Copper and Lead

[T-Man]

I've been thinking of a project. Procuring copper tubing as close to finished bullet size as possible. Filling it with melted lead, gas checking it, and run it through a LEE bullet sizing die. The problem is forming the nose. I was considering threading the inside of a LEE bullet sizer and using my trusty Dremel to mill out a nose shaping insert, plop the bullet on the ram, and shove it home with a grunt to form. Any ideas?

[Beagle333]

Sounds ambitious, at least! :D

[T-Man]

Ambition can be good. It might also drive me insane pursuing this project

[abqcaster]

you'll need a way to tap the boolit back out, and you'll also need a sufficiently strong press.

[xyankeeworkshop]

There's a youtube video floating around out there from a guy who successfully converted a Lee push-thru sizer into a derimming die to convert .22LR brass into raw .224 jackets. He never got to the point-forming dies as far as I know.

This thread is gonna give me some really good bad ideas. I can see it now.

It's puzzled me for years why Lee hasn't gotten into the .22LR --> .224 jacketed game for cheapskates like me. I guess this will give some insight. Go git 'em, T.Man.

[abqcaster]

this one? http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?98658-Lee-224-Size-Die-for-22lr-DeRim

[xyankeeworkshop]

No, this one - decidedly less, um...precise. Still, it worked.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K9IAcEI73QM

[Garyshome]

Flying trash can's!!!!! that might be a good idea.

[abqcaster]

:D Yeah xyankeeworkshop, but it get s the point across.

[xyankeeworkshop]

Spitballing: Has anyone ever tried hacking up a slightly larger Lee seating die for use in point-forming? A bullet diameter blind hole in the ram could keep the bullet base centered and the looser fit in the die could eliminate the ejection problem. Would another pass through a regular, unaltered bullet sizing die would iron out the bulge left over from point-sizing in a loose chamber?

Don't laugh. I know less than zero about swaging.

[Dale in Louisiana]

Swaging isn't my thing either, but I seem to remember that you always swage UP, using the lead to push out into the copper, because essentially, lead is a 'dead' metal, but copper has a certain amount of spring-back, even if annealed. If you swage the copper down with the lead inside, the copper will spring back slightly leaving the lead core somewhat loose.

Can somebody correct me if I'm wrong?

dale in Louisiana
(spending the night in Minden, LA)

[w5pv]

Hi Dale

[xyankeeworkshop]

Ah, so sizing down to smooth things out after the fact ain't gonna happen.

Nevertheless, I still wonder if the basics of what's really needed isn't already contained on an off the shelf reloading die just like the derimmer above.

[220swiftfn]

Get thee to the "swaging" forum.

Yes, there are dies and other assorted "stuff" for people that do this..... Also, I'd suggest starting to look for an RCBS A2 (the forged one) now if you really want to get into it, it was designed for the forces involved with swaging......


Dan

[runfiverun]

nope Dale you have it correct.

I have used a swage set that makes a 228 diameter bullet from 22 lr brass.
the final step is to size them back down to 224, it tears up the bases on a lot of the bullets.
they are great for shooting at rocks and are even pretty dang accurate if you pick and sort through them keeping the good ones separated.

[Sasquatch-1]

I can't remember if I saw it here or somewhere else on the internet, but there was a guy who took a rifle neck sizing die and used it as a point forming die. He did have a small piece that had to be trimmed from the nose of the bullet. I think he said he used a lathe to help trim the nose. This was for either a 44 or 45 bullet.

[Prospector Howard]

I'm curious what brand of dies they were. I had a discussion with another member here about a certain manufacturers dies that were made that way, that he owned. He defended the way they were made, and I couldn't understand making them that way. The thread got so ridiculous that a moderator deleted the whole thread.
nope Dale you have it correct.

I have used a swage set that makes a 228 diameter bullet from 22 lr brass.
the final step is to size them back down to 224, it tears up the bases on a lot of the bullets.
they are great for shooting at rocks and are even pretty dang accurate if you pick and sort through them keeping the good ones separated.

[Prospector Howard]

I've read most of the threads on this swaging section, and there have been alot of "ideas" on how to swage on the cheap and improvise an easier way. It always seems to end up the same way: going back to the traditional tried and true methods. I don't want to discourage innovation, but it's done the way it's done for alot of reasons, including safety reasons. There have been some people on here that have been very successful making their own dies, and reading those threads is a great way to get going in the right direction. Caneman has some great info on his threads and has been very successful on his projects. Also think about the cost of copper tubing and gas checks. The biggest innovation made in swaging is the use of scrap brass cases as jackets, mostly because of the low cost. If your not saving money, what's the point?

[Utah Shooter]

I'm curious what brand of dies they were. I had a discussion with another member here about a certain manufacturers dies that were made that way, that he owned. He defended the way they were made, and I couldn't understand making them that way. The thread got so ridiculous that a moderator deleted the whole thread.

I shot bullets from those dies and they worked fine. Is this the thread you are talking about?

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?111634-going-to-start-making-224-swaging-dies

[Utah Shooter]

I can't remember if I saw it here or somewhere else on the internet, but there was a guy who took a rifle neck sizing die and used it as a point forming die. He did have a small piece that had to be trimmed from the nose of the bullet. I think he said he used a lathe to help trim the nose. This was for either a 44 or 45 bullet.

Here you go!

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?132795-My-home-made-45-cal-swaging-dies

[Sasquatch-1]

This isn't the same one I saw but I think it is better.


Here you go!

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?132795-My-home-made-45-cal-swaging-dies

[Prospector Howard]

I was hoping that Runfiverun would verify the die maker, before I comment again. The thread I was talking about got deleted because of some name calling and such (not by me). If they were the same dies that Runfiverun used as the thread you posted then he seemed to think that sizing them down from .228 to .224 "tears up the bases on alot of the bullets". I was curious because it seemed like making the dies that way wasn't a great idea to me. I'm not saying the dies won't work. I just think that if the dies work that way, then the process as to how you size them down at the end should be disclosed to potential customers.
I shot bullets from those dies and they worked fine. Is this the thread you are talking about?

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?111634-going-to-start-making-224-swaging-dies