ohland
11-16-2013, 01:03 AM
Scrounged up some descriptions for .257 diameter molds from a variety of sources. If some of you-all have better descriptions from Ideal or Lyman catalogs, please post to this thread with the correction or description of the boolit.
Disclaimer: It is well known that (at times) cherries have been used too long, with undersized cavities resulting. Some throats are too big compared to the groove diameter. Over time, manufacturers held different tolerances and dimensions for the chamber and bore. Different alloys will turn out different diameters. What follows below is simply a collection of the various Ideal and Lyman mold descriptions, which does NOT mean that any particular mold will cast a boolit like you expect. What does this mean? Slug your bore if you don't know the bore/groove dimensions for your gun. If the mold is undersize, you may have to beagle / lap it out some. [ed]
NOTE: Any loads mentioned are taken from period documents, and are not in any way tested. Please refer to modern loading manuals for safe loads. [ed]
v/r,
A fellow servant to the heavy metal :coffee:
.257 is the proper diameter for bullets of all the .25 caliber central fire arms now made. For the various .25 caliber rifles, however, there is a variety of ammunition of different lengths and shapes, which is causing much confusion among dealers and customers. Note particularly that there are two different .25-20 cartridges. Both of them are bottle neck, but of different shape, and the cartridges are of different lengths over all, so that reloading tools correct for one will not load the other.
252435 For the .25 ACP. Plain base bullet. Casts .253 dia. (PB, RN, 51 - TP is 203)
25716. This is the .25-36 Marlin series. The points are of the Standard Shape. The regular reloading tools for 25-36 M. seats them and the metal jacketed bullets. This is a fine lot of bullets for both long and short range. (PB, FN, 80, 90, 100, 110, 120, 130 140 Also Perfection – TP is 420)
25717. This is the .25-35 Winchester series. Loading tool that is correct for the regular .25-35 Winchester metal patched bullets will seat any of these, one groove will project beyond the muzzle of shell so that bullets will have a longer bearing to hold on to the quick twist rifling. For short range bullets, note the 78 grains weight and bullet No. 25721, both seat with the regular tool. (PB, FN, 66, 78, 91, 108, 117, 125, 157, Also Perfection - TP is 420)
25718. This is the .25 caliber Long Sharp Pointed; it is only intended for long heavy weights. The sharp point prevents the tearing of game. The regular crimp shoulder has been omitted on this ball by request, as some shooters prefer the groove filled with lubrication first to strike the barrel, rather than dry lead. We have good reports from this ball. (PB, SP, 70, 80, 90, 100, 110, 120, 130 – TP is 498)
25719. These are the .25 caliber short, sharp pointed bullets of which there has been so much written. For short range and small game there are none better. Even at 52 grains you have a perfectly balanced bullet with two grooves for lubrication. From all this series we have the finest reports. Special chambers are required to seat all sharp pointed bullets. (PB, SP, 52, 62, 73, 84, 95, 106, 116, 127 – TP is 418)
25720. This is the regular old standard .25-20 Stevens series. Any of these weights are correct for the .25-20 Stevens and Winchester single shot, .25-20 Marlin and Winchester repeating rifles, .25-25 and .25-21 Stevens Straight. They may be seated in any chamber that is correct for any of the above cartridges. The light weights are also fine for short range. Being short pointed they make well balanced short range bullets for any of the heavier .25 caliber rifles. 77 and 86 grain bullets were regular list. (PB, FN, 46, 56, 67, 77, 86, 96 Also Perfection – TP is 420)
25721. This is the .25-35 Winchester 87 grain, short range bullet. It may be seated in any regular reloading tool that is correct for the standard cartridge with metal jacketed bullet. (Read also about No. 25717) (PB, FN, 87 – TP is 420)
25727. Express bullets. Can make them of weights other than the one specified. If desired for the .25-20, .25-35, .25-36 or others, state number of bullet and weight wanted when ordering. (PB, FN, 75 HP – TP is ?)
25728. Round bullet. Used by some for light indoor work or very short range. They shoot nicely with a very small charge; if too much powder is used, they will be apt to jump the rifling. (26 – TP is ?)
25729. This is the .25-36 Marlin short range. It will seat all right in the regular tool made for the standard .25-36 Marlin metal jacketed bullet. Please note that it has good length of bearing. (PB, FN, 90 – TP is ?)
25730. This is made as the Standard .25-36 Marlin for full charge of black or low pressure powders. Seats correctly in same chamber that seats the metal patched bullet. (PB, FN, 110 – TP is ?)
25731. This bullet, for patching with paper, is cast in the Cylindrical mould. Moulds for casting bullets of the proper size for patching up to the .25 caliber are made with the Leopold, round or flat point. These bullets are being used with the quick twist rifles and high pressure powders. (PB, ? – TP is ?)
257205. This is a .25 calibre bullet designed by Perry D. Franzer. The point is of the standard shape, and may be seated with chambers that are correct for the .25-20 repeating and single shot rifles, also .25-21 and .25-25 Stevens. The broad base band is preferred by many. (PB, FN, 80 – TP is 420)
257231. This is like the No. 308206 Kephart. The front groove is for catching dirt or holding lubrication. These different weights will be found good for all of the various .25 calibers. (PB, FN, 66, 88, 111 Also Perfection – TP is 420)
257283 Designed especially for smokeless powders in 25 caliber repeating rifles. Should be crimped in beveled groove. (PB, FN, 85 – TP is 420)
257285 A flat point bullet with dirt scraper band and groove for 25 calibers. (PB, FN, 87 – TP is 420)
257306 Designed for high velocity in the .25-35 and .25-36 rifles. Also good for other 25 calibers. (GC, FN, 115 – TP is 420)
257312 Designed for high velocity in the .25-20 single shot and repeaters. Also good for other 25 calibers. (GC, FN, 89 – TP is 420)
257325 Designed for high velocity in the .25-35 Remington Automatic. (GC, RN, 113 – TP is 325)
257361 Designed by Ed P. Bernard of Yokohama, Japan for .25-20 S.S. or repeater if loaded as single shot with 4 grains of Unique. (PB, SP, 81 – TP is 418)
257382 Excellent plain base flat point bullet for 25 calibers. (PB, FN, 88 – TP is 420)
257388 Designed for 250-3000 Savage. Also good for other 25 calibers (GC, SP, 80 – TP is 418)
257418 Standard Spitzer gas-check bullet which is very popular for the .257 as well as other 25 caliber cartridges. (GC, SP, 98 – TP is 418)
257420 Designed primarily for Australian jack-rabbit shooting. (GC, FN, 65 – TP is 420)
257454 A fine H. Guy Loverin design for the .257 and other 25 caliber cartridges. (GC, RN, 92 – TP is 463)
257463 A very fine lightweight bullet. An H. Guy Loverin design. (GC, RN, 75 – TP is 463)
257464 An excellent bullet of H. Guy Loverin design. Very accurate at target up to 500 yards and a good game bullet. (GC, RN, 89 – TP is 463)
Disclaimer: It is well known that (at times) cherries have been used too long, with undersized cavities resulting. Some throats are too big compared to the groove diameter. Over time, manufacturers held different tolerances and dimensions for the chamber and bore. Different alloys will turn out different diameters. What follows below is simply a collection of the various Ideal and Lyman mold descriptions, which does NOT mean that any particular mold will cast a boolit like you expect. What does this mean? Slug your bore if you don't know the bore/groove dimensions for your gun. If the mold is undersize, you may have to beagle / lap it out some. [ed]
NOTE: Any loads mentioned are taken from period documents, and are not in any way tested. Please refer to modern loading manuals for safe loads. [ed]
v/r,
A fellow servant to the heavy metal :coffee:
.257 is the proper diameter for bullets of all the .25 caliber central fire arms now made. For the various .25 caliber rifles, however, there is a variety of ammunition of different lengths and shapes, which is causing much confusion among dealers and customers. Note particularly that there are two different .25-20 cartridges. Both of them are bottle neck, but of different shape, and the cartridges are of different lengths over all, so that reloading tools correct for one will not load the other.
252435 For the .25 ACP. Plain base bullet. Casts .253 dia. (PB, RN, 51 - TP is 203)
25716. This is the .25-36 Marlin series. The points are of the Standard Shape. The regular reloading tools for 25-36 M. seats them and the metal jacketed bullets. This is a fine lot of bullets for both long and short range. (PB, FN, 80, 90, 100, 110, 120, 130 140 Also Perfection – TP is 420)
25717. This is the .25-35 Winchester series. Loading tool that is correct for the regular .25-35 Winchester metal patched bullets will seat any of these, one groove will project beyond the muzzle of shell so that bullets will have a longer bearing to hold on to the quick twist rifling. For short range bullets, note the 78 grains weight and bullet No. 25721, both seat with the regular tool. (PB, FN, 66, 78, 91, 108, 117, 125, 157, Also Perfection - TP is 420)
25718. This is the .25 caliber Long Sharp Pointed; it is only intended for long heavy weights. The sharp point prevents the tearing of game. The regular crimp shoulder has been omitted on this ball by request, as some shooters prefer the groove filled with lubrication first to strike the barrel, rather than dry lead. We have good reports from this ball. (PB, SP, 70, 80, 90, 100, 110, 120, 130 – TP is 498)
25719. These are the .25 caliber short, sharp pointed bullets of which there has been so much written. For short range and small game there are none better. Even at 52 grains you have a perfectly balanced bullet with two grooves for lubrication. From all this series we have the finest reports. Special chambers are required to seat all sharp pointed bullets. (PB, SP, 52, 62, 73, 84, 95, 106, 116, 127 – TP is 418)
25720. This is the regular old standard .25-20 Stevens series. Any of these weights are correct for the .25-20 Stevens and Winchester single shot, .25-20 Marlin and Winchester repeating rifles, .25-25 and .25-21 Stevens Straight. They may be seated in any chamber that is correct for any of the above cartridges. The light weights are also fine for short range. Being short pointed they make well balanced short range bullets for any of the heavier .25 caliber rifles. 77 and 86 grain bullets were regular list. (PB, FN, 46, 56, 67, 77, 86, 96 Also Perfection – TP is 420)
25721. This is the .25-35 Winchester 87 grain, short range bullet. It may be seated in any regular reloading tool that is correct for the standard cartridge with metal jacketed bullet. (Read also about No. 25717) (PB, FN, 87 – TP is 420)
25727. Express bullets. Can make them of weights other than the one specified. If desired for the .25-20, .25-35, .25-36 or others, state number of bullet and weight wanted when ordering. (PB, FN, 75 HP – TP is ?)
25728. Round bullet. Used by some for light indoor work or very short range. They shoot nicely with a very small charge; if too much powder is used, they will be apt to jump the rifling. (26 – TP is ?)
25729. This is the .25-36 Marlin short range. It will seat all right in the regular tool made for the standard .25-36 Marlin metal jacketed bullet. Please note that it has good length of bearing. (PB, FN, 90 – TP is ?)
25730. This is made as the Standard .25-36 Marlin for full charge of black or low pressure powders. Seats correctly in same chamber that seats the metal patched bullet. (PB, FN, 110 – TP is ?)
25731. This bullet, for patching with paper, is cast in the Cylindrical mould. Moulds for casting bullets of the proper size for patching up to the .25 caliber are made with the Leopold, round or flat point. These bullets are being used with the quick twist rifles and high pressure powders. (PB, ? – TP is ?)
257205. This is a .25 calibre bullet designed by Perry D. Franzer. The point is of the standard shape, and may be seated with chambers that are correct for the .25-20 repeating and single shot rifles, also .25-21 and .25-25 Stevens. The broad base band is preferred by many. (PB, FN, 80 – TP is 420)
257231. This is like the No. 308206 Kephart. The front groove is for catching dirt or holding lubrication. These different weights will be found good for all of the various .25 calibers. (PB, FN, 66, 88, 111 Also Perfection – TP is 420)
257283 Designed especially for smokeless powders in 25 caliber repeating rifles. Should be crimped in beveled groove. (PB, FN, 85 – TP is 420)
257285 A flat point bullet with dirt scraper band and groove for 25 calibers. (PB, FN, 87 – TP is 420)
257306 Designed for high velocity in the .25-35 and .25-36 rifles. Also good for other 25 calibers. (GC, FN, 115 – TP is 420)
257312 Designed for high velocity in the .25-20 single shot and repeaters. Also good for other 25 calibers. (GC, FN, 89 – TP is 420)
257325 Designed for high velocity in the .25-35 Remington Automatic. (GC, RN, 113 – TP is 325)
257361 Designed by Ed P. Bernard of Yokohama, Japan for .25-20 S.S. or repeater if loaded as single shot with 4 grains of Unique. (PB, SP, 81 – TP is 418)
257382 Excellent plain base flat point bullet for 25 calibers. (PB, FN, 88 – TP is 420)
257388 Designed for 250-3000 Savage. Also good for other 25 calibers (GC, SP, 80 – TP is 418)
257418 Standard Spitzer gas-check bullet which is very popular for the .257 as well as other 25 caliber cartridges. (GC, SP, 98 – TP is 418)
257420 Designed primarily for Australian jack-rabbit shooting. (GC, FN, 65 – TP is 420)
257454 A fine H. Guy Loverin design for the .257 and other 25 caliber cartridges. (GC, RN, 92 – TP is 463)
257463 A very fine lightweight bullet. An H. Guy Loverin design. (GC, RN, 75 – TP is 463)
257464 An excellent bullet of H. Guy Loverin design. Very accurate at target up to 500 yards and a good game bullet. (GC, RN, 89 – TP is 463)