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JessFV
11-21-2013, 05:15 PM
My first attempts with the thinner-powder coat-wet tumble did not work very well. I purchased four colors from Powder by the pound, red, grey, white, and green. The red mixed with the thinner and bullets made a solution that looked ok but was kind of blotchy. I could tell this process if very sensitive to when you need to stop tumbling the bullets and move them to the tray to "wet out" and dry. It took me several tries before it worked at all.
I then tried the dark grey and white powders, both turned to a thick goo that separated from the solvent and coated the bullets with a very thick layer of powder "paste" no matter what the powder-solvent ratio was.

These two colors (grey and white) seemed to be very attracted to the bullets so I decided to see what happened if I tumbled the bullets in dry powder, same process as the wet method just without the solvents.
It worked great!
I put a table spoon of powder in a Tupperware container, added about 50 bullets (30 cal x 200g) tumbled them around a little until they had a even coat of dry powder then plucked them out with needle nose pliers and set them base down on not stick foil for baking in my new $20 toaster oven. Any excess powder remains in the tub, and can be re-used. No critical mix ratio or wasted powder!
The only trick is the powder will rub off if you try to handle the bullets with you fingers while moving them from the tub to the tray.

I also tried dumping the dry tumbled bullets directly onto a wire tray (gutter screen from hardware store) and that worked but the bullets show spots where they contacted the screen and some stuck together, I think this would happen with any method where the bullets were dumped randomly.
This seems like a method that could take the prize least equipment (no PC gun required), lowest stink factor (no solvent) and ease of use.
Give it a try and let me know if you have similar results.

Beagle333
11-21-2013, 08:38 PM
Got any pictures? :grin:

bangerjim
11-21-2013, 09:17 PM
Well, your boolits will have to pretty good to come close to the perfect, smooth, even-coated, repeatable gun-coated slugs everyone on here is getting every single time!

I have tried the dry method several times and the tedious and time-consuming delicate transfer from the container to the baking sheet discouraged me from that meothod. Every slug had uncoated spots where the tool/finger/wire I used to pick them up slightly touched the lead.

Please post some pix.

But the powder was engineered to be applied with electrostatic dispersion/adhesion, so any other method is questionable in my book. The HF PC gun is not that expensive and works perfect every time.

Post some pix so we can see. Thanks!

banger

JessFV
11-23-2013, 08:32 PM
I will take some photos and try to post them in the next day or two, I did a second batch yesterday and they came out looking good but I don't have anything to compare to except my prior poor results. I'm wondering if there is some static charge created by the plastic tub that makes the powder attract to the metal?

nighthunter
11-24-2013, 09:50 PM
I have been dry coating my bullets for several weeks. I place 3 or 4 pounds of bullets in a plastic container, add a teaspoon of powder and screw on the lid. Then I shake and roll the container for 3 or 4 minutes. I then remove the lid and check the coating on the bullets. If necessary I add a small amount more powder and shake it some more. The powder seems to become embedded in the lead and does not come off on my fingers when lightly handled. I dump them on my screen baking trays and any excess powder falls through the screen to be put back for the next batch. I have found that lighter coats work better than heavier coats and if necessary I just do a second coat. After a few attempts you will be very able to judge how much coating is right. I have found this method to be far easier than trying to mix the powder into a liquid. Even when doing cast hollow points the cavity remains open after bakeing. This is what made me try the dry coating. The HP's were coming out of the oven all plugged up from an excess of powder in the cavities. I very much prefer this method. Give it a try before passing judgement.

Nighthunter

JessFV
11-27-2013, 12:16 AM
Here are some photos of how I did it with the dry tumble method.
I think the photos are self explanatory but basically dump bullets and dry powder in a tub, roll and toss around for a bit , pull out with tweezers or needle nose pliers, lay out on tray then bake.
The tricky part on these was standing the 230 g boat tails up on end and making it into the oven, but that has nothing to do with the process.
Sorry I could not figure out how to post the photos in order.

xacex
11-27-2013, 02:10 AM
Not bad! Those look like they will work just fine. I like that you mixed the H/F colors to get another one. It is nice to see what colors we can make from the limited choices there, but I like the powder because it works, and is less than 6$ a pound.

JessFV
11-27-2013, 04:00 PM
Actually I'm using the Powder by the pound products and have not tried mixing colors, the color in the photo is one of the dark greys. The three colors I have tried all work the same dry, this was not true wet.

dverna
11-27-2013, 07:29 PM
I for one do not care if the coating is less than perfect if it works. Fast and easy is huge plus. Not needing a spray area/booth, compressed air, foils etc is a bonus. I can also see being able to get more bullets on a tray as with ES spraying some space is needed to get even coverage.

But it boils down to "Will they shoot?". Looking forward to your range report.

Don Verna

manithree
11-27-2013, 07:33 PM
My son and I thought we invented this method back in October, but I see we weren't the only ones to come up with it.

We put boolits and HF powder in a pill/supplement bottle and hand agitated them for about 10 minutes. Putting the bottle in the vibratory brass tumbler works well, too. I found that it takes 10 minutes to get the powder to adhere to the boolits.

They're not perfect, but for plinking, practice, and this year's science project they work just fine in my CZ SP-01.

A couple of photos of what my kids call our "candy bullets:"
http://barrycenter.net/CandyBullets/Candy1.jpg
http://barrycenter.net/CandyBullets/Candy2.jpg

RP
11-28-2013, 11:48 PM
I have been looking and reading on this also and got some powder coat today. Not wanting to wait until I had more time I tried it out tonight. My colors are red and yellow so far I just used red. I have a small tumbler bowl so I put some powder in and some bullets and ran it until they had a good coat, I placed them on the tray that came with the toaster over (yard sale item) which I have tested to see if it would get hot enough. Preheated to 400 I slid the tray in and timed for 30 mins. The bullets came out OK but not perfect coat that's a nice slick even coat and some still had a tacky feeling. next batch I cooked longer and had no tacky feel but still not nice and slick or perfect even. Check temp on stove when I added third batch the bullets were dropping temp so I let it heat back up some and started my time which is about the same time the coating starts to change. This time bullets had a slicker finish with more shine but still not a perfect coat. I am saying perfect coat so people will know what to expect not that it matters to me I am so far happy with what I am getting and am still working on refining my process. I also smashed a few out of all the batches and did not have any flacking. I did notice on the first batch when I sized some of the coating was removed on a few of the bullets. The later batches I have not sized yet. Going to load some up to shoot and check for any problems there. Another thing I tried a very light coat then a second coat which I was not happy with. The red pistol bullets posted about are about what I got but my coating looks to be more even no lead showing but some spots looking on the thin side. My ? is would cooking them hotter or longer do anything ?

OBIII
12-12-2013, 03:06 PM
Try pre-heating the boolits prior to tumbling with powder. It is my understanding that warmer alloy coats more evenly.
OB

crawfobj
12-12-2013, 03:24 PM
Thanks for sharing this guys. I think this method looks very promising and much less hassle than trying to stand boolits up to spray coat.

bangerjim
12-12-2013, 05:07 PM
Thanks for sharing this guys. I think this method looks very promising and much less hassle than trying to stand boolits up to spray coat.

But spraying them looks so smooth and good!

banger

nighthunter
12-12-2013, 11:45 PM
Be careful about preheating the bullets before applying the powder. If the bullets are even just a little too warm the powder clumps on the bullets and becomes a VERY thick coat when cooking. If the bullets are agitated in a container with the powder the powder will adhere without the preheating. I think trying to do too large a batch at one time is what causes the little bald spots on the bullets where too many bullets bumped together while shaking the container. Most of my bullets come out looking pretty good and I'll try to get some photos posted.

Nighthunter

prickett
12-12-2013, 11:59 PM
I have to say that dry tumbling is perfection! By far the simplest method, with zero wasted paint, that gives a very good looking boolit. Of all the coating methods, this one wins.

RP
12-13-2013, 12:15 AM
Love to see some pics of others results I think I am being to picky.

SDGarrick
12-13-2013, 01:20 AM
Going to try this method this weekend. will post back.

Cane_man
12-13-2013, 12:45 PM
will try and post pics within a few weeks... i have the oven now, the screen, and white PC

popper
12-13-2013, 01:26 PM
Compare ES PC & dry tumble. First try with dry, done 2x for complete coat?
90403 90404
edit: Sorry bout that - red is ES & sized. White is just coated.

JessFV
12-13-2013, 04:00 PM
I have found different colors behave very differently with the wet and dry tumble methods. I don't know what causes this but some colors seem to be easier to work with. Both the grey and white worked much better then red for me.
Those long skinny Lee 230 g bullets have not shot well yet, the front driving band and bore riding area are undersize even with the powder coating buildup.

prickett
12-13-2013, 05:27 PM
Here are my pictures from a similar thread in this forum: http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?217443-New-wrinckle-to-my-easy-pc&p=2509259&viewfull=1#post2509259

prickett
12-13-2013, 05:29 PM
I have found different colors behave very differently with the wet and dry tumble methods. I don't know what causes this but some colors seem to be easier to work with. Both the grey and white worked much better then red for me.
Those long skinny Lee 230 g bullets have not shot well yet, the front driving band and bore riding area are undersize even with the powder coating buildup.

Agreed. Red HF paint works for dry coating. Black HF paint works for wet coating.

Using black HF paint was a complete failure for dry coating.

RP
12-14-2013, 02:10 AM
well if the red is the gun coated it sure looks a lot better then the white one. The white is more of what I am getting. The thing is if I use smaller bullets like 30 cals my coat is better then it is with 45 cal 405 gr. I guess I should say the lighter ones 250 and lower. I did run some today they just did not seem to coat well today with red so I tried some yellow those seemed to coat better. I would like to fine a more repeatable process. I am going to keep at it changing up things to see if I can work it out for my standards. The main ? is how much of a coat is needed and will it really matter if the coating is not even like the white one in the pic above.

Ajax
12-14-2013, 07:01 AM
Ricky,
PM freightman (Frank) he has had great success with the dry method and has shot alot of it.

Andy

blueeyephil
12-14-2013, 03:04 PM
I've been doing the wet method for awhile with good result but looking forward to trying the dry method. I cleaned out my vibrator and put a some powder and bullets. Turned it on and waited ten minutes. Didn't work at all. My powder is PBtP hot candy blue a polyester TGIG. I have some Lava Black 15-25% gloss a Urethane Polyester on order from Rosey's Powder Coating. I'll give that a try when it comes in.

freebullet
12-15-2013, 01:37 AM
I'd be real interested in how the urethane pc works. Anything I've used with urethane is tough & just plain works. Anyone tried it already?

I hope to try this dry tumble method soon.

prickett
12-16-2013, 06:26 PM
I've been doing the wet method for awhile with good result but looking forward to trying the dry method. I cleaned out my vibrator and put a some powder and bullets. Turned it on and waited ten minutes. Didn't work at all. My powder is PBtP hot candy blue a polyester TGIG. I have some Lava Black 15-25% gloss a Urethane Polyester on order from Rosey's Powder Coating. I'll give that a try when it comes in.

Don't get discouraged. Its simply a matter of finding the right paint.

Someone previously mentioned we should start a thread listing what does and doesn't work. I think we should. It'd save a bunch of time, money, aggravation.

nighthunter
12-16-2013, 08:50 PM
These are all done with the dry shake N bake method. Someone is going to tell me I have too much time on my hands but I am having a ball playing with this stuff.

Nighthunter

Gunslinger
12-19-2013, 04:32 PM
Nighthunter, how much thickness does the dry shake method apply? I assume you only apply one coat? When I acquire an oven I will start powder coating my boolits, mainly my 120gr TC Lee. They cast at .356-ish and I hope they only gain 0.002" which means i won't have to size them for use in my 0.357 9mm barrel.

popper
12-19-2013, 05:00 PM
Shot the dry (no GC) & Es (GC & no GC) coated as in post #20. Sized 0.311 for the 30/30, seated just shy of 2.50. 15 gr 2400 with the rest of the case puppy toy filler.
Really windy day but I think the dry did just as well as the ES coated, even without checks. Dry unchecked was better than 180 RD flat base.
91034
My shooting wasn't the greatest, 308 did poor @ 100 as well, 3" groups. The dry PC 30/30 did ~ 6" vertical string @ 100, mostly me.

SDGarrick
12-19-2013, 08:11 PM
Just baked my first batch. Red HF, lee 200 gr .309

a few observations -
If you touch the boolit after the powder has been applied, it will come right off, like a butterfly's wings.


My boolits stuck to the tinfoil. maybe it's the tinfoil i used.

I didn't bake them standing up, rather i just poured them onto the tray. next I will try standing them up. I might need to make a special tool for grabbing them, something like tweezers.

the coating seemed really light at first, but when the finished product came out they were totally covered, smooth and even.

400 degrees for 20 minutes.
This method seems best, because it requires the least investment and makes little mess.

SDGarrick
12-19-2013, 08:13 PM
double tap.

edited to add: alot of my boolits were ruined by either sticking to the tinfoil, which generally left patches without PC or too much PC was on the tray and it hardened around the boolit.

I've learned that Less is more and that I will have to be more deliberate with the arrangement of the PC'd boolit prior to baking. This is fun though and still quite simple. excited to see how they shoot.

popper
12-20-2013, 12:17 AM
Use the non-stick foil or cooking parchment paper. I have a steel/foil coated plate in the oven so I just picked them out of the container and set them on the plate. My tweezers are medical grade I think, really long slender fingers (general @ 40-AA). Actually, I had maybe 2 teaspoons of powder in the container for ~ 12 boolits, worked pretty good for the first try. Some didn't look very well covered but shot well anyway. Typically I have trouble if the coating is too thick, they won't chamber in the levergun, nose is too large. These all shot fine, so tumble coating doesn't get too thick. I stood them up for cooking, the bases didn't stick, no excess. It will still be hard for me to set 50 or so in the oven without the domino problem. And only one rack at a time. May be easier for the younger casters/coaters.

nighthunter
12-20-2013, 09:55 PM
Gunslinger ... measured some today. My coating is adding about .0025 to the diameter of my bullets. My thoughts on sizing are that sizing eliminates out of roundness and gives us a known value for the bullet if trying to figure things that need attention. I've never been a fan of shooting as cast bullets. You might be able to do it that way. Let us know what your results are.

Nighthunter

Liberty'sSon
12-21-2013, 02:37 AM
These are all done with the dry shake N bake method. Someone is going to tell me I have too much time on my hands but I am having a ball playing with this stuff.

Nighthunter

Nighthunter, seeing those makes me crave my favorite Jelly Belly jelly beans. Dang you now I have to go buy some. ;)

nighthunter
12-21-2013, 09:56 PM
Liberty'sson ... I've been playing with color mixing to get the bullets like that. I have found that if I get a decent coat on the bullets with one color then add just a tiny bit of another color and only shake the container 2 or 3 times the added color gives a mottled effect when baked. Sometimes I use whatever is left in the container from the previous batch for the first coat then again add a bit of another color I get a very wide variation of colors after baking. Most of the time the final result is far different than what you expect it to be. I've also taken a soda bottle cap and drilled very small holes in it then added a wire handle. I put a bit of PC in the cap and use it to sprinkle the added color over the base coat. The colors mix themselves when baking. Its a lot of fun. I'll find more ways to amuse myself with this stuff.

Nighthunter

birdadly
12-29-2013, 10:01 PM
I visited a Harbor Freight near me and wanted to mention to anyone reading this thread that their Flat Black, White and Red paints were on sale for only $4!!! For some reason the Yellow wasn't on sale. Sale good 'til the end of January.

My experience has only been with this Dry Tumbling method so far, putting a tablespoon or so of powder in a Tupperware along with 50 bullets (45's or 9's), and shaking it by hand for only a couple minutes, 2 at most. Then I wear a Latex Glove, get a little powder on the fingertips and pluck them out and onto the Non-Stick foil.

So far Red has worked great, but I tried white and yellow today and neither seemed to cover as well as the red :( But, I'll keep trying. Actually, maybe the red is just a darker color so it disguises the lead beneath it... Hmm. When I have a nice spot in the garage, and summer hits, I may try out the HF spray gun for more even coats. - Brad

Beagle333
12-29-2013, 10:12 PM
Those look pretty good, Brad. Actually, right up there among the best of the dry tumbled ones I've seen. You got it going on! If the driving bands are coated, you are good, and they look coated!

.429
12-29-2013, 10:28 PM
91958 mine look like **** and shoot even worse! i'm not sold on this tumble method

Maximumbob54
12-30-2013, 09:54 AM
91958 mine look like **** and shoot even worse! i'm not sold on this tumble method

Too much powder applied too thick. I've done the same and got the same results. If you had that amount of bullets to tumble then less than half a sugar packet worth of powder might still be too much. Remember that if you do it too thin you can always try again but too much and you have muck.

TheDoctor
12-30-2013, 02:48 PM
Made it to the range over the weekend. Wish I had better results to post, but time and conditions were limiting factors, and I left my darned chrony at home! All bullets were hand tumbled with HFPC red. Anyway, one thing I learned is that my eyes do not work quite as good at 40 as they did at 20. I have the targets, but no pics. Not really worth the time to post the pics with my results, mainly due to the "eyes". First off, fired all my rounds off a bench using my Bulls Bag. Bench not quite rock solid, but not too bad. Target from bench laser ranged at 44 yds. Odd distance. Paced it off, compared to a 50 yd rifle backstop, and I believe that it is accurate.

First gun fired was a Smith 19, 357 mag. Using Lee 158 gr TC, sized .358, 16 gr H-110. 6 inch barrel, black on black partridge sights. 10 shot group 2.15 inch. Probably about the best I can do with open sights, so I am very satisfied with this one.

Second gun fired was a Beretta 92fs. Lee 125 gr. RN. Bullets weighed 128 gr, sized .355, 6.8 gr of HS-6. Feel I might have had better results using Bullseye or Unique. 10 shot group,extreme spread of 6 inches. Horizontal stringing. Height of group was 2.25 inch, but it was WIDE! ( excuse to be used: it was the WIFES GUN, not overly fond of the sights.)

Third gun, Springfield XDm 40. Lee 175 TC, sized .400, 5.0 Bullseye. Some leading in the first 1 1/2 of barrel. 10 shot group, 6 inch vertical string. 2.5 inch wide. (excuse on this one, eyes were getting tired!)

Fourth gun, Smith 25-5. 45 Colt. Lee 200 gr RNFP, sized .452, 6.5 Gr Trailboss. 5 shot group, 5 inches. Was having a very hard time with the orange ramp sight and the sun angle.

Fifth target. Same Smith 25, Lee 255 gr RNFP, sized .452, 7 gr Bullseye. 5 shot group, 5 inches. Same sight problems. Fired the same load through a Vaquero. Group size shrunk to 3 inches. Different sights...

All in all, not satisfied with the range trip. No chrony, sun angle, was not able to recover a single bullet, and there was another group of people there that were really needing a lesson on range etiquette. And for some reason the 15-25 yard targets do not have benches.

popper
12-30-2013, 03:12 PM
Doc - @ 44yds and you are upset? What is your alloy? My XDm 40 had some streaking by the chamber but accuracy still held up good, ES coated. A kid was shooting the last maybe 50 rnds, hadn't been cleaned for a while, didn't notice it until I cleaned it.
Coated 50 31-165b this morning, coat, cook till the PC flows then coat again, cook for 1/2 hr (HF white). Got maybe 15 not so good. Some spots just won't take the powder. Seems bouncing them up & down in the powder does better than swirling them around. I was able to stand them up on NS foil in the oven - pick them up by the nose with tweezers. For testing in the 30/30 sans GC over 2400. Using filler I was beginning to get groups. If I can find an accurate load ~ 1600 fps I'll be happy. Got to JB weld some better plates to the buttstock end of the Led Sled Solo & find some silicon potting compound to make a better cradle. Hard to load test from a flimsy mount.

TheDoctor
12-30-2013, 03:26 PM
IIRC, without going and digging out the info, my alloy for the .40 was 14 lb range lead, 4 lb lino, 1/2 lb ( possibly 1 lb, been a few weeks...) foundry type, and 1/2 lb 89% tin, 9 % copper, and roughly 2% antimony solder. Was wanting to recover some of those to see how they held up, but with other people out on the range, couldn't berm dig. Brains not in high enough gear right now to tell me why I had streaking in front of the chamber, and the rest of the barrel was like a mirror. Need to get a .401 or .402 sizer...

popper
12-30-2013, 11:19 PM
My XDm will lead and have trouble chambering with 0.402, You can lap the 0.400 out but your alloy is pretty high Sb. A lower Sb alloy will size smaller through the die. Youprobably shaved one during loading or possibly BE is a tad fast ( I don't use it but WST is fast for mine). I did 2" horiz. @ 25 3 shot group, on a really good day with 5.5 of HP-38, 175 T/C - PCd. My normal load is 4.5.

TheDoctor
12-31-2013, 01:19 PM
I think you are right on the alloy, not to turn this into an alloy discussion. Checked some unsized uncoated 9mm. Should have dropped at .356, instead they were measuring .361! Wow, wasn't thinking about the tin expansion, or whatever the proper term is for it...

.429
12-31-2013, 05:11 PM
I think I'm gonna try the ascetone. Does lowes sell it?

Beagle333
12-31-2013, 06:10 PM
Lowes, WalMart, HomeDepot.....

popper
12-31-2013, 06:10 PM
Crown brand, may have more water in it, so dry longer. IMHO the dry approach works better for me, only tried white so far. 429 - the bases have to be good on that boolit to get any accuracy. Yours in the pic are globby and the wet method will probably give the same results. I need to work on it a bit bt I'm approaching good groups @ 1400 with 2400 in the 30/30, NO GC.

bangerjim
12-31-2013, 07:10 PM
Crown brand, may have more water in it, so dry longer. IMHO the dry approach works better for me, only tried white so far. 429 - the bases have to be good on that boolit to get any accuracy. Yours in the pic are globby and the wet method will probably give the same results. I need to work on it a bit bt I'm approaching good groups @ 1400 with 2400 in the 30/30, NO GC.

Acetone will not absorb water. It is a hydrocarbon-based solvent and as such, is not hygroscopic.

Acetone should be acetone....no matter what brand. Now, lacquer thinner...........that is a totally DIFFERENT story! Every brand has their own unique formulation and none are the same.


banger

earthling121757
01-01-2014, 12:17 AM
Acetone will not absorb water. It is a hydrocarbon-based solvent and as such, is not hygroscopic.

banger

Actually acetone is a ketone, not a hydrocarbon. It has a double bonded oxygen atom on the center carbon. This makes it a polar molecule which is miscible with water and it will absorb water from the air the same way pure alcohol will.

Not trying to be argumentative, just trying to set things straight. [smilie=s:

nighthunter
01-01-2014, 02:06 PM
Hmmm .... you don't need acetone to do the dry application method and that's what I thought this thread was about.

Nighthunter

Cane_man
01-01-2014, 02:20 PM
Hmmm .... you don't need acetone to do the dry application method and that's what I thought this thread was about.

Nighthunter

so all you are doing is maybe 50 bullet batches, teaspoon of powder in a container, shake it up for a few minutes, place on a wire screen, bake in the oven for the required temp and time? repeat for a second coat as necessary?

btw, all powder paints is excellent... fast shipping, good prices, and for $3 more you get a resealable plastic container

bangerjim
01-01-2014, 03:25 PM
Actually acetone is a ketone, not a hydrocarbon. It has a double bonded oxygen atom on the center carbon. This makes it a polar molecule which is miscible with water and it will absorb water from the air the same way pure alcohol will.

Not trying to be argumentative, just trying to set things straight. [smilie=s:

Well I have used perhaps 100 gallons of acetone in my career and never had ANY water problems! I guess I don't live in a swamp. Humidity down there is extremely low.

I use methanol to dry things out after cleaning with water-based solvents. It DOES absorb water readily.

If one is worried about water in the acetone, keep the darned cap on it like you should.

Thanks for the info.

banger

prickett
01-01-2014, 07:26 PM
so all you are doing is maybe 50 bullet batches, teaspoon of powder in a container, shake it up for a few minutes, place on a wire screen, bake in the oven for the required temp and time? repeat for a second coat as necessary?

btw, all powder paints is excellent... fast shipping, good prices, and for $3 more you get a resealable plastic container

I do 100 at a time with 1/2 tsp of powder (am probably going to up it to 1 tsp). Tumble in an old rotary tumbler (though doing this by hand works just as well), dump on wire screen and cook. I do one coat for .45 acp. Am currently determining whether to do one or two coats for 9mm.

nighthunter
01-02-2014, 12:39 AM
One coat pretty much does it for me. I have done second coats a few times when I wasn't quite satisfied with the first result but has only been a few coats at the beginning of the learning process. After you do a few batches you will know when you open your container if the bullets have enough powder on them. If not just add a little bit more and shake-n-bake. I did up almost 3000 30 caliber today in a little over 3 hours. All of them came out very nice with just one coat. Don't pee and moan if your first ones don't come out perfect. You aren't going to believe how easy this process is once you get going.
If you order from all powder paint get the reusable container for $3. It's well worth it.

Nighthunter

prickett
01-02-2014, 10:25 AM
I do 100 at a time with 1/2 tsp of powder (am probably going to up it to 1 tsp). Tumble in an old rotary tumbler (though doing this by hand works just as well), dump on wire screen and cook. I do one coat for .45 acp. Am currently determining whether to do one or two coats for 9mm.

Upped the amount of powder from 1/2 tsp per 100 .45 to 1 tsp per 100 and got better results - almost ES quality.

Next experiment is to see if there is such a thing as TOO much powder in the tumbler.

Beagle333
01-02-2014, 10:49 AM
Throw up some pictures. This is encouraging. :-D It's foggy/misty outside today and I can't spray.

Cane_man
01-02-2014, 11:09 AM
here is my first try at shake-n-bake, three coats, boolits on the right are gloss clear coat, 10mm 200gr:

http://i913.photobucket.com/albums/ac331/johnelway/powder-coat1004_zpsca068ef3.jpg

just have to shoot them now to see if there is any leaeding and what the accuracy is like... but overall it was a very easy process... i was a little concerned about getting too much powder on each coat, but next time i think i would add more powder when i put them in the vibratory tumbler...

jmort
01-02-2014, 11:40 AM
It will be nice if the dry PC works. Those bullets look real good.

bangerjim
01-02-2014, 01:36 PM
here is my first try at shake-n-bake, three coats, boolits on the right are gloss clear coat, 10mm 200gr:

http://i913.photobucket.com/albums/ac331/johnelway/powder-coat1004_zpsca068ef3.jpg

just have to shoot them now to see if there is any leaeding and what the accuracy is like... but overall it was a very easy process... i was a little concerned about getting too much powder on each coat, but next time i think i would add more powder when i put them in the vibratory tumbler...

They (the orange ones) look smoother than any I have ever seen using this method.

But.....................please calculate the TIME it takes to accomplish this! 3 coats + 3 bakes + time to spread them out B4 each bake + pick them up after each bake.......sounds like a LOT of time wasted just to avoid spending ~$60 (-25%) on a cool tool to spray it on beautifully in ONE coat and one bake.

And that gun can be used to coat a bunch of other stuff around the house and shop! It is definitely worth the very small monetary investment as a permanent shop tool....not something just to "mess around" with boolits with. (Use that one with the wife.......it DOES work!!!!!!) Ha.....ha!

Thanks a bunch for posting the pix. I have tried several test runs with varying amounts of powder on batches of ~100 boolits and every time they ended back in the melting pot due to inferior coverage and looks. (NOT black)

The big concern I have is the uneven coatings will cause unbalanced boolits that lead to inaccuracies at the range. A cast boolit is pretty much a balanced geometric shape and if you unbalance it in weight and/or aerodynamics, you could be rather disappointed with the results at the target. The ES gun has faithfully provided me with a perfect even coat on each projectile every time I have used it (now going on 60 times for 300-550 boolits each time). And I have not experienced any error deviations in groupings.

But whatever your choice in powder coatings...........have fun!!!!!!!!!!!!!

banger

prickett
01-02-2014, 01:53 PM
But.....................please calculate the TIME it takes to accomplish this! 3 coats + 3 bakes + time to spread them out B4 each bake + pick them up after each bake.......sounds like a LOT of time wasted just to avoid spending ~$60 (-25%) on a cool tool to spray it on beautifully in ONE coat and one bake.

The big concern I have is the uneven coatings will cause unbalanced boolits that lead to inaccuracies at the range.


Time spent:
Counting 100 boolits to place in tumbler: 1 minute (would be the same for ES)
Pouring in 1 tsp of powder: 3 seconds
Tumbling: N/A - I tumble in a rotary tumbler for 10 minutes, but since I'm not involved in any work, I don't count this time (I suspect this time could at least be cut in half, just haven't tried it yet)
Dumping boolits onto a screen from tumbler: 10 seconds
Cooking: N/A - Again, I'm not working, the oven is. (would be the same for ES)
Removing from oven: 10 seconds (would be the same for ES)
Sizing: maybe 13 minutes per hundred (would be the same for ES)

So, 14 minutes 13 seconds for 100 boolits ready to load. Doing ES would take that same amount of time + whatever time is spent spraying. Don't know if you leave the spray gun loaded or if you have to load/unload it - if so, that would add to the time.

I don't know of anyone doing three coats of dry coat. Most don't even do two.

Regarding the "inaccuracy" I've not found my dry coats to be any better or worse than regular lead, so that seems moot. It might make a difference for Bullseye shooters - it MIGHT.

Cane_man
01-02-2014, 02:32 PM
They (the orange ones) look smoother than any I have ever seen using this method.

But.....................please calculate the TIME it takes to accomplish this! 3 coats + 3 bakes + time to spread them out B4 each bake + pick them up after each bake.......sounds like a LOT of time wasted just to avoid spending ~$60 (-25%) on a cool tool to spray it on beautifully in ONE coat and one bake.

And that gun can be used to coat a bunch of other stuff around the house and shop! It is definitely worth the very small monetary investment as a permanent shop tool....not something just to "mess around" with boolits with. (Use that one with the wife.......it DOES work!!!!!!) Ha.....ha!

Thanks a bunch for posting the pix. I have tried several test runs with varying amounts of powder on batches of ~100 boolits and every time they ended back in the melting pot due to inferior coverage and looks. (NOT black)

The big concern I have is the uneven coatings will cause unbalanced boolits that lead to inaccuracies at the range. A cast boolit is pretty much a balanced geometric shape and if you unbalance it in weight and/or aerodynamics, you could be rather disappointed with the results at the target. The ES gun has faithfully provided me with a perfect even coat on each projectile every time I have used it (now going on 60 times for 300-550 boolits each time). And I have not experienced any error deviations in groupings.

But whatever your choice in powder coatings...........have fun!!!!!!!!!!!!!

banger

shake-n-bake is KISS, i like it... :)

bmiller
01-02-2014, 03:44 PM
here is my first try at shake-n-bake, three coats, boolits on the right are gloss clear coat, 10mm 200gr:

http://i913.photobucket.com/albums/ac331/johnelway/powder-coat1004_zpsca068ef3.jpg

just have to shoot them now to see if there is any leaeding and what the accuracy is like... but overall it was a very easy process... i was a little concerned about getting too much powder on each coat, but next time i think i would add more powder when i put them in the vibratory tumbler...

Wow, nice results! I have not had results this good. What brand of powder did you use?

jmort
01-02-2014, 04:55 PM
Every time there is evolution the users of other methods get exorcised. Say something about Hi Tek and "Katie Bar the Door."This would be my method of choice if it works as well as it seems to. Everyone wants to think their method is the best, but there will always be change and evolution. If I can avoid a compressor/regulator/PC gun and over spray, count me in. Sold all my tractors, so I just sold my compressor as I only used it for an impact wrench. Sold the IR impact wrench as well and got an electric one that does what I need. I agree that time wise, there will little time difference, and for sure less contraptions. Whatever floats your boat. This is good news. Also want to know what powder was used by Cane Man

bangerjim
01-02-2014, 05:37 PM
Time spent:
Counting 100 boolits to place in tumbler: 1 minute (would be the same for ES)
Pouring in 1 tsp of powder: 3 seconds
Tumbling: N/A - I tumble in a rotary tumbler for 10 minutes, but since I'm not involved in any work, I don't count this time (I suspect this time could at least be cut in half, just haven't tried it yet)
Dumping boolits onto a screen from tumbler: 10 seconds
Cooking: N/A - Again, I'm not working, the oven is. (would be the same for ES)
Removing from oven: 10 seconds (would be the same for ES)
Sizing: maybe 13 minutes per hundred (would be the same for ES)

So, 14 minutes 13 seconds for 100 boolits ready to load. Doing ES would take that same amount of time + whatever time is spent spraying. Don't know if you leave the spray gun loaded or if you have to load/unload it - if so, that would add to the time.

I don't know of anyone doing three coats of dry coat. Most don't even do two.

Regarding the "inaccuracy" I've not found my dry coats to be any better or worse than regular lead, so that seems moot. It might make a difference for Bullseye shooters - it MIGHT.

Well.............. the top line of your post (above the picture) says "here is my first try at shake-n-bake, three coats, boolits on the right are gloss clear coat, 10mm 200gr:.

Sounds like 3 to me! I was just going by your own statement. That equals ~15 minutes x 3 coats = 45 minutes for 100 boolits. Waaaaaaay too much time for me!!!!!

Sorry, but I was just reading what you wrote..................... and commented on it.

Use whatever the heck method you want. I will always use ES gun.


banger

jmort
01-02-2014, 05:48 PM
"Well.............. the top line of your post (above the picture) says "here is my first try at shake-n-bake, three coats, boolits on the right are gloss clear coat, 10mm 200gr"

I believe that is cane_man's post, not prickett's. He was calculating his all-in time I believe not cane_man's

Cane_man
01-02-2014, 07:32 PM
Wow, nice results! I have not had results this good. What brand of powder did you use?

the picture makes them look a little better than they really are, the flash kind of made it a little fuzzy and blended in the finish... i am using powder from allpowderpaints.com

this is the link for the paint i used: http://www.shop.allpowderpaints.com/BRIGHT-RED-ORANGE-BRIGHT-RED-ORANGE.htm

Cane_man
01-02-2014, 07:36 PM
Every time there is evolution the users of other methods get exorcised. Say something about Hi Tek and "Katie Bar the Door."This would be my method of choice if it works as well as it seems to. Everyone wants to think their method is the best, but there will always be change and evolution. If I can avoid a compressor/regulator/PC gun and over spray, count me in. Sold all my tractors, so I just sold my compressor as I only used it for an impact wrench. Sold the IR impact wrench as well and got an electric one that does what I need. I agree that time wise, there will little time difference, and for sure less contraptions. Whatever floats your boat. This is good news. Also want to know what powder was used by Cane Man

exactly

prickett
01-03-2014, 09:32 AM
Here are mine, coated with HF paint. The ones on the left are two coats - first with red, then with yellow. The ones on the right are one coat of red.

I normally only one coat, but bought some yellow just to play around with. The two coats look rough as compared to the ones on the right. I'd lowered the temp as an experiment, so the roughness could be due to that. I'll try again back at my usual temp to see if that is the cause of the coarseness.

92481

popper
01-03-2014, 10:54 AM
Bangerjim - If one is worried about water in the acetone, keep the darned cap on it like you should. That does help but acetone will absorb water easily. Brake (and hydraulic fluid) is worse and the flash temp is reduced ~40% with as little as 10% H2O in it. Fairchild found that out the hard way, lost 2 planes from wheel well fires. I found out about the brake fluid in a ~20K mi auto - lost brakes going around a blind curve (engineer pass) 400' drop to the river on one side, mountain on the other side. Just let the boolits dry longer.

Boogieman
01-03-2014, 10:24 PM
I've been trying the shake & bake system using HF red. tried 2 coats first, it worked but wasn't real smooth. They shot good with No leading in standard 38 spc. or 45 acp loads 9.5 Bhn. Coated some 45's with 1 coat, they were much smoother haven't shot any of them yet. the first batch was coated in a peanut butter jar. my vibrating case cleaner didn't work for me. I built a hand cranked tumbler using a plastic jar & a scrap wood frame ( think bingo ball scrambler) 5-6 min. slow turning gives boolits a good coating. Bake 20 min. at 400F AFTER the powder melts. They not win the best looking bullit award but they work & it's cheep & easy.

prickett
01-04-2014, 01:34 AM
I've been trying the shake & bake system using HF red. tried 2 coats first, it worked but wasn't real smooth. They shot good with No leading in standard 38 spc. or 45 acp loads 9.5 Bhn. Coated some 45's with 1 coat, they were much smoother haven't shot any of them yet. the first batch was coated in a peanut butter jar. my vibrating case cleaner didn't work for me. I built a hand cranked tumbler using a plastic jar & a scrap wood frame ( think bingo ball scrambler) 5-6 min. slow turning gives boolits a good coating. Bake 20 min. at 400F AFTER the powder melts. They not win the best looking bullit award but they work & it's cheep & easy.

Make sure that its really at 400F (check with an oven thermometer). I cooked a batch at less than 400F and they weren't smooth (see my picture a couple posts up). But cooking at 400F (or more) results in a smooth coating for me. Also, make sure you have enough paint. I use 2 tsp per 100 .45 boolits - up from 1 tsp previously - and am getting smoother coats.

Boogieman
01-04-2014, 01:22 PM
Make sure that its really at 400F (check with an oven thermometer). I cooked a batch at less than 400F and they weren't smooth (see my picture a couple posts up). But cooking at 400F (or more) results in a smooth coating for me. Also, make sure you have enough paint. I use 2 tsp per 100 .45 boolits - up from 1 tsp previously - and am getting smoother coats.
Are you preheating the boolits before coating them? I did 1 batch warmed & 1 batch COLD it was 36F in my shop when I started, it worked fine both ways. I preheat the oven to 400F . Does going over 400F Or longer than 20 min. hurt anything? I'm going to load & shoot the one coat the 45's (230 gr. Lyman RN) today. If they don't lead I'll be happy. They are so clean to size & load no grease on the bases or the seating die. My 1911 Colt takes 2 patches to clean after 50 rounds.

prickett
01-04-2014, 02:29 PM
No, not preheating. Like you, I found no difference between the two methods.

Not sure about going over 400 or longer than 20 minutes. I don't notice any problems with either. I do both and don't SEEM to have any problems.

.45's are the perfect round to start with. You should have no problem with single coating them. I'm heading out into the snow in a couple hours to see if 2 coats work on my 9mm. My previous one coat test failed (could have been due to the lead not age hardened yet, though)

Boogieman
01-04-2014, 08:41 PM
just finished short (20 round) test ,45acp. 230 lyman RN 1coat HF red . test ended due to darkness & cold. minor leading I may have over crimped , was using lee FC die ,the case mouth bell was bumping going into it. changed to a regular taper crimp die, will test again tomorrow. I have some 158gr. Lyman SWC with 2 coats of HF red going to load in 357mag. they always lead a little with standard lubs .They crono. 1250 fps out of a 4" Ruger should be a good test.

prickett
01-05-2014, 12:17 AM
I'm heading out into the snow in a couple hours to see if 2 coats work on my 9mm. My previous one coat test failed (could have been due to the lead not age hardened yet, though)

Back from the test. A double coat resulted in zero leading on 9mm.

jmort
01-05-2014, 12:21 AM
That is what we wanted to hear.

Boogieman
01-05-2014, 12:59 AM
[Q. May haveUOTE=prickett;2560094]Back from the test. A double coat resulted in zero leading on 9mm.[/QUOTE]

Good news I plan to try some twice coated 357's Sunday if it stops raining. May have to recoat the 45''s I may not have used enough powder for 1 coat

Boogieman
01-05-2014, 09:32 PM
Rain stopped, it turned to snow .temp. in low 20's & wind shot 25 rounds of 1coat 45acp no leading over crimp must have been the problem. coated some more with a little more powder they came out of the oven smooth as any I've seen thanks for the help I'm going to try some in the mags. 357,41,&44. The empties from the autos keep freezing to the ground. I'm ready for some global warming.

Maximumbob54
01-06-2014, 09:38 AM
I find it odd that all the dry tumble in HF red that I did never would get the smooth gloss coating that they should and yet so far every single one of my ES coated with HR red look like shiny candy. I didn't change a thing to the oven and still cook them for the same amount of time. But I had to coat mine at least twice to not fail and three times if I wanted to be sure they wouldn't fail and also look good. And yet I can ES coat and bake once and they are good. I don't get it.

freebullet
01-06-2014, 12:25 PM
First attempt

92831

freebullet
01-06-2014, 12:33 PM
I sprayed the boolits with homemade case lube because they required to much force to go through the push through prior to coating. The case lube is one bottle of alcohol with a teaspoon of melted lanolin and 3-4 drops of olive oil mixed and shaken well. The boolits were coated once baked once. Very bright light shows the coating isn't as even as it appears under normal lighting. I'm excited to load and shoot some of these. Its an easy process.

92833

I tumbled them by hand in an ice cream bucket for about 5 min. With a tablespoon of hf red. I did two batches of 100+ for repeatability testing. Baked at 400 for 20-30 min. Seems they loose a hint of shine if they bake longer than 25 min.

They were sized .356 before coating and measure .358-.359 after. I did find one at .360

res45
01-07-2014, 08:33 AM
Made my first attempt at PC coating bullet a few weeks ago using the TL method. I preheated about 25 bullets warm to the touch but not hot before placing them in a small container and adding about 1/2 tsp. of OD green powder a friend pick up from a friend that runs a PC coating shop he deals with at work.

Tumbled the bullets for a few minutes until they were coated to my satisfaction and using tweezers picked them up by the nose and placed them on a cooking sheet covered in foil and sprayed with a light coat of silicone. Baked the bullets at 400 degrees for 15 Min. and let cool then sized them to .359"

Bullet passed the hammer smash test with no problems. Last weekend I load up the lot with 12.5 grs. of 2400 and shot them in my Ruger BH and Taurus 357 mag. Both bores were nice and clean after shooting the loads with only a few kernels of powder residue present and at 7 to 10 yds. 2" groups or smaller were fairly easy. A friend who normally has leading issues with that load and bullet also shot the same loads and had no leading issues at all.

http://i1333.photobucket.com/albums/w633/res45/100_1532_zps553a83fe.jpg

Cane_man
01-07-2014, 11:35 AM
^^^ those look fantastic!!!

i will take 2" groups free hand at 10 yards any day :Fire:

but you forgot to buy your compressor and ES gun!?! j/k :)

res45
01-07-2014, 03:33 PM
^^^ those look fantastic!!!

i will take 2" groups free hand at 10 yards any day :Fire:

but you forgot to buy your compressor and ES gun!?! j/k :)

Got the gun last weekend when HF had a 25% off coupon already had the compressor. It's just to cold and nasty out to use the equipment,but it will eventually happen.

Maximumbob54
01-07-2014, 03:51 PM
That's the same mold that is giving me good accuracy results. Nothing else is close so far. Both PC and epoxy coating.

prickett
01-07-2014, 08:49 PM
Got the gun last weekend when HF had a 25% off coupon already had the compressor. It's just to cold and nasty out to use the equipment,but it will eventually happen.

Let us know your impressions of the ES technique vs. the dry tumble method. I'd be curious to hear from someone who has tried both successfully which is least time intensive.

You might also want to experiment with just dumping the coated boolits onto a mesh rack for cooking rather than spending the time to pick them up with tweezers. It doesn't seem to make any difference to my eye, but does save a bunch of time.

crawfobj
01-07-2014, 11:22 PM
I dump mine into a mesh strainer, then carefully pour them onto my pan for baking. I'm amazed at how well the tumbled powder stays on the boolits before baking. Tweezers would drive me insane.

Not the smoothest finish, but it is very fast to hand tumble in a 1lb plastic folgers can and bake. I have the ES gun but haven't had a chance to try it yet. These were all poured and baked in an afternoon:

http://img.tapatalk.com/d/14/01/08/atesy9at.jpg

casca
01-07-2014, 11:38 PM
I have been tinkering with this since before June, THE DRY COAT OR AS I LIKE to also call it SHAKE N BAKEis by far the best method as far as time is involved. SPRAY is by far prettier .. BUT I wanna shoot em not pass em out to the lady friends.

shot some through the HANDI RIFLE 308 Winchester had some leading at the crown. anyone local to KANKAKEE, IL need 3 pounds of HF powder coating to start with and experiment. giving up on the HF coating sticking with PBTP coating Gold is great

crawfobj
01-08-2014, 12:04 AM
Allpowderpaints.com has a Teflon impregnated black that sounds promising to me. Anyone tried it yet?

bangerjim
01-08-2014, 12:04 AM
Let us know your impressions of the ES technique vs. the dry tumble method. I'd be curious to hear from someone who has tried both successfully which is least time intensive.

You might also want to experiment with just dumping the coated boolits onto a mesh rack for cooking rather than spending the time to pick them up with tweezers. It doesn't seem to make any difference to my eye, but does save a bunch of time.

I have posted previously SEVERAL TIMES that I have tried liquid, dry, and ES methods extensively.

The ES method is by far, the fastest, most repeatable, and best looking of them. I can spray (ONE TIME) and bake (ONE TIME) about 3-450 boolits a hour, depending on cal. With mutiple racks, I can be baking one batch while setting another batch up and spaying those. Pretty much a production line. 10 minutes @ 400F is all that is needed for a perfect bake using the HF powders.

Each and every boolit is perfectly coated with a uniform smooth coat....unlike the other methods that leave clumps, lay marks, globs, and a general VERY messy looking finish.

NOTE: the PC finish is just not cosmetic. Uneven sloppy lumpy coats lead to unbalanced wobbling loads which lead to inaccurate disappointing performing shots at the range! Coater beware!!!!!!!! This is definitely more than "lipstick on a pig", or paint, so to speak. It is part of an engineered system to allow the boolit to pass easily down the barrel leaving no lead and fly straight down the range and hit the target where you want it.

And if you have to do 2-3 coat/bake cycles for each boolit as many say they do, that is just a big waste of valuable time to arrive at an inferior product.

Do what you want. The monetary investment for ES is not that great, seeing the excellent and accurate results it yields. After all, that is the method the stuff was designed for! Pretty much everybody already has some kind of air compressor. If they don't, they REALLY need one for all kinds of other stuff around the home and place. Can you say "pneumatic tools"???????? I have over 18 different ones. And 5 compressors.

You wanted to know........there you have it. Just the bare facts.

bangerjim

crawfobj
01-08-2014, 12:35 AM
I hear ya Jim. That's next on the list when I have time. What you see above is my first foray into PC. I need to get some trays made up for ES and get my gun rigged up. I can totally see how it can be done efficiently.

I will likely continue using the tumbling method for handgun plinking boolits.

Someone out there could make some $ with a conveyor oven and a little tinkering to mass produce coated boolits.

Beagle333
01-08-2014, 12:43 AM
No matter how I coat em, the oven is definitely my limiting factor. This weekend, we went out for pizza and while we were sitting there eating, I noticed they had four ( f o u r ) big, beautiful, convection pizza ovens mounted in the wall :shock: and several times my wife noticed and finally asked why I kept staring at those ovens during the entire meal. [smilie=1:

prickett
01-08-2014, 12:50 AM
I have posted previously SEVERAL TIMES that I have tried liquid, dry, and ES methods extensively.

The ES method is by far, the fastest, most repeatable, and best looking of them. I can spray (ONE TIME) and bake (ONE TIME) about 3-450 boolits a hour, depending on cal. With mutiple racks, I can be baking one batch while setting another batch up and spaying those. Pretty much a production line. 10 minutes @ 400F is all that is needed for a perfect bake using the HF powders.

Each and every boolit is perfectly coated with a uniform smooth coat....unlike the other methods that leave clumps, lay marks, globs, and a general VERY messy looking finish.


I know you have. And you've repeatedly said you've gotten very poor results with dry tumble and/or its too time consuming. My results (and those of almost everyone else who has tried it) are the exact opposite. The amount of time I actually am doing work is almost nill. My tumbler does the coating, not me. This is why I asked for res45's results - to get another's results. With regards to the coat, mine are not clumped or globbed - it is quite smooth (not perfect like ES, but much better than is required). I'm not entering them into a beauty pageant (where they'd still finish second or third) - I'm shooting them in LARGE volumes. Any inaccuracy from my dry coating was not evident when compared with Klass Kote, my traditional cast lead + lube, commercial cast lead + lube, Piglet coated, or HI-TEK coated boolits. In fact, it tied with Klass Kote as the most accurate.

ES is the one coating technique I've not tried yet. I'm all about finding the quickest/easiest coating technique, so if ES is it, I'd be happy to switch. But, I don't see how hand spraying 100 boolits meticulously set upright on a metallic grid is faster/easier than dumping a handful of boolits into a tumbler, adding 2 tsp of paint and turning it on.

Boogieman
01-08-2014, 01:32 AM
I know you have. And you've repeatedly said you've gotten very poor results with dry tumble and/or its too time consuming. My results (and those of almost everyone else who has tried it) are the exact opposite. The amount of time I actually am doing work is almost nill. My tumbler does the coating, not me. This is why I asked for res45's results - to get another's results. With regards to the coat, mine are not clumped or globbed - it is quite smooth (not perfect like ES, but much better than is required). I'm not entering them into a beauty pageant (where they'd still finish second or third) - I'm shooting them in LARGE volumes. Any inaccuracy from my dry coating was not evident when compared with Klass Kote, my traditional cast lead + lube, commercial cast lead + lube, or HI-TEK coated boolits. In fact, it tied with Klass Kote as the most accurate.

ES is the one coating technique I've not tried yet. I'm all about finding the quickest/easiest coating technique, so if ES is it, I'd be happy to switch. But, I don't see how hand spraying 100 boolits meticulously set upright on a metallic grid is faster/easier than dumping a handful of boolits into a tumbler, adding 2 tsp of paint and turning it on.
just shot some tumbled 45's Lee 200gr. SWC . 1 coat HF red 6shot group 50ft standing 11/2" center to center out of a 1991A1 Colt. equals the best this gun has ever done .I don't think ES will do any better.

Solus
01-08-2014, 02:46 AM
wow thanks for the posts I think Ill try this again

Mike Hughes
01-08-2014, 09:02 AM
I have tried all of the different methods and I prefer Freightmans dry tumble method. Freightman was the pioneer to the dry tumble. He started with the basic hand tumbling in a plastic container, then later started using a vibratory tumbler (which is the method I use) These are HF red and HF mix colors with red and yellow92954

Cane_man
01-08-2014, 11:37 AM
^^^ that looks good, how many coats did you use?

and you actually did this without a compressor and ES gun?!?! :kidding:

popper
01-08-2014, 11:48 AM
Dry tumble in a plastic tub worked well for the 30/30, no leading @ 1400, sans GC. Now that cabin fever time is over and I can load in the garage, going to try for faster with 2400. I'll stick to the ESPC for 308.

Mike Hughes
01-08-2014, 12:58 PM
^^^ that looks good, how many coats did you use?

and you actually did this without a compressor and ES gun?!?! :kidding:
I am doing 2 coats. The prep time is so fast and easy, the extra coat is not bad. I just put about 100-150 boolits in my tumbler, sprinkle on a tbsp or two, turn on for 30 seconds, sprinkle another tbsp and run another 30 seconds, pour boolits onto screen material, cook for 20 min @ 400 degrees, water drop and repeat. I can do a thousand boolits in a couple of hours, without getting in any hurry.
My first order from allpowderpaints just came in. Got her some pink, also some blue and zombie killin bright green. With this method, you use such little powder, helped justify paying more for the powder. My 3 pound order was $42 with shipping and I have not figured it up, but each pound should coat 3 or 4 thousand boolits

flyingrhino
01-08-2014, 01:40 PM
Seems to me there are two schools here. The one's that are looking for "commercial grade" looks and those that are looking to get away from dirty, smokey lube and still have a lead free bbl. I am currently doing the wet tumble method with HF and acetone and I get excellent results. I do have to do 2 coats which is a drawback if you are looking for production line quantities. I have found that standing them neatly looks no different than dumping them on the tray. So, I dump them on the tray. I cast, cool, coat and bake then size and load.

I'm going to try the dry tumble method next with HF red. I tried HF black with poor results. Powder just didn't seem to stick to the bullet. If I can do one coat dry and get the same results as 2 coats wet then I'm gonna call it a success. I know people are getting very pretty bullets with the ES method but it just takes too much powder and I DON'T feel like standing all my bullets up like good little soldiers. If they shoot the same then it's good with me. BUT...all of this experimenting is fun and I enjoy this thread!

Big thing we need....people comparing results of like methods with different powders. Polymer powders and epoxy powders give very different results and the method of application needs to match the powder.

Maximumbob54
01-08-2014, 02:46 PM
I never did try this with the tumbler. I did try a small plastic bin that on its side would fit in the tumbler. I added some bullets and just a bit of power (since not many bullets) and set it in place and went away for five minutes. I came back to near zero powder stuck on bullets but there was a blackish powder in with the red. I don't know if the tumbler ate up the lead some and that was lead dust or what. And yet those same bullets once rinsed off in alcohol worked just fine shaken by hand.

If you do use the tumbler does it have to be full of bullets? Did my eight or ten just get beat up?

Cane_man
01-08-2014, 03:57 PM
i just get a small plastic container with a lid, put 50 bullets in it and a teaspoon or 2 of powder, put inside the vibratory tumbler, start shaking and turnoff in 5'... the plastic container is about 3" diameter and barely fits between the center threaded rod and the mouth of the tumbler but it fits perfect without moving around much at all

Maximumbob54
01-08-2014, 04:16 PM
What I used was a lunch meat plastic container. It looks about like one of the Gladware type containers. It only fits in on its side. I thought maybe residue from the tumbler got in but the lid was still sealed tight. Not sure what it was besides lead. I could try it again and take a pic.

prickett
01-08-2014, 05:40 PM
What I used was a lunch meat plastic container. It looks about like one of the Gladware type containers. It only fits in on its side. I thought maybe residue from the tumbler got in but the lid was still sealed tight. Not sure what it was besides lead. I could try it again and take a pic.

Did you use the same container on the tumbler as you used by hand? If not, could you try that?

Did you handle the boolits (other than just picking them up to place in the container) resulting in finger oils getting on the lead?

Were they unusually cold? (don't know if that would make a difference or not)

I recently had an unusual situation. I've now dry tumbled enough boolits to completely fill 2 3 lb coffee cans and am starting my third. But I placed the usual amount of boolits in my tumbler with the usual amount of paint. After 10 minutes, the boolits were completely naked. I've NEVER seen that happen before. I simply ran them for 10 more minutes and this time they coated as per usual. Has me scratching my head. But, at least it had a happy ending.

I doubt that your 8 to 10 boolits are too FEW for the process to work.

prickett
01-08-2014, 05:49 PM
I'm going to try the dry tumble method next with HF red. I tried HF black with poor results. Powder just didn't seem to stick to the bullet.

Rhino,
HF red does seem to be best for dry tumble. HF Yellow seems to stick but you see lead though the paint. I'm not sure if that means its not covering (meaning possible leading) or if it means that its just not as opaque as the red (but still fully covers/protects). I have too many other experiments going on at the moment to pursue that.

I coat with red for first coat, then, if a second coat is needed, I coat with yellow. Ensures you know how many coats are on your boolits.

Don't feel bad about the failure of HF black for dry coat. I've not seen where anyone has been successful with it. But, it is the bomb for wet coat!

casca
01-08-2014, 06:41 PM
I have been shaking em in small coffee plastic can. 5 to 10 minutes works outstanding. why tie up a tumbler ? use different shaker for every different type or color.
casca

prickett
01-08-2014, 08:20 PM
I have been shaking em in small coffee plastic can. 5 to 10 minutes works outstanding. why tie up a tumbler ? use different shaker for every different type or color.
casca

In my case its a small unused rotary tumble that had been gathering dust - so its a no-brainer.

Boogieman
01-08-2014, 08:57 PM
I've been follow ing this thread for some time. Thanks to those who posted their results my first batch turned out good. THANK YOU everyone. It seems like HF red tumbled is the place to start. Fast cheap & easy. Some people think tumbling produces an uneven coat . ES can be uneven if not properly applied ,just because it's smooth doesn't mean it's even. the proof is in the shooting. The coating is such a small a % of the bullet weight I don't think it hurts accuracy. The grease lub. doesn't always all come out of the lub .Does that hurt PRACTICAL accuracy? I think not .MY mind is made up don't confuse me with FACTS

nighthunter
01-08-2014, 10:55 PM
I use a 16 ounce plastic container with a screw on lid. I fill the container about half full with bullets add about a teaspoon of powder screw on the lid and shake for 30 to 40 seconds. Then I open the container to see how well they are coated. If needed I add a little more powder till I have a good coat without very much left over powder in the container. I dump them onto stainless steel window screen and get them separated from each other. When I have 2 screens filled up I cook them in my oven. I don't clean out my container between colors. I get some very nice results.

BangerJim has been hammering this thread since it got started. From the pic he posted he ain't doing it right. My results please me. They are my bullets Jim. 9300493005 I think they are nice. I can supply more pics if Jim wants them. No globs, no runs and no bald spots.

Nighthunter

Maximumbob54
01-09-2014, 08:14 AM
I tried this again last night with some bullets rattling around in the same container and not a spec of the black dust appeared this time. Go figure. I have no idea what I did that last time. It does seem to be a bit of magic trying to get the right amount of bullets to powder. I guess I had way too much powder this time. I won't bother to bake these because they would come out terrible.

prickett
01-09-2014, 09:54 AM
I tried this again last night with some bullets rattling around in the same container and not a spec of the black dust appeared this time. Go figure. I have no idea what I did that last time. It does seem to be a bit of magic trying to get the right amount of bullets to powder. I guess I had way too much powder this time. I won't bother to bake these because they would come out terrible.

Originally I used 1 tsp per 100 .45 boolits. I've upped that to 2 tsp to get better coverage.

I'm wondering if the amount of paint is more dependent on the size of the container than the amount of boolits present. What I mean is, a large amount of powder in a small container may not allow the powder to "fluff up" when tumbled (i.e. clumping). The same amount of powder (and boolits) in a larger container would allow the powder to "fluff up".

How much powder are you using, how many boolits, and how big of tumbling container?

jmort
01-09-2014, 10:29 AM
A few variables to work out for sure. Makes sense that container size might affect amount of powder necessary to properly coat.

garym1a2
01-09-2014, 01:25 PM
I put a batch of 9mm bullets in a flat baking pan and added some Blue powder from Powder by pound and shaked it for a couple minutes, the powder completly covered the bullets including the bases. I dumped them onto a wire screen and saved the extra powder. They seemed to bake very well and only a few spots did not cover where the wire met the bullet. I coat a second time and they are very good. Hope to shoot them this weekend.

freebullet
01-09-2014, 07:34 PM
Yesterday I shot a small test batch of the ones I posted on page 5. They functioned perfect with no lead or pc left in the bbl. I couldn't be more excited about the results. Mine are quite evenly coated, the only areas with any imperfetions were from picking them up before baking. Next I will try rolling them out on nonstick foil to avoid handling them.

I did have to seat mine substantialy shorter than tumble lube using the same boolit. With tumble lube the xd would reliably cram them in the throat. With pc they won't feed unless just off the throat. Tumble lube I loaded them at 1.150" with 1.131" putting them on the throat. With pc they can't be over 1.025" for feeding, 1.031" on throat.

93056

popper
01-09-2014, 09:30 PM
Truncated cone is a tad better on feeding but still has to stay away from the throat or get leading from shaving (XDm).

legend 550
01-10-2014, 12:18 AM
I tried the tumble method today a I am pleased with the result. I do have a HF gun but you need to control the dust and over spray. Tumbling is so clean compared to ES coating I don't even want to try the gun. Tumbled 50 at a time, stood them up with hemostats on metal window screen and baked at 400 for 20 min. DuPont Kart green aka Arctic cat green. should make good Zombie killers:Fire: 93075

Beagle333
01-10-2014, 01:28 AM
That is a nice color of green. I like em! :-D

prickett
01-10-2014, 10:37 AM
I tried the tumble method today a I am pleased with the result. I do have a HF gun but you need to control the dust and over spray. Tumbling is so clean compared to ES coating I don't even want to try the gun. Tumbled 50 at a time, stood them up with hemostats on metal window screen and baked at 400 for 20 min. DuPont Kart green aka Arctic cat green. should make good Zombie killers:Fire: 93075

Nice work!

Now try a second batch where you don't stand them up. Just dump on a screen and cook. There is a good chance you'll just dispense with the whole standing up step - saving 5-10 minutes in the process. As soon as you remove them from the oven, shake the screen and/or split any boolits stuck together (doing this while they are still hot greatly simplifies splitting them). I've not found any significant blemishes from that method.

Where did you purchase your powder?

Cane_man
01-10-2014, 11:33 AM
I tried the tumble method today a I am pleased with the result. I do have a HF gun but you need to control the dust and over spray. Tumbling is so clean compared to ES coating I don't even want to try the gun. Tumbled 50 at a time, stood them up with hemostats on metal window screen and baked at 400 for 20 min. DuPont Kart green aka Arctic cat green. should make good Zombie killers:Fire: 93075

those look fantastic... and to think you didn't need a compressor and ES gun?!:Bright idea:

legend 550
01-10-2014, 05:59 PM
Nice work!

Now try a second batch where you don't stand them up. Just dump on a screen and cook. There is a good chance you'll just dispense with the whole standing up step - saving 5-10 minutes in the process. As soon as you remove them from the oven, shake the screen and/or split any boolits stuck together (doing this while they are still hot greatly simplifies splitting them). I've not found any significant blemishes from that method.

Where did you purchase your powder?

Prickett
That particular powder I picked up off Ebay. I have powders from Powder by the Pound, Pendry coatings, Eastwood and HF. Eastwood has a lot of chrome and candy powders that I'd like to try. I've been told if you double coat candy over chrome it looks real nice.

prickett
01-11-2014, 12:34 AM
Prickett
That particular powder I picked up off Ebay. I have powders from Powder by the Pound, Pendry coatings, Eastwood and HF. Eastwood has a lot of chrome and candy powders that I'd like to try. I've been told if you double coat candy over chrome it looks real nice.

Before long we'll get to the point where we say "screw shooting", then devote all our time to making purdy boolits!!!

oldpapps
01-11-2014, 02:32 PM
Before long we'll get to the point where we say "screw shooting", then devote all our time to making purdy boolits!!!

I'm tired, I mean retired, and have way more time to play with loading than the weather (and year old granddaughter) will allow me to shoot. It gives me something to do.
A nice looking bullet only looks good until it is shot.

Enjoy,

OSOK

Russel Nash
01-12-2014, 04:41 AM
My interest has been piqued by this thread. My HF ES gun is still in the box.

Somebody a page or two back mentioned a conveyor type oven like what pizzas are baked on. If you look on Craig's List, you can find those too. I would think that you would have to add mesh or screen to it somehow, though.

Harbor Freight does make a pneumatic paint shaker, but I would wonder if that would be to violent ???

prickett
01-12-2014, 10:24 AM
My interest has been piqued by this thread. My HF ES gun is still in the box.

Somebody a page or two back mentioned a conveyor type oven like what pizzas are baked on. If you look on Craig's List, you can find those too. I would think that you would have to add mesh or screen to it somehow, though.

Harbor Freight does make a pneumatic paint shaker, but I would wonder if that would be to violent ???

I'd opt for their rotary tumbler instead.

VHoward
01-12-2014, 01:54 PM
Let us know your impressions of the ES technique vs. the dry tumble method. I'd be curious to hear from someone who has tried both successfully which is least time intensive.

You might also want to experiment with just dumping the coated boolits onto a mesh rack for cooking rather than spending the time to pick them up with tweezers. It doesn't seem to make any difference to my eye, but does save a bunch of time.

I have done the ES method and just tried the dry tumble method. The dry tumble method took a lot less time and was easier in my opinion even using needle nose pliers to place them on my baking sheets. Defitinely a lot cleaner too.

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?226535-My-powder-coating-adventure-today

The powder I used was from pbtp named Virginia Tech Orange. It came out a darker shade than it does with the ES gun method.

jmort
01-12-2014, 02:20 PM
It seems that Dry Tumble PC ("DTPC")may end up on top over all other choices. It has so very much going for it. Simple, inexpensive, minimum of tools/equipment, "dry" and the least messy. It is KISS. If so, there will be crying and gnashing of teeth.

Russel Nash
01-12-2014, 02:25 PM
I'd opt for their rotary tumbler instead.

I don't have a rotary tumbler, but I do have a vibratory tumbler, for cleaning brass cases.

Russel Nash
01-12-2014, 02:32 PM
I have done the ES method and just tried the dry tumble method. The dry tumble method took a lot less time and was easier in my opinion even using needle nose pliers to place them on my baking sheets. Defitinely a lot cleaner too.

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?226535-My-powder-coating-adventure-today

The powder I used was from pbtp named Virginia Tech Orange. It came out a darker shade than it does with the ES gun method.

Well, I already have the ES gun.

I plan on doing something like this:

http://i603.photobucket.com/albums/tt112/gryphon1994/3E227821-588F-4C4F-8A7A-919FE05E5DEA-98-0000012F1A89428F_zps03b1abe8.jpg

The powder coat I have now I got from powder coat guy who does my target stands and AR500 stuff. I have no idea if it is TGIC or polyester or what. I have three colors: a blue, a red, and a zombie green.

jmort
01-12-2014, 02:44 PM
You have an advantage as you can fabricate nice jigs. You can also PC your targets and stands yourself now. There are people using vibratory tumblers.

Russel Nash
01-12-2014, 05:37 PM
You have an advantage as you can fabricate nice jigs. You can also PC your targets and stands yourself now. There are people using vibratory tumblers.

Yeah, I've thought about powder coating my target stands myself too. The catch is my parts are 19 to 24 inches long so I would need an old electric oven, probably off of Craig's List or "freecycle" . It would save me a trip over to Missouri too.

legend 550
01-12-2014, 08:16 PM
Just a little more eye candy. My best ones yet Tiger Drylac Bengal black 95% gloss # 49/88888 bakes at 400 for 10 min. This powder works exceptionally well for tumbling. These only had 1 coat.
93382 shake em and bake em 93383 Enjoy.

crawfobj
01-13-2014, 12:23 PM
Just a little more eye candy. My best ones yet Tiger Drylac Bengal black 95% gloss # 49/88888 bakes at 400 for 10 min. This powder works exceptionally well for tumbling. These only had 1 coat.
93382 shake em and bake em 93383 Enjoy.

Very nice! Where did you buy your powder?

jmort
01-13-2014, 12:32 PM
I believe these locations are where you can get Tiger PC

http://www.tiger-coatings.us/index.php?id=1364

Those boolits do look real good for one coat.

Cane_man
01-13-2014, 05:11 PM
It seems that Dry Tumble PC ("DTPC")may end up on top over all other choices. It has so very much going for it. Simple, inexpensive, minimum of tools/equipment, "dry" and the least messy. It is KISS. If so, there will be crying and gnashing of teeth.

you got that right! lots of ES guns on craigslist

legend 550
01-13-2014, 05:51 PM
Very nice! Where did you buy your powder?

I got that powder from Pendry coatings off Ebay. It does a real nice job with 1 coat tumble. Some powders just don't do well tumbling and I'm not quite sure why. If we could figure out how to increase the static charge in the lead and powder before tumbling maybe some of the HF powders would work better. Lead tends to take on a positive static charge while powder coat takes on a negative charge, if we could apply a negative charge to the powder before tumbling the whole proses may work even better.

kbstenberg
01-13-2014, 07:44 PM
My Harber freight powder is being delivered shortly. I have coated with Hi Tec, but not PC. If I put the bullets on a screen to bake. Will there be a problem with the coating on the base sticking to the screen? i.e. coating on the base coming off of the bullet

prickett
01-13-2014, 08:50 PM
My Harber freight powder is being delivered shortly. I have coated with Hi Tec, but not PC. If I put the bullets on a screen to bake. Will there be a problem with the coating on the base sticking to the screen? i.e. coating on the base coming off of the bullet

Not if you shake the screen immediately after pulling it out of the oven (i.e. before the coating cools and hardens). If you don't they may stick, but even having to pull them loose doesn't result in too much of a blemish.

Shaking them while hot also will help separate any boolits stuck to other boolits.

Wrenchmonkey
01-28-2014, 02:10 AM
I got that powder from Pendry coatings off Ebay. It does a real nice job with 1 coat tumble. Some powders just don't do well tumbling and I'm not quite sure why. If we could figure out how to increase the static charge in the lead and powder before tumbling maybe some of the HF powders would work better. Lead tends to take on a positive static charge while powder coat takes on a negative charge, if we could apply a negative charge to the powder before tumbling the whole proses may work even better.



Is this the stuff? http://www.ebay.com/itm/2lb-Powder-Coat-Coating-Mirror-Black-Polyester-/350985492495?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item51b85d980f

legend 550
01-28-2014, 10:06 PM
Looks to be the same 95% gloss polyester. I didn't know it was Tiger Drylac till I received the paper work with my order.

Wrenchmonkey
01-29-2014, 12:05 AM
Well.............. the top line of your post (above the picture) says "here is my first try at shake-n-bake, three coats, boolits on the right are gloss clear coat, 10mm 200gr:.

Sounds like 3 to me! I was just going by your own statement. That equals ~15 minutes x 3 coats = 45 minutes for 100 boolits. Waaaaaaay too much time for me!!!!!

Sorry, but I was just reading what you wrote..................... and commented on it.

Use whatever the heck method you want. I will always use ES gun.


banger

Just an observation... You don't size them every time, and 13 minutes of that process was the sizing, add 2 minutes per coat to the rest of the process, so you're looking at a total of 19 minutes of invested time for 100 rounds from start to finish.

Still way less time invested than a single coat from an ES gun, and that's BEFORE you get around to sizing them. He'll be done and have his final coat baking before somebody using an ES gun even has his equipment set up and 100 rounds put on his rack for spraying...

I'm gonna give this method a real earnest attempt. If I can get similar results, even with 3 coatings, I'll still be worlds ahead of the time and hassle of running an ES gun. Just my $0.02.

prickett
01-29-2014, 12:08 AM
I didn't know anybody did three coats. Two has always been fine. In fact, I single coat for my .45

bangerjim
01-29-2014, 01:35 AM
Just an observation... You don't size them every time, and 13 minutes of that process was the sizing, add 2 minutes per coat to the rest of the process, so you're looking at a total of 19 minutes of invested time for 100 rounds from start to finish.

Still way less time invested than a single coat from an ES gun, and that's BEFORE you get around to sizing them. He'll be done and have his final coat baking before somebody using an ES gun even has his equipment set up and 100 rounds put on his rack for spraying...

I'm gonna give this method a real earnest attempt. If I can get similar results, even with 3 coatings, I'll still be worlds ahead of the time and hassle of running an ES gun. Just my $0.02.

Well..........your $0.02 is rather late! That post was almost a month ago.

I'll put my 100 rounds up against those 100 any day. I go for quality........NOT quantity. As do hundreds on here that use ESPC. If you have NEVER DONE the gun application (which it sounds like), you have no idea on the time it actually takes to do it!

I have figured out the fast and easy way to do DT is a coolwhip container. It gives ~80% the quality of ES. It is nice to have an alternative procedure, but ES is still the superior finish. I have been using the DT to cover up some of the old slightly abrasive HF blacks I coated back in July with red. The black powder today is different and is not abrasive to the touch.

And by using the system I developed for mod'ing the HF equipment as explained on another thread months ago, I can be up and spraying in less time than it takes the compressor to charge to 120# (<1 min). It is actually pretty fast to do.

It is nice to have two different methods to choose from.

bangerjim

TheDoctor
01-29-2014, 07:59 AM
I normally hand tumble. Got to play with a powder coat gun for a few minutes the other day, did a few small batches just using foil, no fabricated trays. First time ever using a gun, so my results were ok, but not as nice as some I see posted here. Setup was fairly quick, spraying was easy. I can not bake near as many sprayed at one tine versus tumbled. But only doing one coat, it seems that my hands on time per bullet was about the same. The sizing takes the same time of course, but could set up and spray 40 bullets in less than 5 minutes.

Wrenchmonkey
01-29-2014, 12:12 PM
Well..........your $0.02 is rather late! That post was almost a month ago.

I'll put my 100 rounds up against those 100 any day. I go for quality........NOT quantity. As do hundreds on here that use ESPC. If you have NEVER DONE the gun application (which it sounds like), you have no idea on the time it actually takes to do it!

I have figured out the fast and easy way to do DT is a coolwhip container. It gives ~80% the quality of ES. It is nice to have an alternative procedure, but ES is still the superior finish. I have been using the DT to cover up some of the old slightly abrasive HF blacks I coated back in July with red. The black powder today is different and is not abrasive to the touch.

And by using the system I developed for mod'ing the HF equipment as explained on another thread months ago, I can be up and spraying in less time than it takes the compressor to charge to 120# (<1 min). It is actually pretty fast to do.

It is nice to have two different methods to choose from.

bangerjim

I realized that it was a little late, but I felt that it was still relevant. I'm not trying to start any arguments either, so don't take it that way. The original statement that you made--which I was addressing--was that doing 3 coats was going to take longer (45 minutes according to your statement, which was including a resizing between every coat); not that it was going to net inferior results. My point was that if you can get the same results with the 'shake 'n bake' method, but doing 3 coats, you're still going to be ahead in the long run, due to not having to count and rack up a bunch of bullets in trays. And having less mess/cleanup/dedicated space is a huge plus too.

Again, this is just based on the results I'm seeing pictures of, but it seems that with the right powder, the shake 'n bake can give comparable results with less effort, even if it does require multiple applications.

And your production rate could be MUCH higher, if you figured out the system. Be sizing 100 bullets while the next batch bakes, while the next batch after that tumbles... It SEEMS like it is possible to go for both quality AND quantity. And that'd be ideal for me, since I go through quite a bit of ammo. :-D

bangerjim
01-29-2014, 12:26 PM
I normally hand tumble. Got to play with a powder coat gun for a few minutes the other day, did a few small batches just using foil, no fabricated trays. First time ever using a gun, so my results were ok, but not as nice as some I see posted here. Setup was fairly quick, spraying was easy. I can not bake near as many sprayed at one tine versus tumbled. But only doing one coat, it seems that my hands on time per bullet was about the same. The sizing takes the same time of course, but could set up and spray 40 bullets in less than 5 minutes.

The big time bind is the design of your racks and the number that can fit in your oven. I normally get 50-60 boolits on a rack and can get 4 racks in the oven at a time, so there is at lease 200 bad boys. While those are baking, I am arranging and spraying another batch ready to pop into the already-hot oven. It goes pretty fast! If I need it to.

But life is short.......slow down, stop and smell the roses! After all, this IS just a hobby, right??? :grin:

One coat is all it takes for an excellent finish. 400F for 10 min does it.

Have fun!

bangerjim :guntootsmiley:

bangerjim
01-29-2014, 12:40 PM
I realized that it was a little late, but I felt that it was still relevant. I'm not trying to start any arguments either, so don't take it that way. The original statement that you made--which I was addressing--was that doing 3 coats was going to take longer (45 minutes according to your statement, which was including a resizing between every coat); not that it was going to net inferior results. My point was that if you can get the same results with the 'shake 'n bake' method, but doing 3 coats, you're still going to be ahead in the long run, due to not having to count and rack up a bunch of bullets in trays. And having less mess/cleanup/dedicated space is a huge plus too.

Again, this is just based on the results I'm seeing pictures of, but it seems that with the right powder, the shake 'n bake can give comparable results with less effort, even if it does require multiple applications.

And your production rate could be MUCH higher, if you figured out the system. Be sizing 100 bullets while the next batch bakes, while the next batch after that tumbles... It SEEMS like it is possible to go for both quality AND quantity. And that'd be ideal for me, since I go through quite a bit of ammo. :-D

Sounds like you are making your assumptions of time/quality/finish based upon just reading here.

When you have several thousand actually processed using BOTH methods (as I have), please give us your personal feedback!

And many of the pictures on here really suck....taken with cell phones.....and do not show the actual finish, coverage, and quality. So please do not base your assumptions on pix only. You can get lousy coats with DT and ES.....depends on your ability. Actually doing it.....touch & feel.....will tell you a whole bunch more.

Hundreds (mabe thousands!) of people on here are having good success (meeting their personal needs) using DT and/or ES. Both methods can yield very shootable slugs. The process choice is up to you!

Have fun, whatever method you choose to do. :drinks:

bangerjim

Beagle333
01-29-2014, 01:18 PM
I use both methods (ES and dry tumble) and both work well for me. Since I do actually use both (I can't spray when there is any wind at all, since I do it out in the yard), I can say that tumble is faster for one tray... but when I want to do a lot of them - I can spray and bake once, much faster than I can tumble and bake twice, especially since I have to tumble longer than it takes to spray, and also I have to wait to cool to tumble again, whereas I just dump em and spray new cool ones each load.
I'm going to try Banger's method of baking only 10 and see if that doesn't work for both methods.
It's not about the speed, really though. Both shoot equally well. Enjoy coating however you do it. My eyes are the only thing that can tell the difference. The gun, the target, and the chrony don't seem to know. :-D

You can easily figure out which is which. I'm just really glad that somebody figured out that PC works on boolits! I'm loving this!
http://i613.photobucket.com/albums/tt214/shutupandjump/PowderCoating/jan28003_zpsc8360cb7.jpg

http://i613.photobucket.com/albums/tt214/shutupandjump/PowderCoating/jan28002_zps2d6b9f85.jpg

Maximumbob54
01-29-2014, 02:48 PM
That is an awesome bullet. I think I'm in love with a bullet.

Beagle333
01-29-2014, 03:41 PM
That is a NOE. Here's the link: (you may already have one, but some might not recognize it.)
http://noebulletmolds.com/NV/product_info.php?cPath=35&products_id=457&osCsid=n0p38pvpm0fkhmpq0h246r0ej0
And it is a great boolit! http://www.marlinowners.com/forum/images/smilies/new/love.gif

Walter Laich
01-29-2014, 05:28 PM
B333
How did you get you bullets to have that speckled effect? Guessing some powder still in container when you added the red?

Beagle333
01-29-2014, 05:32 PM
Yes. I just add more powder to the can, and when I went to red, there was still some blue and green left from other spray sessions.

Hang Fire
01-29-2014, 07:07 PM
Well.............. the top line of your post (above the picture) says "here is my first try at shake-n-bake, three coats, boolits on the right are gloss clear coat, 10mm 200gr:.

Sounds like 3 to me! I was just going by your own statement. That equals ~15 minutes x 3 coats = 45 minutes for 100 boolits. Waaaaaaay too much time for me!!!!!

Sorry, but I was just reading what you wrote..................... and commented on it.

Use whatever the heck method you want. I will always use ES gun.


banger

Uh, do you ever do positives posts? Just asking.

bangerjim
01-29-2014, 08:47 PM
Uh, do you ever do positives posts? Just asking.

All the time. There is nothing negative about the post your are ******** about. Just pointing out previously written facts and commenting on them. If you have a problem with that, I am truly sorry.

Guess your are reading something in between the lines of text that is/was not there at all.


banger

Hang Fire
01-30-2014, 04:08 AM
Whatever!!

Maximumbob54
01-30-2014, 12:51 PM
Badger, don't stop posting these pics. Guys like you are what tipped me over the edge to try any of this and now I'm preaching the talk of powder coating.

Walter Laich
01-30-2014, 01:50 PM
since I love a good challenge I got a Cool Whip container at the store today. Made sure it had a number 5 on the bottom and the base was round. Went with the largest size since I don't want pc powder going everywhere. Going to have to eat the contents but that's not a problem around here.
.
As soon as it's empty I'll going to throw the top as far as I can see and give pc a try in it.
.
Will report back as the test is complete

Wrenchmonkey
02-01-2014, 12:12 AM
Sounds like you are making your assumptions of time/quality/finish based upon just reading here.

When you have several thousand actually processed using BOTH methods (as I have), please give us your personal feedback!

And many of the pictures on here really suck....taken with cell phones.....and do not show the actual finish, coverage, and quality. So please do not base your assumptions on pix only. You can get lousy coats with DT and ES.....depends on your ability. Actually doing it.....touch & feel.....will tell you a whole bunch more.

Hundreds (mabe thousands!) of people on here are having good success (meeting their personal needs) using DT and/or ES. Both methods can yield very shootable slugs. The process choice is up to you!

Have fun, whatever method you choose to do. :drinks:

bangerjim

Actually, I made no assumptions at all. My posts were ALL hypothetical. I said IF one could obtain comparable results... Good detective work there on figuring out that I was basing that speculation on the pictures I'd seen, considering that I explicitly stated the same... :roll:

Anyway, I tried the tumble method this evening for the first time in a vibratory tumbler. Had pretty decent results with just one coat, but I think I dumped the second coat a bit too early while it was still too hot, and peeled the hot paint on the second coat. I'll have to do more experimenting. I'm happy with the results from the cheap harbor freight stuff. I'll go ahead and invest in some quality paint.

And to answer your question, no making bullets isn't my hobby. Shooting is my hobby. Making bullets is a means to that end. Some days I enjoy it, others I absolutely hate it. My worst days shooting are always better than my best days making ammo. :D

garym1a2
02-05-2014, 10:43 PM
Here are some pictures of my process. I tried 3 different paints.
1. Powder by pound RAL 5011 STEELE BLUE .
2. Powder by pound RAL 6010 GRASS GREEN
3. Harbor freight Red.
My process is very simple for these, this pictures are the lee 40 cal, 175gr TC. I have also done the Lee 120Gr TC and Lee 125 gr round nose.

1. First I dump about 250 boolits into the pan.
2. Sprinkle a couple spoons of powder on top.
3. Shake the pan back and forth, top to bottom for about one minute.
4. Dump boolits onto pan.
5. Place two pans into oven(500 total) and bake for 20 minutes. (Powder by pound recommends 10 minutes at 400F).
6. Remove boolits, cool and repeat a second coating.

I am in Florida where its 75 degrees and very humid this past weekend.
95798
95797
95799
95800
95801
95802
With these 3 colors, my best results was the Green, second was the Blue. I could not get the red to cover. I did about 3700 of the 40 cal and about 4200 of the 9mm. By rate with this setup is about 750 an hour for the 40 and 1000 per hour for the 9mm.

I got some sticking with these trays, but as the coating builds up on them I get less.

prickett
02-06-2014, 12:23 AM
Looks like your tumble trays are metal. Try using tupperware or whipped cream containers (i.e. plastic). Most of us use plastic and have good results. Maybe the metal is affecting the static charge of the boolits/paint ????

Liberty'sSon
02-06-2014, 12:25 AM
Here is my first attempt at PC. I decided to go with dry tumble because I like the ease of it. I used a zombie green from PBTP, dry tumbled for 30 seconds or so , dumped them on the trays, and baked at 400F for 20 min. Two coats. I know it's not as smooth as the ES method, but I'm not trying to win a beauty contest, I'm punching holes in paper. I think they look quite good myself.
http://i123.photobucket.com/albums/o310/LibertysSon1/8cfeac73886e86c15d20414a4583f386_zps6d487f91.jpg
http://i123.photobucket.com/albums/o310/LibertysSon1/c5953682989fcd98cd6e5f29553cac87_zps1346b096.jpg

garym1a2
02-06-2014, 09:17 AM
I will try something else with the Harbor freight Red as it did not work with my process and I brought 4 lbs of it. I am just spoiled with the green from PBTP, it justs jumps on the bullets and coatrs very nice plus it has a 10 min cure cycle. Regardless, since I just coated 9k bullets it will be a while till I get them loaded and more cast. I really like this process as its fast, the reloading dies stay cleaner, the gun also gets much less dirty. Plus I get to color code my bullets so I now what batch they are.
The PBTP Blue bullets I have shot them into by sand hill and recovered them. The paint stays on the bullet except the side that hits the sand. It and some of the lead is sandblasted away. Next outing I plan to recover both green and blue bullets for compareision.


Looks like your tumble trays are metal. Try using tupperware or whipped cream containers (i.e. plastic). Most of us use plastic and have good results. Maybe the metal is affecting the static charge of the boolits/paint ????

Liberty'sSon
02-06-2014, 09:49 AM
Gary, what other PBTP colors have you tried? Are there any that don't work with the dry tumble method?

garym1a2
02-06-2014, 12:24 PM
Just the two. The blue worked OK, but the Green was the best as it seemed to just jump onto the bullet and give great coverage.

Gary, what other PBTP colors have you tried? Are there any that don't work with the dry tumble method?

prickett
02-06-2014, 04:34 PM
Just the two. The blue worked OK, but the Green was the best as it seemed to just jump onto the bullet and give great coverage.

Can you please update the thread http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?226662-Definitive-List-What-powders-work-and-what-powders-don-t with the specifics? Thanks!

Roosters
02-09-2014, 10:46 PM
Here is my first attempt at the shake,rattle & roll.
When I cast them I just dropped them on a cotton T shirt that was folded and let them cool.
Pre heated toaster oven to 400. Washed my hands good with dishwashing detergent (to remove any oil, sweat or buggers that were on my hands) & dried them.
Picked boolits up from T shirt placed in a plastic bowl then shook a little HF red powder in and put the lid on. Just guessing about 3 or 4 table spoons full.
Shake rattle & roll for about 3 min. I removed them from the bowl with needle nose pliers. As I removed them I tapped the pliers on the edge of the bowl to remove excess powder.
Stood on a tray with nonstick foil & placed in the oven.
Watched till they all glossed over then looked at the clock and went and got a cold beer.
12 min. later removed and let cool. Smashed one in the vice and got another beer and took a picture.
These are the Lee .430 240gr TL. :drinks:

http://i1173.photobucket.com/albums/r600/threescrew3/008_zpsc75fc354.jpg

bangerjim
02-10-2014, 12:41 AM
Good batch. But 3-4 TABLEspoons is a LOT! I use about 2/3 TEAspoon for ~50 boolits. If it needs more, I add just a sprinkle. I do NOT use a lid so I can watch them closely.

I drop my hot casts on an old terry towel in a cake pan full of water. Cools them fast and no burnt towels!

Keep up the good coats!

bangerjim

Roosters
02-10-2014, 09:24 AM
My bowl was a Tupperware that followed me to the garage from the kitchen. Pretty good size. That batch was 70 or 80 240gr 44s and just covered the bottom good. Anyway just left the remaining powder and stuck the lid on it, should be good to go next time.

Right now I would trade my neighbor's right arm for some 2400 powder. :kidding:

jmort
02-10-2014, 11:14 AM
Those Boolits look real good. Dry PC May turn out to be the best compromise of all. Inspirational post. I believe it is also critical to get the two beer timing down as well.

nframe
02-20-2014, 11:14 PM
Tried ES and Shake and Bake, I will tumble, strain, and bake on a hardware cloth tray that fits in the toaster oven. Cast some, preheat toaster oven, tumble in powder while the pot melts more lead and bake while casting more. Two deep on the screen doesn't matter.

popper
02-25-2014, 01:36 PM
DT PC HF red & white in #5 tub, 165 gr 308s. Batches mostly come out OK but noticed that areas on ones that didn't coat completely will NOT coat at all. Not even for a second coat. Appears to be where the boolit slides across the plastic.

bangerjim
02-25-2014, 02:55 PM
I see that with colors other than red. Even then, there are small areas where the powder does not stick The red seems to melt & run a bit when baking to cover up those very small divots, but large areas will not cover. As long as the lead "show-thru" spots are NOT on the tops of the grease grooves!

There is a technique to your "shake & roll" that will minimize that. The last 30 seconds I "swish" the boolits around the side walls in a circular motion. That evidently builds up an additional static charge. Then before taking them out (I do NOT just dump them!), I gently roll them back and forth on the coolwhip container's slightly domed bottom, making sure there is an ever so thin coating of powder there. Then lift them out with surgical tools. Dumping on a screen seems to knock off too much powder and leaves "screen lines" baked into the sides. You cannot coat 100 at a time! I usually do no more than 50 small cal and 35 big cal. Considering it only takes 2 minutes of shaking to get a covering, that is pretty fast.

I do ONLY ONE DT COAT. If two are required, I can ESPC faster!

White and yellow will not give good coverage.......dark lead shows thru but there is still a covering there, just not as thick as I would like.

That is why ESPC is the best. Even then, yellow does not cover well.....darker spots.

banger

a.squibload
02-26-2014, 01:21 AM
I see several references to preheating the oven, I just put 'em in and turn it on,
about 12 min with HF red, seems to work fine. It's adjusted to 400ºF.

Got some yellow, haven't tried it yet.

bangerjim
02-26-2014, 12:11 PM
I see several references to preheating the oven, I just put 'em in and turn it on,
about 12 min with HF red, seems to work fine. It's adjusted to 400ºF.

Got some yellow, haven't tried it yet.

Any good food cook and recipe calls for a preheated oven. Ask your wife/girlfriend/whatever. I prefer a preheat. Just works for me.

banger

Walter Laich
02-26-2014, 03:08 PM
I tried preheating and cold oven. Run preheating for 10 minutes, cold for 20. both seem to work well for me.

Got my ES gun two weeks ago and been sick with fever so haven't had a chance to use it. Driving me crazy not to try it out--maybe this week-end....

Beagle333
02-26-2014, 03:25 PM
I like to preheat. I have watched my El Cheapo oven run well over my preset temp during the first heat before it settles out. :coffeecom

bangerjim
02-26-2014, 03:50 PM
I tried preheating and cold oven. Run preheating for 10 minutes, cold for 20. both seem to work well for me.

Got my ES gun two weeks ago and been sick with fever so haven't had a chance to use it. Driving me crazy not to try it out--maybe this week-end....

Hope you recover soon! You will have fun messing round with the gun. I use both ES & DT for different cal's and needs. Both are lightyears better than messing around with grease and paste wax brews.

Take care,

banger

a.squibload
02-27-2014, 12:55 AM
Yeah but...

if you touch the hot oven there will be boolits all over the place!

Get well soon Walter.

HDS
02-27-2014, 01:11 AM
The MCC method was looking like the number 1 contender until this thread. So simple and such nice results. Now to figure out which coating/color works best.

bangerjim
02-27-2014, 01:14 AM
Yeah but...

if you touch the hot oven there will be boolits all over the place!

Get well soon Walter.

Well, just don't touch the sides of the oven!!!!!! I have put lots of stuff in and out of a HOT oven for many many years and have NEVER been burned. Not once.

banger

Beagle333
02-27-2014, 10:59 AM
I do wear my casting gloves when moving trays to the oven, because I slide the rack out (which is hot, because I preheat), then slide the tray partially onto the rack and slide both back in, with gloved hands. I find that to be a smooth motion and haven't knocked any boolits over except the one time a kid fired a shotgun at a squirrel, right up against my property line, as I was loading the oven. :roll:
(I spilled all of those and just started over and dry tumbled that batch)[smilie=1:

bangerjim
02-27-2014, 02:44 PM
At only 400F, all I use are a pair of heavy white cotton gloves from HF. They allow me to have prefect flexibility unlike casting gloves and will not allow the heat thru for at least 10 seconds, plenty of time to move the racks over in front of my evap cooler to cool them down.

banger

Rushthezeppelin
02-28-2014, 04:13 PM
Bout to be trying my first batch of pc tonight and had a question. When people say the are baking on hardware cloth are yall refering to screen door material? I picked up a roll of alum screen at lowes and am wondering if this will work for a baking tray.

prickett
02-28-2014, 04:47 PM
Bout to be trying my first batch of pc tonight and had a question. When people say the are baking on hardware cloth are yall refering to screen door material? I picked up a roll of alum screen at lowes and am wondering if this will work for a baking tray.

No. Hardware cloth is a stiff 1/8", 1/4" or 1/2" steel mesh. You can kinda see it in this link: http://www.lowes.com/pd_90-16418-122410_0__?productId=3160773

Screen may work, but hw cloth is stiffer and has fewer points of contact, both of which are more desirable.

Rushthezeppelin
02-28-2014, 04:48 PM
No. Hardware cloth is a stiff 1/8", 1/4" or 1/2" mesh. You can kinda see it in this link: http://www.lowes.com/pd_90-16418-122410_0__?productId=3160773

So will screen door material work at all?

bangerjim
02-28-2014, 05:49 PM
You are gonna get a LOT of contact points and every one will leave "bad spots" on your boolits. Especially on the tops of the grease grooves.

I have used the 1/4" screen (called hardware cloth....heaven only knows why!) and everywhere the boolit laid, there was a "peek" of lead showing thru and high areas of PC. Not what I want.

I pick them up with surgical tools and set them on NS foil. They turn out as good as can be expected with DT. Minimum divots from thin spots. ESPC is still the superior method.

Now I have a big roll of hardware cloth I do not have any use for. Inferior method in my book. I guess people think they have to do thousands of rounds a hour by just dumping them. Nobody can load & shoot them that fast.

Take your time, pick them up with a tool, and put them on foil. You will be much happier. And I am talking not just for cosmetic reasons on the nose.......grease groove tops will be coated!

banger

Rushthezeppelin
03-01-2014, 04:10 AM
Well ended up finding the hardware cloth, smallest they had was 1/4" which I figured was at least small enough not to let my 30 cal bullets through. Ended up having problems with the bullet sticking to the mesh and ripping a bit of the PC as well as to other bullets. Went ahead and did a second coat and tried to break them from the mesh before they were completely cooled. Still have have most with bald spots from mesh contact and other bullets. Any tips on keeping the bullets from sticking so bad? Am I maybe not hand tumbling long enough or something like that? One that I tried out did pass the smash test btw. Also I'm using PBTP RAL green.

HDS
03-01-2014, 05:55 AM
You are gonna get a LOT of contact points and every one will leave "bad spots" on your boolits. Especially on the tops of the grease grooves.

I have used the 1/4" screen (called hardware cloth....heaven only knows why!) and everywhere the boolit laid, there was a "peek" of lead showing thru and high areas of PC. Not what I want.

I pick them up with surgical tools and set them on NS foil. They turn out as good as can be expected with DT. Minimum divots from thin spots. ESPC is still the superior method.

Now I have a big roll of hardware cloth I do not have any use for. Inferior method in my book. I guess people think they have to do thousands of rounds a hour by just dumping them. Nobody can load & shoot them that fast.

Take your time, pick them up with a tool, and put them on foil. You will be much happier. And I am talking not just for cosmetic reasons on the nose.......grease groove tops will be coated!

banger

This is part of the reason I want to try the MCC method of coating, some guy said that using a heat gun on the bullets before going into the pan and while still shaking them about, eliminated sticking and the need to place them base down. I'm interested in this method since now I want to coat all my bullets and not just the 223s as I was planning on.

I want to reduce my exposure to lead, and in turn reduce any accidental exposure to my kids. The new house, garage and reloading setup will be made with that in mind as well, a single locked room with only one key will be where I reload. I will cast at my parents place to keep it as far away as possible from the kids.

a.squibload
03-01-2014, 06:44 AM
Agree with Bangerjim, tried window screen, it left a rough pattern.
Setting each boolit on non-stick foil allows smooth coat all over,
including the base. Tool marks from picking them up by the nose
are very rare, almost never find marks as the PC melts together.

If tou teach the kids not to eat the lead they will be fine.
Wash before eating (you do this anyway, right?).
The myth of "lead fumes" from casting has been debunked many times.
Don't be deluded by non-science politicos who want to eliminate ammunition
(& free enterprise, rights, liberty, personal responsibility, etc. ).

PS: "boolits all over the place" was meant to be humorous.
After welding for so long I am not scared of a toaster oven.
I found that preheating for PC is an unnecessary waste of current.

bangerjim
03-01-2014, 11:58 AM
Agree with Bangerjim, tried window screen, it left a rough pattern.
Setting each boolit on non-stick foil allows smooth coat all over,
including the base. Tool marks from picking them up by the nose
are very rare, almost never find marks as the PC melts together.

If tou teach the kids not to eat the lead they will be fine.
Wash before eating (you do this anyway, right?).
The myth of "lead fumes" from casting has been debunked many times.
Don't be deluded by non-science politicos who want to eliminate ammunition
(& free enterprise, rights, liberty, personal responsibility, etc. ).

PS: "boolits all over the place" was meant to be humorous.
After welding for so long I am not scared of a toaster oven.
I found that preheating for PC is an unnecessary waste of current.

I know what you mean about "all over the place"! Had the cat run in front of me while I was transporting a full load of 70 38's to the oven (only 4 feet!), tripped me, and nice ESPC's slugs were all over the patio bricks! The cat escaped unscathed. Most of the powder came off. Wove a small tapestry of profanity! Recoated and threw the cat over the fence B4 trying that again!

Only time that has ever happened!

banger

bangerjim
03-01-2014, 12:05 PM
Well ended up finding the hardware cloth, smallest they had was 1/4" which I figured was at least small enough not to let my 30 cal bullets through. Ended up having problems with the bullet sticking to the mesh and ripping a bit of the PC as well as to other bullets. Went ahead and did a second coat and tried to break them from the mesh before they were completely cooled. Still have have most with bald spots from mesh contact and other bullets. Any tips on keeping the bullets from sticking so bad? Am I maybe not hand tumbling long enough or something like that? One that I tried out did pass the smash test btw. Also I'm using PBTP RAL green.

Remember, the powder is liquifying and that will run down on the screen and stick! That is why the ONLY way to guarantee NOT having sticking and bad spots is to pick them up and put them on a flat tray with NS foil. We use NS foil to prevent sticking. anything else you use will allow the powder to stick.

Sorry, but I have messed with all kinds of baking methods and the best is still setting on the base (no nuts) on NS foil. As I said earlier, it takes only a short time to arrange the slugs in rows with a ruler.

You don't need to worry about the nose......it's the TOPS of the grease grooves that need the coating to be 100%.

banger

prickett
03-01-2014, 12:20 PM
Well ended up finding the hardware cloth, smallest they had was 1/4" which I figured was at least small enough not to let my 30 cal bullets through. Ended up having problems with the bullet sticking to the mesh and ripping a bit of the PC as well as to other bullets. Went ahead and did a second coat and tried to break them from the mesh before they were completely cooled. Still have have most with bald spots from mesh contact and other bullets. Any tips on keeping the bullets from sticking so bad? Am I maybe not hand tumbling long enough or something like that? One that I tried out did pass the smash test btw. Also I'm using PBTP RAL green.

I find that if you immediately swirl the mesh tray (I bend the sides of my mesh up about 1" on all four sides) after the buzzer goes off you greatly reduce this problem. It also breaks apart any boolits that are sticking to others.

Rushthezeppelin
03-01-2014, 03:25 PM
Remember, the powder is liquifying and that will run down on the screen and stick! That is why the ONLY way to guarantee NOT having sticking and bad spots is to pick them up and put them on a flat tray with NS foil. We use NS foil to prevent sticking. anything else you use will allow the powder to stick.

Sorry, but I have messed with all kinds of baking methods and the best is still setting on the base (no nuts) on NS foil. As I said earlier, it takes only a short time to arrange the slugs in rows with a ruler.

You don't need to worry about the nose......it's the TOPS of the grease grooves that need the coating to be 100%.

banger

So I'm guessing these might have problems leading?

http://img.tapatalk.com/d/14/03/02/urygy4y6.jpg

bangerjim
03-01-2014, 06:40 PM
So I'm guessing these might have problems leading?

http://img.tapatalk.com/d/14/03/02/urygy4y6.jpg

If you can see lead on the tops of the grease grooves.......so can your barrel!!!!!!!!!

May not be a problem, but I do not take the risk and re-do the ones that look silver!

banger

bangerjim
03-01-2014, 06:46 PM
Well, I was messing around this afternoon and tried to DT a mix of black, red, and yellow that I use with my ES gun to get a darkish shade of brown. Looks really great. Out of the gun.

Now for the tumble...........

Amazingly, the boolits started immediately turning RED with a little YELLOW in there! No black. I kept swirling and eventually the only thing left in the coolwhip tub was BLACK! The boolits were well coated with the two other colors and baked well.

So much for the definitive proof!

banger

fcvan
03-01-2014, 07:15 PM
Banger, you have discovered the fool proof method to reclaim black powder when mixed with other colors. You sir, are a genius!

bangerjim
03-01-2014, 08:02 PM
Banger, you have discovered the fool proof method to reclaim black powder when mixed with other colors. You sir, are a genius!

Please.........tell my wife and kids about that "genius" thing! They still do not believe me!!!!!! HA.....ha.

banger

Mike Hughes
03-01-2014, 10:23 PM
So will screen door material work at all?

I use the screen material for all of my 223 and some of the larger cal, also use the hardware cloth. I think the fine screen leaves less noticeable marks and has given me some of my best results

PodPeople
03-02-2014, 08:00 PM
I use the screen material for all of my 223 and some of the larger cal, also use the hardware cloth. I think the fine screen leaves less noticeable marks and has given me some of my best results

I agree. I get much better results using aluminum screen than I did with stainless hardware cloth. Boolits would stick fast to the hardware cloth and removing them would pull paint off, exposing lead. They can be easily removed from the aluminum screening with barely noticeable contact marks and no exposed lead. I think the large number of fine wires spreads the boolit weight out to more contact points.

a.squibload
03-02-2014, 09:19 PM
Just for clarity, "grease groove tops" = "driving bands".
Or sumpin like that!

nighthunter
03-02-2014, 11:49 PM
I use a very course grade of stainless steel door screening. The openings are larger than normal window screening but much smaller than hardware cloth. The bullets don't stick and the screen leaves no marks. Not sure where to purchase this stuff as my father had this stashed down in his basement and he probably recycled it from its previous use. I'll check around online and see what I come up with.

Nighthunter

bangerjim
03-04-2014, 03:19 PM
Read late last nite (cant' find thread now) that many are reporting HF is advising they are canceling the RED from their mail orders due to "unavailability". Either WE have cleaned them out or they are worried about us evil shooters using their "fine" products to make those evil boolits! :Fire:

Rumors are they are dropping red?????????? Store shelves are bare??????????


OMG!!!!!!!!!! [smilie=1:

I just got back from one of my local HF stores (I have 4 of them locally) and there was plenty of all colors. I did get 3 more jars of red!!!!!!!

I feel for your guys that have to rely on mail order for stuff. I lived for a decade one year in WY! Had to order everything by mail or drive 120+ miles to SLC.

But just a heads up on HF RED powder! Our favorite!

banger

bangerjim
03-04-2014, 09:52 PM
After coating over 500 slugs just now, mabe we need to start another thread or name for a variant of the original "tumbling" process.

Using an old coolwhip #5 container, I have found, to get almost perfect coatings, you need to swirl rather than tumble. The word "tumble" means to many starting on this road the need to shell out $$$$$ to buy a vibrator or rotary tumbler to do this. Not so! My first attempts at this were with a rotary and it did not work.....at all. Next tried the vibrator.....no luck.....at all. Both were total disasters!!!!!!!!!! Tupperware.....disaster.

Now, using a throw-away plastic coolwhip (#5 polypro) container, and just "swirling and sloshing" the boolits gently around WITHOUT the lid, I get very high quality coats on the 1st coat & bake.

One of the very important things is to start off with a VERY TINY amount of powder, about 1/8 tsp! Add it as you swirl and add more when you see no powder left in the bottom. That is why you leave the lid off. Add small amounts as the boolits coat. Stop when they are coated. There should be virtually NO powder left in the container. If you have powder left, that will cause uneven coating and perhaps lumps. Easy swirling, especially in heavier slugs, prevents "collision divots" where boolits knock the powder off their neighbors.

~2 minutes is all it takes.

I have also found just dumping them out on screens/wires does not meet my quality control level. Too many lay marks, bare spots, and wire lumps. I pick them up with a hemostat.Those things have an excellent grip. And by dipping the ends of the jaws in powder B4 starting, you do not remove powder from your boolits when you pick them up! I have NOT found that moving them around while they are hot will eliminate bare spots or lumps......just makes more grooves in the hot PC.

I am amazed at the quality I am getting following the above "swirl" procedure exactly as stated.

I know there are those out there that like to try to do hundreds at at time in a mechanical device. If you are getting results that meet your needs......excellent. I do about 50 at a time in the tub...~150 on a rack......fill 2 racks while the other 2 are baking.

But, following my above ideas will give you unbelievable results!

This could now be called DS....."dry swirling"! No tumblers/vibrators needed!


Let us know YOUR results! :drinks:

banger :guntootsmiley:

Beagle333
03-04-2014, 10:04 PM
After coating over 500 slugs just now, mabe we need to start another thread or name for a variant of the original "tumbling" process.

Using an old coolwhip #5 container, I have found, to get almost perfect coatings, you need to swirl rather than tumble.

I believe Freightman was the pioneer of the dry swirl in a plastic tub, way back in September.... he should get to name it, if it gets a name. 8-)

See the first post:
http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?212098-easy-PC&highlight=

Hang Fire
03-05-2014, 12:58 AM
I just got back from one of my local HF stores (I have 4 of them locally) and there was plenty of all colors. I did get 3 more jars of red!!!!!!!

I feel for your guys that have to rely on mail order for stuff. I lived for a decade one year in WY! Had to order everything by mail or drive 120+ miles to SLC.

banger


LOL, I feel for guys that live in a population congested area where there are four local Harbor Freight stores.

Beagle333
03-05-2014, 06:23 AM
Oh Geez, it's not just gunpowder anymore.... Let the hoarding begin!!!! :-D:popcorn:

bangerjim
03-05-2014, 12:32 PM
We have discussed for a while just what actually makes the powder stick to the lead when rolling them around in certain plastic containers. Some plastics work well....some do not.

Well, messing around like I always do..........I added a TINY bit of moly dioxide to some red powder to see if it would mix. It did mix but totally prevented the lead from even taking a tiny bit of powder.

The moly powder COMPLETELY kills static electric charges.

We know that because most gun powders are coated with graphite, a similar lube, to minimize static charges when handling it. Moly does the same thing to the red powder. I just ended up with a moly coated coolwhip bowl and naked boolits!

Results......stick with PC powders only.

Just like Edison said......"I now know 1000 ways NOT to make a lightbulb!"

banger

jmort
03-05-2014, 12:46 PM
So is the PC gun on eBay? I like DT aka dry tumble. Same thing with tumble lube, you swirl. So are you now on the DT band wagon?

bangerjim
03-05-2014, 04:21 PM
So is the PC gun on eBay? I like DT aka dry tumble. Same thing with tumble lube, you swirl. So are you now on the DT band wagon?

I use whatever method suits the application. Now that I have "gotten thru the fog" as Pelosi famously said (!), my boolits are probably at 85% of ESPC.

No I will never give up the ES, but DT offers alternatives (like 000 shot in groups of 3). I have played around with it, shot it, and it appears to be functionally good.

No......my HF gun will NEVER be on evilbay. I would take a hammer to it before selling it on there. As you can probably figure out, I do not like evilbay or any other on-line "auction" whorehouse.

I use the ES gun to coat boolits with black and other colors, as well as many shop items that need the tough coating. I always wanted on for years and boolit spraying forced me over the edge. You cannot DT tools and holders and garden tools!!!!!!! The ES gun is an excellent coating application tool I have in my painting/coating arsenal.

I merely wanted to post my results so those starting out in our habit can avoid all the wasted time I experienced with various mechanical things, wrong containers, too much powder, etc.

I hope it helps as guidance to those trying it!!!!!!


banger

dverna
03-08-2014, 09:09 PM
Has hell frozen over???

Banger has accepted DT as "acceptable". LOL

Just a few comments.
Banger was man enough to post that the method works well.
"Quality" is relative. The vast majority of you guys are coating pistol bullets. If you are like me, unless accuracy is significantly affected, any slight advantage to ES is lost in the blasting we do with pistols.
The expense of a gun and small compressor are not deal killers or much of a factor - if they are needed. But not having to ES apply the powder makes this process easier and you can put more bullets on the tray - so it is faster. And speed is nice to have, even if you do not need it.

Great thread

Don Verna

jmort
03-08-2014, 09:23 PM
I'm waiting for team HI-TEK to jump on the band wagon as well. All of this is a cost/benefit analysis, and I just don't see anything other than DT PC winning out in the analysis. In the fullness of time something else will probably come along, but at that point, private ownership of lead will probably be illegal.

bangerjim
03-09-2014, 12:08 AM
Has hell frozen over???

Banger has accepted DT as "acceptable". LOL

Just a few comments.
Banger was man enough to post that the method works well.
"Quality" is relative. The vast majority of you guys are coating pistol bullets. If you are like me, unless accuracy is significantly affected, any slight advantage to ES is lost in the blasting we do with pistols.
The expense of a gun and small compressor are not deal killers or much of a factor - if they are needed. But not having to ES apply the powder makes this process easier and you can put more bullets on the tray - so it is faster. And speed is nice to have, even if you do not need it.

Great thread

Don Verna

According to the weatherman, It has!!!!!! At least on the east coast! HA...........ha!

I still prefer the ES method but DT will give guys starting out a good taste of what can be done without spending a fortune on lubra-matics and grease.

I have "swirled" several hundred rounds with good coatings. Not 100%...but perrrrrrrrty dang good....after discovering the coolwhip (#5 plastic) trick.

I still really like the look of the matte black with ES. And have not noticed any abrasive problems with the newer bottles of powder. Only time will tell.

banger

dverna
03-09-2014, 06:41 PM
Banger,

I live about 275 miles from Hell Michigan. It has frozen over.

Don Verna

Hillbillychemist
03-09-2014, 08:55 PM
Tumble or "swirl" coated these this weekend. What's the consensus, do I need a second coat or am I good to proceed?
http://img.tapatalk.com/d/14/03/10/udy7arer.jpg

Thanks

Liberty'sSon
03-09-2014, 10:39 PM
Looks good to me Hillbilly. Load em up. Is that color SDWB?

Rushthezeppelin
03-10-2014, 12:30 AM
Well here's my first acceptable batch of pc all loaded up. 20 300blk, 161gr (Lee 312-155 with COWW) over 15gr of lil gun.

http://img.tapatalk.com/d/14/03/10/uhydyva3.jpg

Thanks for all the people that have already done all the legwork, especially those that pioneered DT.

Love Life
03-10-2014, 12:45 AM
I'm waiting for team HI-TEK to jump on the band wagon as well.

Why??

jmort
03-10-2014, 12:47 AM
Simplicity and efficacy.

Love Life
03-10-2014, 12:48 AM
Meh. HT is simple if you can read instructions and stop fiddling with the oven knob...

I will be trying this method out though. Looks very intriguing indeed.

I have about 10,000 bullets coated, so that runs to about $.0064 per bullet.

jmort
03-10-2014, 12:52 AM
If nothing else, you will call it like you see it. Will await your opinion. One nice thing is that you only need some powder and a Cool Whip container. You have the rest.

Hillbillychemist
03-10-2014, 09:48 AM
Looks good to me Hillbilly. Load em up. Is that color SDWB?

Yea it's all powder paints sdwb

DxieLandMan
03-10-2014, 12:04 PM
Ok, I'm ready to start dry powder coating my boolits. Wife said if they were pink, she would shoot more of them. What is the HF colors called and is it ready at the store? Question 2, does the PC act as a substitute for lube? I'm casting with the Lee TL style molds. Thank you for your help!

bangerjim
03-10-2014, 12:12 PM
Ok, I'm ready to start dry powder coating my boolits. Wife said if they were pink, she would shoot more of them. What is the HF colors called and is it ready at the store? Question 2, does the PC act as a substitute for lube? I'm casting with the Lee TL style molds. Thank you for your help!

Discussed many times in many threads........HF powder is on the shelf in many stores. Some report outages, so you will have to check with your store.

PC eliminates the need for ANY lube! DO NOT use lubes as they could degrade the coating over time, especially down inside the case. Again....covered many MANY times in the PC threads.

PC works with any style mold. I have and use them all.

Have fun!

bangerjim

DxieLandMan
03-10-2014, 12:29 PM
Thank you for the help. going to try this weekend.

doctorggg
03-10-2014, 09:09 PM
Ok, I'm ready to start dry powder coating my boolits. Wife said if they were pink, she would shoot more of them.

I mixed HF Red & White to get a nice shade of pink. Can't tell you the exact percentages just went by color in the cool whip bowl. Hopefully this helps you DXIELANDMAN

Sgtonory
03-10-2014, 09:59 PM
Well here's my first acceptable batch of pc all loaded up. 20 300blk, 161gr (Lee 312-155 with COWW) over 15gr of lil gun.

http://img.tapatalk.com/d/14/03/10/uhydyva3.jpg

Thanks for all the people that have already done all the legwork, especially those that pioneered DT.

Those look sweet!

Rushthezeppelin
03-10-2014, 11:50 PM
Those look sweet!

Funny I thought they looked kinda mehhh but I knew they were done well enough to shoot. Sure enough though they shoot even worse than I thought they looked (like 10"+ @ 25 bad) and the load I picked was fairly hot. Got my first ejector swipe ever on the 7th round, others were pretty flattened (but not cratered or filling out the pocket). Decided to call it at that and just try out some of the Aguila Colibri (the 20gr 375fps stuff) I managed to find the other day. Turns out those things shot just as bad as my reloads, so much for killing bunnies in the backyard with my 10/22 with these things. They are as freaking quite as a pellet gun so I was excited at first to actually put these on paper to see if they could do minute of bunny head. I could literally see the fliers flying off like a curveball at only 25yds on 9x zoom so the best I can hope for is bunny roulette lol.

popper
03-11-2014, 09:58 AM
twist of 10/22 is probably too slow for the subs. curveball at only 25yd What is your alloy for the BO?

popper
03-13-2014, 04:27 PM
Anyone have luck with Shake & bake, GC installed? Tried with HF red and it wouldn't stick to the copper checks. Also didn't do too well with second coat. Shucks.

Love Life
03-13-2014, 04:30 PM
This method is wack. Back to my other methods.

crawfobj
03-13-2014, 06:41 PM
Might need to clean the checks in a solvent before tumbling. I'm guessing they have a film of lube on them from when they were made.

Rushthezeppelin
03-13-2014, 06:55 PM
twist of 10/22 is probably too slow for the subs. curveball at only 25yd What is your alloy for the BO?

Was shooting the super light colibris, perhaps had too much twist for the bullet.

As to BO loads they were straight wheel weights in the 312-155 mold and PCed with pbtp green. My best guess as to why they failed so miserably was either inconsistent bases, super sloppy PC, or the lack of a gas check. The hot load may have exacerbated things as well. It was using bullets from my second time casting so I was still working out the kinks. Ive fixed the first two on the batch I cast last night so If they are still poo on accuracy I might need to invest in checks (or a check maker).

bangerjim
03-13-2014, 07:17 PM
This method is wack. Back to my other methods.

I thought that at first too. Messed with it for well over 2 weeks until I discovered the Coolwhip (and no other!) container trick.

Use very little powder.....1/8 tsp to start
leave lid off so you can see how they are coating
use only 30 or so boolits at a time (depending on cal)
swirl gently (!) in circular motion and back and forth. DO NOT TUMBLE as that knocks off the powder when they collide.
When powder is all "coated up", add a tiny bit more and keep swirling until no more will stick to your boolits
If you have powder left in the bottom, you used too much
Do NOT dump...pick up with tweezers or a surgical clamp
Sit on NS foil
Bake 10 min @400F (season to taste!)
Once you get the hang of it, it goes pretty fast!

This method gives me boolits that are ~85% the quality of ESPC without dragging out the compressor and gun. Main thing is to get the tops of the grease grooves coated well. ESPC still gives a perfect coat every time and is the only method that works with HF black, but DT is a viable alternative for coating at night, as my oven and ESPC station are all outside!

And this is an excellent cost-effective method for those just starting out or who are "dead broke" which many seem to be under this Damocrap regime.

Have fun coating!

banger

fattires
03-13-2014, 07:18 PM
Anyone have luck with Shake & bake, GC installed? Tried with HF red and it wouldn't stick to the copper checks. Also didn't do too well with second coat. Shucks.

I had good luck dry tumbling with checks installed. I was using aluminum checks, maybe that made a difference?

Beagle333
03-13-2014, 07:23 PM
Dry tumbled in red, with a little bit of blue. But these are Al checks. It worked pretty well though.8-)
http://i613.photobucket.com/albums/tt214/shutupandjump/PowderCoating/360156012_zpsba26df93.jpg

Love Life
03-13-2014, 07:31 PM
I thought that at first too. Messed with it for well over 2 weeks until I discovered the Coolwhip (and no other!) container trick.

Use very little powder.....1/8 tsp to start
leave lid off so you can see how they are coating
use only 30 or so boolits at a time (depending on cal)
swirl gently (!) in circular motion and back and forth. DO NOT TUMBLE as that knocks off the powder when they collide.
When powder is all "coated up", add a tiny bit more and keep swirling until no more will stick to your boolits
If you have powder left in the bottom, you used too much
Do NOT dump...pick up with tweezers or a surgical clamp
Sit on NS foil
Bake 10 min @400F (season to taste!)
Once you get the hang of it, it goes pretty fast!

This method gives me boolits that are ~85% the quality of ESPC without dragging out the compressor and gun. Main thing is to get the tops of the grease grooves coated well. ESPC still gives a perfect coat every time and is the only method that works with HF black, but DT is a viable alternative for coating at night, as my oven and ESPC station are all outside!

And this is an excellent cost-effective method for those just starting out or who are "dead broke" which many seem to be under this Damocrap regime.

Have fun coating!

banger

Too much of a pain. My other method is much simpler and achieves the same magic. I don't like to go backwards in capabillities.

Roosters
03-20-2014, 01:36 PM
Shooting 2 44 mags with a heavy dose of 2400 sized where boolits free fall through the cyl (way undersized for this site) with no leading. Plus the stainless one is clean after 100 rounds instead of smoked. HF Red looks like the future to me. :bigsmyl2:

silverado
03-20-2014, 04:32 PM
I thought that at first too. Messed with it for well over 2 weeks until I discovered the Coolwhip (and no other!) container trick.

Use very little powder.....1/8 tsp to start
leave lid off so you can see how they are coating
use only 30 or so boolits at a time (depending on cal)
swirl gently (!) in circular motion and back and forth. DO NOT TUMBLE as that knocks off the powder when they collide.
When powder is all "coated up", add a tiny bit more and keep swirling until no more will stick to your boolits
If you have powder left in the bottom, you used too much
Do NOT dump...pick up with tweezers or a surgical clamp
Sit on NS foil
Bake 10 min @400F (season to taste!)
Once you get the hang of it, it goes pretty fast!

This method gives me boolits that are ~85% the quality of ESPC without dragging out the compressor and gun. Main thing is to get the tops of the grease grooves coated well. ESPC still gives a perfect coat every time and is the only method that works with HF black, but DT is a viable alternative for coating at night, as my oven and ESPC station are all outside!

And this is an excellent cost-effective method for those just starting out or who are "dead broke" which many seem to be under this Damocrap regime.

Have fun coating!

banger

I noticed if I coated my fingers in the pc I could pick up the boolits with no worries, my tweezers actually damaged the coating

Rushthezeppelin
03-20-2014, 04:37 PM
I noticed if I coated my fingers in the pc I could pick up the boolits with no worries, my tweezers actually damaged the coating

Good to know. Picking up mine with hemos was quite tedious since you have to grab them from the coolwhip tub at such an awkward angle. Then it was really easy for them to tip while placing them down. That and I did get thin spots where I picked them up, even with powder on the end of the hemos.

bangerjim
03-20-2014, 05:28 PM
I noticed if I coated my fingers in the pc I could pick up the boolits with no worries, my tweezers actually damaged the coating

I stick the hemostat jaws in the powder and it does the same thing. No dings where the jaws grab the boolits.

banger

bangerjim
03-20-2014, 05:28 PM
Good to know. Picking up mine with hemos was quite tedious since you have to grab them from the coolwhip tub at such an awkward angle. Then it was really easy for them to tip while placing them down. That and I did get thin spots where I picked them up, even with powder on the end of the hemos.

I use the curved ones and picking the up is a breeze!

banger

Beagle333
03-20-2014, 07:05 PM
Somebody on here (buried back in the early threads) posted a pic where they had made/bent/honed some really awesome needlenose pliers that curved around into two points that met, kinda like a small pair of ice tongs. I'd sure like to have a pair of those!

bangerjim
03-20-2014, 08:42 PM
Buy a cheeeeep pair of needle nose pliers at Harbor Freight....heat the jaws to bright red with a propane torch, let them cool in the air......and you will be able to bend them to the points you are referring to.

banger

Beagle333
03-20-2014, 08:49 PM
I did not know that. Thanks Banger! :-D



edit: Ahhhh! Here it is!!! Post #170
http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?209151-Powder-Coating-101-Electrostatic-Method/page9

popper
03-20-2014, 10:17 PM
Rush I used the hemostat on 90 30 cal rifle today, no marks at all but I was Spraying them so the coating may have been thicker. The DT worked for 30 or so then poor coating so I sprayed. Mine have a long handle so easy to set in the oven.

russs
03-20-2014, 11:25 PM
I use the thin vinyl disposable gloves to pick up the bullets and put them on parchment paper. Just pinch a little powder to start and it doesn't remove any PC from the bullets. The parchment paper is good for about a half dozen bakes and then I just turn it over for another half dozen bakes. Cheaper than Non stick foil.

BT8850
03-24-2014, 12:13 PM
Hello all, first post here, been a reader for a while. I'm brand new to reloading but have had success with the dry tumble pc method. Here is my process, its very similar to everyone elses. This is using the Lee 175g TC tumble lube .401 bullet and Sherwin Williams brand Powdura TGIC Powder color equipment blue.

Small plastic container, tumble 50-60 bullets in about a tablespoon of powder until evenly coated


Dump onto toaster oven tray that's been lined with aluminum foil and a piece of window screen (to keep bullets from sticking to foil)
use a toothpick to tip the bullets onto their bases
put tray into cold toaster oven and set dial to ~*375 for 12-15mins
When she dings I pull them out and let cool for a minute or two then drop them off the tray onto a dish towel to finish cooling (found that if let to completely cool on the tray, they stick to the screen)

Repeat for 2nd coat, sized with lee .401 die when completely cool

If tumbling less than 50 or so bullets, a third coat is usually needed for complete coverage

My bullets have passed the "smash test" and when fully coated and sized weigh about 177g, and are usually .599 +/- .003 or so in length

Fired in stock G20, stock G22, and Stock Beretta 96 with no leading, shoot just like a jacketed bullet. Was using Hogdon Longshot powder 6.5g for .40sw, 8.5g for 10mm.

I apologize if this was not the place for my first post but figured I'd share!

100391

100392

prickett
03-25-2014, 05:43 PM
Hello all, first post here, been a reader for a while. I'm brand new to reloading but have had success with the dry tumble pc method. Here is my process, its very similar to everyone elses. This is using the Lee 175g TC tumble lube .401 bullet and Sherwin Williams brand Powdura TGIC Powder color equipment blue.


Congrats, they look great. Could you please add your powder to the definitive powders sticky? It looks like it definitely works!

BT8850
03-26-2014, 07:44 AM
Thanks! Yes, I can do that. The only info I don't have is a place to purchase it, it was given to me by a friend to play with. It has worked pretty well. I also tried some yellow and grey sherwin williams brand, neither worked as well, grey was dull and uneven, yellow was very uneven after 3 coats, as well as taking more heat to cure which I wasn't too keen on.