Re-thinking a smelter

[Ken O]

The smelter I made out of a dollar store stockpot gave up on me today. I had about 80 pounds of WW in it. It was sitting on top of a turkey fryer, I was pouring ingots and heard a gurgling sound. The fire went out and my smelting came to an end. The bottom had lots of cracks and the lead was running out. It was only two years old. I tried to pactch it up welding, but it was like welding a beer can.
I need to find a thicker stock pot and start all over, maybe the turkey fryer pot, I never did do a turkey in it.

[Morgan Astorbilt]

Was it aluminum? You might want to try cast iron.
Morgan

[MT Gianni]

The turkey pot will be Aluminum. Get a cheap dutch oven. Gianni

[Dale53]

I second that cheap CAST IRON Dutch Oven. Never, never use aluminum for a lead pot. NEVER!! as in NEVER!!

Dale53

[Ghugly]

You didn't say, so I'm guessing that you're okay:drinks:. That's the important thing, the rest of it is just stuff. I'm pretty happy with the pot I made by cutting the top off from an old propane tank and welding some handles on it. The cast iron dutch ovens seem to win the popularity contest. And it seems, tho most are a little shy about mentioning it [smilie=1:, that aluminum is not a good idea.

[Ken O]

The Dollar store stock pot was made of Stainless steel. It did last a couple years, and about a ton of WW though it, it cost $7 so I guess I'm not out much. I want to find something about the same size, this one held a hundred pounds of WW real easy. I don't see anything around in cast iron that size, maybe a higher quality stock pot, like an enamalled one from Wally world.

[imashooter2]

Holds 100 pounds with room left for stirring and skimming.

http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/displayitem.taf?Itemnumber=44705

[floodgate]

Ken O:

There was some discussion of melting pots made of aluminum, cast iron, stainless etc., a couple of years back, and I seem to recall some mention of stainless steel pots suddenly giving up under heavy loads of melted alloy, after a lot of use. Anyone else remember this?

floodgate

[jballs918]

ken i roll with teh 12" iron from habor freight, best 12 busks or so i will ever spend you cant go worng

[powderburnerr]

I had a big (30) quart ss stock pot and after about 8 years af almost constant use it gave up by cracking on the bottom I would run 2 ,5 gal buckets through it at a tome and when full to the handles it held 300 # .. I miss the size and am still looking for a replacement . it was a commercial pot , not a wally world special , ..Dean

[creekwalker]

Good posts on the stainless steel pots, I've seen them break down too and don't like them. the suggestion for the cast iron pot is right on the money, but I really liked reading about the cut down propane tank, I might like to try that one myself.

creekwalker

[imashooter2]

Good posts on the stainless steel pots, I've seen them break down too and don't like them. the suggestion for the cast iron pot is right on the money, but I really liked reading about the cut down propane tank, I might like to try that one myself.

creekwalker

Propane tanks are very dangerous and just being empty does not make them safe to cut. Do your research first.

[Dale53]

I always recommend cast iron pots (they work well and are readily available at favorable prices). However, my real preference is a thick walled built up steel pot (from a section of well pipe for instance). That's what I have been using for some time. I have a welder friend who was very accommodating. It is 80 lb capacity with about a 60 lb working capacity. That is big enough for an old feeble guy like me. I can easily do 120 lbs in half to three quarters of an hour and that is just fine by me. The equipment is light weight (turkey cooker base) and with my bad back that is a plus.

I truly admire some of the more ambitious set ups but moderate is the way for me.

Dale53

[creekwalker]

"Propane tanks are very dangerous and just being empty does not make them safe to cut. Do your research first."


Thanks for the safety prompt, knew that one already, in addition to other duties I'm a certified HazMat Tech, so I've seen enough "screw up's" to give me a healthy respect for propane gas. Rest assured should I cut such a tank down it will be completly researched prio to anything being done.

creekwalker

[MT Gianni]

"Propane tanks are very dangerous and just being empty does not make them safe to cut. Do your research first."


Thanks for the safety prompt, knew that one already, in addition to other duties I'm a certified HazMat Tech, so I've seen enough "screw up's" to give me a healthy respect for propane gas. Rest assured should I cut such a tank down it will be completly researched prio to anything being done.

creekwalker

Filling them full of water is done after the valve has been off and the tank upside down for a week or more. I prefer to cut anything that has had a combustible in it when it is full of car exhaust to eliminate any oxygen. Gianni

[mtgrs737]

I recomend a cast iron dutch oven from Harbor Freight or one of the big box sporting goods stores. However if you have access to a R22 freon tank for free form an air conditioning service place....

Using a car exhaust or filling it with water is an old welders trick that works well.

[Hackleback]

I picked up an old freon tank and cut the top off. They are made of some very light material and I do not feel comfoatable filling one with liquid lead. I would not recomend using these tanks as a smelting vessel.

[Morgan Astorbilt]

Cutting tanks of any kind with an oxy-acetylene torch can be a problem. I remember when I was into biking, there was an article in a magazine, where a guy found a bike tank out on the desert, where it had been laying empty for years, and when doing some welding or cutting, it blew up. The article went on to say it was from residual gasoline in the steel... BS!!!
When using a cutting torch, the preheated steel is burned with pure oxygen coming from the orifice surrounded by the preheating orifices (flames). If any acetylene gets into the tank, when it get to a about a 6-1 oxy-acetylene mix, it will explode.
I say about, because I know that a 7-1 air-gas mix is explosive. I used to do a demonstration of this with an empty 1 pint paint can. I'd:
1- Punch a hole in the top and side near the bottom with a nail.
2- Fill the can with gas (gas, not gasoline) and close the lid.
3- Light the gas coming out of the hole in the top(it will burn like a candle)
4- Watch as the air coming in through the bottom hole reached the 7-1 mix, and the top blew off.:-D

Try this, it's a lot of fun, and will explain why tanks blow up when being torch-cut. :(
Better to use a plasma cutter.
Morgan

[creekwalker]

Morgan A...

I've got to say that your above post made me grin because I've read of and seen the same thing. You are absoluty correct in pointing out the acetylene gas problem potential. Acetylene can and will reach a critical pressuer when filling the tank to, which is why the person handling it need's to know what they're doing. I'm just beginning to learn to use welding equipment and with things I've seen happen I'm very, very cautious.[smilie=1:

creekwalker:coffee:

[Dale53]

I raced motorcycles for about ten years. It still nearly boggles the mind to reflect on my watching experienced welders fill a gas tank (trackside) with gasoline and then weld the tank to stop a leak (repair a crack). With the tank full (of gasoline) and no oxygen, they were able to weld the tank perfectly. Gave me the willies, though:mrgreen:.

Dale53

[Morgan Astorbilt]

Morgan A...

I've got to say that your above post made me grin because I've read of and seen the same thing. You are absoluty correct in pointing out the acetylene gas problem potential. Acetylene can and will reach a critical pressuer when filling the tank to, which is why the person handling it need's to know what they're doing. I'm just beginning to learn to use welding equipment and with things I've seen happen I'm very, very cautious.[smilie=1:

creekwalker:coffee:

I think the critical pressure is 15psi. This is for free acetylene, such as was produced by the now outlawed, acetylene generators , the ones shaped like a bell, with calcium carbide held up inside, in a canister, and the bell floating in a tank of water. The hose to the torch came right off the bell, and the pressure was regulated by its weight.

Acetylene in tanks is a whole different animal. The tank is filled with an absorbent material. This is saturated with acetone, which has the ability to hold many times its weight in acetylene. The pressure can be raised, with no fear of explosions, much like dynamite is nitro-glycerin absorbed in a filler, so that it's not shock sensitive.

To the fellow that watched them weld a tank full of gasoline, I think it must have been water, and they were pulling your leg.:)

Morgan
s

[Ken O]

I want something deeper than the dutch oven, and I also want to valve it which I did with the stock pot. I used Kenjudos valveing idea as on the sticky "one man smelter" at the top of this foum area, I have a pic of mine there. The bottom pour makes it easy to pour ingots and keep the crap out.
Maybe I will make something up, I like the well pipe idea. I have a 14" pipe cap, but its 3/4" thick and would take forever to heat. A heavier stock pot would be real nice.

[shooter575]

"Propane tanks are very dangerous and just being empty does not make them safe to cut. Do your research first."


Thanks for the safety prompt, knew that one already, in addition to other duties I'm a certified HazMat Tech, so I've seen enough "screw up's" to give me a healthy respect for propane gas. Rest assured should I cut such a tank down it will be completly researched prio to anything being done.

creekwalker

I cut mine off with a 4" cut off disc.The tank was full of water at the time.Stunk bad but safe.
I am real happy with the one I made.

[hunter64]

shooter575: I am also thinking of making one out of an old propane tank, do you have any pictures of the one you did?

[deltaenterprizes]

Cast Iron is best

[Salmon-boy]

Ok, I've cut up many a propane tank.. Still have all my fingers and toes. Pull the valve, Fill it with water, empty it out and cut with an abrasive blade. There'll bound to be some sludge that might light up with the sparking, but it will no go boom.

If you're going to be melting that much, go with the propane tank instead of the freon, it's much heavier guage steel and will last longer.

[Dale53]

In my personal experience, the Freon tank is ENTIRELY too thin for such serious work as smelting.

Propane tanks also scare me. Many an "empty" tank has blown up when cutting. If any of you, needing a smelting pot, want to use a fabricated pot, a very nice pot can be welded up from large steel pipe. That is what I use. If I didn't have a welder friend, then I would get a cast iron dutch oven.

Dale53

[MT Gianni]

One of our pipelines with a 1000 psig on it is 0.188 wall. I have worked fittings on it with out being overly concerned with it's narrow walls. The difference betweeen it and a freon tank is not the hoop stress which helps to hold pressure in a round vessel but the fact that whatever you smelt in will be heated at different rates and at high temperatures. I think that you are setting yourself up to fail if you use anythng other than cast iron or steel. Please do like Dale says, it may work for a while with a freon tank but it will fail and alloy will go everywhere. You then have a clean up and lost lead. Todays prices for a dutch oven make that seem silly. Gianni

[Sundogg1911]

I use a harbor freight cast iron dutch oven with a turkey fryer as well. Although I did weld some angle iron to the turkey fryer for the added weight. I don't think I was really needed, but it cant really be too strong.

[hydraulic]

I had a Mobil station and bulk plant back in the '70's and '80's, and the tanks were 10,000 gallon steel tanks above ground. I noticed a wet spot on the side of the gasoline tank, one day so called a supplier and they said they could weld it. The welder called me back and said to make sure the tank was full of gasoline before he got there. I thought he was kidding, but he came out, crawled up on the tank to make sure it was full and went down and welded the leak shut. I don't know how he did it because I closed up the place and waited down the road a half mile. He said the only time he had trouble was when he didn't check a tank and it wasn't full. It blew out on the seam opposite of him and he didn't get hurt.

[MT Gianni]

I had a Mobil station and bulk plant back in the '70's and '80's, and the tanks were 10,000 gallon steel tanks above ground. I noticed a wet spot on the side of the gasoline tank, one day so called a supplier and they said they could weld it. The welder called me back and said to make sure the tank was full of gasoline before he got there. I thought he was kidding, but he came out, crawled up on the tank to make sure it was full and went down and welded the leak shut. I don't know how he did it because I closed up the place and waited down the road a half mile. He said the only time he had trouble was when he didn't check a tank and it wasn't full. It blew out on the seam opposite of him and he didn't get hurt.

The theory is that gasoline will not burn just the vapors. No vapor=no combustion. I have no need to put it into practice. Gianni

[shooter575]

shooter575: I am also thinking of making one out of an old propane tank, do you have any pictures of the one you did?


Sorry for the long time to reply.I do loose my place on some of these post
[crs] Here is a couple pics I have posted here before.


http://img.photobucket.com/albums/1003/shooter575/MVC-009F-1.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/1003/shooter575/MVC-010F-1.jpg

[Salmon-boy]

Shooter, I'm in the same boat as you at getting lost. Can't even use GPS 'cause I don't know where I'm going 1/2 the time... :-)

That's a really nice setup you've got. Looks like it is very efficient on heat conservation. How much can you/do you melt at one time?

[spurgon]

Dutch Oven,
Spurgon