Primitive swaging: how to get started?

[cpileri]

Learned Sirs and Ma'ams,
I am interested in primitive swaging: smashing a lead core into a lead bullet w a hammer and die.

I know, slow and only pure lead. But so far that's what i am interested in.

How would i get started? specifically, does anyone make dies?

I can find a hammer.

Many thanks,
C-

[303british.com]

In the dark times, before plastic, tailor made cigarettes and indoor toilets, they made what was known as a "pound die." You can read about it here. You can also contact corbins.com and ask if they still make them.

http://pdf.textfiles.com/manuals/FIREARMS/corbin_pd-1.pdf

And now, we dance!

[reed1911]

Hawk Bullets still makes this type die. In fact, you can make very nice bullets including some jacketed types this way. It is not fast or quite as precise (as the core weight will vary with no way to squirt them). But, I've made a bunch this way playing around before I upgraded to more conventional means. The other very large attribute is the cost, I believe Hawk charges 155.00 a set now new, and you can find the old C&H, Herters, RCBS, etc for less than 100.00 versus the 300-500 other style dies run.

[cpileri]

Yes, a pound die. Thats what I am looking for.
now to check on availble calibers...

thanks!
C-

[Smokin7mm]

RCE has the description "hammer swage" on the linked page. I know he used to offer them. Would have to e-mail or call to see if he still does. Richard is a really nice guy in my experiences.

http://rceco.com/MN.asp?pg=basicinfo

Bret

[Zymurgy50]

Don't do it!!!!!

First it starts with just one hammer, then another, and then a new set of dies. The next thing you know some guy in a big truck is dropping off a press and some more dies, and you are wondering if you have enough lead and jackets on hand.........
Just one long spiral down from there, just sayin'. Z

[PalmettoShooter]

"I can find a hammer."

I've had a hell of a day and reading that made me feel better. What calibers are you thinking about doing?

Joel

[cpileri]

Zymurgy,
I know deep down in my heart that you are 100% correct. Right now i am after; cheap(est), easiest, and "just to keep a few calibers shooting if I had to.

The real impetus is that my wife is not so comfortable w the heat involved in casting, but the cold swaging she is OK with.

PalmettoShooter, happy to help out! I am interested in 45-calibers (.452-.454, and .458) and 12ga (.731, i know, big hammer!); for sure; with the addition of others along the way. I would also want to be able to do round balls in a few diameters, but I wonder if such a primitive press would be useless for RB since the wont likely be actually round.

[Zymurgy50]

I actually have 2 sets of roundball pound dies, one is .495 and one at .445, they come out as round as my micrometer is accurate.

[cpileri]

Well, that IS good news: that nice round balls can be pound-swaged.

Where did you get the dies?

And yes, its adding up in my mind already: a set of does for each .452, 454, 458, .731 and some round balls-probably .310 at a minimum.

$$$$$$$$

C-

[reed1911]

go east there trigger, buy one and use it and see what you think, if you plan to make 25-50 bullets they are fine, but when you get into making 300 or so for a day at the range it becomes pretty tedious. You also will get much better uniformity from other styles of dies.

[SquirrelHollow]

I swage .44 caliber bullets with a 7x57mm sizing die.
You can read about it here: My 44s from .40 S&W (http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?144113-My-44s-from-40-S-amp-W)

I can't remember which cartridge sizing dies they are, but the same process will work for several diameters of .45 caliber bullets.

[cpileri]

Squirrel Hollow,
You use brass cases w a primitive pound die set? Or am I confused?

Anyway,
That brings up a good point: what is 'too big' for a hammer pound die? 12ga (.731)? what is too hard? a brass jacket? copper tubing or copper end caps as jackets? can i hammer-pound these effectively? or, can I use the pound die as a 'bump up' die, where I take a cast slug that is just a smidge undersized, and pound it into the .731 swage die to just up the diameter by a few thoudandths?

C-

[reed1911]

I've used copper jackets in this type of die. Not sure if you can get enough leverage to bump up a brass case, however the .40 into .44 would be an easy job since the amount of change is minimal. Keep in mind, you don't hammer the bullet into shape, the hammer is knock out the formed bullet, you are still using the lever of the press to swage the bullet.

[SquirrelHollow]

Squirrel Hollow,
You use brass cases w a primitive pound die set? Or am I confused?


I use a reloading press and a 7x57mm sizing die to swage the bullets. I can do so with, or without, the .40 S&W jacket.

[Reload3006]

I've used copper jackets in this type of die. Not sure if you can get enough leverage to bump up a brass case, however the .40 into .44 would be an easy job since the amount of change is minimal. Keep in mind, you don't hammer the bullet into shape, the hammer is knock out the formed bullet, you are still using the lever of the press to swage the bullet.
with a pound die yes you do hammer the bullet into shape.

[cpileri]

Right. And the pound die is what i am looking into right now. Primitive loading stuff.

Has anyone successfully pounded any kind of useable jacket?

In my imagination, using a copper or brass end cap or cartridge, one could take a properly shaped pound die "male part" (if you think of the thing you are pounding into as the "female part", undersized enough to leave space for the jacket to form, and beat it into shape. Then could either pound the lead core into the formed jacket, or else melt lead (which is outside the scope of this current brainstorming I am doing).

I would think the case head woudl be hard to form w a pound die, depending on how robust both the casehead, dies, and your arm/happer are.


C-

[MOcaster]

I don't think you could form the point of a jacket in a pound die but you could probably use half jackets.

[reed1911]

Ignorance on my part, I was not thinking of a die that you pound the bullet into shape, I was thinking of the type that you hit to remove the bullet.

[cpileri]

like this, as posted by Lancaster on 18/08/08 at 3;26am:

132884
http://forums.nitroexpress.com/printthread.php?Cat=0&Board=paradox&main=109526&type=thread

[.22-10-45]

I made up a little more sophisticated pound die for expanding .58 minnies to fit a 3 band Snider. 3 piece..body with proper sized hole thru..base plug was two piece..adjustable for length with fine thread, nose punch fit bullet nose. I use this in an arbor press..base plug adjusted until bullet at proper dia. & top punch bottoms out on top of die body.

[.22-10-45]

Oh yes, then there was the time I was layed off from work & needed to expand a .45 revolver bullet to fit throats....what to do? Industrial supply houses..depending where you live, either carry or can order hardnend and ground drill bushings..these can be had even in special non-std. dia.'s. fitted nose-punch using epoxy & flat-faced bottom punch. light smack with hammer expanded them nicely.

[cpileri]

do you have any pictures of your set up?

[257]

I think I might have to try that it would be another thing to tie up a pile of money in