Not Sure What I've Got?

[Bill Austin]

A friend of mine and I purchased 300 lbs of what we thought was Linotype. The material was in the form of single cast characters. Most of the characters were very small, perhaps 1/8-inch or thereabouts. There was ink residue on the type face of the characters. When I started smelting the type, I discovered the lead pot temperature needed to be increased significantly to get this material to melt. There was also a lot of black dross that was skimmed of the top of the pot after fluxing. I've used Linotype in the past, but this material was not acting like I thought it should. After smelting about 40 lbs, I decided to cast a few bullets with it to see how they turned out. I used a Lyman 429421 single cavity mold which I have used before with Lyman Number 2 bullet metal and the cast bullets weighed about 246 grains. However, when I cast some bullets with the "Linotype", the bullets only weighed 212 grains. The bullets looked fine, but they were as hard as a rock. Yes, I know that casting with Linotype will produce lighter bullets than casting with Lyman Number 2, but they should not be that much lighter. Some is wrong. Any ideas?

[NewbieDave007]

I'm not an expert, but it sounds a little like monotype. I'm not sure about the higher melting point, but you might want to look into that.

Good luck.
Dave

[rmark]

Individual letters are usually monotype, which is harder than linotype due to being reused.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Type_metal

[NewbieDave007]

Individual letters are usually monotype, which is harder than linotype due to being reused.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Type_metal

Even though you can't 100% believe Wikipedia, it does explain the melting point issue that I wasn't sure of because of the increased Antimony %. Now it really sounds like Monotype to me. Good score if it is.

[MaryB]

Might be foundry type. If there is a little round notch on the letter it is likely foundry type.

[Bill Austin]

I want to thank Dusty for the following information in a PM that has been a tremendous help:

"First, I suspect that you have some type metal. You might consider checking a lot of the posts in the lead and alloy threads and look particularly at the photos of the various kinds of scrap alloys we come across. Secondly you comment that you skimmed off the black dross. Well get out there and get that dross out of the trash because if you would have fluxed the melt, a lot of that would have gone back into the melt. Now just why there is such a big weight difference is still a mystery, but new casters might not realize that very hot alloys shrink more when they cool, so perhaps that means there was less metal in the mold to begin with. I don't know and neither do you if that could be what happened. Otherwise you would have mentioned the temps you were working with. Later, if no one has stepped forward to try to help, I will try to PM a couple of links to helpful information, once I figure out your skill level. It would also be a good idea to update your profile with a city and state in case some someone decided to offer to mentor you. Most folks think that they are the only one in their county that casts bullets, and most of them are wrong.

One final question, did the cast bullets have a purple tint to their surface?
Dusty"

"I know what you have and it is a higher antimony content than linotype. That is why you get a foamy fluff on top of the melt and think it should be skimmed off. I was casting purple bullets in the mid 70's and they would shatter into powder when they hit steel. You have some REALLY good stuff, so do not squander it. I belive you probably have either Stereotype ( 6-14-80)or Monotype ( 7/9-17/19-76/72). It has been listed both with the Strong numbers as well as the weak numbers.

I still have some of those loaded purple bulleted 38 special rounds to just remind me of a stupid mistake.

It was recommended that you increase the heat, and that would allow the antimony to go back into solution. Congratulations, most will blend that with WW at a rate of 4WW to 1 Stereo/mono. One way to find out which it is, would be by a hardness test. Stereo is supposed to be 23-25 BHN per Cast Bullet by E H Harrison-Handloader Mag #183 or 28 BHN from the same sources.

If you were so inclined, it would be a good idea to just cast some sample bullets in a mold like the 45 cal 200 RF or the .50-440-RF and let them age about 3 weeks and have them hardness tested. I use the larger bullet because it heats the mold quicker and makes consistant samples for my Cabine Tree hardness tester. I know it is correct at Lino hardness, but have never tested anything harder and have no certified sample to compare with.

It was hard to tell what skill level was in the OP, so excuse that error. I also would reconsider updating your profile. With a whole lot of monotype, you might find way too many new best friends for a while. Congratulations on your find. I still have some of that original bucket of mono, but I also put a lot of it in a landfill shooting at pests. Young and foolish, now just not so young. Dusty"

For the forum readers, I've been reloading since I was 14 years old (I'm 56 now), but I have only been casting bullets since about 1990. I do use a thermometer when casting. This "type" metal would not melt until I had the lead pot over 700 degrees F. The material smoked like hell, and the black dross was something that I had never seen before. The sample bullets that I cast, were done so at a temperature much higher (700 plus degrees) than I had ever cast bullets before. In 1991, I purchased 120 lbs of "linotype" from a print shop in San Jose, CA that had switched over to electronic type setting. That Linotype material cast great bullets and I did not have to add anything to the melt. I still have some 165 grain 30 caliber bullets that I cast out of that material. I fired a few two weeks ago and they shoot fine with no leading. Now that I know I have good metal, I am going to smelt the remainder down in my plumbers lead pot, then I will experiment with the mixing with lead to come up with my casting allow.

Regards to all,
Bill Austin

[Bill Austin]

Just one more question, addressed to Dusty or anyone who knows...why does this material (monotype) develop a purple tint? Is there anything a person can do to prevent ending up with purple bullets?

[Dusty Bannister]

It is my understanding that it has to do with the high antimony content. As I had mentioned, it was the most noticable feature I saw when I used the monotype for casting bullets. Of course, the type had been used, but I really doubt that after melting and fluxing, sufficient ink remained in the melt to color the bullets. I have also seen it mentioned in threads on this or other forums, so perhaps you can search and find those comments by others. Diluting the alloy will probably resolve the color issue.

[10-x]

Thanks Dusty, I'm Bill's friend that found the lead type at an antique store. I've been casting since the mid 70's and have never had any "lead" like this. The "dross" after melting and fluxing with paraffin was, well quite a lot based on WW's and other lead. Was wondering why so much "dross" and if it was tin or another metal, knew this type is old just by looking at the serif type and other floral and Eagle type styles. Bill and I looked at the lump of dross and decided to "hit it with" the acetylene torch to get the tin out to add to SOWW or other softer lead. Any and all help is greatly appreciated. Wife has been taking chemo and is starting radiation so my "shop time" is very limited. Thankfully things are getting better and the weather is cooling off.
Dave

[Dusty Bannister]

Once you have an alloy, you are not likely to get any one metal to seperate out. Perhaps some of the antimony can be removed since it is already saturated. That is probably what makes up much of the dross you removed earlier. I do not have any of my notes handy, so may not be entirely correct on that though. Dusty

[MikeyPooh]

Does it look like these two pics?

http://imageshack.us/a/img196/5899/vxay.jpg

http://imageshack.us/a/img23/6189/p962.jpg

If so, that's what the mono and foundry type I've had looks like melting. I kind of thought of it as self-fluxing. I just assumed the fluffyish dark grey stuff was years of accumulated dust/oil/grease/ink. However the alloy has a serious oatmeal phase, and if you scooped that out, then yeah you scooped out all the goodies. When I removed the dross it was light and fluffy.

And I have no idea about the purple color. Mine melted silvery and remained nice and shiny. However that was on an old campstove which probably has low btu's - I definitely had to cook it awhile. Maybe you're using too much heat and not enough time?

[Bzcraig]

You have seriously tainted metal of unknown origin that must be closely examined by a professional. Please ship to me immediately. I will examine and if safe will return 200 lbs.

[MaryB]

Foundry type left, monotype right

http://i226.photobucket.com/albums/dd248/maryalanab/2013-07-18_01-29-37_824_zpsba4918b9.jpg

[10-x]

MikeyPooh and Mary,
Thanks. The melt looks like the top pot until fluxing, then there is a large "lump" of oatmeal looking dross. I use Gulf wax but will try other fluxes.
Mary, I will check the type next time I'm in the shop unless Bill responds 1st. Dusty has given us an idea on the dross.
Thanks.
Dave

[Bill Austin]

What we have is mostly single characters, with the half-moon notch in the lower front edge of the type character. Based on the photos from MaryB, we have foundry type. I never would have guessed that we had foundry type.

I still am curious about the purple tint. Anyone know the technical details?

[RickinTN]

Wax won't "flux", and I've had the same issues with monotype. The oatmeal is "the good stuff". If you'll place about an inch of pine pet bedding on top of the mix and let it begin to smoke, then light it and stir it in you'll find that the oatmeal goes back into the mix and you'll skim off mostly charred pine shavings with almost none of the metal in it.
Rick

[10-x]

RickinTN,
Thanks. Have chain saw chips from pine that I'll add to the next smelt.