Can someone clear up my confusion? Lee 9mm dies

[bedbugbilly]

I'm getting ready to order a set of Lee 9mm Luger dies - but am not sure just exactly what I should be getting?

My plans are to use a universal depriming die to pop the primers on the range brass I have -

I'm going to be using the cast lead truncated cone nose bullet out of the Lee 356-120-TC. My reloads are going to be fired from my Ruger SR9 - and no, I haven't slugged the barrel.

I cast about 350 of these this afternoon but haven't measured them yet -I cast them out of "range lead" - they look pretty at least! :-)

To keep things consistent . . . should I get a 356 Lee push though sizing die and run everything through it before loading? (I do have a 357 and 357 Lee sizind die already).

As far as the die set - which one? The three die . . . the four die . . . ? Whichever set I get, should I also be getting a "taper crimp die" for the 9mm Luger if I am using lead bullets? What should I be getting? I cast all my own slugs and I doubt if I will ever be loading jacketed- just lead.

Someone also suggested that it would be wise to get a 38 S & W "bullet seating plunger" to switch out in the 9mm Luger bullet seating die? Will this be necessary? What problems am I potentially going to run in to with using the lead boo lets. I'm planning on ordering a "9mm Luger cartridge gauge" and will be checking the seating depth carefully to insure the proper OAL.

Also, should the seating process be done separately from the crimping process? I'm not "in a hurry" so it doesn't matter to me if it should be or not - I do that on my 38 spls.

Suggestions and recommendations please? At this point, I don't know what the advantages are of the 4 die set over the 3 die set - it's not the price difference - I just need to know what I should be getting. Many thanks.

[JonB_in_Glencoe]

if you want good answers, you need to slug your barrel.

Otherwise, I recommend a 357 sizer for the boolits.
I recommend using a 38spl expander insert in the 9mm powder thru expander die.
I don't crimp, but I use the crimp die to remove the bell in the case mouth.
Good Luck,
Jon

[Bzcraig]

I got the 4 die set load Lee 124RN and NOE 135. I don't use the 38 expander and have had no problems with any loads.

[wv109323]

The difference between the three and four die sets is in the seating. The sizing and belling dies are the same in both sets. With the three die set you must seat the bullet and crimp the case in one operation. (You will need to bell the case when using cast bullets.) The bell is necessary as not to distort the cast bullet when you are seating it. If you don't generously bell the cases with cast bullets you will shave lead off the side of the bullet. The bell should be more pronounced when using lead bullets.
Most generally all die sets are dimensioned to seat jacketed bullets. The jacketed bullets are .355 in 9mm. The 9mm cast bullet is at least .356. Some find 9MM's shoot much better with cast bullets of .357 or .358". When seating .357 or .358 bullets into a case that is probably sized .353 or .354 (for .355 bullets) you can distort the larger cast bullet. That is why some say to use the .38 Special expander which is meant for .357 or .358 bullets.
I would buy the the 4 die set because the taper crimp can be adjusted to crimp any size bullet from .355 to .358.
I would first try some cast bullets at .357 but slugging your bore may prevent you from a lot of experimenting.

[grumman581]

Why kind of press are you going to be using? That can make a difference on what dies you need and which would be useless.

[KYCaster]

The fourth die in the Lee four die set is the Factory Crimp Die......an ingenious solution looking for a problem.....completely unnecessary if you adjust your dies correctly.

The great majority of 9mm's work very well with boolits sized .357. Try that first, if that doesn't work then try .356 and .358.

I just checked and Lee and Hornady both claim that their 9mm seat/crimp dies apply the proper taper crimp....YMMV.

I've used Lee, Lyman and Dillon 9mm dies and haven't had any problems.

Jerry

[bedbugbilly]

On the press-I have a Lee 4 place turret and I also have a vintage RCBS Junior 2 and a Junior 3 single stage. I'm probably goingto be loading in batches as I'm not worried about high production - just want to be able to turn out some good ammo that will cycle well.

One of the things I'mnot clear on is the 4th die in the 4 die set - is this the "taper crimp"? Is that what they are referring to when they say "factory crimp"? Or is it a roll crimp? I was under the impression that the roll crimp was used on straight cased pistol ammo (38s, 357s, 45 Colts, etc.) and the taper crimp used on semi-auto ammo - is that correct? If you bell the mouth so it doesn't cut the lead when seating - is the 4th die a "resized"die - i.e.- removing the bell that you put in the case as well as a crimp die? If so, does this swage the diameter of the lead slug down? I have a feeling I'm probably "over thinking" this - I just don't want to order the wrong thing or find out that I should have ordered an additional taper crimp die for the 9MM. It also sounds like it wouldn't be a bad idea to order a spare 39 bell expander as well - just in case?

[grumman581]

Sounds like we have some of the same types of presses...

If you had a Dillon press and powder measure, you would not need the Lee Powder Through Expander Die, but with a single stage press or the Lee turret press, you will.

The 3 die set should consist of:
1. Die to decap and size
2. Powder Through Expander Die -- this will put a slight bell in the case mouth and then the powder can drop through the die into the case.
3. Taper Crimp and Seating Die -- this pushes the bullet into the case while at the same time doing a taper crimp

The 4 die set should also cost of:
4. Factory Crimp Die -- Does not seat the bullet, just removes the bell from the case mouth.

Personally, I have all 4 dies since I prefer to do the bullet seating separately from crimping / removing the bell. I've done it with just the 3 dies before, but I find that I have better luck with fourth operation, especially on bottleneck cartridges (e.g. .357SIG). When I'm using my Dillon press though, the Powder Through Expander Die never gets used, but I buy them anyway just in case I want to reload in my RCBS JR3 or Lee 4-hole turret press.

Before I had the Factory Crimp Dies for each caliber, I would just use a regular crimp die from a larger caliber with a golf tee inside of it as a seating die in position #3 and the proper regular crimp die for that caliber in position #4. Yeah, it sounds a bit strange, but it worked.

[dragon813gt]

4. Factory Crimp Die -- Does not seat the bullet, just removes the bell from the case mouth.


The FCD will post size the entire cartridge. This may or may not cause problems when loading cast bullets. If your bullets are oversized then there is a good chance that the bullet will be swaged down which can lead to leading issues. This will depend on the die that you own and what size bullets you shoot. I shoot .358 and it swages them down. Each dies tends to be a little different due to their quality control. I'm of the opinion that there is no need to use a FCD, I'm talking pistol style w/ carbide ring, when loading cast bullets.

[Larry Gibson]

I also use the Lee 356-120-TC extensively in numerous .35s but I use it almost 100% in my own 9mm loads. I cast a lot out of range lead also but I add 20% lead and then 2% tin to that for a better alloy. However yours out of straight RL are probably fine as range lead obviously varies from range to range and batch to batch. I size mine at .357 most often for many 9mms including several sub guns I had access to. They all shot fine. I use BAC lube on my 9mm bullets these days with complete success and no or minimal leading which cleans out easily. My standard load is that bullet over 4 gr Bullseye.

Get the 4 die set. That what if yu need to use the FCD to ensure 100% chambering it is there. Most often I do no use (I load on a Dillon SDB with Dillon dies and on the 550B with the Lee 4 die set) the FCD unless it is needed.

Larry Gibson

[bedbugbilly]

Thank you all for the info - greatly appreciated. I ordered the 4 die Lee set tonight along with a few other things from Titan. By the time I get done . . . I'll probably break even on my reloads around 2030 or so . . :-) The necessity of reloading has quickly turned in to a hobby . . . but I'm having fun and that's what it's all about. Thank you all again!

[gwpercle]

Get the 4-die set, read the instructions carefully when seeting up dies, J-word bullet loading is a bit different than cast boolit loading. Try .357 boolits first. They might be perfect in your gun. My Walther P-38 prefers .357 sized . I don't know what profile the boolit seating stem is on a set of lee's dies...but you want the nose of the boolit to match the stem...the truncated cone boolit will need a stem with a flat spot, not a typical round nose shape... don't know how to solve that one sxcept to use a small ball of plumber's epoxy putty to form a custom shaped nose profile.
Truth is we don't really do this to save money, we shoot more and it's FUN.
Gary

[bedbugbilly]

Thanks Gary - appreciate your info. I ordered an extra bullet seating stem (or whatever they call it) as I figured that I might have to alter one in order not to deform the lead slug. Somewhere on this forum, I though I saw a member who was making these seating stems custom for the bullet you are using. I'll give what I have a try and see how it goes - I'll probably track him down and have a custom one made for the slug I'm using.

[grumman581]

I ordered an extra bullet seating stem (or whatever they call it) as I figured that I might have to alter one in order not to deform the lead slug. Somewhere on this forum, I though I saw a member who was making these seating stems custom for the bullet you are using. I'll give what I have a try and see how it goes - I'll probably track him down and have a custom one made for the slug I'm using.

I have used a golf tee as a seating stem in a pinch when I wanted to separate the seating and crimping operations. Lee doesn't sell multiple seating stem bullet profiles, so I have to assume that they don't consider it all that important for most people. Are you using some fragile pointed bullet or something?

[bedbugbilly]

grumman581 - not really - I'm going to use the Lee 356-120-TC as it was suggested by another member who uses it and has good luck with the boolet in his SR9 (which is what I'll be loading for). I just ordered a spare seating stem "just in case" I had a problem and had to alter one - they aren't that expensive and at worst case scenario, it will gather dust in my spare parts box. The first batch that I've molded up are out of range lead so I don't think the nose will deform when seated. I'm just trying to get my "ducks in a row" so if there is a problem, I can address it. I have measured a random sampl of my cast boolits that I've made so far and they seem to be dropping from the mold at around .357 so I'm hoping they'll work just fine "as cast".

[725]

Lots of good info above. Personally, I like a taper crimp. Seems to have improved reliability. Properly adjusted dies will get the job done.

[KCSO]

My smallest 9mm is .355 and my largest is .357 and a 357 bullet works reasonably well in all of them.

[nicholst55]

By the time I get done . . . I'll probably break even on my reloads around 2030 or so . . :-) The necessity of reloading has quickly turned in to a hobby . . . but I'm having fun and that's what it's all about. Thank you all again!

Trust me, you're never 'done' buying reloading gear!

[jmort]

"Trust me, you're never 'done' buying reloading gear!"

Seemingly not. Always another "MUST HAVE."

[gunoil]

it never ends. But ya can reach a level of stop for a while while ya save some more money. I run a ruger barrel in a tcp380. l size coated bullets @.355. No probs.

I want figure out how u guys will help design a seat/lite taper in one die without ANY shaving. The golf tee thing or what? How in the world could it be done? It would save a hole for my bullet drop die. And l could even put powder check die back on. 8 stations on my press. Oh l can do it with copper plated bullets.

[armedmoose]

I own Lee 4 set dies in 9mm But I never used the Lee Crimp Die.

I've actually moved to a franken 9mm Kit... Lee U-Die, Hornady Seating, and Redding Crimp, I feel it gives me more consistent ammo production especially with the range brass pickups that I use.



I want figure out how u guys will help design a seat/lite taper in one die without ANY shaving. The golf tee thing or what? How in the world could it be done? It would save a hole for my bullet drop die. And l could even put powder check die back on. 8 stations on my press. Oh l can do it with copper plated bullets.

Flare the case a little more is the only thing I can think of. You will need to do this anyhow to get a bullet drop die to work consistently. Getting that flare opened, then drop bullet in the brass, a little seating and taper crimp in a single die should be good to go.

[Magana559]

I still have yet to figure out a cast load that my SR9c likes. It will take any Jacketed or any plated but all cast have been leaving lead in the barrel...no more key holes so thats good.