I'll be more careful with old ammo...

[fatelk]

We shot a bunch of clay targets today, and I thought I'd shoot up a bunch of old shells I've had laying around. I think they came out of my grandfather's safe when he passed away about 5 years ago, so I have no idea how old they really are, but I'm pretty sure they are factory rounds.

http://i298.photobucket.com/albums/mm274/fatelk/IMG_0916_zps994ad2d0.jpg (http://s298.photobucket.com/user/fatelk/media/IMG_0916_zps994ad2d0.jpg.html)

http://i298.photobucket.com/albums/mm274/fatelk/IMG_0918_zps27018eb2.jpg (http://s298.photobucket.com/user/fatelk/media/IMG_0918_zps27018eb2.jpg.html)

On a related note; anyone know where I can find an extractor for an old Remington Sportsman 48?

[snuffy]

Looks like an old Federal paper shell. My brother brought out some ancient Winchester buckshot loads in paper hulls. They kicked real hard, more-so than any baby magnums. Dad stopped him after the first three, we cut them apart to destroy them. Dad thought they had "just dried out too much". Being very old, and me just a snot nosed kid accepted that as the truth.

The buckshot made real good slingshot ammo for me. Hit a feral cat in the part that goes over the fence last. He hit some gears his git-up-and-go had never seen before!

I dunno, does powder that has gone bad burn faster? Never got a good answer to that question. I just know that it exhibits a foul-sour smell, and has red dust with it when it's gone bad.

[Czech_too]

Would this be what you're looking for?
http://www.gunpartscorp.com/Manufacturers/Remington-33454/Shotguns-37896/SPT48-41230.htm?page=2

[Bad Water Bill]

If it is BROWN flush it down.

[uscra112]

That looks like maybe the brass had corroded?

[runfiverun]

the steel inside the brass corroded, it's definitely plastic and ribbed like they used to do in the 60's.
I'd bet it has a paper internal base though.

[fatelk]

Well I just cut open the half a box that was left, salvage the shot. It's funny, I didn't find any corrosion or damage at all, in any of them. The shot was all nice and shiny like you would expect brand new. The powder looked fine. All the base wads looked perfect (yes, old style paper base wads).

I'm pretty sure now that they were reloads. They were nicely reloaded so that I could barely tell, but the crimps were not heat-sealed and the brass looked like probably had been resized (had to look close). The one interesting part was when I ground off part of the rim, put my knife in the seam, and easily pealed the rest of the brass base away. The brass was solid brass, not plated steel, and absolutely no sign of any corrosion, but it did seem brittle.

Kind of funny, don't know, but they're all going in the garbage. At least the hulls and wads, that is. I'll keep the lead and primers, and the powder is fertilizer of course.

Thanks for the Numrich link. Yes, that's the right part, but I actually found one on ebay for $8.99 shipped. I like Numrich, but I'll take a chance on ebay for less than half the price. :)

[Bent Ramrod]

I noticed that split around the rim sometimes happened on old paper shells. Probably something akin to season cracking in the old rifle and pistol brass. Forming that rim is a pretty extreme bend for thin brass. Primitive metallurgy and annealing, many years under that stress and then finally the shock and pressure of firing would be enough to split it.

I always preferred paper shells to plastic, when I could get them, even so. A paper shell shows you that it is through when you take it, fired, out of the gun. A plastic shell looks OK after firing, but then shreds the crimp after you've taken all the trouble to reload it.

[missionary5155]

Good morning
Would be interesting to know the composition of the paper used in the hulls.
Ever heard of "acid paper" ? Makes old photos go pale. Color photos go blank. Ever see paper sold as "Acid Free" ?
Could this be a case of acid paper working from the inside on the brass ?
Mike in Peru

[lancem]

I have a bunch of 16 ga, off the top of my head I want to say it is Hiawatha?? an old hardware store brand that does this, some of them even have the brass cracked along the side, all of it NIB. I remember reading somewhere that it was probably re-branded Federal, anyway one of these days I need to sit down and take them down to components, too bad too as I've got about a case of them.

[runfiverun]

Hiawatha was a brand name back in the day there was Mohican too, they were the equivalent of the gun club etc.. now day's
I don't remember which was remington and which was federal

[CastingFool]

I have a bunch of 16 ga, off the top of my head I want to say it is Hiawatha?? an old hardware store brand that does this, some of them even have the brass cracked along the side, all of it NIB. I remember reading somewhere that it was probably re-branded Federal, anyway one of these days I need to sit down and take them down to components, too bad too as I've got about a case of them.

The Hiawatha brand was sold by Gamble's. They were a dept. store much like Sears, and Montgomery Wards. I worked at a local Gamble's for a while. I really kick myself now, our employee discount was 25% off retail. I could have bought Winchester 94s for $75 plus tax. The commemoratives were a little more expensive. Living in a shotgun only zone, I couldn't see much sense on owning a 30-30.

[shaper]

This post reminded me, I have several 12 ga. shells I reloaded with a skeet load in about 1975. All are Federal plastic. Maybe I should cut these open also.

[wv109323]

For the Remington parts,there is a guy that specializes in 11-48 , 11-58 and the other older Remington shotguns. Google sportsman58 and you should find him.

[dagger dog]

I can't remember seeing Federal shells that were paper, they were the first to come along with the color changes for 20 gauge (yellow) and I swear I can't remember them being any thing but ribbed plastic.

[snuffy]

I can't remember seeing Federal shells that were paper, they were the first to come along with the color changes for 20 gauge (yellow) and I swear I can't remember them being any thing but ribbed plastic.

Well then, you ain't very old,,--are you?!:kidding:

Shotgun shell hulls were always made of paper. Before they once were made of brass. Plastics were first introduced by Remington with their plastic express shells. They were also first to use plastic wads.

I can't see that shell well enough to determine if it IS paper.-------- Ok, I opened another tab to look again, then enlarged the pic. I CAN see the ribs of the plastic hull. Also it might actually BE a brass head, not brass plated steel. Federal was slow to switch to plated steel heads.

I have some Federal paper target loads around somewhere. If needed to prove a point, I'll take a few pics and post them.

[dagger dog]

Well then, you ain't very old,,--are you?!:kidding:

Shotgun shell hulls were always made of paper. Before they once were made of brass. Plastics were first introduced by Remington with their plastic express shells. They were also first to use plastic wads.

I can't see that shell well enough to determine if it IS paper.-------- Ok, I opened another tab to look again, then enlarged the pic. I CAN see the ribs of the plastic hull. Also it might actually BE a brass head, not brass plated steel. Federal was slow to switch to plated steel h

I have some Federal paper target loads around somewhere. If needed to prove a point, I'll take a few pics and post them.

snuffy you may be right, I got my first shotgun at 13-14 yrs old about 1961 and hunted the woods and meadows around the house for squirrel dove rabbit and quail.

Would usually split a box of 25 between 2 or 3 of us and always tried to get Federal 'cause they were cheaper than WW or RP.

[Sweetpea]

Federal is the only company in the US that still makes paper shells...

[fatelk]

I can't see that shell well enough to determine if it IS paper.-------- Ok, I opened another tab to look again, then enlarged the pic. I CAN see the ribs of the plastic hull. Also it might actually BE a brass head, not brass plated steel. Federal was slow to switch to plated steel heads.

Sorry, I should have mentioned they were indeed plastic hulls, with a paper base wad and solid brass, not plated steel. The brass seemed a bit brittle. I could tear it with needle nose pliers.

[firefly1957]

Earlier this year i fired a couple old slugs in paper shells in a double barrel 12 ga. and they fired fine i put the gun up and a couple weeks later noticed rust by the muzzle? I opened the gun and the entire bore had a coat of rust they were corrosive primed! I got it cleaned up okay but that is something else to consider when shooting old ammo.
As far as does powder get stronger as it ages or burn faster i have a supply of old 351 WSL and they do kick a lot more than they should i only fired a couple and never found a case as they extracted so fast.