ohland
11-18-2013, 11:15 PM
Editing, the 1929, 1897, and American Small Arms differ. Not even looked in Lyman's HCB yet.
Scrounged up some descriptions for .400, .403, and .406 diameter molds from a variety of sources. If some of you-all have better descriptions from Ideal or Lyman catalogs, please post to this thread with the correction or description of the boolit.
You will see 43? for a few top punches, my guess was since the Perfection molds were the same flat point (nose pour mold), they would more or less share the same Top Punch. Or so I hope...
Disclaimer: It is well known that (at times) cherries have been used too long, with undersized cavities resulting. Some throats are too big compared to the groove diameter. Over time, manufacturers held different tolerances and dimensions for the chamber and bore. Different alloys will turn out different diameters. What follows below is simply a collection of the various Ideal and Lyman mold descriptions, which does NOT mean that any particular mold will cast a boolit like you expect. What does this mean? Slug your bore if you don't know the bore/groove dimensions for your gun. If the mold is undersize, you may have to beagle / lap it out some. [ed]
NOTE: Any loads mentioned are taken from period documents, and are not in any way tested. Please refer to modern loading manuals for safe loads. [ed]
v/r,
A fellow servant to the heavy metal :coffeecom
.400 is the proper diameter of bullets for all arms using the .38-40 cartridges- Winchester, Marlin, and Colt's rifles and revolvers.
40043 / 40143 This is the regular standard .38-40 bullet. It is also a fine bullet for .40 Cal. short range, as the moulds cast it .003 large. See 40395 for a light sharp point. (PB, 180 - TP is 43)
40188 A very successful bullet designed by Douglas Sorenson for the .38-40 (PB, 170 - TP is 88)
40090. Express bullet. Those who have .38-40 rifles can increase their killing power 50 per cent, by using express bullets. The shape is standard, so they may be loaded with the regular reloading tools. (PB, 168 - TP is ?)
40091. Round ball. Is used with light charge for short range or small game. Too much powder will cause them to jump the rifling. Proper charge will do good light shooting. (95)
401258 Blunt nose bullet for the .38-40 (PB, ? - TP is 43)
401452 Designed by Boser for the .38-40. (PB, 196 - TP is 452)
401638 Available in HP or solid (BB, 155/HP, 175/solid - TP is ?)
401654 (BB, 150 - TP is ?)
.403 is the standard size of bullets for nearly all .40 caliber rifles—Sharp's, Ballard's, Remington's, Winchester's, Marlin's, Colt's, Stevens', and others. The following- cartridges have bullets all of the same shaped points: .40-60-210, .40-65-260, .40-82-260, .40-110-260. The shells for these cartridges are different, by Marlin and others. These bullets may be interchanged, and, though of different weights, will all seat properly in the regular reloading tools for these cartridges. The .40-60 Marlin and Colt's bullet or shell is not of the same shape as the .40-60 Winchester. They require different tools. The .40 Ballard size is .413.
40392 This fine series of bullets with points of standard shape; correct for the regular reloading tools that are for the following cartridges: .40-60 Winchester .40-65, .40-70, .40-82,Winchester, Marlin, etc. This 330 grains bullet was first made by our Mr. Barlow and was later adopted by the Winchester for their .40-70-330. [standard weight is 330 gr. ed] (PB, 155, 190, 225, 250, 295, 330, Also Perfection - TP is 43)
40393 This series of express bullets is of the standard form and may be loaded with the regular tools enumerated under 40392. Every person owning one of these rifles should have an express mould, as they greatly increase the killing power for large game. (PB, 205, 240, 275, 310 - TP is 43)
40394. This series of bullets was designed especially for the .40-70 and .40-90 Sharp's Straight, Ballard, and Remington. Sportsmen having these rifles report them fine. They are much less trouble than patched bullets. No. 3 Special tool only made for them. (PB, 188, 216, 244, 272, 300, 327, 327, 355, 383, Also Perfection - TP is 43?)
40395. These are good light weight, grooved, short range, .40 caliber bullets. They require special chamber to seat them. Another good .40 caliber short range bullet is No. 40043. (PB, 145, 195 - TP is 95)
40396. This is a series of bullets liked by many. The point is shorter than standard. There are some good light and heavy weights. (PB, 137, 170, 203, 237, 270, 303, 337, 370 Also in Perfection - TP is 43?)
40397. Round ball. This is for extra short range or small game. Shoots well with proper charge. Too much powder will cause them to jump the rifling. (96)
403147. This is an illustration of a bullet from the Cylindrical adjustable mould. The bullet is cast smooth for paper patching. Mould will cast bullets of varying lengths, with flat, round, or Leopold point.
403149. This is the original .40-330 grooved bullet, used in the .40-70 and .40-90 Sharp's, Remington, and Ballard, straight and bottle necked shells. (PB, 330 - TP is 88)
403168. This is the standard factory bullet, .40-60 Winchester. It weighs 210 grains, while the .40-60 Marlin weighs 260 grains. Loading tool correct for one is not right for the other. (PB, 210 - TP is 43)
403169. This is the standard Winchester bullet for the following cartridges: .40-65-260, .40-70-330, .40-82-260, .40-110-260, all Winchesters, though used but the bullets are the same. (PB, 260 - TP is 43)
403170. This is the .40-60 Marlin, 260 grains, factory bullet. It is frequently confused with the .40-260 Winchester. Note the difference in the shape of point. This bullet will not seat properly in tool that is correct for the .40-260 Winchester. (PB, 260 - TP is ?)
403171. This is the only .40-370 grooved bullet made. All other .40 caliber, weighing 370 grains, are for patching with paper. (PB, 370 - TP is 88)
403172. This is the old .40-285 Sharp's, Ballard, and Remington; an old-time popular bullet. (PB, 285 - TP is 88)
403173. This is a special .40-305, used extensively for Sharp's, Ballard, and Remington rifles. (PB, 305 - TP is 43)
406150 This is the regular factory bullet for the .40-72-330 Winchester. Note that the diameter is .003 larger than all other .40 caliber Winchesters. It is the only .40 calibre bullet having a round point, which is preferred by many. It is also fine for the various .40 caliber single shot rifles which have groove diameters larger than standard. (PB, 330, TP is 43)
Scrounged up some descriptions for .400, .403, and .406 diameter molds from a variety of sources. If some of you-all have better descriptions from Ideal or Lyman catalogs, please post to this thread with the correction or description of the boolit.
You will see 43? for a few top punches, my guess was since the Perfection molds were the same flat point (nose pour mold), they would more or less share the same Top Punch. Or so I hope...
Disclaimer: It is well known that (at times) cherries have been used too long, with undersized cavities resulting. Some throats are too big compared to the groove diameter. Over time, manufacturers held different tolerances and dimensions for the chamber and bore. Different alloys will turn out different diameters. What follows below is simply a collection of the various Ideal and Lyman mold descriptions, which does NOT mean that any particular mold will cast a boolit like you expect. What does this mean? Slug your bore if you don't know the bore/groove dimensions for your gun. If the mold is undersize, you may have to beagle / lap it out some. [ed]
NOTE: Any loads mentioned are taken from period documents, and are not in any way tested. Please refer to modern loading manuals for safe loads. [ed]
v/r,
A fellow servant to the heavy metal :coffeecom
.400 is the proper diameter of bullets for all arms using the .38-40 cartridges- Winchester, Marlin, and Colt's rifles and revolvers.
40043 / 40143 This is the regular standard .38-40 bullet. It is also a fine bullet for .40 Cal. short range, as the moulds cast it .003 large. See 40395 for a light sharp point. (PB, 180 - TP is 43)
40188 A very successful bullet designed by Douglas Sorenson for the .38-40 (PB, 170 - TP is 88)
40090. Express bullet. Those who have .38-40 rifles can increase their killing power 50 per cent, by using express bullets. The shape is standard, so they may be loaded with the regular reloading tools. (PB, 168 - TP is ?)
40091. Round ball. Is used with light charge for short range or small game. Too much powder will cause them to jump the rifling. Proper charge will do good light shooting. (95)
401258 Blunt nose bullet for the .38-40 (PB, ? - TP is 43)
401452 Designed by Boser for the .38-40. (PB, 196 - TP is 452)
401638 Available in HP or solid (BB, 155/HP, 175/solid - TP is ?)
401654 (BB, 150 - TP is ?)
.403 is the standard size of bullets for nearly all .40 caliber rifles—Sharp's, Ballard's, Remington's, Winchester's, Marlin's, Colt's, Stevens', and others. The following- cartridges have bullets all of the same shaped points: .40-60-210, .40-65-260, .40-82-260, .40-110-260. The shells for these cartridges are different, by Marlin and others. These bullets may be interchanged, and, though of different weights, will all seat properly in the regular reloading tools for these cartridges. The .40-60 Marlin and Colt's bullet or shell is not of the same shape as the .40-60 Winchester. They require different tools. The .40 Ballard size is .413.
40392 This fine series of bullets with points of standard shape; correct for the regular reloading tools that are for the following cartridges: .40-60 Winchester .40-65, .40-70, .40-82,Winchester, Marlin, etc. This 330 grains bullet was first made by our Mr. Barlow and was later adopted by the Winchester for their .40-70-330. [standard weight is 330 gr. ed] (PB, 155, 190, 225, 250, 295, 330, Also Perfection - TP is 43)
40393 This series of express bullets is of the standard form and may be loaded with the regular tools enumerated under 40392. Every person owning one of these rifles should have an express mould, as they greatly increase the killing power for large game. (PB, 205, 240, 275, 310 - TP is 43)
40394. This series of bullets was designed especially for the .40-70 and .40-90 Sharp's Straight, Ballard, and Remington. Sportsmen having these rifles report them fine. They are much less trouble than patched bullets. No. 3 Special tool only made for them. (PB, 188, 216, 244, 272, 300, 327, 327, 355, 383, Also Perfection - TP is 43?)
40395. These are good light weight, grooved, short range, .40 caliber bullets. They require special chamber to seat them. Another good .40 caliber short range bullet is No. 40043. (PB, 145, 195 - TP is 95)
40396. This is a series of bullets liked by many. The point is shorter than standard. There are some good light and heavy weights. (PB, 137, 170, 203, 237, 270, 303, 337, 370 Also in Perfection - TP is 43?)
40397. Round ball. This is for extra short range or small game. Shoots well with proper charge. Too much powder will cause them to jump the rifling. (96)
403147. This is an illustration of a bullet from the Cylindrical adjustable mould. The bullet is cast smooth for paper patching. Mould will cast bullets of varying lengths, with flat, round, or Leopold point.
403149. This is the original .40-330 grooved bullet, used in the .40-70 and .40-90 Sharp's, Remington, and Ballard, straight and bottle necked shells. (PB, 330 - TP is 88)
403168. This is the standard factory bullet, .40-60 Winchester. It weighs 210 grains, while the .40-60 Marlin weighs 260 grains. Loading tool correct for one is not right for the other. (PB, 210 - TP is 43)
403169. This is the standard Winchester bullet for the following cartridges: .40-65-260, .40-70-330, .40-82-260, .40-110-260, all Winchesters, though used but the bullets are the same. (PB, 260 - TP is 43)
403170. This is the .40-60 Marlin, 260 grains, factory bullet. It is frequently confused with the .40-260 Winchester. Note the difference in the shape of point. This bullet will not seat properly in tool that is correct for the .40-260 Winchester. (PB, 260 - TP is ?)
403171. This is the only .40-370 grooved bullet made. All other .40 caliber, weighing 370 grains, are for patching with paper. (PB, 370 - TP is 88)
403172. This is the old .40-285 Sharp's, Ballard, and Remington; an old-time popular bullet. (PB, 285 - TP is 88)
403173. This is a special .40-305, used extensively for Sharp's, Ballard, and Remington rifles. (PB, 305 - TP is 43)
406150 This is the regular factory bullet for the .40-72-330 Winchester. Note that the diameter is .003 larger than all other .40 caliber Winchesters. It is the only .40 calibre bullet having a round point, which is preferred by many. It is also fine for the various .40 caliber single shot rifles which have groove diameters larger than standard. (PB, 330, TP is 43)