Troubles casting with Lyman HP mold

[cheese1566]

I just received a an older Lyman SC 358156 HP mold in mediocre shape. It needed a good scrubbing, had some minor surface rust, and needed a HP pin and knob. No complaining as it was a superb deal and if anyone knows me, I love to tinker! I cleaned it up and crafted a pin and wood holder. I made the knob a little larger so I could swap the pin end for end and make either HP's or flat points. After scrubbing, polishing, and oiling, ,,I scrubbed it with Dawn and toothbrush before heating and testing...

I cannot get fillout with it! Help!!!

I tried everything I can read here and on CastPics. I even tried dipping the HP pin in lead to heat it up. I still get a severe wrinkle on the nose in the same spot and crappy fillout on the center section. Even after preheating the mold on my hot plate, and casting 40-50 boolits.

I am running my clip-on WW's with some 50-50 solder added for tin and running the melt on my RCBS ProMelt with PID @ 750. I tried different rates of pour and even forced pours with the spout up to the sprue plate. Still no luck.

I don't get it since I am getting flashing around my pin (loose HP pin, will redo another) and some flashing around the top by the base and sprue plate from wear areas.

Any ideas?
I am about ready to go to MiHec... I love his molds and have no trouble with HP's there...

[detox]

Turn up the melt temp to 800 then preheat mould and pin...then try again. Raising temp by 50 degrees has helped me cast better with some difficult moulds.

What type of steel did you use for the pin. I wonder if it makes a difference?

[Bzcraig]

I don't have a Lyman mold but my NOE HP mold needs to be run real hot. I actually keep my propane torch burning, I only pour about 100 at a time, so I can keep the pins hot with direct heat cause the mold wants to get too hot otherwise. If this is your first HP be very patient.

[Larry Gibson]

Wrinkles on the nose is from;

Mould not really clean; probably not the case here.

Vent lines plugged; Are the ones in the nose area clear?

Not casting fast enough/mould blocks not hot enough; are you casting one bullet right after another or stopping to inspect the cast bullet, do things with sprue, check pot etc.? A single cavity mould block with HP pin slows you down enough by itself that the blocks can easily get too cool or never really come to a good casting temp. Close blocks, insert pin, pour alloy, let sprue harden, (I put the sprue back in pot while sprue hardens) twist and remove HP pin, break sprue and open sprue plate, drop bullet, do it all over again. Cast bullets, one right after another and don't fool around with anything else. A good tempo that keeps the mould blocks hot is needed.

HP pin not hot enough; a simple gadget I made out of wire from photo in NRA Cast Bullet pub. It works very well. Keep propane flame adjusted so the pin stays hot but does not turn blue and then red because that is way to hot.

87953

Alloy not hot enough; an alloy temp of 725 -745 should be good with a ternary alloy and a good casting tempo.

Not enough tin in alloy; "some 50-50 solder added.....how much is "some"? With COWWs you should add 2% tin which is 6.4 oz of 50-50 solder per 10 lbs of alloy. Not enough tin in COWWs will easily cause your problem. BTW; for best expansion of that bullet at handgun magnum velocities after adding the 2% tin to the COWWs add 50% lead.

Not pouring fast enough; the sprue hole should be about 1/4 - 1/2" max from the spout. Adjust the flow so the alloy goes in as quick as possible w/o splatter but with a very generous sprue. I continuously open the adjustment on my Mag20 as the level of alloy in the pot is reduced as the amount of alloy affects the pressure of the flow.

Try the above methods as casting with a Lyman HP mould is not difficult. Using any other mould is not going make it easier. I've cast thousands of HPs with Lyman HP moulds with complete success. I did have to go through a learning curve at first though. The above are the resulting things I learned. They should help you and you should get some very nice HP 358156s.

Larry Gibson

[Beagle333]

I'm pretty sure Larry hit it somewhere in those rules. That's a great list!!!! I'm leaning toward the one about not pouring fast enough.
I ladle cast and I have to really concentrate on hitting the hole dead center and flooding that cavity as fast as possible. You can't dribble it across the spure plate and let it swirl down the hole and it still be hot enough to not wrinkle when it gets to the bottom.

[fryboy]

as you've found you picked one of the advanced hair pulling learn to curse molds , about the only thing i can add to what's been posted above is either try smoking the tip of the pin or shading it with a #2 pencil ( right where you tend to get the wrinkles/bad fill out ) they say that smoking merely mask the problem , while that may be true especially on aluminum molds ,it seems to lube the pins for me

my 45 hp isnt nearly as challenging as the hollow based 38 wadcutter , my fav alloy for either is 3 parts pure ( or close to it ) one part clip on ww's with 2-3 % added tin , the hp expands really well even at 45 velocities and stays together decently as well ( the term awesum comes to mind ;) )

oh and dont slow down to look at even one casting just cast cast cast , good luck amigo ( and if you invent any new cusswords .... please share ! lolz me fav "fiddle stix" )

[cheese1566]

Good points being shared.

I set it off to the side for more tinkering. I think I may craft another pin that is shorter so it isn't a long heat sink. I was getting good fill inside the HP, but the grease groove area was crappy. I reversed the pin to make solids, and still issues in the groove area.
I will tinker some more and experiment. I will give it another going over in the cavity and a good scrubbing.

I did get my MiHec 380-93 HP mold out last night that I have never used yet, but was slightly used. That one cast great once heated up. I did have to buck up the heat to 775, whereas all my other molds and MiHec 45 HP go good at 750.

First thing I'll do when trying the Lyman will be more heat.

[GLL]

Just as an "experiment" try casting with some linotype alloy ! I am not suggesting you shoot these bullets but just see how the mold behaves ! Heat as suggested above and cast at six cycles per minute without looking at the bullets closely. Linotype flows very well and remains liquid down to 465 degrees so you should get great fill-out. You may have to lower alloy temperature or cycle rate a bit to make this work.
This trial will let you know if you have a temperature problem or a mold/pin that is not clean enough.

Linotype casts beautiful hollow-point bullets although they are pretty much useless ! :) :)

Jerry

[bhn22]

Do you have a pic of the nose defect in one of your bullets? I've had them in the past and they seemed to be caused by swirling alloy, "freezing" in a mold that needed to be much hotter. Depending on the mold, I've gone as far as to hold the front of the mold in the molten alloy to super heat the mold. I check progress with a piece of beeswax by the handles. Just a touch tells me if the molds too hot, the beeswax smokes almost immediately. I'm after it melting instantly, a little wisp of smoke is okay. The pin has to be hot too, as covered above. The resulting bullet will likely be frosted. After a few casts the frost usually goes down, and the molds settle down and behave themselves.

[paul h]

Casting hp's can be a very frustrating experience because you have to cast hot, and you have to cast fast (to keep the mold hot). Casting fast enough in a single cavity mold with a removeable pin can really tax you.