Reloader 7

[KCSO]

I was recently given a pound or so of Reloader 7 and was thinking of trying it in my 30 caliber rifles. I remember reading that this powder gave good accuracy with less pressure than Unique. Has anyone here used it and what were the results.

[felix]

Load RL7 as IMR4198. In some situations it is very slightly faster than 4198, and in other situations it is very slightly slower than IMR4198. Older lots of RL7 had circa 5 percent nitroglycerin, and the newer lots have circa 10 percent. Speed of the latter new has been slightly faster than the older lot. Again, before and after IMR4198. RL7 has nothing to do with Unique. Completely different animals, and they should not be compared pressure wise at all. ... felix

[PatMarlin]

I'm breaking in my .223 with condom copper and Reloader 7. Pretty darn accurate. Also economical.

[BlueMoon]

RL-7 is one of my favorites for gc'ed cast bullets in the 30-06 and 30/30 but there are many powders that work with the right combination. Unique is a pistol powder and RL-7 is a rifle powder. For me, using RL-7 or 4198 is one step up in slow for cast rifle loads from 4227 or 2400.

Bill

[KCSO]

I wasn't comparing the powders on a grain by grain basis, but I had heard that R 7 with appropriate loads would push a bullet as fast as Unique with less pressure. The example I was given involved 10 grs of Unique compared to 17 grains of Reloader. I already see that by volume it is very close to IMR 4198. I'll see how it works in 30-30 and 765 Argie and go from there

Thanks

[felix]

There would be no problem of filling up a large pistol case with RL7, especially when using low power primers to keep the boolit intact for as long as possible. The granules should be small enough to let enough powder in the case to push the boolit fast enough. Other powders, like 680, have too much deterrent, or like N120, too big in granularity. It other words, it is worth a try or two using RL7. ... felix

[The Nyack Kid]

Reloader 7 is One of the best powders for the 45-70 . this powder has been around for quite some time and reloading data is easy anough to come across . i have seen data for the 300 h&h with lead boolits using this powder.

[Newtire]

Hi,
Good ol' RX-7 (RL-7) is a great powder for reduced loads in the '06. When ya want to load some FLGC bullets to .30-30 velocity for getting a youngster interested in shooting. 33-38 gr. with 125-150 gr. is one accurate load. For cast, I used 25 gr. with a 210 gr. Lyman 311290 for some of the best shooting cast loads ever in my Springfield. Used it in my .444 Marlin with some pretty hefty charges & cast & it was great shooting in that gun (that gun is no challenge, it likes anything!). In my .30-30's, it is one of those powders I had great luck with up to about 25 gr. & any 150 gr. cast. Good powder I'd say.

[Bent Ramrod]

Reloder 7 is basically a species of IMR- or H-4198 that is much easier to meter through a powder measure. I use 20 grains of Reloder 7 behind 155-gr SAECO cast GC's in my .30 Remington for 2" groups at 100 yards with iron sights. It's the rimless equivalent of a .30-30 so a similar load should work in that cartridge.

[PatMarlin]

A question comes to mind...

My Dillon progressive 550B's powder measure is metering RL7 mostly plus or minus 1/10 of a grain with many dumps right on, and the worst rarity 2/10 off.

With 18 grains of RL7 in the .223 cartridge should 1-2/10 difference of a grain make much of a difference in accuracy?

[felix]

With 18 grains of RL7 in the .223 cartridge should 0.2 grain variation make much of a difference in accuracy? ... marlinlover

Probably just a tad because your pressure is quite low. But to prove it, which is easy to do, is to load 10 rounds with exactly 18.0, and 10 rounds with exactly 18.2.

Shoot 5 rounds with 18.0, and 5 rounds with 18.2, into a group for each. Pay attention to group size of each only, and not to relative placement of the two groups.

Now shoot 10 rounds of 18.0 and 18.2 together after mixing the cartridges randomly, and shoot them all into one group.

If all three groups are the same according to your accuracy criteria for any one group, then you know the answer to your real question.

felix

[buck1]

"" I had heard that R 7 with appropriate loads would push a bullet as fast as Unique with less pressure""

I'm with ya...
YES! With the --appropiate--Loads of R7 and most listed rifle powders, you can push a 30 cal rifle bullet as fast or faster and with less pressure than you will with the appropiate loads of unique and most pistol powders!
Lymans loading book shows this very well. Although pistol powders do have their place in rifles, the bigest draw for me is .. Less powder = less cost per round, amoung others.
For example only...In the 3030 win with a 311291 the R7 starting load is 19.0 gr@ 1635 FPS/20,200 CUP. Wile the starting load for unique is 7.0 gr @1211FPS/19,800 cup.
As per lyman#46.
Is that what you were looking for?
.....Buck

[PatMarlin]

With 18 grains of RL7 in the .223 cartridge should 0.2 grain variation make much of a difference in accuracy? ... marlinlover

Probably just a tad because your pressure is quite low. But to prove it, which is easy to do, is to load 10 rounds with exactly 18.0, and 10 rounds with exactly 18.2.

Shoot 5 rounds with 18.0, and 5 rounds with 18.2, into a group for each. Pay attention to group size of each only, and not to relative placement of the two groups.

Now shoot 10 rounds of 18.0 and 18.2 together after mixing the cartridges randomly, and shoot them all into one group.

If all three groups are the same according to your accuracy criteria for any one group, then you know the answer to your real question.

felix


I love stiring up the master mind... [smilie=w:

[buck1]

I enjoyed that myself!!!...Buck

[BlueMoon]

There would be no problem of filling up a large pistol case with RL7, especially when using low power primers to keep the boolit intact for as long as possible. The granules should be small enough to let enough powder in the case to push the boolit fast enough. Other powders, like 680, have too much deterrent, or like N120, too big in granularity. It other words, it is worth a try or two using RL7. ... felix


This was a new concept for me. Not using RL-7 in a large pistol case but using a low power primer for lighting off. I had though you used a mag primer for longer ignition for slower powders. But I've seen similar data from different sources that used mag rifle primers for pistol powder loads and regular rifle primers for rifle powder loads for rifle calibers.

And I have no idea how to tell how much deterrent is on a powder unless you use enough of it to guess. I don't pay much attention to the single base or double based powder thing but can't help but notice ball vs extruded. I had always thought that more bulky powders might work better with cast bullets but I'm sure there are exceptions. Seems you think you understand one thing but only open up more questions about other things.

Bill

[fourarmed]

My experience with Re-7 in the .44-40 is that changing primers makes one hell of a difference - not only in velocity, but also in velocity spreads. With a rifle primer (I forget now which one) I got 1300 fps, very low spread, and tight groups (for this rifle). With the identical load except for a Federal pistol primer I got around 1150 with velocities all over the place and poor accuracy. This was with a case-filling load.

[felix]

Fourarmed, that was a great expose. It would be interesting to try each and every primer that will fit the case (and firing pin arrangement) with a chrono on hand. Good work. ... felix

[w30wcf]

fourarmed,

Interesting. My results have been just the opposite using the 427098 bullet (215 grs.) made from w.w. + 2% tin alloy.

Using a capacity load of 25 grs. RL7 in Winchester .44-40 cases, I tried 2 different pistol primers, the Remington 2 1/2's that Alliant used in their load testing and Federal 155's.

Both types gave fine accuracy, in fact they produced some of the best 5 shot groups I have ever made with my original '73 ( 1"to 1 1/2" @50 yards).

As I recall, velocity variance was minimal with the 155's giving the higher average velocity. I'll have to wait until I get home to look up the data so I will update this post at that time.

Sincerely,
w30wcf

[fourarmed]

Well, the Fed 155 is a magnum primer, after all. It was the 150 LP primer that gave erratic results in my '73 Winchester. Wide velocity spreads don't always result in poor groups - especially at shorter ranges. I think I will try that load again with the 155s. 1300 is just a little faster than I want for a regular load in the '73.

[nighthunter]

fourarmed .... there is quite a difference between rifle and pistol primers. Number 1 is that rifle primers are longer to fit a deeper primer pocket. Using a pistol primer in a rifle case could be the cause of the spreads. Try it again with Mag. rifle primers and see which way it goes.
Nighthunter

[w30wcf]

fourarmed,

Yes, the 155 is a large pistol magnum primer. As it turns out, at least in my testing, the very mild 2 1/2 Remington large pistol primer gave the least variance in velocity, but not by much. On average it was only 40 f.p.s. slower than the 155's.

Firearm: Winchester 1873 .44 W.C.F. circa 1882
barrel length: 21"
bullet: 427098 alloy: w.w + 2% tin weight: 215 grs.
powder type: RL7 charge weight 25.5 grs.

primer: 2 1/2 Remington average velocity: 1,218 f.p.s. variation: 28 f.p.s.
primer: 155 Federal average velocity: 1,258 f.p.s. variation: 31 f.p.s.

If the bullets you tested were 200 grs., then perhaps the combination of the heavier bullet weight & deeper seating depth gave more consistant results.

w30wcf

[fourarmed]

"If the bullets you tested were 200 grs., then perhaps the combination of the heavier bullet weight & deeper seating depth gave more consistant results."

That is the case...er, I mean boolit. Also, my rifle has a 24" bbl. and a tight neck (I size .430" to match the groove diam.), so there are several differences in parameters. My charge was a bit lighter than yours also. You mention "variance". Do you actually mean the square of the standard deviation, or are you using the term in place of "extreme spread"? If the latter, do you recall how many rounds were in the sample? Mine were for 5 shots.

It appears that the only hypothesis that covers both our results is that Re-7 in case-filling amounts in the .44-40 is quite primer sensitive.

[w30wcf]

fourarmed,

Extreme spread it is. Sorry about that. Mine were taken in 5 shot sequences as well. In all the different powders I've used in this gun including black powder, RL7 has produced the least amount of extreme spread with the 427098 bullet.

The groove diameter in my '73 is oversized @ .433" so I upset the bullet to .435" and shoot them at that diameter.

The 215/25.5/RL7/155 load in a friends 24" Model '92 Winchester clocked 1,367 f.p.s.

w30wcf

[drinks]

My 1910 '92 has a very tight chamber, cannot load with a bullet over .428, but the groove diameter is .4295, I really do not have very good results with anything, jacketed or cast.
As to primers, I have to check the cases for primer pocket depth, some Win. cases from the '70s are .128 deep, some Federal are .117, I just got some new Win. brass and the depth is .116.
Trying to put a lr in the new cases , I cannot get the case out of the shellholder on the Lee hand primer, without really squishing the primer with both thumbs on the lever, something I do not feel is a good practice, so I have measured all the cases and seperated them in lr and lp groups.
I have not had very good results with Reloder7 in the .44-40, IMR4227 and H110 have been much better performers, Reloder7 and IMR 4198 are very good in my .45-70, with IMR4227 doing the best job with my mouse gun load,a 220gr gc at 1800fps.
My hog whalloper is a 500gr gc at 1600fps using IMR4198.