310 Handles

[Mk42gunner]

Having recently became interested in the Lyman tong tools, I have done some research and still have a question. Can the small handle be used for rifle calibers that are supposed to be used with the large handle?

From what I can find out between here, castpics, and the Lyman website; the only difference is the length of the threaded boss the dies screw into. It seems to me the longer die would work with the shorter boss of the small handles, but I would rather ask someone that knows for sure before I start laying out my hard earned cash.

I guess what really got me interested was a combination of Char-Gar's thread about deals still on ebay, my buying an 1899 Krag carbine, and needing loading dies for it. I am sure I will pick up a set of 7/8-14 dies for the Krag, I just though a tong tool would be interesting to learn how to use.

Thanks for the advice,

Robert

[Green Frog]

Robert,

The length of the the "spigot" is to get the necessary length away from the other handle. I know some dies will work for shorter rifle cartridges and small handles, but as long as the 30-40 Krag case is, I seriously doubt that combination would work.

Froggie

[Mk42gunner]

Okay, that makes sense to me. I was thinking that if I found a complete set for one of the handgun calibers I load before I found rifle dies, I might save a bit of money.

Now to start looking at gunshows instead of walking by the tables with tong tools.

I knew it was a good idea to ask before buying, thanks Froggie.

Robert

[Green Frog]

No problem, Robert. My strategy was to get a lot of the old caliber specific handles (for as many of the calibers I was likely to load as possible) and then at least one each of the large and small handles that take the adaptor rings to change calibers. In reality, the two handles can do the whole job for you and you never have to worry about it.

Froggie

PS Look at the junkiest tables and displays for the handles you need or try to find one each of the complete sets including a large and a small handle, then add die sets as needed and as the opportunities arise. Remember, finish on the handles is immaterial, they just have to work.

[Char-Gar]

The answer to your question is "it depends". It all depends on the length of the dies which of course depends on the length of the case. 310 dies for got short rifle cases (32-20, 25-20 etc) work just fine with small handles.

The old steel caliber specific handles also have some flexibility. A handle for any case based on the 30-06 round (270, 300 savage, 250 savage, etc) as well as the metrics (8x57, 7X57, 9X57 etc) can all be loaded with the same set of handles. I have a set of 7mm handles I use for 30-06 dies.

Also a set of 30-40 handles also loads 44 Special and Magnum rounds just fine. That is what I do.

You can "almost" load 45 Colt with dedicated 45 ACP handles. You can do all operations but expand the cases to seat the bullets. The 45 ACP hole is just a smidge to small to allow the expanded case to be removed without a hassle.

The 30-40 was a popular round and dies and handles for this round are fairly common on Ebay. The older pre-war Ideal (Lyman) No. 3 works just fine, plus you can also prime and bullet size with it if you are so minded. The bullet sizing hole on these is .312 - .3125. It can be a booger to horse a larger hard bullet through this hole with the handles. The same can be said for the latter 310 bullet sizing dies that could be had.

The screw priming dies are also great. The 45 ACP and any 30-06 headed case can be primed with the same die. 30-40 and 303 British is another interchange. There are others that interchange as well. Not to hard to figure out if you know your cases.

When you buy used aluminum handles be aware that some out there have had their threads stripped due to guys horsing or cross threading steel dies into them. It is not hard to do. You will need to clean the threads from time to time as gunk (power trash, oil, grease, lube etc) will accumulate there.

If you buy aluminum handles at a gun show, it is a good idea to have a die in your pocket to screw in and check the condition of the handle threads.

Also be aware that the longer neck sizing dies that also have a decapping rod require considerable more force to size cases that the shorter dies that neck size only. The longer dies were intended for the Tru-Line Jr. press. They can be used with the tong handles, but require more muscle.

[Mk42gunner]

This all sounds like good advice to me. I hadn't even thought about the aluminum threads possibly being stripped; plus it seems most of the handles I have seen lately around here are the steel ones.

I really hadn't thought about sizing bullets with a tong tool, it is enough of a pain when using a LAM or 450.

I will be watching at the next few shows I go to, and I am already more inclines to stop at the junky tables to browse. I will also browse over on ebay to get some idea of prices.

Once again, thanks for the advice,

Robert

[Char-Gar]

general idea of prices. Here is my notions.

Individual dies - $5 - $8
Priming dies - $8 - @12
Steel handles - $20 - $35
Aluminum handles - $20 - 35
Shell adapters for handles $8 - $10

Some calibers are common and some are not. The calibers that command the highest prices on the used market are those preferred by the Cowboy shooters, 45 Colt, 44-40, 38-40, 45-70 and the like.

A good boxed set should run $75 - $95.

You can buy 310 stuff for less and you can pay more. Pay less and you got a good deal, pay more and you should have waited. Lots of this stuff out there and it isn't going away soon.

[Char-Gar]

Muzzle/ resizing dies also can do a number of different rounds as long as the case length is within the adjustment of the die in and out of the spout.

Depriming dies are also very versatile.

Of course with an adapter all of these dies can be used in your standard bench press. These dies don't full length resize, but can do anything else. They can be quite useful to the reloader.

[Pavogrande]

Good job char gar !
One point on the threads -
It is probably best to pass up dies/handles or bits with buggered threads as they are not standard --
perhaps excepting the 10/32 decap rods --
It is really tough to even try to "chase" a die thread on the lathe, much less an internal one --
my tuppence

[Green Frog]

general idea of prices. Here is my notions.

Individual dies - $5 - $8
Priming dies - $8 - @12
Steel handles - $20 - $35
Aluminum handles - $20 - 35
Shell adapters for handles $8 - $10

Some calibers are common and some are not. The calibers that command the highest prices on the used market are those preferred by the Cowboy shooters, 45 Colt, 44-40, 38-40, 45-70 and the like.

A good boxed set should run $75 - $95.

You can buy 310 stuff for less and you can pay more. Pay less and you got a good deal, pay more and you should have waited. Lots of this stuff out there and it isn't going away soon.

Agreed except for the price of the steel handles... I find them to be approximately twice as expensive as the aluminum ones, especially if you are looking for the steel ones that take the adaptors since they were only made for a year or two. Some of the more common calibers of steel dies (especially 30-06 family) might show up on the cheap side. This varies quite a bit regionally and even from one show to the next in the same area. Shop around. ;)

Froggie

[Pavogrande]

Well, ain't none of the bits and pieces cheap at the 310 store --

[catskinner]

Check the neck sizing dies. If there is an expander ball on the decapping rod they are intended for the Tru-line Jr. They will screw into the 310 handles and the case will go in. But when you open the handles the extractor hook swings away from the case and can't extract it. I found this out the hard way and ended up sawing the head off the case and disassembling the die to get the rest of the case out.

[Pavogrande]

Cat -- many newer 310 sets use a CMR die.
I don't understand how the expander ball interfirs with the operation --

[catskinner]

Pavogrande, You can get the case all the way into the die and the it is neck sized. Then the neck is to small to go over the expander when you try to extract the case. Watch the extractor when you open the handles. It swings away from the head of the case about the time the case neck contacts the expander.

[Wayne Smith]

And guys, when you look at prices of some of these sets remember that Lyman is still making some of them and selling them new. This is especially true of the "cowboy" calibers. No point in paying more than the new price for a used set!

[Char-Gar]

And guys, when you look at prices of some of these sets remember that Lyman is still making some of them and selling them new. This is especially true of the "cowboy" calibers. No point in paying more than the new price for a used set!


The cost of a new set of dies is about $75.00 or a little more with the handles bringing about the same price. That brings the cost to $150.00.

I just bought a boxed set in 45 Colt (handles, dies etc.) for $75.00. So, it pays to shop the used market even though the particular caliber is still being produced. For non-cowboy calibers the used market is the only game in town.

I use 310 set up to load, 30-40,303 British, .308 (all there can be loaded with the same tool and dies), 30-06, 38 Special, 357 Magnum, 44 Special, 44 Magnum, 45 ACP/AR and 45 Colt.

I decap and primer many more calibers with the tools. I still use a press to size cases and sometimes to expand case mouths.

[Char-Gar]

Pavogrande, You can get the case all the way into the die and the it is neck sized. Then the neck is to small to go over the expander when you try to extract the case. Watch the extractor when you open the handles. It swings away from the head of the case about the time the case neck contacts the expander.

These dies make dandy neck sizing dies for use with a press and thread adapter, but they are not worth spit in a 310 tool. Still they can often be had for much less that a traditional neck sizing die and can still be useful at a low cost.

[Pavogrande]

cat --- Ok, I see your point about the expander button -- Should work ok with the button removed. --

[Green Frog]

cat --- Ok, I see your point about the expander button -- Should work ok with the button removed. --

+1 In fact, you can remove the decapping stem altogether and just neck size if you are using a separate de- and recapper, or you can use the decap-only die and the gutted CMR if you are "making up" a die set. The possibilities are about endless. :D

Froggie

PS It pays to have a fairly large junk box full of orphan dies to use (or modify and use) as needed! ;)

[Mk42gunner]

+1 In fact, you can remove the decapping stem altogether and just neck size if you are using a separate de- and recapper, or you can use the decap-only die and the gutted CMR if you are "making up" a die set. The possibilities are about endless. :D

Froggie

PS It pays to have a fairly large junk box full of orphan dies to use (or modify and use) as needed! ;)

Yes it does. I have quite a few 7/8-14 orphan dies. In fact I have a penchant for digging through the boxes of old single dies marked $5/ea. when I find them, looking for something I might be able to use in the future.

I just wish I would have been smart enough to buy a bunch of the 310 stuff when it was still cheap. Oh well, I guess they will never be any cheaper.

Robert