cast boolit whitetail buck questions

[Anonym]

I will have to post a pic from my computer, but I shot my first deer with a cast boolit and have a couple questions.

I recently had shoulder surgery, so I cast up some 454190 boolit from coww lead and loaded them over 11 grains of Unique and a CCI Mag primer. This boolit shoots unsized very well out of my Contender Carbine with a Super 16 straight 45 Colt barrel ( at least from what little I've shot it since my surgery).

So anyway, I had a decent 7 pointer walk past me in my makeshift ground blind at 10 yards, so I dropped some lead into the boiler room. The buck did the death kick and ran down the hill about 40 yards and I heard him crash and pile up. Quick and easy with minimal effort to recover.

At the point of impact, there was a couple clumps of fur and a very light spray of blood. There was no blood at all on the trail. I had complete pass - through with the boolit, but the exit wound showed no noticeable expansion and there was zero blood at either hole, even with him laying on the side.

I opened him up to find both lungs annihilated and the top of the heart disintegrated. Everything above the diaphragm was full of blood, but not a drop spilled out of the holes.

So do I need to do something different in my lead composition to promote some expansion? Do I need to consider a different boolit design like a hollow point? Or was this a fluke and not have anything to worry about? I always pick my shots being a single shot or black powder hunter, but blood trails are always appreciated!

Thanks for any advice in advance.

[357maximum]

Sometimes they simply die before they leak.....you have no issues and you certainly need no hollow point. At the speed and pressure you are launching that boolit a slightly softer alloy may be in order however.

Congrats by the way...fun is it not? :mrgreen:

[Anonym]

Well YES! Not only did I kill a deer, but did it with a boolit I cast, lubed with lube I made, and enjoyed every aspect along the way!

So what are you thinking about a softer alloy? Got lots of COWW, a little SOWW, and hardly any pure lead I was saving for maxiballs. Would SOWW work? Or should I mix COWW and pure ( what percentages)? I am just about 2 months old in the boolit world, so I don't know all the ins and outs yet.

[357maximum]

Good ol 50% ww and 50% soft/pure lead is hard to beat. If by chance your groups open up a touch with the 50/50 dropping them hot from the mould into a bucket of water will fix the issue if it even pops up (doubtful). What you are shooting is not a high maintenance hard alloy loving critter. Your stick ons at 50% and your clip ons at 50% will get you real close to the alloy in which I speak if you do not find any soft/pure lead. I use alot of recycled range scrap and it tests about like 50/50 and it is cheap. An ad right here asking for soft 8-9 BHN range scrap should fill your coffers/needs for a bit.

[Anonym]

Excellent. Thanks for the info! May have to find some softer lead to mix in or see if I can find someone to do some trading...

[Grendel99]

Congrats on the buck. I shot my first cast deer this year as well. I was using the Lyman 429421 Keith bullet (WW alloy) out of a Super Blackhawk Hunter in .44 mag and shot three deer this year so far with it. I got complete pass throughs but very little blood trails. All three deer were shot through both lungs and were good solid hits. There was zero blood at the impact site and none that I could find for about the first 7-10 yards. Then after that was a small but certain blood trail. None of the deer went more than 40 yards, so it wasn't really a big deal. A good blood trail is always nice though. One thing that I think contributes to shooting out of a ground blind is that the exit hole is not lower on the body, like if you were shooting from a tree stand. So it takes longer for the blood to fill the chest cavity and reach the hole. Also, you said you hit your deer in the heart. The heart not pumping the blood out definitely contributed to a lack of a blood trail. I'm going to try a hollow point with 50/50 pure/WW's. I wouldn't say a HP is 'needed' but it doesn't hurt. I also just want to try out that bullet on a deer or hog since I already have the mold. I would try the 50/50 pure/ww mix like stated above. Should help you get some decent expansion with the velocity you are getting. I don't know all this stuff either and I'm learning as I go. Sure is fun though!

[sixshot]

Why change anything, you killed it & it only ran 40 yds, they can do that in 3 seconds. Sometimes one kill doesn't tell us much, but you got him. A big flat nose cast doesn't need expansion, put it in the right place & get complete penetration (like you did) & its over. The next one you shoot in the exact same spot might bleed like crazy. Glad you got one!

Dick

[Wolfer]

Apples to oranges here because of velocity but I've shot several deer with the lee 452-255RF with 8.8 gr unique for 970 fps from my ruger new Vaq. Very accurate but performance is exactly as you describe. I went to a 452-424 HP by Eric and blood trails are a lot better. Not much difference in the end result however, they still run about 30 yds unless the nervous system is hit. Counting the doe I shot this morning I've only recovered two HP boolits from the deer. I've dug a couple out of the ground behind them though. I never shot a deer completely length wise with the lee but I did shoot two on a very long angle and they both passed thru with possibly 36" of penatration.
I love the lee for grouse and such. It just punches a clean hole without tearing up much meat. I accidently shot a grouse this year with a HP and luckily missed most of the breast. They are extremely destructive on small critters.
My alloy is one WW to two pure so I'm pretty soft. Just my experience. Woody

[44man]

Stop the pump and nothing can spray out. Heart shot can be hard to find.

[runfiverun]

I shot a couple of deer with my 25-06 recently,a few dropped right there on the spot.
I found a small 4-5" patch of blood under the last deer that stayed put.
the last one run about 25 yards with a busted shoulder/leg joint and absolutely no heart, I had to follow foot prints in the snow to where he was.

[AlaskanGuy]

Softer alloys will give you a much better expansion, but heart shots are just that... No blood unless you shoot from above...

[waksupi]

From the damage, it sounds like it worked just fine. Destroy the heart, it doesn't pump blood.

[jhalcott]

My book shows 9 /unique as a factory duplication load, so you must be a bit FASTER than that. A slightly softer alloy MIGHT be better for you(but dead IS dead!) I'd try a 50/50 stick ons /clip ons alloy, that should be a bit softer. MY coww's come out above 11 BHN and stick ons are about 7 to 8. Mixing the two should yield a 9 BHN. BTW< congrats on the deer!

[white eagle]

read what Dick(six shot) posted again
try not to make conclusions from small results

[smkummer]

Your bullet was originally designed to go though a horse at 100 yards with a muzzle velocity of 875-900 FPS. I would agree that it might not need any improvement and from what I have learned here is that sometimes slower is just as effective. Still waiting for forum member sixpointfive to tell his story of his Smith 25-5 8 3/8" taking a deer with 9.2 grains unique, 452454 and about 25 yards. I believe he said the bullet also went through the deer. It appears big bullets kill well. I have seen deer shot with a 30-06 150 SP that still walk a ways before laying or dropping down.

[Wolfer]

That boolit is a very near copy of the original factory loads. There would be no guessing at the amount of game that has been taken since 1873.
I'm sure blood trails were scimpy then too. I went to the HP to help with the blood trails which it did a little. Like I said before I can't tell any difference in terminal performance. With either boolit rarely do deer get much out of sight. Woody

[Cheap Trick]

Sometimes a lung shot deer won't take a breath after being shot. Sometimes they will take a breath along ways after being shot. It is the act of breathing that causes blood to squirt out. The shock of a lung shot will occasionally knock the wind right out of a deer. They don't all leave a good blood trail.

[Hamish]

Stop the pump and nothing can spray out. Heart shot can be hard to find.

Years ago, two brothers in my bunch each ended up shooting the same 157" buck, heart/lung shots, less than an inch apart, bowhunting, and that deer still went 40 yards to a strip cut and swam another 30 yards.

Personally, I like to center punch the lungs, and try to catch the liver. Hypovolemic shock is magical,,,,

When Remington Copper Solids came out for the 12ga. I loved how accurate they were out of the H&R USH. But after autopsying a few deer after decidedly sparse blood trails, I swore off of them and went back to PB slugs.

Whether you are a proponent of Wide Flat Points or Hollow Points, as many have said already, be able to hit where you need to, and if you are not a good tracker, be ready to admit it and get help.

[siamese4570]

Anonym: I have had the same thing happen to me. I think that it has more to do with sitting on the ground than anything else. If you are in an elevated stand, the boolit exits on the bottom side of the deer (a drain hole). This usually leaves a good blood trail. If you are on the ground, the boolit passes thru more or less level. To get a good blood flow/trail, the deer's chest cavity must fill up to the level of the boolit hole. I'm with you on the ground blind. I don't climb trees much any more and the trees where I hunt (NE okla) are scrub oak and don't lend theselves to climbing. Just my $0.02 worth.

[DanWalker]

Try breaking big bones. I try to angle my shot so that it not only punches through the boiler room, but also busts one or more shoulders on the way through. Here's a 454424 going through the shoulders of a Gemsbok. He Still went 65 yards before piling up.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SdVeIuYrTMg

[Anonym]

Thanks for the input fellas. I definitely can't argue with the performance on the deer, was just surprised by the lack of blood. Everything said sure makes a lot of sense, and it has been YEARS since I hunted from the ground. Probably just a combination of things and being new to casting that made me doubt what I was doing. Think I'll try a mix to get a little softer boolit, but will probably stick with this. Here's a few pics!

http://i632.photobucket.com/albums/uu49/Anonym_photos/20131116_085853_zpsaa4bb0f8.jpg (http://s632.photobucket.com/user/Anonym_photos/media/20131116_085853_zpsaa4bb0f8.jpg.html)
http://i632.photobucket.com/albums/uu49/Anonym_photos/20131116_090013_zps0ba645fa.jpg (http://s632.photobucket.com/user/Anonym_photos/media/20131116_090013_zps0ba645fa.jpg.html)
http://i632.photobucket.com/albums/uu49/Anonym_photos/20131116_090053_zpsa7597483.jpg (http://s632.photobucket.com/user/Anonym_photos/media/20131116_090053_zpsa7597483.jpg.html)

[Changeling]

Try breaking big bones. I try to angle my shot so that it not only punches through the boiler room, but also busts one or more shoulders on the way through. Here's a 454424 going through the shoulders of a Gemsbok. He Still went 65 yards before piling up.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SdVeIuYrTMg

Damfantastic Dan, wait for the right shot, put it in the right place, tracking is easy. You've got your **** together! Thanks for the video.

Some guys talk about a hard/impossible tracking of an animal after a good hit for 40 or 50 yards!

Maybe they should investigate tracking techniques and ways. I suspect the Internet is full of this type information.
I've tracked deer for 1/4 mile or so for people who thought they missed because "IT" didn't drop right there.

There are a lot of things to look for besides blood, sometimes even quicker than blood trails.

[357maximum]

Dead buck + a TC= AWESOME :mrgreen:

Thanks for the belated pics. :lol:

[Geppetto]

I one time put a 150 grain 30-06 J through a small yearling from about 20 yards away. Blew lungs out the far side. The deer proceeded to run 125 yards across a field. It was like walking a red carpet. I could not believe the distance for such a small deer. I've made the same shot previous years on the same size eaters and have had them tip over on the spot. Nuthing is ever a sure thing I guess. Really excited to try the 457-405 Lee outta the 1895 next weekend.

[DanWalker]

Would definately like to hear more about that TC. That is one SWEET looking little rig!

[DanWalker]

Damfantastic Dan, wait for the right shot, put it in the right place, tracking is easy. You've got your **** together! Thanks for the video.

Thanks for the kind words. If you watch the moment of impact in slow mo you can see the impact energy ripple through his shoulder.

[Anonym]

Would definately like to hear more about that TC. That is one SWEET looking little rig!

Well, I lucked into a great deal on that from Craigslist of all places. It's a stainless steel G1 with top of the hammer selector switch. I have a Custom Shop 22 wmr Super 16 barrel for it and a standard 23" 223 barrel, but this one is another Custom Shop Super 16 chambered in straight 45 Colt (no 410 length chamber). Picked it up to hunt with here in Indiana due to our crazy firearms regulations and I've been very impressed with how it shoots for the length. I doubt it or the 22 wmr will ever leave me, and they will be great for my kids when they are big enough to handle them!