On the question of Ruger #1's. [Archive]

bigted

11-13-2013, 04:22 AM

my #1 in 45-70 does real well for me. with the rite smokless or blackpowder loads I can make 5 in 1 hole at 50 yds with the little 4X Leopold. I had an international #1 in 270 win and that rifle was tough to beat at any range. have had several others in 270 and 30-06 and I never had any trouble with any of them in the accuracy dept.

my stainless M-77 will shoot the 117 hornadays into 1 small hole at 100 in the 25-06. Rugers Rock and always have.

yours is lookin good and with a bit of fiddling im bettin you can improve on that as well. I have not done any cast in mine yet either but im bettin it would be perfect.

BruceB

11-13-2013, 07:28 AM

Hmmm.... my #1H in .416 Rigby will group the RCBS 416-350 inside one inch at 100 yards for TEN rounds, departing the muzzle at 2050 fps. (Talk about "one ragged hole"! It's a BIG one-ragged-hole, but still under one MOA.)

I do believe that's adequate. It will even put five rounds of PURE LEAD from the same mould in 1.5" from the 100-yard mark ... how would THAT do on elk or moose?

Yes, thanks, I DO like this rifle a whole bunch.

Tatume

11-13-2013, 11:39 AM

timspawn

11-13-2013, 03:22 PM

My #1 in 6.5 Swede will shoot into an inch with factory ammo at 100 yards. I just started working on handloads.

elk hunter

11-13-2013, 11:00 PM

Back when #1's sold for $300.00 retail I bought a new one in 243 Winchester thinking it would be a great long range coyote/chuck rifle. Every now and then it would get my hopes up by giving me 1" or so group, but would immediately go back to shooting "minute-of-coffee-cup". After many different loads, all the usual accurizing tricks, three different scopes and a couple of years of frustration it went in the safe where it still resides waiting for me rebarrel it, most likely in 416 Rigby. Since I already have a Rigby I've held off, thinking I might make it into a 22-250 or a Cheetah or something similar or perhaps a fence post.

375RUGER

11-13-2013, 11:34 PM

Usually the bad reviews come from those that have never owned one, hearsay.

EDG

11-14-2013, 02:05 AM

Au contraire
I had one that would not shoot 18" (eighteen inch) 5 shot groups.
I sent it back to Ruger and they installed a new barrel at no charge.

Usually the bad reviews come from those that have never owned one, hearsay.

Tatume

11-14-2013, 07:50 AM

Au contraire. I had one that would not shoot 18" (eighteen inch) 5 shot groups.
I sent it back to Ruger and they installed a new barrel at no charge.

That's the flip side of this coin. Ruger takes care of its customers. I have six No. 1 rifles and would buy another with confidence.

Clay M

11-14-2013, 12:20 PM

I have owned some that would shoot and some that wouldn't.I have found that the larger calibers seem to shoot really well most of the time.A lot goes in to your own technique and consistence from the bench.I have a .45/70 stainless that I just got.Does anyone have any favorite loads for the #1 in .45/70? I am trying to stay in the middle range as far as velocity. Not blackpowder velocities, but not magnum.

timspawn

11-14-2013, 12:29 PM

I found a load this morning that my #1 30/30 really seems to like. 7 grains of Unique with a 180 grain flat nose bullet. With the boolit loaded and crimped at the crimping groove it contacts the lands just slightly. I was only shooting at 30 yards but it was shooting into the size of a dime.

Tazman1602

11-14-2013, 12:46 PM

Clay M

11-14-2013, 12:50 PM

[QUOTE=Tazman1602;24

The only thing that makes me SICK about the #1 is that Ruger is going to discontinue it.............

Art[/QUOTE]

I don't think they are going to discontinue it.From what I understand they are making each model in one caliber ,each year.They have put the #1 on the back burner for now because Obama has sold so many Semi-auto tactical guns that they can't keep up with the demand.

Tazman1602

11-14-2013, 01:01 PM

Clay M

11-14-2013, 01:13 PM

Yup I know.........might as well be discontinuing it though. Man I love the old wood and blue steel rifles -- not that there's a darn thing wrong with EBR's (evil black rifles.....), I just think it's sad I've lived to see the end of an era.

Art

I agree with you.I bought a stainless #1 .45/70 because that is what my dealer had.It shines in the sun like a mirror.Will be a good all weather gun though.I have to say I am not into the black gun craze either.

JHeath

11-14-2013, 03:29 PM

Recently I fired some groups at 100 yards with my completely stock Ruger No. 1A in 7x57mm. They measured 1", 3/4", 1", 7/8" and (drum roll!) 1/4". I have to admit that the 1/4" group was only three shots; it looked so pretty I couldn't bring myself to mess it up with two more shots. These groups were fired from prone.

Complaints about Ruger No. 1 accuracy are usually based on "I heard from a fellow who heard from a fellow...."

Are those groups with a cold barrel?

I never owned a #1 but find them appealing. When I look into them, I see owners reporting needing to tune them, but the "success" stories sometimes mention that in addition to tuning the forearm hanger and the load, good groups required waiting for the barrel to cool several minutes between shots.

For me, a rifle that fires a 4" group with a warm barrel, but will put them in 1" with 5 minutes between shots, is still a 4" rifle. This for the simple reason that wounded animals still on their feet do not wait 5 minutes before heading into the thicket or over the ridge.

Clay M

11-14-2013, 03:38 PM

From what I can tell the #1 needs fore end tip pressure to shoot. They come from the factory with some fore end tip pressure.The triggers can also be on the heavy side even with the adjustments available. The really odd thing to me was finding that my new #1 .45/70 came from the factory with a fantastic trigger.
I never had a #1 that shot four inch groups,but I have had some that would not shoot consistent one inch groups.

375RUGER

11-14-2013, 04:21 PM

Au contraire
I had one that would not shoot 18" (eighteen inch) 5 shot groups.
I sent it back to Ruger and they installed a new barrel at no charge.
It was not a blanket statement about all bad reviews and I didn't say there were no bad ones.

Tatume

11-14-2013, 04:57 PM

Are those groups with a cold barrel? ... is still a 4" rifle. This for the simple reason that wounded animals still on their feet do not wait 5 minutes before heading into the thicket or over the ridge.

I wait one minute between shots when shooting groups. If I fire five shots in quick succession they will land together. If I fire 25 shots in quick succession the groups will grow larger as the barrel heats, and the barrel will get very hot. There is no issue with barrel heating while hunting. Anybody who needs more than five shots to kill an animal just needs to learn how to shoot.

Take care, Tom

Tatume

11-14-2013, 05:03 PM

I have owned some that would shoot and some that wouldn't.I have found that the larger calibers seem to shoot really well most of the time.

My No. 1V in 223 Remington will consistently shoot five shot groups at 100 yards that are less than 1/2 inch. It's not very picky about the load either! I have one very fast load with a 50 grain Sierra Blitz and another very slow load with a Sierra 40 grain Hornet bullet. I can shoot two groups, alternating shots with the two loads and 23 clicks of up or down, and produce two five-shot groups of less than 1/2 inch each. The load with the Hornet bullet is extremely quiet, and kills groundhogs in populated areas very well without disturbing the neighbors.

Tatume

11-14-2013, 05:15 PM

I own several #1's but my favorite is a .338 Winmag. About 15 years ago there was some controversy about the accuracy of the Farquharsen based action and that had to do with the way the forestock was bedded IF I remember correctly and there was a fix for it. Personally between .338, 30-06, and .243 I have never had these issues with the #1.

My experience exactly. Of the many I own and have owned, all shoot extremely well. The ones that don't shoot are the ones owned by someone who my friend heard about from his friend, who heard about it ... etc. I personally have never seen a No. 1 that would not shoot wonderfully. I believe they exist, and I also believe Ruger will fix them if asked.

About the fore end bedding, there are several stories. One has to do with the Hicks Accurizer. I have a Hicks Accurizer. It is worthless. Another has to do with various substitutes for the Hicks Accurizer, which are every bit as good as the Hicks itself. Yet another has to do with the quarter rib, and this one may have some validity. If the quarter rib is touching the receiver, it could conceivably cause stress in the barrel as the barrel heats and the pressure against the receiver increases. I've never seen it happen, but it doesn't hurt anything to stick a feeler gauge in there. If there aren't at least a few thousandths separation, it's very easy to remove the rib and file a tiny bit off.

chsparkman

11-14-2013, 05:17 PM

I have one in .270 that would vertically string as the barrel warmed up. Fixed the problem with a fore end pressure kit from Brownells. Shoots MOA now.

Clay M

11-14-2013, 07:45 PM

I have one in .204 Ruger that is very picky. No factory loads will shoot under 1 1/2" It likes one handload with one bullet.With that it can shoot under 1/2" sometimes.

**oneshot**

11-14-2013, 08:49 PM

My #1V 223 is a great shooting rifle.

Clay M

11-14-2013, 08:56 PM

A friend of mine had a #1A in .22 Hornet that was hard to get to shoot.He worked on it and finally got it to shoot OK,but not as good as My Browning Low Wall in .22 Hornet.My #1 in .405 win shoots great.The .45/70 seem to shoot good,but I really only sighted it in for hunting in close range brush. I haven't taken the time to try it a 100 yds yet.I just got through hunting with it this evening.

JHeath

11-14-2013, 11:23 PM

I wait one minute between shots when shooting groups. If I fire five shots in quick succession they will land together. If I fire 25 shots in quick succession the groups will grow larger as the barrel heats, and the barrel will get very hot. There is no issue with barrel heating while hunting. Anybody who needs more than five shots to kill an animal just needs to learn how to shoot.

Take care, Tom

Barrel heating is evidently an issue when hunting with certain No. 1s. if a rifle flings a quick second shot wild from the first shot because of heat. I am just going by what I read from a couple of different owners. They describe "success" with small groups but only if they wait long periods between shots.

Nobody gets 1-shot kills 100% of the time, and I am sure even Tom sometimes needs to fire a quick second shot.

If the grouping issue is vertical stringing, and the second shot is consistently 1/2" from the first shot, but the fifth shot is 4" from the first, it's a large group but not a hunting issue.

But it is a practice issue, and that may be as bad. It is discouraging to waste time trying to rapid-fire accurately from field positions with a rifle that makes it impossible to distinguish between shooting error and mechanical inaccuracy.

I want a falling-block rifle and the No. 1 is a strong action. But if I can make any Mauser or clone with a decent bore group better, for less money, in less time, the No. 1 is pretty hard to justify. And I consistently hear of people struggling to get certain No. 1s to group. The good box-stock ones are encouraging. The tune-up success stories are encouraging because I do not mind a little investment in the project. But the struggles that end up with the "success" requiring five minutes between shots are a turn-off.

Clay M

11-15-2013, 10:33 AM

I consider three shot groups a good test for a hunting rifle.I want my long range hunting rifles to shoot at least 1 MOA.I want ,my long range varmint rifles to shoot at least 1/2 MOA.
Big game woods rifles can be less as ranges rarely exceed 50yds.
The #1 is a beautiful rifle and I really like the action.I have shot enough of them between me and my friend to know it is a **** shoot whether you get a good one.If you are satisified with 1.5 to 2 MOA you are probably fine.

Tatume

11-15-2013, 11:14 AM

I have shot enough of them between me and my friend to know it is a **** shoot whether you get a good one.

I should move to Las Vegas. I buy Ruger No. 1 rifles often, I own many, and I have never personally seen one that wouldn't shoot MOA, out of the box.

If a rifle is used, it may have been tinkered with. It could be that people listen to rumors, "fix" rifles that aren't broken, ruin the accuracy, and then pawn off their shoddy workmanship on someone else. But I don't know.

rockrat

11-15-2013, 11:33 AM

My 1A 22 hornet would go under an inch all day long with a 40gr vmax. Sold it (too cheaply!!) but my 218 bee is just as accurate, so I am OK. Only one to not shoot well is a 338wm, but hardly worked with it much. I am partial to my 357max and 7.62 x 39 guns. Would love a stainless/walnut .357max and the same in a 300 blackout/327mag. Would really like a 500 S&W with a "C" weight barrel

Clay M

11-15-2013, 11:43 AM

I will say that Ruger has much better barrels now than they did prior to 95.My Hawkeye international will shoot 3/4" MOA

JHeath

11-15-2013, 03:13 PM

I should move to Las Vegas. I buy Ruger No. 1 rifles often, I own many, and I have never personally seen one that wouldn't shoot MOA, out of the box.

If a rifle is used, it may have been tinkered with. It could be that people listen to rumors, "fix" rifles that aren't broken, ruin the accuracy, and then pawn off their shoddy workmanship on someone else. But I don't know.

Where there is smoke, there is fire. A google search will return countless discussion of accuracy issues with No. 1 even by fans, and the discussion long preceded the internet. People are not making this up. Unless there has been a vast decades-long conspiracy by High Wall and bolt-action owners, it seems hard to deny the No. 1 is subject to difficult-to-pin-down variables from the forearm hanger, and the quarter-rib, and possibly some bad barrels that cannot be made to shoot well.

One credible bench-rest shooter says free-floating is the answer:
http://rvbprecision.com/shooting/accuracy-tips-for-the-ruger-1.html

Other credible (bench-rest) shooters can get 1/2 minute accuracy after tinkering with washers, rubber pads, and folded business cards:
http://benchrest.com/showthread.php?66624-Ruger-No-1

As one multiple-No. 1 owner at the above link said:
"It's really mind boggling when you Google it and see all the stuff that comes up. One guy likes the Hicks Accurizer and the next guy says it doesn't work. One guy isolates the forearm from the barrel and the next guy basically mounts the forearm on the barrel with no touching of the action. . . . I don't know."

Clay M

11-15-2013, 03:38 PM

They can be aggravating to say the least. I am just fixing to go hunting with my #1 .45/70 Love the gun,and I won't be shooting beyond 200ft so accuracy is not an issue. Minute of Whitetail...

chsparkman

11-15-2013, 06:43 PM

It was the Hicks Accurizer that worked for me.

atr

11-15-2013, 07:25 PM

my ruger #1 is very accurate with both J's and cast
see attached which is 10 shots at 50 yds

Clay M

11-15-2013, 07:37 PM

It was the Hicks Accurizer that worked for me.

The Hicks Accurate definitely made my .204 #1V shoot worse.
I found some old targets today. I was loading 24.5 gr of IMR 3031 and shooting a Berger 35gr flat base bullets. Five shot groups averaged 1/2 MOA for three groups. This is the only load I have found that will shoot really well in the gun.

Clay M

11-16-2013, 11:48 AM

I look forward to working with my .45/70 once the deer season is over.I like the bigger calibers in the #1 ...45/70,.405 win,.375H&H They are great guns for cast bullets.

nanuk

11-17-2013, 12:20 PM

I bought a Ruger1B in 270 back in 1987 or '88.
it was old stock and I got it for a very good price.
mounted a Loopy on it, in loopy rings made for the Ruger. Locked then with nail polish....

sighted it in for a 285yd zero with 150gr and have NOT changed anything since... and it still shoots minute of deer out to 325yds.
at the sillywet range, the 300m pigs are a 10/10 from the bench with a soft rest.

the best "Group" I get is irrelevant, but the worst is 1.5" for as many shots as I want to take, but I don't let it get hot.

I'm a hunter first, and as long as the gun puts the first two together within 1.5" of POA, I"m good to go.

and my Ruger has been doing that for 25 years.

oh, and I have yet to clean it. just wipe it down outside real well, run one dry patch through it if needs to get the dust out....

but as for copper/powder? never worried about it, as when I bought it the gunsmith said to make sure to clean it well when it stops shooting.... well, I'm still waiting for that day. As it has been my hunting rig for many years, I doubt I've put 1000 rounds through it.

bigted

11-18-2013, 04:02 PM

Nanuk ... the 270 winchester round is just magical in my opinion. I have owned a box car full of them and never had one shoot anything but GREAT! my fav load is 54 grains IMR 4831 behind a Hornaday 140 grain bullet runnin around 2800 FPS. this load has done everything I ever wanted/desired of it. my Rugers have all shot very well and same with the Winchesters and Remington's.

as to the #1's I have also had great luck with them and my current 45-70 is no different. it shoots tiny groups at whatever range I need it to in both smokless as well as blackpowder ... jacketed as well as cast. it just seems to devour anything I put thru it and hits most things I put the cross hairs on.

Tatume

11-22-2013, 04:34 PM

Today I took my 9.3x74R Ruger No. 1 Medium Sporter to the gun club. This gun has an XS Sights aperture rear sight with the threaded aperture and a Williams 0.125” insert, and an XS Sights blade front sight. It also has the prettiest wood of any production gun I’ve ever seen in my lifetime.

The load was my LBT LFN 270 grain gas check bullet with WC860 powder and Federal Large Rifle Magnum primers. As I have not used this combination before I had to sight in, which required five of the 20 rounds I had loaded. Another five went over the chronograph to establish the average velocity of 1433 fps with 11 fps extreme spread. The remaining 10 rounds were used to shoot two five shot groups at 50 yards, from prone. The groups measure 1/2” and 3/4”, which pleases me no end. My eyes are getting old enough that good iron sight groups are getting fewer and farther between.

As I was in a hurry, no time was allowed for cooling between shots.

I think I may take this gun and ammo hog hunting in North Carolina next summer. I have no doubt that the bullet will drop hogs at 100+ yards. Shots at ranges longer than that are very uncommon when hunting in the swamp.

timspawn

11-22-2013, 04:39 PM

Sounds like you have a winner..and in a very cool caliber!

Tatume

11-22-2013, 04:54 PM

The long neck of the cartridge appealed to me. I believe a long neck and multiple grease grooves make a good cast bullet combination.

There a place in South Central Florida called McDaniel's Ranch, about 20 miles north of I-75. I've hunted hogs there several times. Any good hog hunting where you are?

Take care, Tom

timspawn

11-22-2013, 05:07 PM

Plenty of good hog hunting around if you don't mind deep water and mosquitoes.

Old Coot

11-23-2013, 04:43 PM

I have an early Ruger no.1 in 2506 that I bought for my father in the long ago. The rifle shot beautiful groups for a long while and then they opened up. I cleaned the dickens out of it and groups have tightened up again. I'll fiddle with the fore end a bit to see if that helps, but what the heck the thing still shoots minute of Jack Rabbit out to ridiculous ranges.

I don't see why we need sub MOA groups to hunt big game. Very Few people can shoot MOA without a bench, and even fewer will carry a bench into the field. Face it practical game ranges are under 250 yds, yeah I know about the guys shooting game a lot further, but they usually measure the distance by eye and think that their whatchamacallit is almost a foot long. I've seen a lot of 300 plus yd shots that were really between 100 and 150 yds. I also don't recall very many No.!'s used in bench rest matches. I also know that most bolt guns won't shoot as good as a No1. I think that we are demanding unreasonable accuracy from a rifle just because it looks different. Brodie

Tatume

11-23-2013, 05:24 PM

Hi Brodie,

I agree with you on most of what you said. My personal belief is that long range shooting on game is boring. When I hunt I want to get up close and personal with the animal. That's hunting. The shots that I'm most proud of were taken at 25 yards or less! I'm reminded of a passage in the book written by John Taylor, in which he said it was a waste to give a fine sporting rifle to one of his guides. The guide will scorch the hide of any game animal he shoots, so what does he care about accuracy?

It's a rare sight indeed to see a falling block of any kind at a bench rest match, and I've never seen a Ruger No. 1 so employed. That's beside the point, which is, they are very accurate hunting rifles. People complain, but I don't believe the complaints. I've never personally seen a new No. 1 that wouldn't shoot MOA. I've seen some that were butchered and shot poorly, but I suspect they shot just fine before being "fixed."

Take care, Tom

nanuk

11-23-2013, 09:48 PM

Hah... I remember reading an article that quoted a PH and competitive shooter, and his opinion is, a 1.5" gun will win any competition, the weak link is the shooter.

Gunlaker

11-23-2013, 10:57 PM

Ruger #1's do show up in schuetzen bench rest matches. I have one in .32-40 that is very accurate, but it has a Ron Smith barrel. It's quite a bit better than either of the other #1's I've owned, but even the factory ones weren't too bad.

Chris.

Chuck_ls

12-08-2013, 02:15 PM

After reading this post I think I will fire up the lead pot and cast some bullets to try the Ruger #1 heavy barrel I acquired a year ago but have never shot. I have several molds to try, so I will cast a few .457-191, and .457-193, and will probably try some .458-405 and .458-300 molds I use for my .458. Thanks for the inspiration.

Chuck

Socal147

12-13-2013, 08:47 AM

I am looking at a Ruger 1 SS 45 70 online. Seems steep at $1150 but these rifles are not at all common. Thoughts would be appreciated.

Rifle was sold..... Thinking Shiloh now.

Tatume

12-13-2013, 11:58 AM

Personally, I like blue steel and walnut, but the stainless steel and laminated wood No. 1 rifles are nice too. They are certainly "bullet proof" hunting guns. You'll probably enjoy it.

Guy La Pourque

12-14-2013, 09:58 PM

Not to be a jerk, Geezer...but my old 25-06 No.1 would go 1/2" to 3/4" off the bench all day long. I bought it second hand for 500 bucks in 2001. Then I went dumpster diving in the bargain bin and got some Lee dies for $15.00! It's favourite load was those 85 grain Nosler ballistic tips sitting on 58 grains of IMR4350. People would see me shooting that beast and then dash out to the gun shop to buy one themselves. I probably sold more Ruger No. 1's than Bill Ruger did! :)

Get some good optics, seat those bullets out as far as they'll go and stay with the lighter bullets! Worked for me for years until I finally burned the throat out on it. I don't know how many pounds of gun powder went down that rifle's gullet but I was sure sad when the velocities fell off and the accuracy opened up. Good luck and have fun!