The 45/70 out to 300 - 400 yards

[Dogmann]

Is the 45/70 when loaded with hot +P cast 45/70 bullets and shot out of a strong action like a Ruger No.1- capable of clean DRT kills on white tails out to 300/400 yards? Or is 300/400 yards too far?

[Nrut]

You can easily kill at those ranges at BP velocities..
No need to beat yourself to death..
The trick is to get a accurate load then learn how to use your sighting system and practice at those ranges..
So it comes down to your ability to make a good hit at those ranges not the rifle/loads ability..

http://www.shilohrifle.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=8711&highlight=africa

http://www.shilohrifle.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=11261&highlight=zebra

The fellow in those links, rdnck posts here as sharpsguy ..

[Lead Fred]

Anything inside of 550 yards is already on the table around here.
You do have to wait a few seconds for the impact, but it sure is worth it.

My rounds do not ever exceed 1600fps, no need for +p anything with a 45/70

[NSB]

Good advice so far. Do yourself a favor and cheat a little....get a good laser range finder. Once you know the bullet drop with your load you can adjust for the distance. If the gun/load is capable of shooting good groups at that distance you don't need shoulder busting loads to kill with the 45-70.

[Digital Dan]

Is the 45/70 when loaded with hot +P cast 45/70 bullets and shot out of a strong action like a Ruger No.1- capable of clean DRT kills on white tails out to 300/400 yards? Or is 300/400 yards too far?

You probably should ask a buffalo about that. 'Course they probably didn't have strong actions back then, whatever that means.

Might help too if you learnt the drop and windage tables for whatever bullet you use.

[Doc_Stihl]

16 million buffalo would say soft cast lead at Black Powder velocities is enough.

[4719dave]

just opened rifle in the ny hunting zone I hunt in OH YA 45/70 here we come ..............need to beat your self up op...

[44man]

DRT is rare with anything anyway. Depends on what you hit.
The 45-70 has a lot of drop so you need very good sight settings as range changes. It sure has enough power and a heavy boolit is better.
The secret to the 45-70 is to shoot---and shoot some more. Write everything down and know the ranges. Paper figures from books will never match what you have.

[Larry Gibson]

Most buffler hunters weren't the great marksman we romanticise them out to be. Most buffler hunters (who weren't "runners") liked to get within 200 - 300 yards of a herd so they could kill a lot fewer than we think. If they killed a lot then their skinners couldn't keep up and the hides would rot or be torn up by wolves, coyotes and bears before they could skin it. If left to long before skinning the hair would "slip" and the hide was ruined. They simply shot "the buff" and many did not want a DRT shot but preferred the buff to wander a bit and just lay down. That way the heard wasn't spooked. Yes there were a few good long range shots among the buffler hunters but they were rare. A good long range shot back then had to have a good rifle, good sights, good ammunition and know how to use them. Some did practice at long range shooting but most didn't, just got close........Truth be told most used the barrel mounted rear sight not a tang rear sight and thus the ranges were shorter and accuracy when shooting at the whole buffler was acceptable.........But then that is not how we, the nickel/dime books of yesteryear, the fiction books, the movies and tv romanticize them.......Maybe that's better than the reality.........

As to the question I've done quite a bit of 45-70 medium range (300 - 600 yards) with my Siamese Mauser 450-40-70........ok, it's a 45-70. with 400 gr cast at +P+ velocities (2200 - 2300 fps). It has a scope on it and even then correct range estimation would be absolutely essential to hit a white tail deer in the vitals. The quality range finder is essential are as known sight adjustments of not more than 25 yards increments, even for 300 - 400 yard shots. The bullet will certainly kill a deer when it gets there, even when launched at 1500 - 1600 fps. However, the trajectory is such that it is easy to shoot under or over if the range guestimate or the sight setting is incorrect. Consider the cone of fire of your rifle/load/you under absolute ideal conditions at 400 yards and the size of the vital zone (you shouldn't be just shooting at the deer as was most buffler hunters who were just shooting at the bufflers) of the size of deer you are hunting.

I've also done a fair amount of long range shooting over the years with my TDs using 400 and 500 gr cast bullets with smokeless and BP loads. Shooting at medium range it is very difficult to get a 1st round hit on any target of deer vital zone much past 200 yards. Again, range estimation is critical. field shooting at unknown range targets is a whole lot different than shooting on a nice range where the targets stand still, you have lots of time and you know the exact range. A good example is the oft seen photo of Custer on the '73 expedition with his dogs and others around him. The caption tells of a deer and/or antelope shot at 180 +/- yards with his RB 50-70 and how everyone marveled at the long range and accuracy of it.......that's the way it really was........and still is with the 45-70 with such loads. Of course the +P does flatten the trajectory quite a bit but a correct range guestimation is essential.

Larry Gibson

[DanWalker]

I concur with most of what has been said above. Iron sights cover a LOT of critter past 150 yards. A good old school method to try, involves using your variable power scope and the duplex reticle. Sight in at 100 yards. Then, using a GOOD rangefinder and a 4x8 target backer, start working your way back, shooting groups to whatever range you consider maximum. As you move back and shoot your groups, do this. Shoot a group. Let's use 200 yards as an example. Go to the target and put an orange dot in the center of the group you just shot. It will of course be lower than your 100 yard group. Now go back to your firing position and look through your scope. Dial down the magnification until the point ^ of your reticle is at 6 oclock on the dot. There's your aiming point and scope setting for 200. Keep doing this, working your way back. MUCH faster and more repeatable (for me) than screwing around with turrets and clicks and such. That being said, I live and hunt in Wyoming. There aren't many instances that I can think of where it was impossible to get closer than 400 yards. 99 percent of my critters are shot inside 200 yards, and fully 85 percent of them are shot at less than 150. To each his own. Not trying to preach. Hope I answered your question.

[Win94ae]

Let me just say; if you use a sight picture, as to have the top of the front sight correlating to the POI, then the size of the front sight bead is irrelevant.


You will need precise sight settings and precise range estimation, with a slow moving bullet with that much of a arched trajectory. It can be done, but there is a lot of work involved figuring out your solution, and being able to implement it. At over 200 yards, a range estimation error of 25 yards misses the kill-zone greatly; the further out you get, the greater the miss.

[sharpsguy]

Use a laser rangefinder to find the distance. Have a Sharps with a barrel ladder sight and a blade front, and correlate the ladder sight in 100 yard increments with the rangefinder. DON'T hold ON the animal, use a six o'clock hold and touch the bottom of the animal's belly with the front sight. In other words, place the animal on top of the sight, and have the rifle zeroed so that the bullet hits about 5 inches above the sight. This way, the sight doesn't cover the animal up and you have a finite point of reference for an aiming point. Set the sight correctly for the proper distance, break a good shot, and you have a dead animal. Use a 480 to 500 grain bullet at 1250 fps, and you can hit and kill anything you can generate a quality sight picture on.

An elk at 300 to 400 yards is a gimme with a good Sharps and the right ammunition. I have taken everything from steenbok at 49 yards to springbok at 537 on the laser in Africa using barrel buckhorn sights, and a lot of other animals at distances in between. If you have a 45-70 properly loaded and equipped with the right sights, a deer at 300 yards is certainly doable. You just have to know how to use the rifle.

[Crash_Corrigan]

First off I do not have a 45-70. I have a Winchester Model 1885 High Wall 50-90. Over 6 months of playing around with it I got to the point where I can hit a metal target of 18" x 12" every time at 350 yds. This rifle has iron sights. However the front sight is a Kelly Globe sight and the rear is a Kelly Soule sight. That is the one that flips up and has a very tall ladder to raise your point of impact and has been known to be accurate out to 1,000 yds. Not with me. I need much more practice.

This shooting is being done off a stand up bench at known distances. At a muzzle velocity of 1250 FPS a 25 yd change in distance and not accounted for will cause a miss. I am using a 695 Gr hand cast boolit and it really pounds the bejezzez out of you with the recoil. And this is with a 12 lb rifle. I have over $2,000 invested in just the rifle and another $1,000 in the sights alone. Then comes the dies, molds and brass. Not even talking about the powder.

To really be accurate with a BP 45-70, 45-90, 50-70 or 50-90 Sharps you must have and use a laser range finder. Practice a lot and mark down the setting on your scope in 25 yd increments on an index card. Then tape the card to the left side of your rifles' stock and go from there. They tell me that at 1,000 yds the arch of the path of the boolit may go up as much as 60 feet. I can believe it as I have been successful at hitting a metal buffalo sized target at over 550 yds and you would not believe the amount of elevation on that rifle.

My next project is to get into making my own BP as the Swiss 1 1/2 powder now costs over $23 a lb and I use over 100 gr for each shot so a lb only makes up 70 shots.

Practice....Practice....Practice

[sixshot]

Back in the 70's I bought one of the first Ruger #1 45/70's they made. It was a 4 digit baby with wood that would bring tears to your eyes it was so figured. I shot it a lot using a 1 1/2X4 Leupold with a 400 gr Speer & so much 3031 powder I don't dare list it here. I thought that big old Speer bullet would be the raspberries for elk in the heavy timber of Idaho's Selway country. Sure glad I never got a shot on one with it.
One day I was hunkered down in some of the blow down that the Selway is famous for when a huge muley buck worked into the open at 45-50 yds. His rack wasn't anything special but body wise he was enormous, we needed some camp meat & I wanted to blood my #1 so I gave him 400 grs of lead posioning & down he went. The 400 gr Speer didn't even exit, it was just under the hide on the off side, mushroomed as big as a quarter. Whacking an elk with it would have probably been a disaster. The buck was so big I cut him in half cross ways & couldn't drag the front half over to my horse. This was dressed, legs off & head off & I still couldn't move the front half, except to roll it over.
Sure wish I had kept that #1 but I sold it to the Sheriff at Salmon, Idaho.

Dick

[John Allen]

Follow Crash's advice. If you know the trajectory you are fine. It however is really easy to miss if the wind is blowing more than you think or it is a little closer or farther. When I was younger we used to shoot old trapdoors at a 550 yard steel 2 foot square target and hit consistently but that was for fun and not for meat.

[Digital Dan]

Had occasion to shoot a Sharps early this year with a vernier sight at steel pigs , rams and turkeys at ranges from 100-385 meters. First time I'd fired a BP load in the .45-70. The owner knew his gun and fed it well. Three shooters and maybe 12-18 rounds....change the target, twiddle the elevation...was almost boring except for the switchy 10 mph crosswind. We did miss a couple of turkeys on the first attempts.

[drinks]

I love my .45-70, but at over 200 yds, you really should have had training as a mortar man, it really has a rainbow arc with normal 1300 +/ - fps loads

[M-Tecs]

The rainbow arc trajectory is an issue that can be overcome with a laser range finder and lots of range time. Windage can be overcome by practice but what can’t be overcome is time of flight.

As an example the Garrett's 45-70 420-gr SuperHardCast Hammerhead at 1850-fps would be almost a full second to impact. A deer can move a lot in that amount of time. For that type of distance the deer would have to be very calm. Any movement could lead to a cripple.

The first deer I shot with a 45/70 was in 1975. For that one I used a Trapdoor. Since then I have killed a fair number of deer with various 45/70’s. I shoot 45/70’s out to 1,000 yards on targets but for hunting I keep my shots under 200.

[Crawdaddy]

The short answer is yes and I echo what everyone before me said.

It reminds me of the violinist who got off the train and asked a bystander, "how do I get to Carnegie Hall". His response " practice practice practice".

Do that and you will be fine.