Zamak 3 bullets

[Blam27]

Cast some zamak 3 bullets today for the first time. Wanted to see it it is a viable alternative to lead. I used one cavity of a 2-cavity Lee .312 155 2R aluminum mold. The pour and drop were quick, but the bullets looked good. I got 9 of 46 that are acceptable to shoot. They measured .310 - .312". The unacceptable ones were out of round.8810888109

They weighed 95-98 grains.

I want to load them for my Mosin 91/30. My question is: Should I select a powder based on weight?

[runfiverun]

I'd go with the powder selection based on the boolit style.
the weight will only make a slight difference in velocity.

I'm curious as to the out of roundness.
is it from temp, alloy shrinkage ??
wondering if a pressure pour and more/less mold temp might help.

[rattletrap1970]

They are pretty

[mikeym1a]

I've been wondering about zinc boolits. Interesting article on Wiki about the Zamac - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zamak.

[Blam27]

I'm not sure what caused the out of roundness. It took a while to get it up to temperature. I started casting at 770F, which seemed to be as high as my furnace could reach. May have been that the halves were misaligned, as the high points are at the mating line. They are bhn 97 and will not go through a sizer. I have ordered a iron mold in a 200 grain bullet style. Have also ordered zamak 8, which should flow better.

[geargnasher]

Try making a vibrating mould rest under the pot. Saw a reject in half and check for "coring", could be part of the uneven diameter issue.

Gear

[runfiverun]

sounds like the halves are shifted slightly.

I'd try getting the mold up and hot too it would definitely help.
bhn 97??? that's harder than copper airc.

[Trelan]

Just a quick question from new caster....what would you use this boolit for??? I know at this size you can push a boolit rather fast, but is it just for the fun of using zinc?

[Harter66]

Trelan ,
the reason is to beat the lead restrictions ,and to be ready if they come to your state. See california's madness.

[dnepr]

They look good , I am setting my zinc wheel weights aside for something like this , I am wondering how fast they could be driven ,

[Nobade]

Keep in mind that molten Zamak will dissolve aluminum. That Lee mould won't last long using it that way.

-Nobade

[country gent]

Should lighten the recoil a bunch with the lighter weight. Some plaed with the zinc bullets for ISPC major loads for awhile but accuracy was never really on par with lead.

[xacex]

What about using steel or brass molds? Is lube still necessary?

[runfiverun]

steel would probably be best, I have seen zinc boolits shot without lube before.
but I'd be more inclined to add some type to the boolit.
maybe a combination of this alloy and powder coating would be the ticket to some hyper velocity shooting.

[Old Dawg]

The loading data that comes with Zee bullets in a .357 magnum shows 1666 fps for a 97 gr. SWC that outwardly resembles typical 158 gr lead SWC. ME 588 fp. Load is 6.9 gr. Bullseye. Barrel length not stated. Pressure was given as 33,699 psi. The fact that your results with a nominal 155 gr. mould weighs 95-98 grain shows that Zee Bullets 97 gr weight would equate very closely with a 158 grain bullet.

[Doc_Stihl]

What kind of temperature do you need to get Zamak to flow?

[Blam27]

It began to flow at 715F, but was thick. At 770F it looked more like lead, but I had to pour quickly to avoid plugging the ladle tit. Had to use drill shavings to get the melt started which took a long time to reach temperature. I shot 5 strings at 20, 21, 22, 23, and 24 grains of IMR 4227 at 50 yards. I got the best group (2.5") with 20 grains. Above that powder charge the shots got progressively wilder and higher. The 20 gr. shots were 2 inches higher than the same bullet in lead shot a week ago with 22.5 grains of 4227. Those grouped at 2". The bullets were fired without gas checks and without lube, and the barrel was clean after firing.

[Grump]

Bleh, I'm in the Wikipedia article and they don't describe Zamak 8.

Off to Google I guess...


I'm not sure what caused the out of roundness. It took a while to get it up to temperature. I started casting at 770F, which seemed to be as high as my furnace could reach. May have been that the halves were misaligned, as the high points are at the mating line. They are bhn 97 and will not go through a sizer. I have ordered a iron mold in a 200 grain bullet style. Have also ordered zamak 8, which should flow better.

[Blam27]

rotometals.com sells zamak 8 by the 4 lb. bar. Turn out that zamak 3/8 bullets cost less than half of what lead cost.

[Grump]

Okay, I'm back after three or four dead ends.

This site: http://www.interstate-screw.com/zamak.html
puts the shrinkage of Z-8 at 1/8-inch per foot, rather than the .006 inches per inch described for the other alloys. That calculates if I'm punching the right numbers as .0104 and some sundry tiny remnants, significantly more shrinkage than Z-3.

So your next casting, with Zamak-8, might fall out of the moulds easier but also might be more wonky dimensionally.

No, I haven't compared this with where pure Pb and wheelweights and Linotype alloy fall in the shrinkage department. Yet.

[AlaskanGuy]

I wonder how tuff the bullets cast with Zamak 3/8 would be... Hardness is one thing, and speed is another, but how would a bullet cast with a Lyman 375449 penetrate say, a 6x6 pressure treated chunk of wood? Just trying to get a handle on how it would compare to my normal alloy... Might be fun to try out...

[AlaskanGuy]

Anybody else try this Zamak alloy?

[Blam27]

Got a RCBS .308-200-SILH iron mold and cast some zamak 3 and zamak 8 bullets today. They dropped out at .310-.311. The zamak 8 poured a little easier than zamak 3. Was only able to pour 1 cavity, as it cools rapidly. They weighed 125 grains. I hope to shoot both soon, with checks. In the 1st photo, the zamak 3 is to the left, with zamak 8 to the right. Zamak 8 is a little brighter. 8867388674

[Blam27]

Shot the above zamak 3 and zamak 8 bullets at 50 yards, open sights in my 03A3, with 26-30 gr. of 4227 in 5 strings. Got a 1" grouping at 28 gr. (~2200 fps) and 1.3" at 26 gr (~2040 fps). Could not tell the difference between zamak 3 & 8 bullets. They shoot as well as lead.

[Old Dawg]

Zinc will be more difficult to cast than lead using traditional casting techniques. Using modern production die casting equipment it is easy to cast precision bullets from zinc alloys. One commercial caster has patented a process that combines casting/rotary swaging that is capable, IIRC, of .0001 precision in diameters.

As long as the impact velocity remains high enough zinc is quite capable of good penetration. Ross Seyfried once published an article on loading the .458 Winchester with zinc bullets. He reported that they easily penetrated the webs of railroad rails. Zamak alloys have about the same tensile strength as mild construction steel. They do not deform against wood, etc. and should have about the same penetration as a mild steel core bullet with the same sectional density at equal velocities.

[Thompsoncustom]

Ive done a fair amount of zamak 3 casting and it has both less and more penetration, let me explain.

My lee 125 mold cast at 80gr's and my 102gr mold around 60gr's. Now since the bullets are so light weight you can push the 60gr bullet to 1700fps out of a handgun but the speed drops off quicker and I don't think they penetrate things like wood and flesh as deep as a heavy lead bullet.

On the other hand they work way better against steel targets because of there increased hardness and speed, I was able to dent the side of my bullet trap with a 60gr zinc bullet shot from my glock 17. I think it's 3/8in thick.

I would like to try casting zamak 2 but need a better heating setup first. The downside of zamak to is your getting close to a hardness of 130 brinell so I'm guessing the barrel life has to be shorten with every zinc bullet.

[fcvan]

I've been thinking this would be an interesting project. I would bet a mold with a built in sprue hole, like the old time round ball molds, would mean mold and drop, cut the spues off later. I'd likely use my mini cut-off saw. Powder coat (to keep the Zamak from actually contacting the bore) and shoot. I would think the Lee 309-230 5R for the 300 blk would go 140-145 ish and shoot ok to 100 yards or so. could be good fun

[Four-Sixty]

How long before someone starts casting up Zamak tips that can be inserted into heavy hollow point boolits?

[Thompsoncustom]

I've done the math with quickload and this is one of the reason I've been thinking of reloading for 7.62x54r. A 124gr ak mold should drop a 80gr bullet that can be pushed out of my 91/30 just over 4000FPS, I was planing on paper paper to keep the bore from being (zinced) up. I bet a 130brinell bullet doing 4000fps will really punch through some steel.

[rattletrap1970]

Problem is ranges may not let you shoot them because of the potential velocities, who knows about ricochet potential and you poison the range lead. If you are one of the guys like me who gets range lead you'd have to be very careful of your smelt temp.

[Blam27]

Cast some pure zinc bullets from the same mold. They dropped out at .310 and weighed 129 grains. These were much easier to cast than zamak 3 or 8. They took 4-5 sec. to solidify in the mold. The hardness is 30-32 Bhn. The pure (99.8%) zinc would make good round ball bullets.91729

[AlaskanGuy]

This stuff really interests me.... There is so much zinc around here, folks use it on their boats to inhibit corrosion. Every year, they change them even if they dont need to cuz they dont want to be bothered with re welding them durring the season.... There are tons of them around the boat haul out... I have started saving the better ones, and am going to start smelting them into ingots for long term storage and development....

Lets keep this thread going.. It looks promising....

AG

[Janoosh]

Wouldn't the lighter zinc boolit have less downrange velocity? I'm asking about 2-3 hundred yards. And then would penetration then be compromised? Sounds great for target shooting. But hunting requires penetration.
Second...since the Zamak and all zinc boolits are very hard, could loading data be used for jaxketed bullets?. Curious about all this, and it's all very interesting.
Didn't Lakeville arms use the zinc washer on their cast boolits? I believe he advertised the self lubricating properties of zinc. Coating the bore called "sheardizing", or something like that.
Lots of ideas for thought here.

[AlaskanGuy]

Yea... I am gunna start smelting zinc ingots soon as i can... It may be years down the road, but hey, no problem for a good horder.... :P

[swheeler]

Karl Bosselmann wrote an article "Shooting Zinc In Big Bores" in the 12th edition of Handloaders Digest-1990. Veral helped in testing and supplied molds. Fluxing is done with salicylic acid- aspirin.

[whisler]

I believe that you will find that aspirin is acetylsalicylic acid. Different animal.

[AlaskanGuy]

Does anybody have a link or a scan of that aritcle????? Shooting Zinc In Big Bores ??? From the handloaders digest that was referred to in Post 35????????????? Cant find it anywhere...

[swheeler]

I believe that you will find that aspirin is acetylsalicylic acid. Different animal.

Must not make any difference to the animal zinc. "Fluxing is done with salicylic acid(aspirin tablets can be used)1- teaspoonful for every 10-to 20 pound melting pot, or with a flux named D-Flux."

[swheeler]

Does anybody have a link or a scan of that aritcle????? Shooting Zinc In Big Bores ??? From the handloaders digest that was referred to in Post 35????????????? Cant find it anywhere...

AK guy try online, I can't scan it right now. The 204 gr .458 bullets at 3150 fps sounds interesting? Looks as if zamak bullets were sold commercially from late 1940's till mid 50's by several firms.

[Captain Capsize]

If bore wear is an issue wouldn't copper electroplating be the answer? It is very easy to do as most of us already know.

[AlaskanGuy]

Well, i tried to make ingots today to store some zinc.... Temp was about 20f in the shop, and after burning a bunch of propane, i got nowhere.... I was not able to get it hot enough to get it melting good enough to pour dang it all.... I do NOT want to use my lee pot to smelt ingots..... Looks like i am gunna have to wait till it gets warmer.... Or get a burner that gives a hotter btu with propane.... I dont have a turkey fryer, and no access to one...

AG

[swheeler]

If bore wear is an issue wouldn't copper electroplating be the answer? It is very easy to do as most of us already know.

Copper Clad Super Velocity Machine Cast Alloy Bullets- Western Alloy Company

[Old Dawg]

Penetration should depend on momentum density [sectional density x velocity] at time of impact. The range would decrease rapidly because of low BC caused by low weights but if the impact momentum were the same penetration should be about the same. The need to increase velocity to offset lesser weights might increase cavitation. Most game is not killed at 600+ yards anyway. Just get closer.

[mrbill2]

I built the REIL burner and used it to melt aluminum. That should melt your zinc. Runs on propane.
http://ronreil.abana.org/design1.shtml#Reil



Well, i tried to make ingots today to store some zinc.... Temp was about 20f in the shop, and after burning a bunch of propane, i got nowhere.... I was not able to get it hot enough to get it melting good enough to pour dang it all.... I do NOT want to use my lee pot to smelt ingots..... Looks like i am gunna have to wait till it gets warmer.... Or get a burner that gives a hotter btu with propane.... I dont have a turkey fryer, and no access to one...

AG

[Boolseye]

Why are ya melting down yer Hi-Points? :kidding:

[AlaskanGuy]

Thanks so much Mr.bill..... I am going to build one of those burners, maybe 2 or 3... I love the forging stuff....

AG