate the Dillon faster. I personally didn't like the strings/rubber bands, but I've got OCD about such things and couldn't tolerate the look of the string. It may be a non-issue for you. In which case, if you've got a small ton of brass to swage, it'll help.

[Guardian]

Dave,

Thanks a lot for the suggestion to mount the Dillon at an angle. It works very well with that arrangement.

Here is a photo of the two units side by side:

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=89663&d=1386293171

You don't get an idea of the size difference by looking at each manufacturer's photos.

After using the Dillon a few days, I can see another benefit of the RCBS design. The side swinging handle doesn't get in the way of removing the brass from the support rod. The stroke of the RCBS operating handle is considerably less than the Dillon. I don't have a protractor to measure the difference exactly, but the difference is at least 20 degrees. The eccentric on the RCBS unit must be steeper to reduce the stroke length, thus causing the increase in effort.

My Dad was at the house last night so I got him to use both. He was also amazed at the difference in effort between the units. He believed my claim, but was surprised to find that I wasn't exaggerating the difference. The Dillon requires less force to do a deeper swage. To do what appears to be the same amount of swaging, the Dillon requires no force, just move the handle.

The only change I plan on making to the Dillon is replacing the ball on the handle. While adequate, I prefer the diameter of a pool ball to fill the palm of my hand and reduce the perceived load on my hand. I don't have a tap big enough for the threads, currently. I'll remedy that over the weekend.

[DaveInFloweryBranchGA]

Guardian,

Wow, that is a pretty big difference in size.

Yes, the handle of the Dillon gets in the way of removing the brass, making timing and angle of use more important. Hence part of the reason for the angle, to help timing, hand placement and brass WHIP (work in progress).

I would swage with my right hand, lower handle, flip case up to remove at the same time with my left hand and remove the case with my right hand and toss into the "out" bin. Meanwhile, my left hand picked up and placed a new case from the "in" bin to swage and lowered the next case as I moved my right back onto the swager handle. Then repeat. I hope that explanation makes sense.

My hands, which are average to slightly large, are okay with the stock ball handle but if they were bigger, I'd go with a pool ball as you're doing. Great idea.

I like your benchtop. I had a "apartment use" stainless steel cart that I used the same oak plywood to improve it's appearance. I don't miss it's size, but I miss the appearance. Looked real sharp.

What's the motorcycle in the backgroun?

BTW, did you get the RCBS repaired and how did you end up repairing the bushing? Bring it back to stock or modify for a more permanent fix? I'm betting return to stock for an easier sell.

[cheese1566]

how much for the RCBS unit ?

Pm sent to you if it's for sale....

[Guardian]

Dave,

Your description of the process is very similar to what I was doing. Left hand grabs another piece of brass while the right hand is working the handle, then the rest is the same. I've got a 2.5 gallon bucket on a stool at my left hip to get the proper height on the bucket for me. Right hand drops the swaged brass off the right side of the bench into another 2.5 gallon bucket.

Thanks for the compliment. Apparently I failed to upload a final pic of the bench to the sticky. I'll have to fix that. Here's a better pic of the bench.

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=89705&d=1386346752

The bike you saw above is a 99 Honda Valkyrie, my pride and joy.

I just used the replacement bushing from RCBS. There's too many other issues to spend the time and money on a new bushing.

[waco]

The Dillon Super Swage 600 is the only way to go. I love mine. And like any Dillon product, you know the back it for life! No questions asked.