Getting the fields ready for planting

[John Allen]

I thought you guys would appreciate this. I have 4 acres that I have decided to turn into farm land for my own food and extras for the needy. This is the first time I will be doing this on a larger scale. I always had a 20 by 30 garden but nothing this big.

87865

[Boz330]

I'm sure the deer will appreciate your efforts.

Bob

[AlaskanGuy]

Nice... And love the old ford 8n?? Sure wish i still had mine...

[Sgtonory]

Take a look at http://www.permaculture.org/nm/index.php/site/index/
No need to till the soil grow food like nature dose.

[John Allen]

It is a Ford 8n.

[Love Life]

Does that mean you want me to have your Colt, Bill?

[dragon813gt]

Wish I had the land to do this. I was happy seeding my 10x20 garden with winter rye last week.

[John Allen]

I'm sure the deer will appreciate your efforts.

Bob

Well, nothing an arrow won't fix.

[farmerjim]

If we move to sustainable agriculture, half the world will die of starvation. I believe in better living through chemicals on my vegetable farm. I don't use Insecticides, fungicides, and herbicides unless they are needed, but when they are, I don't hesitate. I have a 8N that I use for the light work and 2 ford 5000s for the heavier work.
Good luck in your farming. To the farmer a deer is just a Rat with antlers. They cost me thousands every year.

Farmer Jim

[rockrat]

I just call them large hairy rats here (the deer). right now they are doing a number on my oats. Forget growing corn in the garden, I come out and the plants are now 3" long, instead of 12". Need to put up a 6' fence if I want anything.

[AlaskanGuy]

He he... I called it on the tractor bill... I owned one for a long long time.... Even had trac's for mine.... Great ol workhorse.... Not much you cant do with one of them and somebody that knows how to use it.... Awesome...

[uscra112]

"Rats with antlers" my Michigan farmer friends called them. But my corn patch this year was destroyed by raccoons. Four of which succumbed to lead poisoning, but they still got it all. Next year it's going to be nuclear powered electric fence.

(I should go get a picture of the deer-fence one of my neighbors has put up. Phone poles for corner posts, heavy woven wire at least 8' high. All that's missing is the razor wire on top.)

Oh, and +1 on the Ford. Mine doesn't look that nice, but I'd be utterly lost without it. Funny thing - the last 8N was made in 1949, but so many are still running around here that my local farm equipment dealer has all the parts you might need, and they're cheap. Can't say that for any small tractors made today.

[John Allen]

I just call them large hairy rats here (the deer). right now they are doing a number on my oats. Forget growing corn in the garden, I come out and the plants are now 3" long, instead of 12". Need to put up a 6' fence if I want anything.

Rockrat, I am a little worried about this myself. Right now we have a heard of 15 deer that I see on the game cameras at night. We harvested 3 of the deer already and I am hoping once the snow start falling to get a couple more. I figure I am definitely going to need a electric fence. I did not even think about the racoons I see on the cameras I guess they are going to get it too.

[xs11jack]

Is there a way to marry a electric fencer with a Lincoln welder? I want about 10,000 volts at 200 amps. Aught to fix those furry critters right good. about 11 o'clock at nite, you see a ball of fire out there at the fence and with a few more early in the morning and they would learn or die. Just my pipe dream.
Ole Jack

[John Allen]

Is there a way to marry a electric fencer with a Lincoln welder? I want about 10,000 volts at 200 amps. Aught to fix those furry critters right good. about 11 o'clock at nite, you see a ball of fire out there at the fence and with a few more early in the morning and they would learn or die. Just my pipe dream.
Ole Jack

Jack, at that rate they will cook them for you at the same time.

[John Allen]

In certain counties (ours included) as many does as you like as long as you buy the doe tags. They are so over populated around here that you see them running around during the daytime and alongside the road eating. They have no fear. You can only shoot one buck.

[John Allen]

Bill, to give you an idea how bad it is for deer around here. In Valley Forge park which is 2 miles from us they have shot almost 1000 deer in the last three years to cull the population. Last year They did it the right way and had food processors on hand to process the meat and get it to food banks. This is from an online article, "From last November through March, the Department of Agriculture sharpshooters, armed with night-vision goggles and high-powered rifles, killed 377 deer at the park."

[dragon813gt]

Bill, to give you an idea how bad it is for deer around here. In Valley Forge park which is 2 miles from us they have shot almost 1000 deer in the last three years to cull the population.
At least they went with that plan. One of the ones they were throwing around was to capture, sterilize and release. Such a dumb idea. Valley Forge is the only place I've ever counted a herd of over fifty. And it was 5' off the road. Even Hopewell Furnace by me is over run. Counted 15 in the lower field and 9 in the one upper tonight. Federal lands with no hunting and land trusts have them completely protected. There is a reason you can buy the tags over the counter at the court house. It's mail only through most of the state. 103,000 does tags have been allotted for this WMU this year.

[John Allen]

Dragon, The biggest whitetail I ever saw in the wild was in Valley Forge. I was on my mountain bike in the woods. I was passing the powerlines and there 30 yards from me was a 10 and a 12 point and some monster that I have no idea how many points but it was so wide it made the other two deers look like babies.

[starmac]

Bill I always thought that the wildlife in the Gila had good calenders and a better grasp on the hunting proclamation than I did, elk season and the deer would just piss you off, and if I was deer hunting, you could just take your pick on elk it seemed like.

[Bret4207]

I thought you guys would appreciate this. I have 4 acres that I have decided to turn into farm land for my own food and extras for the needy. This is the first time I will be doing this on a larger scale. I always had a 20 by 30 garden but nothing this big.

87865

What exactly are you trying to do in the picture? Are you plowing? That's what it looks like. If you are then there is something really, really amiss with your set up. Your just wasting time and fuel.

[Boz330]

We don't have those numbers of deer here. In the summer when they're starving and out of water you would think so, they raids the town and farms. But summer rains and hunting season they disappear.

Ain't that the truth! I hated guiding the Mule Deer hunters. The only place that I saw any numbers was on the Pipe Ranch.
Here in KY it is one Buck and depending on which county you are in, anywhere from 3 to unlimited does.

Bob

[John Allen]

What exactly are you trying to do in the picture? Are you plowing? That's what it looks like. If you are then there is something really, really amiss with your set up. Your just wasting time and fuel.

Bret, hi I could appreciate any info. What am I doing wrong, I can always use advice. The field has not been used for farmland for at least 30 years. We used a subsoiler to break up the roots and are turning over all the grass to let it rot. We did a soil a sample everything was fine but there was no nitrogen showing up on the test kit.

[farmerjim]

Deer jump my 8 1/2 foot fence. You need 2 fences, 1 tall and then a 3 foot high 1 wire fence about 3 feet on either side of the tall one. If the deer are not familiar with electric fences, then a 1 wire about 2 1/2 feet high will work. Once they get accustomed to it they will just duck under or jump over. The ones that can't jump my fence have learned to break holes in it by ramming it in the same spot over and over. A combination of electric and high slanted fences will work best, but they are expensive. Live traps and a 22 will take care of coons, just don't stop trapping.
When the crows start pulling the corn sprouts, kill one and hang it up on a stick.
Good luck in your farming.

[uscra112]

I had a Ferguson with that color paint. So from a distance it's close. Sold it to my neighbor and sure could use it, but he takes good care of it. Ferguson had the patent on the 3 point hitch and Ford copied it. Mine was same size as a 8N, but a 4 cylinder with OH valves, it ran so good and idled smooth at 400 rpm.

Ford didn't copy it, he licensed it. He paid Harry a royalty for every tractor sold. The interesting thing to me is that there was no paper agreement, just a handshake. That's how Henry did business. When Henry gave up control of the company in the '50s, the suits that took over immediately abrogated the agreement by making some detail changes to the hydraulics and called it a new system. That's when and why Harry then started making the "Ferguson" tractors.

[uscra112]

Is there a way to marry a electric fencer with a Lincoln welder? I want about 10,000 volts at 200 amps. Aught to fix those furry critters right good. about 11 o'clock at nite, you see a ball of fire out there at the fence and with a few more early in the morning and they would learn or die. Just my pipe dream.
Ole Jack

Maybe use a TIG welder, and pulse the trigger voltage every 3-4 seconds?

[waksupi]

What exactly are you trying to do in the picture? Are you plowing? That's what it looks like. If you are then there is something really, really amiss with your set up. Your just wasting time and fuel.

Looks like fresh sod being broke, and the sod is just dropping back to the furrows. Needs a couple more plowings.

[quilbilly]

No, I am not going to loan you the mountain lion who kept the deer out of our garden all last summer while she raised her kittens. Best garden we ever had so we named her Penelope.

[Love Life]

Was that the mountain lion you showed me in the picture you had?

[rockrat]

Get a Gallager electric fence. I think some will charge 40 miles of fence and will throw a spark about 3" long. Just make sure you don't get hit by it, if you survive it, you will always remember it and give it a wide berth.

[quilbilly]

Was that the mountain lion you showed me in the picture you had?
No, this was a new one that had been kicked out by mom the previous summer. It was her first litter and we caught the big tom that bred her on our trail cam as well about when the breeding happened behind our backyard deck (got our house cats very excited that night with all the screeching). Once the kittens were big enough in August, she moved on since she had killed all the beavers, muskrats, and raccoons in the area so the deer are back. Last week we caught three black bears on our trail cam in back of the house. Every one was a "shooter" but never saw them in daylight.
P.S. - One other reason that is was nice to have "Penelope" around last summer beside deer deterrent was that I talked to some tree huggers who had a govt. grant to check the creek in back of our place for, among other things, endangered species (we occasionally have a couple). I asked them not to disturb Penelope or her kittens. The greenies went the other direction and never came back.

[starmac]

What are you planning on planting? A4 acre vegetable garden is pretty much a full time job. lol

[Bret4207]

Bret, hi I could appreciate any info. What am I doing wrong, I can always use advice. The field has not been used for farmland for at least 30 years. We used a subsoiler to break up the roots and are turning over all the grass to let it rot. We did a soil a sample everything was fine but there was no nitrogen showing up on the test kit.


My first question is, is the plow complete? Are you missing parts? Has this plow been used with success before? On a little N series a 10 or 12 inch plow should be able to be handled in sod. You should be able to run the plow 4-6" deep continuously. The sod should roll over. THis is basically what the plow should look like- http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-vQgnZOqgrUg/TbdyDjU8vsI/AAAAAAAAAKs/T5TuH24F7Vc/s1600/MOLD+BOARD+PLOUGH.jpg This is what you should see if you were behind the plow- http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-Kth5z-FBWA4/TbdV4W9jI5I/AAAAAAAAAKk/L943ZhUU-W0/s400/4%253A26_5.jpeg If you are missing the points, if the coulter is gone, if the top link is set too long, any of this can make the plow do just what you've got there.

The basic set up for the plow is to, on a righthand plow (one that throws the soil to the right), block the left side tires up 6" (assuming a 12" plow) on a fairly level surface. Set the plow down and adjust the lift arm so the plow sits level from right to left. Then adjust your top link so the plow is level fore and aft. If the point of the plow is in good shape you should see a gap along the bottom edge of the landside of 1/4" or so. If there is no gap the point is worn out. You can get by by tilting the front of the plow down so it will take the earth better, but it's not a good option. You plow by either starting at the outside edge of the field and throwing the soil out or at the center and throwing it in so that each pass lays the soil on the preceding pass.

There is a booklet you really should get- http://www.themotorbookstore.com/39ftpb.html?gclid=COTf-evF87oCFUzxOgodLGcAuQ

Ebay may have the same booklet cheaper.

I hope I didn't come across too strong. But you aren't going to be able to do anything with that ground the way it is now unless you hit it with a plow that will turn it over or a tiller. You need to get it plowed and let the winter break it down so you can disc it in spring or plan on going over it a coupe times with a good tiller in spring.

[farmerjim]

Bret4207, I think he could disc it to level and then re plow. I agree that it does not look like the moldboards are turning the soil. I have that same plow you linked to, I bought it for $75 to use on my 1946 9N. It was missing one of the coulters but it worked fine the second plowing after all the grass rotted.
I only work about 4 acres of vegetables plus another acre of sweet corn and potatoes and it takes me at least 12 hours a day to keep up.

[John Allen]

Bret, thanks for the advice. I am still learning. The moldboards were rough when I started. I will take a pic of the other side of the field. That side the moldboards were all bright and shiny. The biggest problem I had was the grass sticking to the second moldboard and clumping up.

[uscra112]

@Bret4207 - Wow, I never knew there was so much to setting up a plow!

[uscra112]

Thanks I didn't know all that. I recall Henry Ford honoring his hand shake agreements, but not his heirs. Is that possible? Also the break up with Ford/Ferguson coincided with Henry Ford's death in 1947.

Well, you have the dates right and I didn't. There's some N-series history on many of the parts supplier sites.

[Bret4207]

@Bret4207 - Wow, I never knew there was so much to setting up a plow!

I'm just scratching the surface. Plowing, good plowing, is an art. It looks completely simple but it takes years and years to learn how to do it right. There are very, very few people any more that even know what good plowing looks like. I'm a rank amateur, I've only been doing it for 30 some years. Guys with light, sandy, tame soils can do a fine job with a maladjusted plow if they have patience. Get on my heavy clay and anything but close to perfect gives you something that looks like a bomb range when you're done. I have yet to do a job I'd want any of my older neighbors to see!

[oneokie]

Agree with Bret that setting a plow is an art. The picture link he posted of what plowing should look like shows very poor plow setting. The plow should pull centered behind the tractor. If you look at that picture, the top link is offset to the right, the front bottom is only cutting about half the width it should. Having two different bottoms on a plow makes it nearly impossible to adjust for proper ground engagement.

Disagree with his suggestion for initial setting. When opening up a field, you want the plow adjusted so that all the plow bottoms are level with the rear wheels of the tractor so that all bottoms are cutting the same depth.
After opening up a field, one can readjust the plow so that all bottoms are cutting the same depth.

[Alan in Vermont]

Here's what I think is pretty good plowing. That's in sod that hadn't been turned in at least 40 years.

88154

About 3/4 acre in that patch, wonderful black loam soil. Work was done with a single 12" bottom on a 20 hp garden tractor.

[oneokie]

Yep, that's pretty.

[Bret4207]

Agree with Bret that setting a plow is an art. The picture link he posted of what plowing should look like shows very poor plow setting. The plow should pull centered behind the tractor. If you look at that picture, the top link is offset to the right, the front bottom is only cutting about half the width it should. Having two different bottoms on a plow makes it nearly impossible to adjust for proper ground engagement.

Disagree with his suggestion for initial setting. When opening up a field, you want the plow adjusted so that all the plow bottoms are level with the rear wheels of the tractor so that all bottoms are cutting the same depth.
After opening up a field, one can readjust the plow so that all bottoms are cutting the same depth.

As I said, I was barely scratching the surface. The advice I gave on initial plow setting will get him started. I recommended the book that will give him more information. The picture I provided was the first one I ran across that showed 2 furrows behind a plow, nothing like in his picture. If you want to give a complete, professional course on plowing, please, by all means go ahead and then I'll critique every word you wrote afterwords as you have done to me. In fact I can start now since your advice on initial settings when opening a field are wrong. Very often the landside plow will need to be set quite a lot deeper in order to cut a furrow at all.

[oneokie]

As I said, I was barely scratching the surface. The advice I gave on initial plow setting will get him started. I recommended the book that will give him more information. The picture I provided was the first one I ran across that showed 2 furrows behind a plow, nothing like in his picture. If you want to give a complete, professional course on plowing, please, by all means go ahead and then I'll critique every word you wrote afterwords as you have done to me. In fact I can start now since your advice on initial settings when opening a field are wrong. Very often the landside plow will need to be set quite a lot deeper in order to cut a furrow at all.

Every word? I disagreed with one part of your post, the initial setting of a mouldboard plow. I have been doing farming for many more years than you. Unless you already have a back furrow for the right side wheels to run in, the plow needs to be level from left to right for the initial pass around the field so that all bottoms are cutting close to the same depth. Then one can use your suggestion for adjusting.

As to giving a professional course on plowing, book learning is not a good way to learn. Hands on experience with trying different adjustments and immediately seeing the results is the best way to learn how to adjust a plow for the conditions at hand.

[Bret4207]

No, you approved of one part of my post and dissed the pic I provided, the suggestion I made and now you think giving the guy a reference book is a useless idea because he can't possibly pick up any information that way. Considering your history with me, I think it would be best if you do as I do and avoid commenting on my posts, just as I avoid entirely commenting on the posts of those people I simply cannot abide. Or will standing up to you be grounds for banning me too? When I was a Moderator here I found that avoiding some people worked better than agitating the situation. I would ask you to do the same. There are plenty of other posts you can comment on and plenty of other mods you can refer any possible problems you feel I cause to.

[starmac]

My uncle farmed up to 6,000 acres for years. I had to laugh at something his main farm hand said once. You would have had to know the man, but when he laid out rows, there was never a bobble in them, even half mile rows were strait as if you used a string line. My uncle leased a new section, so the rows were a mile long. Jack didn't like that as he chewed tobacco, and claimed a mile was just too long to go without spitting, which would cause a bobble in his perfect rows. lol

[dagger dog]

Ferguson?

Ford (Henry) and Ferguson had a thing going from the 40's to the 50's, Ford used Ferguson's hydraulic 3 point hitch system on the 7 and 8N's, he didn't pay the royalties for the patent, the court decided in Ferguson's favor but by that time he was bankrupt. Once Ferguson produced his own TO (tractor overseas) 20's and 30's, they ,were near the same as the Ford 8N series except for the paint schemes and engines, which Ford produced his own.

Later the Ferguson TO 35's TO 50's used Continental overhead valve engines, the 8N series were flathead, valves in block.

A little known fact is Harry Ferguson invented the spring loaded linchpin along with his 3 point hydraulic system that is the industry standard for all modern tractors.

[dagger dog]

John,

I have about 6 acres of which 3 could be turned into a truck farm, but it lays on a hillside and would have to be terraced to keep the erosion from taking the top soil, plus the soil is hardpan red clay and has to be amended with plenty of humus from organic source.

I plan to do some terracing this coming year on a south facing slope, will use it for my sweet corn.

All I have now is a "potato" plow so it takes double the time for me and "Big Red" my '59 Ferguson TO 35. But I have more time than money so it all works out.

Sure wish you well, and hope you have a good year with plenty of fair weather. Nothing can compare to the quality of the produce and the great feeling of satisfaction that comes with working your own land.

[Bret4207]

My uncle farmed up to 6,000 acres for years. I had to laugh at something his main farm hand said once. You would have had to know the man, but when he laid out rows, there was never a bobble in them, even half mile rows were strait as if you used a string line. My uncle leased a new section, so the rows were a mile long. Jack didn't like that as he chewed tobacco, and claimed a mile was just too long to go without spitting, which would cause a bobble in his perfect rows. lol

You ride along up here and see the BTO's (Big Time Operators) barreling along with a 175-200 hp 4wd articulated tractor ripping the sod up with 8 bottoms and generally making a mess of things. Then you go a mile down the road and there's an Amish kid behind a 3 up with a single bottom sulky plow turning perfect furrows in dead straight lines. I know one is getting a lot more land covered, but I also know which one is doing a better job!

[starmac]

When my uncle started farming, There was no such a thing as 8 row equipment. There are people that resented his success as a farmer, but when he started he ran 2 tractors at a time with the aid of a furrow guide. He spent half of very long days running to catch the tractor. You don't see that kind of ambition these days at all, much less common.

[Bret4207]

Up here if you aren't milking at least 100 head they call you a "hobby farmer". There isn't a hobby in the world this hard or expensive!

I broke the apron chain on a spreader once. (Well, actually I broke it repeatedly until I replaced the worn out chain, but that's not important right now.) So there I am with about a ton and half of soggy manure in -10F weather. Gotta clean it out of I'll have a frozen block of krap till June. Can't just fork it all off in one spot, nope. So I put the old Ford in 1st and idled her down to about 300 rpm. I sort of aimed her across the field and manage to climb into the spreader without getting "squarshed" as my FIL would say. Naturally, as soon as I came into view of the road, every local farmer, gossipy housewife, local know it all, minister, blabby mouthed teenage mother and the entire Schwartentruber Amish sect took that opportunity to pass by my farm. Apparently they'd never seen a Homer Simpson lookalike desperately forking soggy bedding and manure at breakneck speed for a minute and half and them jumping out of the spreader and onto the tractor to aim it away from a fence or ditch and then clumsily try to get back into the spreader and fork krap for another minute or 2. I understand it was high entertainment. It must have been, I'm still hearing about it 10 years later......

[starmac]

When we first started grinding hay, we rented a chain floor trailer. lol One broken chain and forking out 20 tons of ground alfalfa put us in the market for a live bottom quick. lol

I made a living for several years supplying hay to dairies, but a 100 cow dairy is a thing of the past in that part of the country, 1000 cow is even considered small anymore.

[Bret4207]

Yeah, we've got several milking 2500-3500 I think. 3x a day, 24/7/365. They last maybe 2-3 lactations and become McDonalds burgers. Whata life...

[starmac]

I used to haul a lot of ground hay to smaller dairies in East Texas, and there are still a few, but the epa has pretty much put them out of business.

My wifes has an Aunt that claimed a holstein would be the worst life on earth, artificial insemenated and milked by a machine their whole life. lol

Most of the dairy cows never even see a blade of grass again after they come fresh.

[Bret4207]

Believe it or not, there's a guy down the road from me a couple miles milking 15 head. Guernseys at that! The Amish up here tend to milk a dozen or so for each family. And we have a couple of outfits milking Jerseys exclusively and grazing them. I tell ya, you get so sick of seeing black and white cows around here that when you see a Guernsey or Jersey or Brown Swiss it'll almost make you stop just to look.

You wouldn't believe the people that will stop and stare at my sheep. Have we really come that far from the land that 100 sheep is a rare sight? Must be.

[Bret4207]

duplicate

[dragon813gt]

Most of the dairy farms around me are still small operations. 100 head is on the high end. But this is due to farm size. There are no 1000+ acre farms. Most are around 400 acres. The sad part is that they are shutting down and *hitty home builders like Toll Brothers and Pulte are buying the land up and building McMansions that start falling apart in less than a year. How we've gotten to the point where homes are a disposable commodity is beyond me. There is no way those homes will be standing in 100+ years like mine is.