357 Mold Advice Please

[mj2evans]

So its finally time to set up to cast for 357 mag (been soo focused on 45 ACP and 45 Colt this was not a priority). I think I am done with tumble lube and see a Lyman 450 in my future so only traditional lube designs. I was looking at NOE site and like both a 168g SWC but also see a 160g WFN. I am looking at plain base for shooting in a S&W 686 and Ruger GP100 with Blue Dot and limited 2400 for possible hunting. Might end up with a 357 lever (Rossi) at some point and have heard that some WFN don't cycle well? Likely would try bullet in a 35 Rem for plinking. Is it just luck of the draw if my revolvers will shoot SWC or WFN better? Both guns have factory forcing cone angle (but I think I will cut to 11 degrees) and 686 had chamber throats reamed to 0.3585 while a 358 bullet will just slide through the Ruger chamber throats.

[paul h]

While I have a great deal of respect for Elmer Keith and his classic SWC design, IMHO and experience, I'd say you have better odds of getting top accuracy from an ogival wadcutter, WFN etc than from a SWC. I'd say given the success I and others have had with it, and the modest price, start with a Lee 158 rf six cavity mold. It should shoot very well out of all of your guns and it's easy enough to convert it to a plain base design with a .358" chucking reamer in a drill press.

[Jeff H]

.....I'd say given the success I and others have had with it, and the modest price, start with a Lee 158 rf six cavity mold. It should shoot very well out of all of your guns and it's easy enough to convert it to a plain base design with a .358" chucking reamer in a drill press.

I agree with paul h on that bullet being a great all-'round .357 bullet. For what they cost, adding the LEE 125 RF and 158 TL SWC is within reach as well and all three very good and useful .357s, which if not eventually producing a "favorite," still always offering a very useful basic assortment of .357s without having a lot of money invested. In the event you add other ,357s to your battery in the future, you are likely to find that one of these moulds will serve you well. I shoot all three in a Rossi 92 lever and they all work better (functioning and accuracy) than other otherwise old, tried and true designs. I have also shot all three extensively in a 3" Ruger SP101 and 2" and 3" Charter Undercovers.

[KYCaster]

Take a look at a 180 gr. FP. NOE has a good one.

Jerry

[Bzcraig]

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?182437-Mihec-GC-or-PB-358-165RF-Group-Buy

This is a current group buy for a Mihec brass mold. I have NOE molds and really like them but this group buy might give you some additional choices.

[harley45]

I love my NOE 180wfn GC works well in all my rifles and revolvers

[mj2evans]

Thanks for all the input. The group buy does look interesting. Do I need a GC for shooting in a rifle? Just thinking forward as I really think I will end up with a lever gun in 357. I really don't try to get the last 50 fps out of a round and would like to avoid GC for "normal" pistol practice.

[Jeff H]

Thanks for all the input. The group buy does look interesting. Do I need a GC for shooting in a rifle? Just thinking forward as I really think I will end up with a lever gun in 357. I really don't try to get the last 50 fps out of a round and would like to avoid GC for "normal" pistol practice.

I don't use them but I also don't push them to their limits either.

[Bzcraig]

Thanks for all the input. The group buy does look interesting. Do I need a GC for shooting in a rifle? Just thinking forward as I really think I will end up with a lever gun in 357. I really don't try to get the last 50 fps out of a round and would like to avoid GC for "normal" pistol practice.

Do some searching around the site to validate this yourself but when I asked a similar question the consensus was plain based up to 1600fps. I suppose you could always gas check a plain based boolit if you felt it necessary.

[paul h]

Do I need a GC for shooting in a rifle? Just thinking forward as I really think I will end up with a lever gun in 357

That is such a simple question, and as with most things cast bullets the answer is it depends.

You absolutely don't need a gas check for any 35 caliber rifle. However you should be aware that gas checks allow you to be more flexible with your alloy choice i.e. you can use a softer alloy w/o leading, for highest velocities it prevents leading, and to an extent gas checks can make for a more accurate bullet and a bullet you can more easily work up a load for. It really comes down to your use. For plinking and small game hunting, I'd opt for a plainbase bullet in 125-160 gr. For big game hunting I'd opt for a 180-200 gr gc bullet. I shot a lot of plainbase 158's through my 35 whelen, as well as a bunch of gas checked 200's. They each worked very well, but had different roles.

[9.3X62AL]

Only ONE mould design for the 357 Mag revolver?? That would be like having one dress shirt or one pair of blue jeans. Last time I counted, there were 8 38/357 moulds on hand, and 5 more that could be pressed into service if need be. ONE 357 mould......the VERY idea.......

[Bret4207]

If you're going to get just one mould for a revolver and rifle it's pretty hard to beat the 358156. It simply works.

[9.3X62AL]

If you're going to get just one mould for a revolver and rifle it's pretty hard to beat the 358156. It simply works.

This was my first 357 Magnum-specific mould, though for the 38 Special the #358477 and #358432 arrived ahead of it. Earlier in this hobby work (late 70s into the mid-80s) I used jacketed bullets in my Magnum revolvers. J-words seemed to be a lot more reasonably-priced back then. Once I started with #358156 and found that it could meet or beat out j-word accuracy in my 357s, all of the MagRevs got gas-checked SWCs to play with for full-tilt loadings. Fast-forward to the present, and now Hornady gas checks aren't a whole lot less money than were Hornady jacketed bullets for the 357s back in the early 80s. I really should MAKE gas checks, but I'm too bloomin' lazy I suppose. I know, inflation--metals pricing--yadda yadda--it still galls me. And Steve Hornady posits that buyers are the problem as far as components shortages are concerned, too. Whatever, dude.

[mainiac]

that noe 168 ,,i think that is the copy of a lyman 358429??? If so,then you wont be able to crimp in the crimp groove,cause they will be to long for the 686 cylinder.Also, the 429 is my favorite .357 boolit,and i shoot it in a marlin rifle.That rifle wont feed that boolit crimped in the groove. So,i crimp into the middle of the front drive band,,then it will run in any gun i shoot it in...Something to ponder...

[357maximum]

I could feed every 357 I own with the Glenn Larsen C-358-180 that has been copied to death in the group buys, but I am a hunter 1st, a plinker/target shooter second.

One mold for all 357's....that would be just criminal...I agree with Al on this one. I have like 15 - 357 molds and could use a few more. :lol:

[gussiegoins2]

I have the Noe 160 WFN mold 4 banger with HP pins ( I don't use the pins much) and I don't use it much. I have other Noe molds I love so its not that. It just not as accurate or user friendly as my Accurate Mold 358170K. I know their website says its for 38 special only coz it is over OAL but it fits in both my Ruger blackhawk and 686 just fine using the bullet crimp groove. This is a Keith bullet. When I say more accurate that has just been for me in my guns. More accurate as in a whole lot more accurate in both pistols. A third the group size. Maybe I need to work more with the 160 WFP but the 358170K has worked with any powder I have thrown at , hot or mild. Also that mold throws bullets better than any of the dozen molds I use. All of my Accurate molds throw great. Group buys are good if you want a particular that isn't available as a stock item, but they can take 6-12 months to get your mold. If the 170 gr. is too heavy/long for you he also has a 358158K. Just my opinion and experience. Hope it helps.

[Baja_Traveler]

I have the NOE 360 180 WFN mold, and while it shoots reasonably accurate out of my Rossi 92, the bullet is a bit too heavy for really good accuracy. I wouldn't hesitate to use it for hunting out to 75, 100 yards with a supported rifle - but the 158gr and lighter bullets shoot much tighter groups...

[cbrick]

If I had but one mold for ANY caliber that I load for and shoot I wouldn't be able to sleep at night. Thinking about that maybe that's why I'm both broke half the time and single. But I guess ya gotta start someplace.

What is the twist on the Rossi 357? I typically shoot heavy for caliber boolits in the 357 up to 190+ gr. and the comment on 180 being to heavy for accuracy was a bit of an eye opener.

Recommending a single mold for the 357 in both revolver and rifle is pretty tough. What are the typical distances, what are the targets and then also a hunting round, there are so many possible good choices. I think if it has to be both a handgun plinker and a possible rifle hunting round I would opt for a heavier, FP gas check design that could be loaded down and still cover the upper end. One mold, would be like trying to load ammo with my hands tied behind my back. :veryconfu

Rick

[paul h]

If I had to have a single mold for a 357 pistol/rifle it would be the Mihec 359640. It drops 158 gr hp's and 170 gr fp's. I would go with the plainbase design, I have had no leading with the stiffest charges of H-110 in my 357 Blackhawk. You should be able to load it to 1200-1300 fps in a strong sixgun and 1500+ fps in a rifle. It has dual crimp grooves so you should have no problem finding a length to load it to in a variety of cylinders.

To me the 158-170 gr range is the sweet point of the 357, not too heavy, not to light and typically the most accurate.

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=78634&stc=1&d=1375987860

[shorty500M]

i keep my .357/.38 mold selection pretty simple- have a 6banger wadcutter for mild loads, the old 358429 for standard thru heavy loads and a 190TCgc for deep penetration

[9.3X62AL]

The round flatnose profile does a lot of good things for a shooter. It lends itself to levergun feeding--it lacks the squared shoulder of the SWC design and the radiused nose allows a boolit to self-center more readily in a revolver's forcing cone. The flatnose provides the "crush cavity" in Jello that the Facklerites In Labcoats get all drippy about.

Some years back, I got one of the 180 grain gas-checked round flatnose moulds 357 Maximum spoke of. I have cast 40 of these as soft-points, and have 20 loaded into ammunition. There are 80 more of homogenous alloy (92/6/2) loaded to rated-R pressures for my Ruger Bishawk--1425 to 1450 FPS from its 7.5" barrel. Exhilarating, but the Bishawk is the only wheelgun that will see them. They are superbly accurate in whatever twist the Bishawk comes with.

Is the 180 grain RFN the ONLY or the BEST mould design for the 357 Magnum? Not for me--but it is one I would strongly prefer to not be without, esp. if rifle work was on the agenda.

[Mr Peabody]

I vote for the NOE 180gr WFN.

[MtGun44]

I've gotten good results with the Lee 358 158 RF (bb design) in several .357s at high
velocities, and with the 358429 at full power, too.

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=50444&d=1244513091

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=50446&d=1244513448

Ruger Security Six 6" bbl SS gives similar results.

Bill

[Adam10mm]

I could feed every 357 I own with the Glenn Larsen C-358-180 that has been copied to death in the group buys, but I am a hunter 1st, a plinker/target shooter second.

One mold for all 357's....that would be just criminal...I agree with Al on this one. I have like 15 - 357 molds and could use a few more. :lol:
I've got a clone of that mold myself. The NEI 357-180 version in a 4 cavity. I kept that mold after I got rid of my GP100 because that was my "one" bullet. I'm not a paper shooter and any practice I needed to hone my skills could be done with the same bullet. I cast and handload so cost is really negligible, but if I was feeling ultra cheap, I'd just forego the copper diaper. Cost difference between 158gr SWCs and a 180gr RFN with no diaper is $13.50/K versus $15.50/K. I'm not going to concern myself with $2/K at this point. If I was shooting 100,000 of them a year, $200 is nearly 2 cases of primers and the savings would be practical. If I get back into the .357 Magnum, I won't need for another bullet. That's my "one".

[Good Cheer]

As was said above, 358156. It is the best all around design for the .357. Mold it sloppy soft for an expanding hunting boolit and rely upon the gas check to take up the slack. Or load it real mild and shoot the eyes out of jack rabbits with your carbine. Cast it hard, cast it soft, shoot 'em hard, shoot 'em oft'.
But if a squirrel drops a pine cone and steps forward as you squeeze off you're gonna be real disappointed.

[sniper]

I have had good luck with the RCBS 150gr. SWC, as well as the obsolete SWC 162gr. GC. I think that almost any RNFP design in the 150-160 gr. range would be a winner. I don't load my cast boolits hell-for-stout nowadays...I think ~1,000 fps. gives about all that can be reasonably expected from a cast boolit...anything over that is mostly noise and muzzle flash. But, that's just me.