.50 Cal REALs

[rodwha]

I bought a small number of cast 320 grn REALs to try out in my Lyman's Deerstalker. With 70 grns of 3F and a conical it shot waaaaay to the left. I tried a felt wad and the next two were quite close to each other and just a bit low.

I'd prefer not to need felt wads, and I've been dealing with Accurate Molds. I came up with the idea of having him create a projectile with similar dimensions until you get near the nose, where I'd want to increase the diameter of the last driving band or two, and give it a larger meplat.

Has anyone done such a thing to work in a deep grooved rifle? I'm wondering if that last band is ~.520 how hard it will be to seat it in a ~.502 bore. A solid whack on the short starter? Would that last band need to be the groove diameter or can it be fairly close and still work?

I've also been looking for 370 grn Lyman Maxi's to try, but cannot seem to find anyone who casts them. Anything else that ought to be considered?

[rodwha]

Anyone?

As is they push in fairly easy until the last band, which only takes a little effort. My concern is that if I take the last band from 0.510" to 0.518-0.520" that it'll be nearly impossible to seat without a mallet.

What would be the minimum diameter to seal up a ~.520" groove (~.502" X ~.520")?

Looking at my 50 yd target it appeared as though the REAL key-holed as it was oblong.

I figured I'd have Tom keep the overall length about the same (.709"), elongate the base so that it'll fit within a rubber speed loading tube (https://www.dixiegunworks.com/product_info.php?cPath=22_100_359&products_id=7717&osCsid=oee916j4thuqbf827q00d6t0j2) without gumming up the tube with bullet lube (Gatofeo #1), increase the second to last band from .507" to .510-.512", the final band from .510" to .517-.520", and increase the meplat to about .400" or so. I figure this will increase the weight from 320 grns to maybe 350 grns or so, which doesn't matter much to me.

I sure could buy a bunch of felt to punch wads with for the cost of a custom mold though!

[Lefty Red]

I was thinking the same thing, in a ways. My Omega likes larger caliber bullets in sabots. I found out it likes conicals just as well.

I liked the idea of having a special bullet designed by me, but decided against it.
I thought about a HB Minnie, and tried it and got so-so results.

I descided to go to paper patched 50 caliber bullets. Others have great results. Hope I do too.

Lefty

[rodwha]

The Omega is a shallow groove fast twist isn't it?

Why not cast heavy .451-2" bullets and keep it up with the sabots since you know they do well? Although experimenting is half of the fun! That is unless you are buying a bunch of molds you find out aren't for you!

[Lefty Red]

Never been one to "just things be." :)

The big, squatty .475" bullets grouped even better than the .451-4's. So I was thinking what if........
Like I have said before, if I don't run the bars so this is what I do with my time and money. :)

Plus, til I get enough saved up for my Sharps, this is going to have to sub for my buffalo rifle. :)

Lefty

[johnson1942]

red, it will more than sub for a sharps rifle. with up to 120 grains of blackhorn 209 powder and a 500 grain pp bullet it will be a lot more powerful than a 50/90 sharps. you look like a big man by your picture, you should be able to handle the recoil. also think about a 50/90 rollingblock from the texas manufacture. i dont know if some one took over his business after his tragic accident but if they did his rolling blocks were nicely priced and he loved the 50/90 sharps.

[Lefty Red]

'42,
That is the caliber I want for my Shiloh!

[Omnivore]

rodwha; I experimented with the Lees in my Deerstalker. Not so much with the 320s as the 250s, but I have both molds. They definately liked having a wad behind them.

I've tried the Hornady Great Plains bullets, which are more than 350 grains (385 IIRC) with no signs of key-holing. Your 350s definately aren't fitting right. I'd say try a bit more powder behind 'em, but that's just me. My Deerstalker shoots cloverleafs, and sometimes a bit bigger at 50 yards with the Real 250s, 90 grains Goex FF and a Wonderwad, but I haven't got near the accuracy with the Lee at 100 yards that I get with a patched ball. I still hunt with patched ball for that reason, and for Northwest white tail they penetrate more than enough.


What would be the minimum diameter to seal up a ~.520" groove (~.502" X ~.520")?

There are those who insist, and rather vehemently, that your soft lead will "bump up" under the G force of firing and fill the grooves tightly, no matter what, as long as they're big enough tpo start with that they don't fall out of the barrel. Others say you'll get gas cutting of the lead if it's not a tight seal to begin with. It's hard to imagine both being true at the same time.

[fouronesix]

I can't predict results, but can report results.

For comparison.

I have an older standard 50 cal T/C with 48" twist. Bore diameter is .500. Groove diameter is .513.

I have a 50 cal Lyman Maxi mold. With pure lead it casts: 364 gr. Bottom (base) and mid drive band diameters are .500. Top engraving band diameter is .503 and is .100 wide. Requires medium whack with starter but easily seats on powder with steady (easy) ramrod pressure.

Extremely accurate and stable out to 100 yards with 80 gr FFF blackpowder and a .050 card wad and lubed with Crisco and bore cleaned between shots.

Cast Maxis aren't hard to find if you're willing to pay a little for them. http://www.trackofthewolf.com/List/Item.aspx/129/1
Plus I see them fairly often in a lot of gun stores already boxed and lubed by T/C

[rodwha]

I've wondered if the T/C Maxi's are the same as the Lyman's. It seems the weights differ a bit.

I've seen cast Maxi's (who's???) at Track of The Wolf, and figured next time I buy stuff from them I'll buy some to try. But I usually buy from Grafs, and sometimes Dixie.

[Lefty Red]

Yep, Lyman and Lee both made molds for T/C in maxi styles for four or five different calibers.

[Jon]

Do you guys recommend the 320gr or the 250gr REAL bullet? I "assume" that it has better range than a round ball with better knockdown power. I'd be using it for target shooting as well as deer.

Thanks

[rodwha]

The length of the 320 grn REAL is about ideal for a 1:48" twist. I assume the 250 grn version is meant for slower twist RB twists.

A RB ought to be about ideal for medium sized game out to about 125 yds or so all depending on your load and ability (and wind). I usually read of passthroughs on deer out at 125 yds. A REAL would be overkill. But it would buck wind much better and may add a bit more distance.

[rodwha]

Opinions Wanted!

The REALs I have measure:
OAL: .709"
1st band: .496"
2nd: .505"
3rd: .507"
4th: .510"

The modifications I've considered:
OAL: N/A
1st: N/A
2nd: N/A
3rd: .510-.513"
4th: .517-.520"
Meplat: .400"

I'm certainly not wanting to need a mallet in the field to seat these, but I'd be OK with a smart whack of the palm on a short starter as it'd not likely be loaded many times over a weekend. But if the final band was nearly, if not, the groove diameter would it likely even seat with a palm strike?

Would it be necessary to be groove diameter? I'm somewhat doubting the thin band would obturate enough to fill the gap. But would it even be necessary to fill it completely? Maybe .518" would be plenty?

[mooman76]

The REALs should be coming out bigger. Maybe not good fill out. The top band should be like .517

[rodwha]

If this is so then it seems they still need a wad to shoot well. So either .517" still doesn't fill it well enough or it's just something that has to be done.

I've also been finding my cast RB's (.457 and .490") have been dropping a little small. I figured my lead wasn't pure (melted down C&B bullets), but I've been using some old lead pipe that I was told was pure, and I'm still getting similar results, which led me to believe maybe the molds weren't quite right. But maybe it's me...

[mooman76]

Lead with an alloy will come out larger than pure lead. Mine (RBs)always tend to run a little big, about .002 larger, but load and shoot good so no big deal too me.

[FergusonTO35]

My NEF Huntsman .50 has a fairly quick twist, 1:28 I think, but shoots the 250 grain REALs just fine. I was shooting it at 50 yards off shooting sticks today and keeping them all within 2" of each other, which is as good as many of my cartridge guns. I shoot a pretty mild charge of 60 grains Pyrodex RS, I think this helps the light boolit and fast twist to get along.

[white eagle]

this is my boolit of choice from Tom @ Accurate Molds
http://www.accuratemolds.com/bullet_detail.php?bullet=55-360A-D.png,
I shoot a 54 and let me tell you this design is an absolute tack driver in my Hawken
I use 90 gr black no wad just seat the REAL and go

[GREENCOUNTYPETE]

If i was going to make a custom mold , i would want something very close to the hornady great planes 410gr flat nose my NEF huntsman really liked that bullet , I took a few deer with that before i ran out of them

[Lever-man]

I have the 250 grain REALS and the Lyman 370 grain Maxi. I have shot both in a NEF Huntsman, Traditions Buckhunter, and a T/C Hawkin. Both give satisfactory accuracy for deer hunting, but I prefer the 370 grain Maxi for the ease of loading for a follow up shot if necessary. Cast the REAL bullet with anything except pure lead and the second shot will have to be hammered in with a sledge hammer, even pure lead REALS are not that easy to load. I'm sure that this will blasphemy to some, but the most accurate load in my T/C Hawkin (what I'm shooting now) is a PRB over 65 grains of Triple Seven.