Powder dispenser/scale combos used for black?

[Ringer]

Hi,
I recently talked with a BPCR shooter who has been using one of the RCBS-Lyman type units to measure all his BPCR loads. It kind of surprised me to hear of this, but the fellow said he has been using one for over two years.
I am curious to know if anyone knows of other shooters who are using these electronic type units, and their comments.
Thanks,
Ringer

[Bent Ramrod]

The Shiloh forum has a lot of data on the use of the Chargemaster and its competitors for black powder. The manufacturers' liability lawyers don't allow the companies to recommend them for black powder, but nobody has reported problems so far. There are instructions on the Shiloh site on how to reprogram the trickler so it operates fast enough for the dispensing of the large charges that the black powder cartridges use.

I haven't tried it in mine yet. So far, a powder measure seems to work fine.

[bigted]

I use both the drum type powder measure and the electronic measure from Lyman. the 1200 does fine for me and I cant recon that there would ever be anything to deter me from using either. bunch of bunk as far as im concerned. use what ya got with no worry's.

powder comes in plastic
primers come in plastic
shells are stored in plastic
Lee dippers are plastic
the funnels are all plastic
the trey on my primer charger is plastic as well as the innards

so what would a powder scale of any kind do that any of these wont do?

as Ramrod says ... jest a lawyer thing to CYOA

[Lead Fred]

Holy black is measured by volume not weight.

Ive always used a glass test tube measured by volume to 100 grains.

I would never use a scale, you will end up with less powder.

[Nobade]

Holy black is measured by volume not weight.

Ive always used a glass test tube measured by volume to 100 grains.

I would never use a scale, you will end up with less powder.

So, how come when I set my Belding & Mull powder measure so it is throwing a certain weight of powder with one brand and I switch to another brand the charge weighs less and the velocity is lower? It is the same volume. But if I adjust the measure so it throws a larger volume, which weighs the same as the original powder charge, the velocity is the same?

-Nobade

[Don McDowell]

Holy black is measured by volume not weight.

Ive always used a glass test tube measured by volume to 100 grains.

I would never use a scale, you will end up with less powder.

No blackpowder is thrown by weight, it's the substitutes that are measured in volumes... Check out the 1876 sharps catalog where they tell you how to use a set of apothecary scales and give the conversion from apothecaries to grains, to measure the powder charges... Also check out Remingtons 1875 catalog where the demonstrate the affect of 2 grs of powder difference on bullet impact at long range...

[CanoeRoller]

Don is dead on with that, you load BP cartridges by volume, weight is a by product of trying to match your volume each load.

[Huvius]

That is what I always went with simply because if you weigh your black, you WILL see differing volumes of different powders and brands.
The problem with this is that you would be forced to change your wad column composition to seat your boolit where you want and it and you are starting all over again...

[Kenny Wasserburger]

I use a RCBS 1500 Chargemaster, with the program changes to speed it up.

Gee,,,,,,,,,,,,,,, 2 BPCR Creedmoor Scope National Championships, 3 Winternational Regional Championships, several world-national Records. Shooot I must be doing someting WRONG??

Kenny Wasserburger

[Don McDowell]

Going from just using the volume measure to the electronic dispensing unit brought groups sizes and velocity spreads down considerable.
Yeh changing brands of powder requires new load work up, because blackpowder is as different as can be from one batch to the other. That's why most shooters that shoot into the top ends of the various competitions find their powder and load, and then buy as much of that same lot of powder as they can.
They even talk about that in the days gone by and recommended some brands/types of powder not be compressed etc....
We're not doing anything new here, we are simply trying to catch up to what most teenagers in the 1800's already knew about reloading cartridges..

[Doc Highwall]

You can use either weight or volume to measure the powder. If the powder has a certain density it will occupy a certain volume laws of physics. Mass divided by volume = density.

Question what weighs more a pound of feathers or a pound of butter?

[Don McDowell]

You might want to take a case and scoop it full of 3f, weigh it and repeat with 2 and 1f, and then get back with the theory thing...

[montana_charlie]

Holy black is measured by volume not weight.

Ive always used a glass test tube measured by volume to 100 grains.

I would never use a scale, you will end up with less powder.
Is your glass tube marked in grains, or something like milliliters?

Powder charges are expressed in 'grains'.
The grain is a unit of weight, not volume.
The 'volumetric' measuring device (as carried in a possibles bag) is sized to throw a volume of powder that corresponds to a given weight ... in grains.

When you set up your (say) Redding powder measure to throw (say) 64 grains of IMR 4831, you are adjusting the volume of the chamber. What you get out is a 'volume', every time. But, it is a volume that weighs a desired number of grains.

So, it could be said that ALL propellants are measured by volume. But, all except black powder substitutes are expressed by weight.

CM

[Huvius]

Many original Brit rifles are marked with the regulation powder charge in drams.
There are weight drams and fluid drams.
H&H regulated their 450 3-1/4" for a charge of 4 drams which converts to 109.4 grains by weight.
No ammo manufacturer made 450 with a 109gr charge back then.
Were they meaning fluid drams (8drams/fl.oz)? That would be half an oz. Is this close to the 120gr quoted standard for the 450 bpe?

[Don McDowell]

Drams are interesting and can really confuse the snot out of things. My neighbor is dipping charges of Goex Cartridge for his 50-90 using one of the adjustable shotgun measures. He settled on 3/14 drams as being the right amount of powder to compress for the bullets he has... turns out that 3 1/4 drams weighs out 89 grs, and I believe the conversion tables show it should be 100 grs?.

[Huvius]

Funny... I weighed a charge of 80grs from my 450/400 2-3/8" original and it weighed 79grs. I guess there could be some loss of fine granules from compression.
80 grs of O.E. 1.5F in my brass measurer weighed exactly 80grs!

[Don McDowell]

Sometime back I did a volume/weight comparison on a few powders. Measure was set at 70 grs.
2f express 69.6
kik 2f 68.8
cartridge 66.4
goex 2f 67.6
kik 1.5 68
Olde E 1.5 64.2
OE 2 68.7

[XTR]

I use a RCBS 1500 Chargemaster, with the program changes to speed it up.

Gee,,,,,,,,,,,,,,, 2 BPCR Creedmoor Scope National Championships, 3 Winternational Regional Championships, several world-national Records. Shooot I must be doing someting WRONG??

Kenny Wasserburger

You are not the first guy with a winning resume that has said something like that.

I use my Chargemaster