45 70 crimp

[ryan28]

I have read on here that some use a 45 colt sizing die if a taper crimp die isn't on hand to close an expanded case mouth on a loaded cartridge.
What is the difference between a 45/70 sizer die, and the 45 colt for this application? And would a taper crimp die be better than the 45 colt die?

[grampa243]

get a redding taper crimp die. it's worth it.

the 45 colt might size down your boolits and make a mess as they are slightly smaller.

[Don McDowell]

The 45 colt die will work, but it's not as repeatable and consistant as the taper crimp die from Lyman would be.

['74 sharps]

I use the fl sizing die that came with the RCBS set adjusted to just remove the flare.

[Silver Jack Hammer]

New to the .45-70 here, my RCBS .45-70 dies came with a roll crimp die. I just bought a Lyman taper crimp die for about $30.00, the RCBS taper crimp die was about $100.00. I didn't check on the Redding taper crimp die, wish I would have. My first batch of boolits were crimped with the sizer die, I just took the bell out of the brass, I worked but it was not how the die was designed nor do I recommend this practice. All my .45 Colt dies are roll crimp.

[John Boy]

if a taper crimp die isn't on hand to close an expanded case mouth on a loaded cartridge.No crimping die is required or necessary. Just put the reload in the FL sizing die - gently raise the round a short distance and the bell on the case will be straightened ... which is all that is needed. Not a normal crimped case

[d garfield]

I just crimp with my seating die. I use Lyman 3 die set.

[Lead pot]

What is the difference between a 45/70 sizer die, and the 45 colt for this application? And would a taper crimp die be better than the 45 colt die?

The .45-70 takes a .458 bullet and the .45 colt takes a .454 or +-

[Don McDowell]

Thing is tho the sammi spec casediameter on both the 45 colt and the 45-70 is .480.:lol:

[ryan28]

Thing is tho the sammi spec casediameter on both the 45 colt and the 45-70 is .480.:lol:

That's what I was wondering about too. Is the 45 colt sizer tapered more than the 45 70? With the RP brass I have been using, I didn't need to do any closing of the case mouth, but with the new Starline I have to, or it won't chamber. The redding die I have is a roll crimp, so I won't use that. I'll probably get a taper crimp.

[Don McDowell]

Just set you seating die to enough crimp to take the flare out of the case mouth. Simple to do, easy and no need to buy more dies and add another step.

[grampa243]

you need a good crimp for a lever gun. and with some powder you need a good crimp to get the right burn.

so i crimp even for my T/C encore.

[Kenny Wasserburger]

If your shooting BP then Crimping on a cast bullet just does damage to said bullet. If your shooting smokless well then! thats a different kettle of fish, Crimp still damages the cast bullet load it hard into the lands with Smokless get much the same effect as the crimp--no bullet damage. Jacketed and Smokless--crimp em.

With BP as Don and others mention use the sizer and take the flair off all thats needed or set your seater to do the same just do not do the roll crimp.

KW
The Lunger

[4719dave]

I don't think my tomb stone hunks of lead aren't going like not being crimped in my 4570 GST , Haven't loaded in awhile but pretty sure I put a pretty good crimp using that lever gun .

[13Echo]

For my Sharps with bullets cast to fit the rifle I just iron out the flare. For my Trapdoor Springfields a crimp seems necessary for the 405gr carbine loads but not so necessary for the 500gr rifle loads. Seems to have to do with getting enough pressure from the powder charge and sufficient inertia from the bullet to get adequate bump up to fill the large Springfield bore. I suspect a crimp would be a good idea for a rifle with a tubular magazine.

Jerry Liles

[Don McDowell]

Interesting historical note, crimp came about with the advent of smokeless powder, up until that time the bullet rested on the powder charge and neck tension was sufficient to hold the bullet in place. The first efforts at crimp were to cannelure the case where the base of the bullet should be, there are still some 38 special cases made that way.
Later they started using the crimp on the case mouths.

[Silver Jack Hammer]

I'm loading the 405 gr for the Sharps but the black powder charge is compressed so it would load in a tubular magazine without any chance of the boolit moving.

[Kenny Wasserburger]

Dave is that with BP or smokeless loads in your lever gun? I ask because as Don mentioned Crimp did not come into use untill Smokless loads and jacketed bullets.

KW
THe Lunger

[bigted]

it is true for the lever's. I use both cast greasers and paperpatch boolits in my marlins AND with blackpowder ... no crimp necessary. I just size the case for a snug case mouth fit and bell the mouth enough to start the boolit without shaving lead or messing up my patch. then I "iron" off the bell mouth with the size die ... but just to iron the bell and NOT size the case/boolit.

when I size the case I size just enough to provide from .0005 or .001 inch smaller then the boolit diameter ...[for a tighter grip on the boolit]... the reason for the no need for a crimp is that the boolit will and does rest on the compressed powder and the slight hammering they take from recoil will not jack them into the case as they cant displace the powder to move around.

easy cheesy !!!

as Don and Kenny mention ... smokeless is way different and will require a crimp as there is no powder to rest against most of the time. and when you do have a 100% smokless load ... you don't want to compress it too much as this will send the pressure sky high in many cases.

[Lead pot]

Interesting historical note, crimp came about with the advent of smokeless powder, up until that time the bullet rested on the powder charge and neck tension was sufficient to hold the bullet in place. The first efforts at crimp were to cannelure the case where the base of the bullet should be, there are still some 38 special cases made that way.
Later they started using the crimp on the case mouths.

http://i704.photobucket.com/albums/ww43/Kurtalt/th_40-82WCFumcSolid.jpg (http://s704.photobucket.com/user/Kurtalt/media/40-82WCFumcSolid.jpg.html)

[Don McDowell]

Kurt that's what I'm talkin bout.:!:
I've got a 50-110 exress with a 22 case in the nose, that has that crimp as well.

[Brad Phillips]

My 45-70's (457125) are loaded with compressed black and a lube cookie. I just smooth out the bell, too slip into a Ped. sharps.

[13Echo]

Actually the military loads for the .45-70 were crimped. This was apparently to help make the loaded round waterproof.

Jerry Liles

[4719dave]

smokeless
Dave is that with BP or smokeless loads in your lever gun? I ask because as Don mentioned Crimp did not come into use untill Smokless loads and jacketed bullets.

KW
THe Lunger

[Kenny Wasserburger]

Yeah Thats what I kinda figured, this is a black powder forum, if you read my first post I said smokless is different kettle of fish.

Kenny W.
The Lunger

[Wally]

I have one as well ....well worth having one IMHO. While you can use the roll crimper with the RCBS/Lyman dies, more often than not the case lengths vary just a bit, so some are crimped too much and with others, not enough...The Taper Crimp dies solves that problem. Also, if you use different brands of brass, the crimp will also vary.


get a redding taper crimp die. it's worth it.

the 45 colt might size down your boolits and make a mess as they are slightly smaller.

[kokomokid]

If you don't want a crimp get Buckshot to make you a bullet sizer just smaller than your chamber to take the bell down. LB

[Col4570]

I do,nt Crimp my 45.70 BP Rounds anymore for single shot rifles.I compress with a card then thumb fit the lubed Bullet.My cases last a long time and once fireformed they do not come in contact with my Press.OK for single shot but not for Magazine Rifles.

[BruceB]

I do,nt Crimp my 45.70 BP Rounds anymore for single shot rifles.I compress with a card then thumb fit the lubed Bullet.My cases last a long time and once fireformed they do not come in contact with my Press.OK for single shot but not for Magazine Rifles.

This is an interesting concept. I foresee an upcoming project for my Shiloh .45-70.

How is the security of the bullets in transport, such as in a belt or bandolier? Are you confident that they will withstand such handling?

[Col4570]

BruceB,I transport my rounds in a box.I guess if you want to carry in a belt make sure your bullets are sized to exactly go in tight.I used to get annoyed when those tiny cracks started to appear after several crimped loadings.It is worth the inconvenience having to check if the rounds are still together,when you consider the cost of Brass these days.A tight card over the powder will keep it in.
Regards.

[Dutch Spencer]

Just recently purchased a used Pedersoli Long Range Sharps 45/70 and have experience in loading smokless 45/70 for a Marlin Lever. I plan eventually on making the switch over to Black Powder but for now will stick with smokless. I use the 45/70 RCBS die set with no taper crimp die just roll crimp included. My question is it appears that I can just run the shell into the FL sizing die enough to taper the flare or bell mouth not use the roll crimp even though I am using Smokless powder is this a correct assumption on my part?